Help save Ireland's Forests

david75

The Irish Government is moving closer to a huge sell-off of the public forests managed by Coillte (The Irish Forestry Board) to private investors. An area greater than 1 million acres, equivalent to two medium sized counties will be lost forever. This will include some of our most valuable native woodlands, wild places and some of the last refuges of our native flora and fauna.

Interest has been expressed by Swiss finance company Helvetia Wealth - who own the International Forestry Fund (IFF) - chaired by Bertie Ahern, (ex-prime minister of Ireland) as well as The China Investment Corporation.

Please sign this petition now to tell the Irish Government that Ireland's Forests are not for sale. These forests are the inheritance of the Irish children and managed wisely can help secure Ireland's social, environmental and economic future. A strong show of support, asserting our rightful ownership of the public forests will make all the difference.

Only takes a second and if enough people make a noise they'll have to listen.
http://www.woodlandleague.org/

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Does this stuff ever make a difference?

Fizman

This is a rare example of when less bush = bad.

strokemyclover

david75 wrote: »

Interest has been expressed by Swiss finance company Helvetia Wealth - who own the International Forestry Fund (IFF) - chaired by Bertie Ahern, (ex-prime minister of Ireland) as well as The China Investment Corporation.

Who?

Never heard of him!

Rabble much?

kincsem

Bertie Ahern is going to "help" us two times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5FekO9jxVk

stevejr

Signed....So this process was ongoing under the collective watch of FF and the GREENS?....That right OP. We're supposed to be the greenest nation of all, yet our Greens seem to be the darkest shade of that particular hue,....plus ca change

Caoimhín

Good post. It would be a disgrace if such a large part of Ireland is sold off to private investors who will only care about squeezing it for profit.

Caoimhín

strokemyclover wrote: »

Rabble much?

Thats getting old and it wasn't even funny the first time. Would you care to explain why it is rabble, or did you just spit out the first internet cliché that came into your head in a sad attempt to seem funny and smart?

Keith186

Done.

strokemyclover

Caoimhín wrote: »

Thats getting old and it wasn't even funny the first time. Would you care to explain why it is rabble, or did you just spit out the first internet cliché that came into your head in a sad attempt to seem funny and smart?

I agree the man is a scumbag and didn't highlight his name in order to sound funny or similar. The OP obviously used his name to garner more support for his cause rather than contribute to the facts of the problem.

Bertie is involved in solar energy generation and has been named as a chairman or ambassador for such a company according to newspapars last weekend. I simply don't agree with using his name in this thread in order to gain more support than would normally be received due to our economic situation

IMHO It's akin to dynasty political voting e.g. If Bertie's f*cked me over, I'll vote for whatever will bring him down - not too dissimilar to people in Laois/Offaly voting for Barry Cowen because Brian once done them a favour, no?

starbelgrade

Coillte owns 7% of the land in Ireland.

It's land assets are valued at €1.2 billion.

One of the recommendations of the McCarthy "snip report" was to sell the land & release the value to the government - the major reasoning behind this being that the company was woefully mismanaged.

What it fails to report is that mismanagement of profits & grants happened mostly under the "watchful eye" of a "lovable rogue" - the very same lovable rogue, who is now the chairman of the company trying to buy the land.

This land is of huge value & benefit to the Irish people. To sell it off would be akin to what we did with the Corrib Gas. To sell it off to one of the biggest slimebags ever to walk this land would be simply criminal.

If this shit weren't true, you honestly couldn't make it up. If you you were to make it up, you would have to cast Bertie Ahern as a more evil version of Lex Luther just to paint an accurate picture.

Caoimhín

strokemyclover wrote: »

IMHO It's akin to dynasty political voting e.g. If Bertie's f*cked me over, I'll vote for whatever will bring him down - not too dissimilar to people in Laois/Offaly voting for Barry Cowen because Brian once done them a favour, no?

