redeployment-croke park deal

rainbowtrout

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

Not everyone with a CID or permanent contract went through the same thing.
I know all that re: mat leaves and covering career breaks, you are covering a need for a limited time.
Not once did I say I expected anything else to come of it.

My point is that it's not an even playing field out there and when you bring the primary sector into it and how many permanent primary positions were given out to 21 year old graduates during the celtic tiger after 3 years in Pats or Marys compared to the 5 years plus a lot secondary teachers have put in in third level, it exacerbates the problem further.

I know full well I need to get my own hours, but bills need to be paid and I take "seasonal rush" work to pay them.

I don't see what primary school teaching positions have got to do with secondary teaching positions??? It's a completely separate system for all intents and purposes. You have full teachers or no teachers. A primary school class doesn't have part time hours. If the school loses a teacher, classes get merged (in small rural schools).

Secondary is a whole different ball game.

This sounds like the arguments that arise frequently on AH. 'Teachers have loads of holidays and work hardly any hours '... 'Well if you think they've got it that easy, why don't you go and become a teacher, there's nothing stopping you'

Why do you begrudge a primary school graduate a permanent teaching job because it was available and they were straight out of college? I could just as easily say 'if you wanted a permanent job straight out of college why didn't you do primary teaching instead???'

It brings it to a whole new level if secondary teachers are begrudging primary teachers their 'permanent' jobs. Actually it disgusts me that you would look down on primary school graduates for doing a three year teaching degree instead of 5years+ for secondary. Do you think you are better than them because you might have spent more time in college than them? Many of those primary teachers have other qualifications other than their degree AND if they only have their degree in primary teaching why shouldn't they be employed as primary teachers? They are qualified.

For what it's worth I did a four year secondary teaching degree, I see myself as no more or less qualified than those who did the three years in Mary I.... and I got a permanent job straight out of college at the age of 22 - not a common occurrence at second level. Should I have refused my job 10 years ago and said 'Surely you can find an RPT teacher knocking about better qualified than me for the job? I'm only straight out of college, what would I know?'

Premier Girl

Just for clarity.. Is this cross sectors. I am in a community school on an RPT so should I be worried about another type of school doem the road over quota?

Also my school are two teachers over quota and not on that `official` list!

rainbowtrout

Premier Girl wrote: »

Just for clarity.. Is this cross sectors. I am in a community school on an RPT so should I be worried about another type of school doem the road over quota?

Also my school are two teachers over quota and not on that `official` list!

Redeployment will take place first of all between similar sectors and then cross sector if no position can be found in the same sector initially.

A full list wasn't published by the Times the other day so who knows what the full list is. I also wonder how many schools are over quota but have many part time staff whose hours will be cut or let go so no redeployment will take place in them?

linguist

Premier Girl, the list published was not an official list...it was an informal list that the Indo basically seems to have got through their sources and probably even by phoning around.

As rainbowtrout says, your school may be over quota but have RPT teachers who will be let go before permanent ones. The schools on the list are, almost certainly, schools who will have to shed permanent/CID teachers because they're over quota even on those.

However, if your school is losing permanent/CID staff, you could do us a favour here and name your school or at least the precise area it's in. Anything that could help complete the picture would be most welcome.

Fizzical

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Redeployment will take place first of all between similar sectors and then cross sector if no position can be found in the same sector initially.

A full list wasn't published by the Times the other day so who knows what the full list is. I also wonder how many schools are over quota but have many part time staff whose hours will be cut or let go so no redeployment will take place in them?

Over quota means too many CID/permanent teachers. Part time staff are not counted towards the quota.

So if your school is over the quota, it has too many permanent teachers and these are the people who will be redeployed.

Part time staff may still be required for curricular reasons, assessed separately.

Inspector Coptoor

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't see what primary school teaching positions have got to do with secondary teaching positions??? It's a completely separate system for all intents and purposes. You have full teachers or no teachers. A primary school class doesn't have part time hours. If the school loses a teacher, classes get merged (in small rural schools).

Secondary is a whole different ball game.

