Childrens rights

abhabhan

Hi guys , im new here , just wanted to know your opinion on childrens rights in ireland , basiclly i was told that if i dont present my 6yr old son to his father then i can be taken to court and fined for breech of court order , there (was) an access order in place , is it right to drag a child kicking and screaming and bundle him into a car with his father when he doesnt want to go , apparently ive no choice and i must do this ... anybody in the same boat ?

CrazyRabbit

Why does the child not want to go to his father?

If the child is terrified, then I would try to find out why. There might be a serious issue.
If it's because the child has a negative opinion about his father due to yourself, then I suggest that only you can change this.

Otherwise, get a pyschologist report that shows that your son is seriously against contact with his father, then present this to the judge when you are taken to court. Law or no law, I wouldn't force my child to go spend time with a parent when they have strongly shown their objection to it. It would harm the child and as a parent, I couldn't allow it.

Fittle

Your child (unfortunately) has no rights in this instance, and you do have to adhere to the court order.

Mods, as this OP is new here,could I respectfully ask you not to allow this thread to go down the fathers rights route which would almost certainly discourage the OP from coming back to this section.

I have often asked this question myself abhabhan, children have no rights in this instance as the court ordered access/agreement over-rides them. However, if the child is so traumatised, I would suggest talking to a professional about helping him/her to adjust to the situation. Or go back to court and explain the situation to a judge, in the hope that access can be arranged in a way that the child feels comfortable and secure.

metrovelvet

Children have no rights. Only parents do.

Justask

abhabhan wrote: »

Hi guys , im new here , just wanted to know your opinion on childrens rights in ireland , basiclly i was told that if i dont present my 6yr old son to his father then i can be taken to court and fined for breech of court order , there (was) an access order in place , is it right to drag a child kicking and screaming and bundle him into a car with his father when he doesnt want to go , apparently ive no choice and i must do this ... anybody in the same boat ?

If it was my 6 year old I would be very very concerned as to why my son was acting like this... what does he say when you ask him why he doesnt want to go with his dad?
has his dad seen this?
I dont think a child has got rights so to speak in a case like this. I may be wrong

Fittle

There is, of course, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child which really isn't worth the paper it was written on. So in theory, children have certain rights.

However, judges/social workers etc are still human and can assess a case like this on its merits. While I doubt very much that a judge would ensure that a child doesn't see the father (unless of course, the child is obviously at risk), one would hope that the childs emotional welfare would be taken into consideration.

You need to speak to a professional about this though OP - a child psychologist, or similar - to get to the root of why the child is so traumatised when going to its fathers house.

Morag

Why can't you have the other parent come pick the child up?

Fittle

Sharrow wrote: »

Why can't you have the other parent come pick the child up?

Can I ask why you think that might be the solution?

smelltheglove

I would sit down and talk to your child and try to get to the root of the problem. It could be something simple like when he goes to his dads maybe his dad goes out for a while and leaves him with grandparents or something.

I know when my little one was about 4 we went through this and I figured out after a while it was more when his parents came to collect her rather than her dad. I spoke to her about it and she said she didnt like going out to their house when her daddy wasnt there, she just wanted to see her daddy or be at home. Next time I saw her daddy I said it to him and explained that she was just kicking off because she missed him and wanted to spend time with him, it was nothing against his family or their treatment of her basically just that she only wanted her daddy or to be home with myself and my husband.

Often with young children they find it hard to explain what it is that is upsetting them so rather than trying they just kick off. Hopefully it is just as simple as that. In the 4 or 5 yrs since that happened with us we have never had another issue of the little one crying going to her dads, the odd time a grandparent will collect her but the majority of the time she is there her daddy is there too and so she doesnt mind, I guess she just wanted to feel a bit more wanted really.

abhabhan

My son doesnt like going to his dads because the new lady in his life tells my son that she'd love to kill me and when im dead she"ll be his new mom ! This new lady is what you would call a scumbag and his father doesnt have a say as she wears the pants and drives the car that used collect him , thanks guys , he has cancelled his access order and now me and my son are free of him , shows what sort of a dad he really is ......:mad:

Fittle

abhabhan wrote: »

My son doesnt like going to his dads because the new lady in his life tells my son that she'd love to kill me and when im dead she"ll be his new mom ! This new lady is what you would call a scumbag and his father doesnt have a say as she wears the pants and drives the car that used collect him , thanks guys , he has cancelled his access order and now me and my son are free of him , shows what sort of a dad he really is ......:mad:

He has cancelled his access order between 3o clock yesterday and today? How did he do that? He would have to bring you back to court to do that OP - he can't just say 'it's cancelled'. You could still be brought back to court if you don't ensure you act in accordance with the access order.

metrovelvet

abhabhan wrote: »

My son doesnt like going to his dads because the new lady in his life tells my son that she'd love to kill me and when im dead she"ll be his new mom ! This new lady is what you would call a scumbag and his father doesnt have a say as she wears the pants and drives the car that used collect him , thanks guys , he has cancelled his access order and now me and my son are free of him , shows what sort of a dad he really is ......:mad:

Do you have it in writing that he cancelled the access orders? I think you need to take the access order down to the guards, tell them he has said he is going to cancel but he might show up for all you know but in case he doesn't you need a witness at the house to put on record that he has not shown up. Otherrise he can show up and you might be out of the house or something and he can turn around and say YOU broke the access order and haul you into court for breach.

abhabhan

thanks guys , just wanted your opinion

amiable

Hi OP, do you do any stuff like play football or fix cars with your son?

boAds_user

Fittle wrote: »

He has cancelled his access order between 3o clock yesterday and today? How did he do that? He would have to bring you back to court to do that OP - he can't just say 'it's cancelled'. You could still be brought back to court if you don't ensure you act in accordance with the access order.