Well I certainly didnt pick that up from his post and i think Aherns role in a company trying to buy 7% of the country's land mass is pertinent.

starbelgrade

strokemyclover wrote: »

Bertie is involved in solar energy generation and has been named as a chairman or ambassador for such a company according to newspapars last weekend. I simply don't agree with using his name in this thread in order to gain more support than would normally be received due to our economic situation

He is now a chairman for Scientia Solar, which operates solar energy plants in Puglia in southern Italy.

I fail to see what relevance that has to another company which he chairs trying to buy up huge chunks of the country.

And I do believe that his involvement in this also has some relevance beyond trying to gather up a "rabble".

stevejr

Caoimhín wrote: »

Thats getting old and it wasn't even funny the first time. Would you care to explain why it is rabble, or did you just spit out the first internet cliché that came into your head in a sad attempt to seem funny and smart?

Correct Caoimhin in the sentiment, but this is AH and I have been guilty of that myself in the past. A lot of posters don't discriminate between a target and a victim hence the misplaced jokes.

But the OP is dead on, despite our country's current bankruptcy, prostitution of our national assetts is degrading and a point-blank headshot to whatever credibility we, as a nation have left. Particularly considering the whole Shell-to-Sea fiasco in the recent past.

stevejr

strokemyclover wrote: »

IMHO It's akin to dynasty political voting e.g. If Bertie's f*cked me over, I'll vote for whatever will bring him down - not too dissimilar to people in Laois/Offaly voting for Barry Cowen because Brian once done them a favour, no?

An over-simplification if ever I read one. Barry Cowen was barely elected and faced massive opposition,...it's akin to nothing.

Treora

strokemyclover wrote: »

I agree the man is a scumbag and didn't highlight his name in order to sound funny or similar. The OP obviously used his name to garner more support for his cause rather than contribute to the facts of the problem.

Bertie is involved in solar energy generation and has been named as a chairman or ambassador for such a company according to newspapars last weekend. I simply don't agree with using his name in this thread in order to gain more support than would normally be received due to our economic situation

Funnily Helvetia Wealth specifically issued a press release to do exactly the same thing. They bought access to every meeting involved in the sale of coillte. Why? He put most of the political appointees there.

Bertie may be a **** magnet for the public on this one, but FG have the IMF to pay back on a loan they should never have taken and Helvetia Wealth know this. Bertie's sway only has a limited shelf life and everyone involved is capitalising on it.

The massive one on this is not the access to the land which will be cut off for insurance purposes or the destruction of the few native trees on coillte land. No, the big one here is the €1*(10)12 in carbon credits and more importantly carbon credit derivatives that HW will earn over the next 15 years from this amazing deal.

This is another corrib, selling the jewels at rock bottom prices. Like Browne and the British gold. All future EU manufacturing will be weighted against auctioned carbon credits. 7% of prime carbon credit land (theoretical quality of land is all that is important) will provide HW of a way of paying for pensions for generations to come.

People don't realise this, but if Ireland held that land and leased year on year those credits to the highest bidder and holding a commission on all derivatives from that land we would be about to pay off the national debt just using coillte land.

FG are running Ireland from a train, they are about to jump out of the way but swing a leg back on the tracks because a old station master said so.

stevejr

Thanks Treora, I didn't know any of that. Scary stuff..

strokemyclover

Caoimhín wrote: »

Well I certainly didnt pick that up from his post and i think Aherns role in a company trying to buy 7% of the country's land mass is pertinent.

stevejr wrote: »

An over-simplification if ever I read one. Barry Cowen was barely elected and faced massive opposition,...it's akin to nothing.

It's just another example of how f*cked up this country's attitude towards national institutions really are.

For example, people see a terribly run health service and immediately blame the political force behind it and necessary financial cuts rather than look at themselves and how they are contributing towards how bad that service is. I'm not talking strictly about the people dependant on the service but everyone in between including GP's, administrators and private health insurers aswell as patients. Just for the record, I am coming from a perspective where I have had serious dependance on our health service over the past 8 months in order to live.

Believe it or not, the problems in Ireland aren't strictly political, more societal - I'm sure there is a demand for these changes to our national forests in order to accomodate our energy demands! Unfortunately, we're too selfish as a people to realise we may also be contributing to the issue at hand and take responsibility for our part. We would rather blame a scapegoat instead. How could we sleep at night otherwise?