This sounds like the arguments that arise frequently on AH. 'Teachers have loads of holidays and work hardly any hours '... 'Well if you think they've got it that easy, why don't you go and become a teacher, there's nothing stopping you'

Why do you begrudge a primary school graduate a permanent teaching job because it was available and they were straight out of college? I could just as easily say 'if you wanted a permanent job straight out of college why didn't you do primary teaching instead???'

It brings it to a whole new level if secondary teachers are begrudging primary teachers their 'permanent' jobs. Actually it disgusts me that you would look down on primary school graduates for doing a three year teaching degree instead of 5years+ for secondary. Do you think you are better than them because you might have spent more time in college than them? Many of those primary teachers have other qualifications other than their degree AND if they only have their degree in primary teaching why shouldn't they be employed as primary teachers? They are qualified.

For what it's worth I did a four year secondary teaching degree, I see myself as no more or less qualified than those who did the three years in Mary I.... and I got a permanent job straight out of college at the age of 22 - not a common occurrence at second level. Should I have refused my job 10 years ago and said 'Surely you can find an RPT teacher knocking about better qualified than me for the job? I'm only straight out of college, what would I know?'

You're missing my point entirely.

It's not begrudgery at the teachers themselves, it's begrudgery at a system that has allowed things like "luck", "right place, right time" and nepotism to influence who gets jobs in the teaching sector.
All I'm asking for is a fair crack of the whip, something sorely lacking at present.

I included primary school teachers as they are teachers, like secondary school teachers, who fall under the Croke Park Deal, ergo the redeploment scheme.

I never said better either, you are taking things way out of context.

My point is this, teachers should all spend roughly the same mimimum amount of time in 3rd level and it shouldnt be easier for one type of teacher to get a more secure job at younger age than another type of teacher.

I never suggested you should refuse your job, what kind of a statement to make is that?

Its actually a sickening statement for you to make as you sit back there in your permanent and secure contract and pontificate to me.

kennys4

Can confirm that 5 of the positions in the Dublin area for redeployment are in the following subject areas:
1. English
2. History
3. Art
4. English
5. English & Religion

Does anyone know of any others??????? These are confirmed from schools that I know the people being redeployed..

linguist

kennys4: Great work...thanks a lot. I can tell from your frown that you may be concerned about this, but seriously don't stress too much. There appear to be very few surplus teachers in Dublin compared to other regions and as I've said before there will be retirements etc... that will ease this.

Difficult and all as it is, we can all do with being informed. You've done us a great service. Thanks a lot!

kennys4

Linguist: The problem with the list printed in the indo is that it doesnt include schools losing 1 teacher.. I have heard that there are almost 30 teachers in the dublin area alone. Schools in Meath and Kildare will also fall into the 50km radius. This will affect ppl like myself who were hoping to be made permanent this year. My job has to throught the redeployment panel and I may lose it.:(

Premier Girl

Jesus, thats crazy.. Whats with all the English jobs? Im in my third year RPT in a dublin school with English&RE.. So so worried... :-(

Premier Girl

Oh and does anyone know what "operation of the law" means?

linguist

Ok, let's break this down a little.

kennys4: Firstly, you say you were hoping to be made permanent this year. With respect, that's pretty imprecise. Have you done four years and thus earned your CID? In that case, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Your principal should by now have filled in and returned the CID form which came with the redeployment forms.

If, on the other hand, your principal was hoping to make you permanent from RPT this summer, I sincerely hope either you and he/she realise that it's about the last thing that should be done. Your strongest position as an RPT teacher is to stay where you are. The unions are adamant that if you've done more than one year, you should not be affected by redeployment and they will fight any threat to your job at law if necessary. However, if your principal has advertised your job as a permanent vacancy through redeployment he/she is either a fool or taking you for one.

On the broader issue of the numbers in Dublin, it's to be expected that they could be that high. However, are you sure that that figure is permanent/CID teachers to be redeployed as opposed to schools that are over quota on pupil teacher ratio? Even at that, I still insist that retirements, appeals, curricular concessions, new posts etc... will lessen the impact significantly. The process is an ongoing one with vacancies being notified to the Department right through May and possibly beyond. I imagine that they will try to redeploy people into new vacancies where at all possible. I still think that on those numbers, it's unlikely to go cross-sectoral in Dublin...does anyone else have a view?

