Skull Girls discussion thread

UberPrinny_Baal

Sairus wrote: »

Reading on the SRK forums, apparently MikeZ was made change Hornet Bomber by higher ups.

This is interesting, we don't normally get to find out what was intended by the designers, and what was forced by the management.

Remember in early vanilla Marvel 3 where Sentinel was "OP"? People got over that pretty quickly, but he ended up with a brutal HP nerf

What was Hornet Bomber, and what is it now?

Sairus

Mike_Z wrote: »

It's still my judgment about what gets changed, just that SOMETHING has to get changed. And just to be clear, because I don't wish people hating on anyone, it isn't like "HEY DO THIS OR ELSE" it's more a "lots of people have intimated that it might be a good idea to nerf it."

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

What was Hornet Bomber, and what is it now?

It's doubles DP+K where she dives across the screen as Cerebella butt first. It's a really annoying assist because it's full screen, mad invincible and either knocks you back most/all of the screen or sets you up for annoying mixups while you're stuck in block stun hidden behind her massive butt sprite. If it hits you can combo from it because it puts you in an untechable knockdown.

I can't find the exact post where it was discussed but basically they reduced the invincibility on all versions - small reduction on light, medium reduction on medium, no invincibilty at all on heavy. It also now leaves you in a techable knockdown so combos are gone. Mike did mention he was looking at putting the opponent in a juggle state instead of the techable knockdown so that combos would still be possible, just harder.

Also, food for thought:

Mike_Z wrote: »

First off, nothing about this build is final. Don't make me regret having an open development process, again. Like I said, it's not in the patch until there is a patch...and I don't know when the next patch would BE so I'm looking into a lot of things right now.

Another thing he mentioned (but I'm not arsed going back to fish out the quote) is that because of damage scaling combos were becoming needlessly long for very little extra damage. He reckoned that putting this new limiter on the IPS will shorten combos to more reasonable lengths so the combo receiver isn't getting bored for 10 seconds for a couple thousand extra damage.

Sairus

SRK have a nice and comprehensive list of all(?) the changes currently in the build:

Skullgirls Patch Changes

• Added New Tournament Mode
• All colors are available in tournament mode.
• Sparring mode is not available in tournament mode.
• Tournament mode starts you off in button check after controller select and before character select so you don’t forget to do it.
• Unplugging a controller after a match takes you immediately back to controller select.
• Match options cannot be changed off the default options in tournament mode.
• Tournament mode will not grant you achievements, so the game will not freeze during gameplay.

Global Changes

• Infinite prevention system now treats standing normal, crouching normal, and command normal as the same move. (Example, s.LP, s.MP, s.HP, c.LP, s.MP, s.HP previously wouldn’t trigger the iPS late in a combo. Now it will because s.LP and c.LP are both considered “grounded LP” for the purposes of detecting infinites.) This makes combos shorter and makes the game more “resetty”.
• Hard tags now count toward the IPS.
• DHCs no longer reset the IPS in some instances.
• Random situations in which the IPS triggered without actually performing a loop after a one frame link have been fixed. (One frame resets still do trigger the IPS.)
• The throw tech window has been increased by 3 frames after a grab. (Cerebella’s air command grab is not affected.)
• Hit-sparks no longer change to pink when comboing an assist character.
• When comboing a character after death, they become immediately invincible after the infinite prevention system is triggered, ending the combo.
• Assists now take 20% more damage when hit, up from 6%.
• DHC freeze glitch has been fixed.
• Alpha counter bugs have been fixed.
• Forward techs no longer take priority over backward techs.
• Redundant achievement freezes have been removed.
• Fixed an issue where characters would transform into hit-boxes while art was still streaming. Instead, they briefly turn into de-resed versions of their normal art. Mike Z describes it as “looking all eight bit.”
• Assist inputs are now more lenient.
• Assists can now be called six frames before you can normally act.
• LP+HK and LK+HP are now assist 1 commands for pad players.
• Double jumps no longer cancel their momentum when put into pre-block.
• Menus now wrap.
• Online performance has been tweaked to avoid slowdown on bad connections.
• Glitches involving the game freezing when choosing to change stage have been removed.
• PS3 matchmaking has been altered. Matchmaking is now more lenient. Only three tiers are available.
• New regions are available for matchmaking.
• Save data corruption has been fixed.
• New training mode options and in-game move-lists are planned.
• US vs. EU crashes have been fixed.