I suppose we could just drink ourselves silly instead and further contribute to the workload/cost of our health service or use more energy to charge our iPods! Sorry for using such generalisations but, as much as I hate myself for saying it.....there are more people to blame here rather than Bertie Ahern!

Overheal

Go on Ireland. Sell yourselves off.

Serious question: why wouldn't Irish Investors be given an opportunity to bid on the land? Or is it in fact just being sold to the highest bidders. I can understand the latter. If private Irish forestry wants to pick up the land they should be welcome to. Forestry is a fair chunk of change; everything from straight lumber to wood floors and fancy veneers for the armrest in your lincoln town car. A gold mine or squirrel wilderness!

I say the same thing about corrib gas: Stop whining - if you want it to be kept in Irish Hands, look to Irish Entrepreneurs. No Irish Entrepreneurs? Well then sir I think you know where your next big business idea is going to come from. Honestly theres a lot of people wiling to moan about no jobs and gas being sold off but not many people out there willing to go become chemical engineers and pioneer an Irish-operated oil industry.

starbelgrade

strokemyclover wrote: »

Believe it or not, the problems in Ireland aren't strictly political, more societal - I'm sure there is a demand for these changes to our national forests in order to accomodate our energy demands! Unfortunately, we're too selfish as a people to realise we may also be contributing to the issue at hand and take responsibility for our part. We would rather blame a scapegoat instead. How could we sleep at night otherwise?

I suppose we could just drink ourselves silly instead and further contribute to the workload/cost of our health service or use more energy to charge our iPods! Sorry for using such generalisations but, as much as I hate myself for saying it.....there are more people to blame here rather than Bertie Ahern!

No-one is blaming Bertie Ahern for this. But he is part of the story & that part is worth a mention.

And the thread was started to help raise awareness of a campaign to put a stop to the selling of our natural assets. If anything, this is a positive move, far more positive than not plugging in an iPod to recharge it.

Treora

strokemyclover wrote: »

Believe it or not, the problems in Ireland aren't strictly political, more societal

So true. Watch a plebiscite in Switzerland where in every small town 2000 people make a public show of hands in a town square on a referendum on a monthly basis. Or in Sweden where the political parties open stalls like a farmers market in the city's main square come election time. Politicians only really fear two things. Internal party dissent and a courageous & educated citizenry.

Caoimhín

Overheal wrote: »

Go on Ireland. Sell yourselves off.

Serious question: why wouldn't Irish Investors be given an opportunity to bid on the land? Or is it in fact just being sold to the highest bidders.

I imagine it would be sold on a provincial or regional basis making it prohibitively expensive for a domestic company.

Overheal

Caoimhín wrote: »

I imagine it would be sold on a provincial or regional basis making it prohibitively expensive for a domestic company.

You'd want to check that. I'd be shocked if they were going to hand the land off to foreigners in massive no-bid contracts.

Caoimhín

Overheal wrote: »

You'd want to check that. I'd be shocked if they were going to hand the land off to foreigners in massive no-bid contracts.

Oh im sure they would put it to auction, its just that the price for an entire region would be out of reach of even the biggest domestic investment firms.

stevejr

strokemyclover wrote: »

It's just another example of how f*cked up this country's attitude towards national institutions really are.

For example, people see a terribly run health service and immediately blame the political force behind it and necessary financial cuts rather than look at themselves and how they are contributing towards how bad that service is. I'm not talking strictly about the people dependant on the service but everyone in between including GP's, administrators and private health insurers aswell as patients. Just for the record, I am coming from a perspective where I have had serious dependance on our health service over the past 8 months in order to live.

Believe it or not, the problems in Ireland aren't strictly political, more societal - I'm sure there is a demand for these changes to our national forests in order to accomodate our energy demands! Unfortunately, we're too selfish as a people to realise we may also be contributing to the issue at hand and take responsibility for our part. We would rather blame a scapegoat instead. How could we sleep at night otherwise?