Premier Girl, the operation of the law means what it says on the tin. It's been left ambiguous because of a disagreement between the Department and the unions. Everyone agrees that people with four years done cannot be touched. The Department would like to be able to remove people with fewer years however the unions have said this will be a breach of legislation and that they'll fight it. You should be fine - seriously! You're well up the ladder and, as I stated above, I really think they'll start with new vacancies where possible before working their way up the ladder. If ever you were to be given bad news, get onto your union immediately because they will fight it all the way.

Fizzical

@ linguist

However, are you sure that that figure is permanent/CID teachers to be redeployed as opposed to schools that are over quota on pupil teacher ratio?

Explain? Do you mean if the figures are listing numbers of schools rather than numbers of teachers - doesn't seem to make sense?

linguist

Sorry, not what I meant and in fairness perhaps not the most cogent point I've ever made.

Every year there will be a discrepancy between the first and final allocation of teachers a school gets. Based on the first allocation, there will often be non-permanent teachers whose jobs are in doubt. However, you'd expect that figure to be higher than 30 in the Dublin area which means I'm inclined to believe the figure of 30 permanent/CID teachers to be redeployed in Dublin. I think we'd all like to get chapter and verse on it though. Names of schools would be really helpful.

On a broader point, why do we secondary teachers put up with being kept in the dark? I've asked this before. At primary, they'll be getting detailed information of the numbers to be redeployed in each area from this week. We need to seriously put pressure on the unions here.

gaeilgebeo

linguist wrote: »

Ok, let's break this down a little.

kennys4: Firstly, you say you were hoping to be made permanent this year. With respect, that's pretty imprecise. Have you done four years and thus earned your CID? In that case, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Your principal should by now have filled in and returned the CID form which came with the redeployment forms.

If, on the other hand, your principal was hoping to make you permanent from RPT this summer, I sincerely hope either you and he/she realise that it's about the last thing that should be done. Your strongest position as an RPT teacher is to stay where you are. The unions are adamant that if you've done more than one year, you should not be affected by redeployment and they will fight any threat to your job at law if necessary. However, if your principal has advertised your job as a permanent vacancy through redeployment he/she is either a fool or taking you for one.

On the broader issue of the numbers in Dublin, it's to be expected that they could be that high. However, are you sure that that figure is permanent/CID teachers to be redeployed as opposed to schools that are over quota on pupil teacher ratio? Even at that, I still insist that retirements, appeals, curricular concessions, new posts etc... will lessen the impact significantly. The process is an ongoing one with vacancies being notified to the Department right through May and possibly beyond. I imagine that they will try to redeploy people into new vacancies where at all possible. I still think that on those numbers, it's unlikely to go cross-sectoral in Dublin...does anyone else have a view?

Premier Girl, the operation of the law means what it says on the tin. It's been left ambiguous because of a disagreement between the Department and the unions. Everyone agrees that people with four years done cannot be touched. The Department would like to be able to remove people with fewer years however the unions have said this will be a breach of legislation and that they'll fight it. You should be fine - seriously! You're well up the ladder and, as I stated above, I really think they'll start with new vacancies where possible before working their way up the ladder. If ever you were to be given bad news, get onto your union immediately because they will fight it all the way.

Seriously, where are you getting your information?
The unions have agreed to the Redeployment scheme through the CPA.
At our last union meeting(TUI), the RPT teachers asked lots of questions about their situations/positions and nowhere did the union say that people are safe if they have worked for over a year in a school.
Quite the opposite in fact. Anyone on an RPT contract is at risk of being affected by redeployment.

drusk

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Seriously, where are you getting your information?

The ASTI.

The following comes from the website:

Q. Can people on fixed-term contracts be replaced by a redeployed teacher?

A. This question is complicated by various factors. In the agreement on redeployment in the case of school closure, the Department accepted that it was not possible to redeploy a teacher into a position occupied by a teacher who was in the second or later year of a fixed-term contract. In the new agreement, the Department was insistent that they would attempt to so redeploy teachers. The ASTI insisted that this was contrary to employment law and the result was the insertion of the following phrase in paragraph 3 of Appendix 2 of the Agreement: “..save where such posts cannot be deemed a vacancy by operation of law.” If the Department attempts to redeploy a teacher into a position occupied by a fixed-term teacher who has been in that position for more than 1 year, the ASTI will vigorously defend that temporary teacher’s rights, at law if necessary.



http://www.asti.ie/croke-park-agreement-how-will-it-work/

gaeilgebeo

drusk wrote: »

The ASTI.