Cerebella

• Excellabella is now easier to input on the custom assist menu.
• Merry Go-Rilla does the correct ratio of damage as an assist now.
• Excellabella’s range has been increased.
• QCB+LP might be added as a secondary motion for her projectile reflect.
• Glitches involving a snap back hitting an armored move have been fixed.
• 360 protection now applies to double jumps so you can spin the stick in the middle of a jump in order to throw when you hit the ground.
• Cerebella’s run throw no longer whiffs on crouching Valentine.
• Fixed a problem where Cerebella’s run throw would occasionally push back the opponent much further than it was supposed to.

Double

• No longer gains meter while Catelite Lives is active.
• Hornet Bomber H no longer has invincibility on start-up.
• All versions of Hornet Bomber now cause techable knockdown. (Mike Z made a point several times to say that he personally thinks that the Hornet Bomber changes are unnecessary but he is being forced to make them.)
• Jumping HP now causes 27 frames of hit-stun down from 37 frames.
• MK followup and HK have both slowed down by 3 frames each and have slightly less hit-stun
• Nightmare Legion (Lvl 3) is 2 frames slower on startup.
• Nightmare Legion’s animation is faster.
• Nightmare Legion knocks you in the opposite direction after it completes.
• Nightmare Legion now causes techable knockdown.
• Nightmare Legion’s damage has been reduced.
• Nightmare Legion no longer stops when an opponent dies in the middle of it.
• Double is no longer invulnerable during Nightmare Legion.

Filia

• Air Hair Ball can now be negative edged.

Ms. Fortune

• Ms. Fortune’s head flies approximately a screen’s length away from you after OMNOMNOM. This happens both when the move ends and when the opponent is hit out of it. It will always fly in the direction opposite of the nearest corner.
• Mike Z said another OMNOMNOM change will be made but it is not implemented yet.
• The last hits of Headless Furserker Purrage now hits all crouching characters.
• Rekka timing is now more lenient.
• Bugs involving strange head movement after death have been fixed.

Peacock

• Input window for her level 3 is now more lenient
• Teleport now has three more frames of recovery

Parasoul

• Tear explosions now scale correctly based on ratio.
• Tears now do damage to Marie.
• Blockstun from tear explosions are now three frames shorter.

Painwheel

• Minimum damage on Buer Thresher has been tweaked.
• Painwheel’s tag in no longer starts you at combo stage 1.
• Spin-Dash’s move input has been changed to hold down, mash kicks. It activates when 4 kick buttons are hit within 35 frames. It can be pianoed.
• Spin-Dash can be canceled with a punch button.
• Painwheels forward heavy kick command normal now has a shorter window for followups.

Valentine

• Flatliner no longer stops when an opponent is killed in the middle of it
• Flatliner no longer interacts with assists or Ms. Fortune’s head
• Level 3 is now faster.
• The animation of Level 3 can be skipped by holding punch.
• Green (stun) poison wears off more quickly when the opponent is in hit-stun. Makes it harder to do extended poison combos. Removes many combo options along with IPS change.

UberPrinny_Baal

Sairus wrote: »

[*] The last hits of Headless Furserker Purrage now hits all crouching characters.

Just noticed this move name now.

Brilliant!

Doctor DooM

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Just noticed this move name now.

Brilliant!

Although you don't see it in the game, Parasoul's sister mentions she has a move called the "sonic boobs".

Sairus

MikeZ was on UltraChen TV again last night and he mentioned a few more changes. I haven't watched it yet, but Cerebella got a damage nerf

I asked about it on SRK:

He did mention is on UltraChen, it applied to her medium and heavy normals and I think he said it ranges from 25-75 reduced damage on the moves.

It was also mentioned that the patch might be coming in June at some point.