Very good point, it my understanding that it is a criminal offense to breach any court order, in which case it would be my view that the Garda should be notified by 'reporting an incident' and 'making a statement' this I am lead to believe would require the Garda to investigate if the believe a crime occurred and would be on the PULSE system.



As for the matter of 'cancelling' a Court Order. This is purely guesswork but I would be of the opinion this would have to be done at the same Court with perhaps a 'motion to set aside' or 'strike out' or even to 'vary the order' that seek leave of the Court to set aside the order. I hope someone can clarify this with their opinion. (Would it be the father who would have to initiate this if he was the applicant?)

Also a Judge's Order is not to be messed with, Judge will likely not be best pleased that his Order was just ignored. An in fact Access Orders made under Section 11 of the Guardianship of Infants Act are made because the welfare of the infant requires the order to be made. So breaching order could be see and acting against the childs best intrests, not to mention the messing about the parents might do going to Garda for pulse numbers,etc.

boAds_user

abhabhan wrote: »

My son doesnt like going to his dads because the new lady in his life tells my son that she'd love to kill me and when im dead she"ll be his new mom ! This new lady is what you would call a scumbag and his father doesnt have a say as she wears the pants and drives the car that used collect him , thanks guys , he has canceled his access order and now me and my son are free of him , shows what sort of a dad he really is ......:mad:

That's "Hearsay" or do you have proof of the "threat's to kill"?? If so go to the Garda and report it if you are in fear. (not pretend now...).

(BTW. In my view a "lady" does not refer to another lady as a "scumbag" on public forums....;))

She can never be his MOM, you will always be his MOTHER... Fact and I believe this is protected under both the Constitution and Legislation.. Family Law will always side with the mother and grant her wishes unless there are exception nasties.


Were you interfering in access, or being awkward?(Scummy Mummy) Or does the father genuinely not want to see his son? (Feckless Father)..


Both parents NEED to set aside their personal battles (at least around the kid... go all out nuclear war other times). Bigger risk would be if the messing around carries on and the HSE get involved.... Not good for anyone.....


my opinion

boAds_user

Fittle wrote: »

There is, of course, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child which really isn't worth the paper it was written on. So in theory, children have certain rights.

However, judges/social workers etc are still human and can assess a case like this on its merits. While I doubt very much that a judge would ensure that a child doesn't see the father (unless of course, the child is obviously at risk), one would hope that the childs emotional welfare would be taken into consideration.

You need to speak to a professional about this though OP - a child psychologist, or similar - to get to the root of why the child is so traumatised when going to its fathers house.

Why does UNCRC not have any worth?

Why would a child be traumatised going to see its father?
-The mother making things difficult - YES, then STOP
-Father being an idiot and messing around also, most men would tend not to play those games, but either clear off and leave their kid, feckless fathers tend not to go for court ordered access just to mess about for a bit of fun.

NO do not involve HSE or other "professionals" unless its a serious matter, and even then....

Fittle

boAds_user wrote: »

Why does UNCRC not have any worth?

...

Because it's not legislation - it's more a recommendation. You can't sue someone because they don't adhere to something written in the UN convention on the rights of the child.


'Why would a child be traumatised going to see its father?
-The mother making things difficult - YES, then STOP
-Father being an idiot and messing around also, most men would tend not to play those games, but either clear off and leave their kid, feckless fathers tend not to go for court ordered access just to mess about for a bit of fun.'

There are many reasons why a child could be traumatised going to see its father (or absent parent, if it was the mother). The child obviously has not got a good relationship with the absent parent (in this case), there could be abuse. Why the block capitals to insist the mother stops making things difficult?
Have you thought that the child doesn't want to go to the father because it's the father is making things difficult (for the child)?

smelltheglove

OP if it is true that the daddies new girlfriend says those things then that is emotional abuse towards the child. If I was in your position I would get some legal advice be it private or through legal aid. The father saying he does not want to see his son is neither here nor there, there is an order and if he changes his mind next week then you still have to adhere to it, do it the right way, the legal way and cover your own backside.

If your sons father still wants to see him you could enquire about a protection order or whatever they recommend in order to keep the new girlfriend away from your son but in order for these routes you will most likely be referred to a child psycholgist or similar to speak to your son and get as much info out of him as possible, again this is to cover yourself but also to benefit your son, this treatment is obviously having a negative affect on him so I would recommend it myself.

As a side note, my perception of the OP has not been lowered necause she called the girlfriend a scumbag, if these accusations are true there is no better word, it does not make the OP any less of a person or a lady, just honest in her opinions.