The following comes from the website:

Q. Can people on fixed-term contracts be replaced by a redeployed teacher?

A. This question is complicated by various factors. In the agreement on redeployment in the case of school closure, the Department accepted that it was not possible to redeploy a teacher into a position occupied by a teacher who was in the second or later year of a fixed-term contract. In the new agreement, the Department was insistent that they would attempt to so redeploy teachers. The ASTI insisted that this was contrary to employment law and the result was the insertion of the following phrase in paragraph 3 of Appendix 2 of the Agreement: “..save where such posts cannot be deemed a vacancy by operation of law.” If the Department attempts to redeploy a teacher into a position occupied by a fixed-term teacher who has been in that position for more than 1 year, the ASTI will vigorously defend that temporary teacher’s rights, at law if necessary.



http://www.asti.ie/croke-park-agreement-how-will-it-work/

Thank you for your post.
The TUI rep has a very different view of this, as does our CEO.

linguist

The issues involving VECs have been well versed here. There are long standing redeployment arrangements within VECs. Frankly, I've posted at length on those before as have others and you can find those posts if you want. The TUI website does actually give an almost identical view of the redeployment position if you'd care to look for it. The position within a single VEC scheme is quite different.

Perhaps you would at least acknowledge that I and others who've relayed this view of matters (which would appear to be the ASTI's) are actually basing our posts on something. Let me put it this way...I've put a bit of work into my posts here and it's very easy to come along and dismiss them in the way your post appeared to do. As regards your union rep (do you mean school steward?), I have no way of knowing how informed they are...but I'd suggest the union websites do represent their 'official' thinking.

gaeilgebeo

linguist wrote: »

The issues involving VECs have been well versed here. There are long standing redeployment arrangements within VECs. Frankly, I've posted at length on those before as have others and you can find those posts if you want. The TUI website does actually give an almost identical view of the redeployment position if you'd care to look for it. The position within a single VEC scheme is quite different.

Perhaps you would at least acknowledge that I and others who've relayed this view of matters (which would appear to be the ASTI's) are actually basing our posts on something. Let me put it this way...I've put a bit of work into my posts here and it's very easy to come along and dismiss them in the way your post appeared to do. As regards your union rep (do you mean school steward?), I have no way of knowing how informed they are...but I'd suggest the union websites do represent their 'official' thinking.

I am perfectly entitled to post my views on any matter.
You've put a bit of work into your posts, well done, pat on the back.
Also, I am permanent, however, have family in non VEC schools and the situation I have outlined regarding redeployment stands the same in their school(s).

linguist

gaeilgebeo: I never questioned your right to post your views. You appear remarkably selective in the inferences you draw and the points you take issue with.

As another poster highlighted, you questioned where I was getting my information only to have it pointed out that this actually came from the websites of major teaching unions. Anyway, I'm glad you're permanent, well done, pat on the back!:) There are those of us here for whom this debate is not academic but rather a matter of our career and our livelihood and we are surely better informed by what the parties involved are actually saying and publishing which is where I base my views.

gaeilgebeo

Circular released on Friday evening. No full time posts to be filled and no part time posts to be filled (unless prohibited by operation of law)
Its happening and its coming to a school near you very shortly. No more wishful thinking about it being difficult to implement please!
http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/cl0025_2011.pdf?language=EN

Pwpane

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Circular released on Friday evening. No full time posts to be filled and no part time posts to be filled (unless prohibited by operation of law)
Its happening and its coming to a school near you very shortly. No more wishful thinking about it being difficult to implement please!
http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/cl0025_2011.pdf?language=EN

Thank you Gaeilgebeo.

At least someone is keeping us informed, even if not our Union.

linguist

All information is welcome, however I have to point out that there is nothing new in this circular. It merely restates everything that has previously been circulated to union members when they voted. The only difference now is that it has come out as an official Department circular.