Sairus

The UltraChen TV version was actually a newer build from the one the last batch of changes were from. Again, these changes aren't final.
It's been updated as such:

General Changes

• Five frame leniency buffer has been added for chains, allowing you to do combos with “marvel timing.”
• The second player can now config buttons in in training mode and the options menu.
• Holding down buttons no longer locks inputs in button config.
• As long as the second player has hit one button in button config, button config won’t close for them when another play chooses “accept”.
• Air normals and air command normals are now counted as the same move in the iPS.
• Mike Z said the IPS changes has reduced everyone’s maximum damage output by 1,500-2,000.
• Mike Z hopes the patch will come out mid-June though the date is not official.

Double

• Hornet Bomber causes untechable knockdown again.
• Hornet Bomber bounces you lower than it used to. It still lets you follow up with a combo but it’s more likely that you will use up your OTG.
• Hornet Bomber cancel window has been reduced.
• Double’s first medium kick has been slowed by one frame.

Ms. Fortune

• Rekkas can no longer be canceled into head recall

Peacock

• Meter gain on GARBAGE DAY has been normalized. Now builds a third of what it used to.
• Peacock gains a third of the meter she usually would when charging an item drop.
• Peacock’s teleport now ends closer to the opponent than it used to.
• Peacock’s teleport is now four frames slower on recovery, but starts up faster.

Cerebella

• Cerebella has received an across the board damage nerf. Her basic combos do about 1,500-2,000 damage less.
• Jumping MP knocks you down further than it used to. j.MP-j.MK no longer works in the corner.

Parasoul

• Nothing else has been changed since the last build.

Valentine

• Valentine’s jumping hard punch now knocks you higher in the air

Painwheel

• The tweak to Buer Thresher’s damage scaling has been returned to normal
• Painwheel’s new Lightning Legs style pinion dash can be chosen as a custom assist by pressing down and two kicks.

Filia

• Trajectory on the first hit of Fenrir Drive has been slightly changed. It can now DHC out of EKG Flatliner.
• Fenrir Drive has been given slightly more recovery.

Sairus

WNF had Skullgirls this time around. Some fairly funny commentary because they have clearly never even seen the game played before. "Wha? Did Fillia just Mega Crash? Was that some sort of burst?"

http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/319181334

Highlight is definitely the MikeZ v Thoth match (1:36:30). Z loses to random supers and gets mad salty.

Also, after watching some of those stupid Cerebella combos I can totally get behind a damage nerf. That **** is ridiculous.

cr.lp > cr.mp > cr.hp > j > j.mp > j.hk > cr.lp > c.hp > Reset > Grab Bag .

40% damage in 1v1.

Sairus

MikeZ just started up a thread on SRK asking for people's opinions on adding a 3% speed increase to Skullgirls in the upcoming patch.

He mentions that this wouldn't really affect inputs a whole lot, but you'd notice the difference movement-wise. Comparatively he mentions GG is about 3% faster than current Skullgirls.

He also mentions that the difference between Turbo 1 and Turbo 2 in HDR is about 3% if you want to give the speeds a test toast.

I like how the first announcement of this patch was "Not going to rebalance the game, just fixing some bugs" and now it's come to "game speed increase, damage nerfs and IPS modified"

Opinions?

I'm fairly happy with the speed the game is now, but in general I like faster movement speeds so I'd be curious to see what it looks like on tonights Wednesday Night Fights.

GorySnake

Not too sure about the speed change, its not a huge difference but I'm fine with it the way it is now. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Fergus_

Painwheel is BROKEN!

Sairus

All concept of no balancing in the first patch have gone completely out the window it seems! :pac:
Peacock's changes in the patch:

- Slightly reduce meter gain for connecting with Bang shots, HP cannonball, and all Georges.
(Mike elaborated on this as saying it takes 100 units to build a meter, she will now gain 4 units less for every three successful Bang shots)

- Overall meter gain reduced to ⅓ while holding a Shadow of Impending Doom.

- Redistribute damage for Argus Agony: ~300 lower unscaled damage, same minimum damage (on average, subject to randomness).

- Lenny damage 3000->3800, chip 650->800.

- Lenny fix: DHC window is the same but it is no longer possible for a DHC to be “too early” and result in the bomb not being created. Placement and explosion timing unchanged.