I suppose we could just drink ourselves silly instead and further contribute to the workload/cost of our health service or use more energy to charge our iPods! Sorry for using such generalisations but, as much as I hate myself for saying it.....there are more people to blame here rather than Bertie Ahern!

Fair points, all of them and well made....but here's my praise sandwich.

The TD's the that become ministers are automatically made the electorally accountable managers of these departments, and as a rule these ministers/managers have failed their own bosses(ie.the taxpayer) through systematic lies(read-PR) and mismanagement.

The scapegoats as you call them are not in fact scapegoats, a scapegoat is someone who unwittingly takes the blame when in fact they are blameless or only partially to blame. The keyword in the last sentence as you may have guessed is unwittingly, a term which has never applied to our public representatives in terms of accountability for their departments. They fully expected to be blamed/accountable,...which a scapegoat never is.

If there's a belief that Ministers cannot control their departments then the blame for that should not lie totally on the (supposedly subordinate civil service) underlings but on the Ministers who have a mandated(ie. superior) right to run their allotted Dept. any Dept in accordance with that mandate. Your penultimate point quite frankly..."we could all drink ourselves silly" is ridiculous and does nothing to enhance your arguments.

But your final point "there are more people to blame than Bertie" is absolutely right.....many cabinets-full more are to blame.

MASTER...of the bra

England were thinking of selling their forests until the public outcry made Cameron change his mind. HERE.

chucken1

david75 wrote: »

The Irish Government is moving closer to a huge sell-off of the public forests managed by Coillte (The Irish Forestry Board) to private investors. An area greater than 1 million acres, equivalent to two medium sized counties will be lost forever. This will include some of our most valuable native woodlands, wild places and some of the last refuges of our native flora and fauna.

Interest has been expressed by Swiss finance company Helvetia Wealth - who own the International Forestry Fund (IFF) - chaired by Bertie Ahern, (ex-prime minister of Ireland) as well as The China Investment Corporation.

Please sign this petition now to tell the Irish Government that Ireland's Forests are not for sale. These forests are the inheritance of the Irish children and managed wisely can help secure Ireland's social, environmental and economic future. A strong show of support, asserting our rightful ownership of the public forests will make all the difference.

Only takes a second and if enough people make a noise they'll have to listen.
http://www.woodlandleague.org/

How/When? We dont make noise! Thats why we get ridden as a country.

david75

Em, the OP(me) wrote a clumsy post asking you all to sign but then decided the blurb from the petition site was better so copied and pasted it.

Don't miss the point, as assests, as someone above pointed out, these forests could be used later in huge benefit to the nation as collaterall in the carbon tax scheme. Also how completely crap ould Ireland look with NO forests?

It's simplistic and I'm an an idealist but we're screwing everything up with infrastructure and in how we basically run things now they wanna literally rob and screw up the landscape too?? can we not just fight to save one thing??

The petition is headed for the President, Taoiseach and Minister for the environment as far as I know, So if it's Macaleese or Norris(presumptive) enough names could actually put a dent in this..

only takes a minute to sign it..c'mon

Run_to_da_hills

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

England were thinking of selling their forests until the public outcry made Cameron change his mind. HERE.

They already sold off their railways and made a bollix of it

Try getting a return journey within an hour of London and you won't get much change out of forty quid. :eek:

GrizzlyMan

Done, Great post op:)

biko

Sorry OP but AH isn't a "fill my petition forum" for any cause, and Odin knows there's many worthy causes out there.
Put a link in you signature and find a forum that allows a thread on this.

Btw, researching it before this lock I came upon this:
Latest Ahern role linked to offshore funds

Ex-taoiseach chair of forestry body financed by Swiss company that offers controversial service.
Based in Switzerland and Liechtenstein, it boasts that it can give the benefits of an offshore bank account to ordinary investors.
Its website states: "Offshore banking was once the sole preserve of the world's wealthiest investors; a lucrative, fiercely-guarded sphere that offered financial rewards to a small handful of private and corporate investors. The benefits of offshore banking are vast; its scope for wealth creation and preservation are almost limitless".

Nice one Bert.