If nothing has changed in this circular, then similarly nothing has changed in the divergent views of the Department and the unions regarding its interpretation and implementation. Referring to the considered view held by the two post-primary unions and re-stated by me here as 'wishful thinking' is most dismissive. The unions believe that many posts held by RPTs with two or three years completed are not vacancies; the Department disagrees. The Director of Redeployment will have to proceed as he sees fit mindful of these differing viewpoints. I would imagine that he will seek to avoid conflict by redeploying people into non-contentious vacancies to the greatest possible extent.

Now, wouldn't we be better off here pushing for the best outcome for teachers instead of signing up to a 'life is sh*t, deal with it' mindset.

For example, our primary colleagues now know how many people are on panels in each region. Those figures will be updated regularly. They are on the Department's website. At post-primary, by failing to raise our voices, we are allowing the Department and the unions to keep us ignorant of the extent of the situation. If primary teachers can be told how bad it is region by region, why can't we? We should be told now the numbers involved, where they are and the subjects they teach. For some this would provide reassurance, for others it wouldn't - but ultimately knowledge is always better than ignorance.

The Director of Redeployment, Turloch O'Connor, has been addressing meetings recently. In particular, he addressed the ASTI principals' and deputy principals' meeting in Athlone last week. What was said? Did he offer clarifications or reassurance? You won't find anything on the ASTI's website about it. You would think that when something as important is discussed at a union gathering, the first thing the union would do is inform those likely to be affected.

These are the kind of considerations that should be driving us.

tosh999

At last weeks meeting he stated that:

Anyone who voluntarily selected redeployment has been, or is in the process of being offered a new position

That retirements may not absorb all the redeployments, most retirements in Dublin. Everyone would like to go to Galway.

Surplus teachers will be redeployed , no way out of it.

That Principals must tell the truth when declaring/advertising vacancies - these would be audited and spot checks would be carried out.

Pat King, in the presence of Turloch, said they would contest the redeployment of a teacher to replace a teacher in their 3rd year of fixed term contract

linguist

tosh999: Thank you so much for this. As I said, knowledge is always better than ignorance.

Inevitably, I have a couple more questions for you. If you've a moment to answer them, it would be greatly appreciated.

The ASTI website still says that they will fight for people with two years done. Did Pat King specifically give up on people with two years done, or was that an answer to a specific question on people with three years service?

Were there any numbers given or information on subjects, regions etc...? It would be interesting to know how many volunteered.

What was/is the feeling among principals as to how many posts would ultimately be filled by redeployment and whether it is likely to go cross-sectoral? I'm in Dublin myself so that's the picture I'm most interested in personally but if you can give a broader answer so much the better.

2011abc

QUOTE
8. The usage of the additional hours will be outlined as appropriate in the school
calendar which is made available to the school community at the
commencement of each school year.

Am I the only one who reads this as, "Look at those lazy teachers ,NOW we'll make them work for their pay cut!"
What next ?Standing outside the school gate with a placard stating availablity to mow lawns and do other oddjobs to justify our existence .Shameful.

linguist

2011abc: I've more than a degree of sympathy with what you depict as an element of pandering to the baying mob in all this. I've heard it for years. 'Oh you should be in working during the summer.' Doing what? I actually believe there are people out there who think we should be painting and doing odd jobs. I recall a taxi driver a couple of years ago who wanted to give me a piece of his mind as I went home after an end of year staff social. A bit of rare Dutch courage took over as I told the gob****e that I didn't care what he thought about teachers because frankly I didn't have to! But I digress...

That said, if you read about the implementation of the extra hour, you will see it is to be done on a whole school basis. Thus it will apply to activities that form part of the school's work - not how you organise your personal time after class. It is thus sensible that it be timetabled and made available to those concerned. We are talking parent-teacher meetings, subject planning etc... I doubt that parents and students need to be told more than what directly concerns them, but the finer details should be in the staff timetable.

peanuthead

linguist wrote: »

2011abc: I've more than a degree of sympathy with what you depict as an element of pandering to the baying mob in all this. I've heard it for years. 'Oh you should be in working during the summer.' Doing what? I actually believe there are people out there who think we should be painting and doing odd jobs. I recall a taxi driver a couple of years ago who wanted to give me a piece of his mind as I went home after an end of year staff social. A bit of rare Dutch courage took over as I told the gob****e that I didn't care what he thought about teachers because frankly I didn't have to! But I digress...