- Teleport now recovers 4f more slowly, starts up 3f faster; still vulnerable for 2f at the start; able to be supercanceled 3f earlier during recovery; fake teleport startup and recovery unchanged.

- All Lv1 items will always OTG in the proper direction, towards Peacock. Accomplished by allowing the Jippo bottle to be flipped (oppiJ!). Any Lv2 and Lv3 items which always face the same direction may still knock them the wrong way as OTGs, so be careful.

- Argus Agony hitbox extended closer to Peacock, no longer whiffs up close vs standing Painwheel or vs random other close attacks.

- LP and MP Bang! hitboxes extended back toward Peacock to prevent them from whiffing up close in certain circumstances.

- LP and MP versions of Bang! carry over their specific invincibilities (LP invincible to hits, MP to throws) through the entire active portion, as opposed to just the first active frame. First 2f of both moves are still fully vulnerable.

- HP BANG! shots do 33 more chip (300 total for three shots -> 400 total, or to look at that differently, at base dmg 48 triple shots to kill by chip -> 36 now, same as mashed Viper Beams.)

- Item drop chip increase: Lv1 150->200, Lv2 250->300, Lv3 400->500.

- Argus Agony small lasers +2f hitstun to prevent certain patterns from allowing the opponent to recover and retaliate. Blockstun unchanged.

- Window on connecting level 3 is wider.

GorySnake

Is there a full list of these new changes?

Sairus

GorySnake wrote: »

Is there a full list of these new changes?

I don't know. I just post em whenever I see Mike makes a list on SRK. There's a good chance I've missed some.

Sairus

Some more stuff. Training mode is getting a nice wee buff.

Current training mode added options:
- Input Display (List / Realtime Stick / Both)
- Select Button function (Save+Load State / Dummy Record+Playback / Both At Once)
- Dummy Action (Manual / Crouch / Jump)
- Blocking (Never / After First Hit / Always / First Hit Only / Random)
- Block Type (High / Low / All)
- Pushblock (Never / After Anywhere From 1 to 10 Blocked Hits)
- Pushblock How Often (Once / Always)
- Throw Tech (Never / Always / After First Hit / Random)
- Ground Tech (Never / Forward / Backward / Random Dir)
- Escape Infinite Combos (Never / After Anywhere From 1 to 10 Burstable Hits)
- Dummy Playback (Once / Repeat / As Reversal)
- Dummy Playback Side Correction: Choose whether the dummy recording is treated as relative directions (D,DB,B) or absolute directions (Down,Down-Left,Left) when the dummy changes sides.

You can see it in action here at 42:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEb6Qay9-Po

The Dummy Playback as Reversal is very neat.

Sairus

Mike goes through a bunch of changes here: http://www.twitch.tv/themixup/b/320313767

At 4:20 in he goes through the new color palettes we get free in the patch - 3 freebies for each character including a seriously badass Sentinel Painwheel. Amurica Cerebella's also pretty hype. Might finally get Doyler playing.

Also, zomg, move list is shown.

Jaysus, they added green floor bounce sparks for random assist knockdowns now in addition to techable and non-techables. This is a friggin massive patch.

You get a sort of blurry look at the new version of the hitbox glitch at 52:30. Now your people go all pixelly instead of hitboxy.

I'll stop chain posting now :pac:

GorySnake

Sentinel Painwheel, Zero Suit Parasoul and Neapolitan Double. Best colours.

UberPrinny_Baal

Sairus wrote: »

I'll stop chain posting now :pac:

As the Skullgirls Official Rep, it is your duty to keep chain posting!

Sairus

Skullgirls on PC:

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SKULLGIRLS/skullgirls

They have a date listed as July 2012, but that's a placeholder date according to Ravidrath:

Those are just placeholder.

July is possible, but not confirmed.

With the PC drop, different retailers are getting different Pre-order color packs. GamersGate is getting Parasoul:



Megurine Luka (Vocaloid), Kula (KoF), Jessica Rabbit and no idea for the last one.

Yeah, each retailer will get a pre-order bonus color pack. They'll all be purchasable on all the services, though, so it's really more like a $1 off if you like that character, than an exclusive or anything.

We plan to release all the color packs on PSN and XBLA the week after the patch hits, BTW.