That said, if you read about the implementation of the extra hour, you will see it is to be done on a whole school basis. Thus it will apply to activities that form part of the school's work - not how you organise your personal time after class. It is thus sensible that it be timetabled and made available to those concerned. We are talking parent-teacher meetings, subject planning etc... I doubt that parents and students need to be told more than what directly concerns them, but the finer details should be in the staff timetable.

I'm imagining that for a lot of schools, I know mine is this way, this will just be a matter of formalising what is already done in schools.

I rarely leave the building each day, Fridays included, before 5.30pm and I am in there at 8.30am. So my job is already the 9-5 my friends have.

One thing that should be noted too is that these hours will not involve extra-curricular sports and extra classes that are given coming up to exam times.

Now that's fair enough, I'm not here to argue against that but it should be noted that:

the practical subject teachers in our place, and a lot of others I'm sure are currently going until 6.30 or so every day at the moment with projects

we've had the language teachers in the past SATURDAYS helping students out with mock orals

then you have teachers who are there one or two days a week all through the year until 7pm doing sports they are not paid for.

That is all kind of work that is not 'planning' based and will still have to be done over and above the extra hours being requested.

I would bet my life that there are few, if any teachers who are on a 22hr contract and are managing to ONLY work 22 hrs.

linguist

Entirely agree peanuthead. The way I see it - it's not that those who bash us don't actually know that we do all of this. Rather they cannot bring themselves to recognise it because to do so would bring down the whole edifice of lies and envy on which their antipathy towards teachers is based.

I am one of those language teachers who has been doing exactly as you described - hence the username! It is, of course, absolutely offensive to suggest that I work only 22 hours and should be made do a 23rd. However, the difference is that this will be an extra hour delivered on a whole school basis over which I will not have any personal discretion and thus the issue of including it on the school calendar is really not a big one.

Lord TSC

Rather they cannot bring themselves to recognise it because to do so would bring down the whole edifice of lies and envy on which their antipathy towards teachers is based.

I don't know if it's "lies and envy" as much as it is that the vast amjority of the public have an idea of what a teacher's job is based on what they saw growing up. People think that what they saw of teachers (only working in classes and nothing else; no "behind the scenes" work, "great holidays" where "they are not in a classroom teaching, ergo are not working") is the full picture and base their views and opinions on that. Sadly, most don't realise the ammount of work that goes into class prep and all the stuff that happens outside the classroom and thus think teachers are overpaid, yada yada yada.
I'll admit that until last year, I didn't have a clue how tough teaching actually was and that was me working with 8 classes a week over two days....The fact is that alot of people simply don't understand the work teachers do and thus can't feel sympathy...

peanuthead

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I don't know if it's "lies and envy" as much as it is that the vast amjority of the public have an idea of what a teacher's job is based on what they saw growing up. People think that what they saw of teachers (only working in classes and nothing else; no "behind the scenes" work, "great holidays" where "they are not in a classroom teaching, ergo are not working") is the full picture and base their views and opinions on that. Sadly, most don't realise the ammount of work that goes into class prep and all the stuff that happens outside the classroom and thus think teachers are overpaid, yada yada yada.
I'll admit that until last year, I didn't have a clue how tough teaching actually was and that was me working with 8 classes a week over two days....The fact is that alot of people simply don't understand the work teachers do and thus can't feel sympathy...

This is also true.

Teamshadowclan, we did our dip together from what I can gather from your posts on here and you may remember one lecturer saying more or less what you have just said to us at one point.

He suggested that teaching is the only profession where everyone seems to have an opinion they feel is valid, and the majority of these opinions are based on what they remember from their own school days.

People think that because they have been in a classroom once before that they know all there is to know about the profession.

Our lecturer also (correctly, in my opinon) suggested that there would be far less people barging into surgeries telling vets how to neuter cats or operating theatres telling surgeons how to perform brain operations. Even less scritinising what they are paid for doing it.

And before anyone jumps in and claims I'm trying to put brain surgery and teaching in the same league, I'm not.

Lord TSC

Yeah, you're right.
I often think of and quote that lecturer when it comes to the matter at hand, cause it's true. In fairness to a lot of people who make wild claims about teachers, it's based on ignorance and I'd never get annoyed with such people. I'd just politly correct them and point out the mistakes they are making.

I was told one story last year in my school of a politician who visited the school I was in a few years back. He came in, did his talks with the students and then was invited into the staff room for a cup of tea at the end of the school day. He was shocked to find the majority of the teachers were still sitting at their desks, working and planning, and actually asked what they were doing. When the teachers replied they were working he laughed and responded along the lines of "Really? But you're teachers!".

Needless to say he was not invited back :P

ninjasurfer1

floating voter wrote: »

anyone selected for redeployment under terms of croke park deal?

anyone here of someone that was selected?

closing date 4th march for staff to be notified.

My cousin (CID status) has just been told verbally, that he will be the schools nominated teacher to be redeployed. (The official paperwork will be sent to him sometime this week or next).

Should he have been informed before this if the cutoff date was march 4th?
(Does anyone have a link to any documentation referencing the cut off date?).

Thanks,

Benicetomonty

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

My cousin (CID status) has just been told verbally, that he will be the schools nominated teacher to be redeployed. (The official paperwork will be sent to him sometime this week or next).

Should he have been informed before this if the cutoff date was march 4th?
(Does anyone have a link to any documentation referencing the cut off date?).

Thanks,

I'm part-time and, along with other p-timers, was told by the principal before Easter that our positions cannot be assured until the redeployment crowd examine them with regard to any surplus permanent teachers that may be knocking around the area. I won't know until 31st of May at the earliest and I can only presume the corresponding redeployed will have to expect similarly late notification.

Fizzical

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

My cousin (CID status) has just been told verbally, that he will be the schools nominated teacher to be redeployed. (The official paperwork will be sent to him sometime this week or next).

Should he have been informed before this if the cutoff date was march 4th?
(Does anyone have a link to any documentation referencing the cut off date?).

Thanks,

The 4th of March was the date that the school had to tell the DES if the school was over quota and nominate the teacher to be redeployed (also nominate the people due CID's). I don't know if the nominated teacher had to be told, though. The best thing to do is to contact the union steward as they'll have the letter.

I have no faith in schools following circulars to the letter. I think they do what they like, when they like, as long as they can get away with it.

The CP agreement does state that the teacher can appeal if procedures weren't followed.

linguist

Just on ninjasurfer1's point, it would be really useful to know the geographical place the teacher is teaching in and the subject(s) as some of us here have been doing our best to put together a picture of what's in store.

Apart from that, how do we all feel in the aftermath of the conferences?

I've expressed my opinions before regarding the rights of fixed term teachers as outlined by the unions and I see no need to change them yet. However, it was telling in the Minister's speeches that he offered no comfort to people with two or three years done. I may as well be honest with myself and others here. There was a lot of rhetoric from the union leaders of course but much of my personal concern boils down to this:

Non-permanent secondary teachers are, yet again, being kept in juvenile ignorance in stark contrast to our primary counterparts represented by the excellent INTO. They are being told where the teachers to be redeployed are and the information is being updated on a rolling basis. We, on the other hand, are reduced to a silly guessing game, or worse still, trying to reassure ourselves because "I haven't heard of any French teachers (for example) being redeployed yet". It was interesting reading an account of Pat King's concern about a disconnect opening up between the union and ordinary teachers...I wonder why!

A well written article in The Irish Times by a journalist I hadn't come across before, Peter McGuire, gave an unusually balanced and sympathetic analysis of the jobs situation in secondary teaching. He suggested that there are teacher shortages in Irish and languages and surpluses in English, History and Business. That would appear to tally with other suggestions I've heard and the small amount of info that's come out in this thread on the subject teachers being redeployed. But can anyone add to it?