Also, as a thanks for everyone's patience, we're giving everyone three new colors for every character with the patch, too.

Sairus

Mike Z coming out fairly badass for the EVO side tourney:

Evo tourney will be held on a special version of the game that I am making just for you all.
It'll have Tournament Mode, the hitbox glitch 'fix', the DHC freeze fix, and the coming-in-backward fix. Nothing else should be different from the shipped game.

Fixing glitches but leaving the balance as it is since the patch won't be out in time. Fairly great little gesture.

Sairus

The full, massive patch list can be seen here: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads%2Fsg-slightly-different-edition-patch-notes.163719%2F

Sounds like it might already be gone for certification and be available in two weeks.

UberPrinny_Baal

Sairus wrote: »

The full, massive patch list can be seen here: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads%2Fsg-slightly-different-edition-patch-notes.163719%2F

Sounds like it might already be gone for certification and be available in two weeks.

That's an amazing changelist.

Tournament mode sounds like a really clever way to bypass that "unlocking" stigma fighters have. I've always thought unlocking stuff was fun, but for tournament logistics it's a bollocks (I'm looking at you Smash Bros Brawl); and I could never think of a good compromise.

But Mike Z just says "Bitches! While tournament mode is active, everything that isn't paid DLC is temp-unlocked! Duh!"

Even though I don't have a lot of time to play it, and don't really intend to pick up Skullgirls seriously; I feel like at this point I HAVE to buy it so I can send Mike Z a message via money.

"I approve this attitude!"

K.O.Kiki

Now hurry up with the new girls, Mike Z!

Sairus

Oh, so you think just because I don't live in the country anymore or have an internet connection that I'm going to stop posting about Skullgirls? Riiiiight.

Ravidrath, the PR guy for Reverge, chimed in on the status of the long awaited patch:

Hey, everyone.

Sorry I've been incommunicado for so long, but... there hasn't been a lot to discuss. Things have been strange, and all will become clear in time.

I can now say, however, that the patch has been submitted to Konami for testing!

Not going to guess how long it will take for it to get through Konami and Sony/MS, but... there is an end in sight, at long last.

Thanks for your continued patience and support, everyone.

Mike Z has mentioned recently that apparently there's been issues getting the funding together from the various companies involved to get the patch out the door. Whether or not this means they did get the funding together at last, or it's going to be packaged along with the first DLC character (since they should be coming out soonish) is unknown.

Yreval

Latest developments regarding the patch: http://shoryuken.com/2012/09/04/skullgirls-mike-z-unveils-new-move-properties-and-patch-revision/

Some weirdness with Valentine's Mortuary Drop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzVtzMeknrI

Sairus

Ravidrath - the PR guy from Reverge chimes in again:

..And we're still working on the patch, of course.

Most of the programming and tech bugs seem to be out of the way now, so I'm mostly cleaning up localization bugs now that Konami's beating on the FIGS versions. There are lot of those, since we added all-new character tutorials and completely relocalized the FIGS tutorials so they aren't unfollowable gibberish any more.

Also, I can't announce it officially who it is yet, but... a contract with a Japanese publisher was finalized this week!

They really do care about lil ol me!

Yreval

http://shoryuken.com/2012/10/01/skullgirls-patch-updated-mike-z-covers-changes-at-salty-cupcakes/

More changes:

Ms. Fortune Changes

• Ms. Fortune’s Head Spike No Longer Causes a ground bounce. It now causes a knockdown. You have to use your OTG to combo after it.
• Ms. Fortune can now DP Head Sneeze with her head on after her aerial super, during the final pose. This detaches her head.
• Ms. Fortune’s head no longer hits in the air after a rekka slide, forcing you to use an OTG.
• Ms. Fortune’s rekkas have most of their damage concentrated into the last hit now. First two hits do far less damage.
• Ms. Fortune’s rekkas cannot be changed in strength mid chain. All rekkas that start with a light will be light rekkas, with a medium medium rekkas, so on so forth.