There's no point in people walking in an overburdened principal's door with these concerns if we're not prepared to push the unions whose dues we pay. I strongly urge people to hassle the hell out of them in May to get the kind of information that INTO members can virtually take for granted.

gaeilgebeo

On the subject of language teachers, in my school, a (CID) French teacher is up for redeployment as a more senior French teacher in the school has been working for the SLSS for a number of years and is now returning to the classroom (not by choice), but because her position with the SLSS no longer exists.

My sister teaches is a large girls secondary school, however because the numbers have fallen in the last 3/4 years, they are surplus an Irish teacher amongst others. There are 4 teachers in that school being redeployed.

Subjectwise, I wouldn't think any subject is "safe" from redeployment unfortunately.

mazken

I'm just wondering if anybody has heard of any definite positions being filled in their school through the redeployment panel?
I'm on a RPT contract and while technically I should have a job next year it is up for grabs! It's so nerve wrecking!! Just wondering if the wheels have been put in motion and how long of sitting on tender hooks is left....
Thanks

Prof252

Let's start feeding back info re what we know about redeployment. Knowledge is power and our temporary teachers need to know as much as possible.

It's June tomorrow so there should be some info at least making its way around the net.

Just personally, any news on the Wicklow/South Dublin area? Our management still has 'no information'.

Donegaljack

Just been redeployed 130km from my home and 79km from my centre, what kind of CP deal are we really in for?

Art Teacher

Prof252 wrote: »

Let's start feeding back info re what we know about redeployment. Knowledge is power and our temporary teachers need to know as much as possible.

It's June tomorrow so there should be some info at least making its way around the net.

Just personally, any news on the Wicklow/South Dublin area? Our management still has 'no information'.

As far as I know there is no over- quota situation in Wicklow or Co Dublin VEC so redeployments will not take place in their schools.

Prof252

Thanks Art Teacher. I'd love to think you're correct, and anything I've heard to date qualifies what you know. I believe a large amount are in the Galway, Cork, Limerick, Clare and Sligo areas, with the respective cities being most effected, so my heart goes out to all those RPT teachers over there, not nice. Dublin is also quite loaded, as any capital would be. Let's hope we all get more info asap and the majority of us (which let's face it is what it is) shall take up the same post in the end of August. Let's keep providing info here folks - knowledge is power and we are the future of the Irish education system.

whiteandlight

My principal (south dublin) still cannot confirm whether or not there will be redeployment into my school. No correspondence from the department yet.

linguist

If you look at the new thread I've just posted, it contains good news for Leinster. Any principal who hasn't received correspondence is clear to fill their jobs.

Prof252

Cheers, I'll have a look

Prof252

Exact same situation here. I took the bull by the horns today and perhaps was a bit forward in doing so but I am fed up of the waiting game and and just naturally proactive. Rang DES and was told things should be entirely finalised by the end of next week. I sincerely hope that the fact that my school hasn't heard a thing is a good thing. According to the personnel in the Dept. there is still a small number, but still a number, to receive their final redeployed posts and therefore a series of 'negotiations' are taking place. I wish they could clear the list and let those not affected by it all advertise their vacancies or reassure their RPT teachers.

chesera

I know of a situation where a qualified Home Economics teacher in a Youthreach Centre is being replaced by an unqualified but permanent resource worker from a Centre thats closing! Any thoughts. Should teachers be dismissed in such cases in advance of new person accepting the job?

implausible

chesera wrote: »

I know of a situation where a qualified Home Economics teacher in a Youthreach Centre is being replaced by an unqualified but permanent resource worker from a Centre thats closing! Any thoughts. Should teachers be dismissed in such cases in advance of new person accepting the job?

The TUI fought for a long time to get YR workers recognised as teachers for purposes of redeployment, so I'd imagine that's what happened here. It may not even be to do with Croke Park as YR is usually under the auspices of a VEC and within a VEC, redeployment has always been a risk.

The HE teacher isn't being dismissed; her contract is not being renewed. It sucks, but it's the system.

Kazbah

Anyone know if redeployment has been sorted yet? I still have no idea if my RPT contract will be renewed yet

Happyzebra

Hi. My school still hasnt got it sorted. Not a whisper re contracts for rpt. only cid are being sorted at the moment