Other Changes

• Added pushblock, ground tech, DHC, and infinite breaker tutorials. Also added next lesson function.
• Solo characters now have 210% life and do 160% damage, changed from 200/175.
• Overall damage scaling has been changed.100,100,100, 85^2, 85^3… to minimum of 15 percent or 25 percent for hard hits, now up to 100,100,100 87.5^2,87.5^3… down to 20% for light hits and 27.5% for hard hits.
• How you input macros have been changed. When you have set all your other buttons you cannot swap them into macros. That way you can simply scroll to a macro slot and start pressing buttons. Your macro buttons can only be swapped between buttons that haven’t been assigned for basic inputs.
• Painwheel can now choose different strengths of pinion dash for her assist. Selecting with down down light gets you an uncharged version. Down down medium gets you a level 3 charge and down down heavy gets you a level 5 charge but Painwheel needs to go through the charge time after she comes on screen.

Sairus

Ravidrath popped up again on NeoGaf with some not concrete news, both good and bad.

You all still haven't finished the freaking patch yet? Well, indie developers gotta indie

It's nearly complete - bug testing/fixing with Konami should be ending any day now, and then it'll be submitted to MS/Sony. If all goes well there, I think it should be out in around 2 weeks.

Whatever happened to Skull Girls coming out on Steam?

It's still being worked on, but has been delayed for the same reasons the patch was.

We're hoping to get it out this year, but we can't promise anything... we're always running into unforeseen circumstances, some of which will be made clear when the patch hits.

It's interesting that Mike is displaying new patch additions, but the patch is still in testing at Konami. I'm guessing that all the Konami testing is due to the new localizations, tutorials and core game code changes, but they're allowed to layer on slight character patches that don't need extensive internal testing.

Big shame with the delayed PC release, but at least they're being fairly straight about it.

Yreval

http://shoryuken.com/2012/10/12/skullgirls-mike-z-reveals-color-dlc-details-new-snap-back-otg-mechanics-and-pre-match-character-switching-at-salty-cupcakes/

Another update on the patch:

• Every character has an eighteenth color now. These colors are “gift colors” that unlock if you buy all the color DLC packs for the entire cast, as a thanks for supporting the game. Valentine’s color 18 is based off Kasumi from Dead or Alive. Parasoul’s color 18 is the Justin Bailey pallette from the original Metroid while her umbrella is a metroid itself.
• Purchasing a color pack automatically unlocks all the basic unlockable colors (colors 7-10) for the character you purchase it for. Purchasing Valentine or Double’s color pack will automatically unlock their story mode.
• You can now hold an assist command to switch your point character before a match starts. Holding assist one switches it to character one. Holding assist two switches it to character two. Holding both assist commands swaps the order of your assists. The new character order stays between matches but resets if you go back to character select.
• Landing a snap-back on a character now gives you back an OTG. This makes double snaps easier and gives you more reasons to snap-back a single character.
• The dead character snap-out resurrection glitch has been fixed.
• Cerebella’s reflect is now no longer minus on hit. It’s now even on hit, and combos when canceled into her level 3.
• According to Mike, one of the reasons that the patch is being delayed is that Konami continues to find problems in the Spanish language version of it. When asked about when the patch will be ready he said, “The patch will be ready for the public as soon as they stop finding really dumb problems with it. In other words, I don’t even know anymore.” As long as he needs to continue sending builds he can continue altering game mechanics.
• The framework for PS3/PC cross-play has already been added to the game. If/when the PC version comes out it should be doable.

Sairus

Yreval wrote: »

Another update on the patch:

• According to Mike, one of the reasons that the patch is being delayed is that Konami continues to find problems in the Spanish language version of it. When asked about when the patch will be ready he said, “The patch will be ready for the public as soon as they stop finding really dumb problems with it. In other words, I don’t even know anymore.” As long as he needs to continue sending builds he can continue altering game mechanics.

From what I've heard from European players a lot of the localizations were complete garbage. One French player said he had no idea what most of the tutorials were asking him to do because of the Google Translate quality of the translation. I assume this is them trying to fix them?

Also, that Reflect > Lvl 3 with Cerebella is nice. She can't really do anything with that reflector other than close some very minor distance if the reflect hits. Everyone shakes out of the stagger way too quick to actually punish with it at 3/4 or full screen.