Burglar cut off artist's fingers...

Dudess

Well whether his tendencies are a result of a psychiatric disorder or whether he's just a vicious lowlife.

Dyr

Dudess wrote: »

Well whether his tendencies are a result of a psychiatric disorder or whether he's just a vicious lowlife.

Its possible to be both. I find it funny how we seem to be willing to basically hand the judicial system over the psychiatric services. The c**t knew what he was doing and knew it was wrong...case closed, pull the lever, drop the trap door and no one else looses their fingers.

Stiffler2

Just cut his hands off and release him into the public again.
That way my tax money won't have to pay for his xBox online renewal in the Joy nor will he be able to stab anyone anymore.

What's he gonna do ? break into someone's house and stump them ??

Dudess

You don't know for certain that he was of rational mind when he did it - maybe he was though, in which case, very ****ing scary! :eek:
The deal with putting people in the psych hospital is they're too much of a danger to other inmates in a prison. I wouldn't say it's to do with special treatment or anything.

Uriel.

Plautus wrote: »

16 years is not a miniscule sentence and is at the upper range of sentencing for something like aggravated burglary.

Personally, I don't think 16 years is minuscule considering the life sentence he has inflicted on his numerous victims

Latchy

What a savage , horrific attack .The mind boggles as to how this guy was let out to carry on where he left off .

Johnny D. Mudd

I was horrified the first time I heard the details of this crime and reading this still horrifies me. The intent to commit such a heinous crime was obviously there as he took the time to cut her and this to my mind shows sociopathic tendencies. Now I know 16 years is quite a long time to wait to get out but keep in mind that when this man does get out, he'll be at most 51 years old (not taking into consideration possible parole) and will still be fit enough to commit this type of crime again.

You can say what you want about the sentence fitting the crime but surely mitigating factors such as intent, prior history and the consequences of the actions on the victim should be taken into account when sentencing is given. This man showed not only intent to rob but intent to kill by butchering that woman and chopping off fingers, he has a prior history of brutal violence and the woman will now need to live the rest of her life without some of her fingers (which will wreck her career as an artist) or with prosthetic fingers.

Surely in lieu of sentencing, the judge in this case should consider this man's violent history and see that he clearly has no remorse, cannot be rehabilitated and will remain a danger to society in general. Surely then a stiffer sentence or even one that takes the part of that man's life that matters should be employed.

AnnyHallsal

On the issue of liberals:

I'm as liberal as they come on as most issues, but am disgusted by the leniency of the criminal justice system in Ireland. I'm a liberal who believes in the punishment of crime: both as a deterrent, and even as a kind of vengeance.

So to those bashing "liberal do gooders", it's a generalisation.

This is a sickening story. There is no excuse. I hope the victim recovers well, and prospers. Glad to hear she's been married since.

Johnny D. Mudd

AnnyHallsal wrote: »

On the issue of liberals:

I'm as liberal as they come on as most issues, but am disgusted by the leniency of the criminal justice system in Ireland. I'm a liberal who believes in the punishment of crime: both as a deterrent, and even as a kind of vengeance.

So to those bashing "liberal do gooders", it's a generalisation.

This is a sickening story. There is no excuse. I hope the victim recovers well, and prospers. Glad to hear she's been married since.

I agree with you on this one, this kind of punishment is a more formal form of vengeance, it takes one part of a persons life in compensation for the part lost by their victim. So surely the price paid by the criminal should match that lost by the victim(s). Now it's never easy to put such a theory into practice, especially with mitigating circumstances and factors to consider, but surely a near enough price should be paid so that in some form or another, the victim has been compensated. Unfortunately, when a vicious stab-frenzy merits a 4-year-sentence, the victim can never be compensated.

AnnyHallsal

Johnny D. Mudd wrote: »

I agree with you on this one, this kind of punishment is a more formal form of vengeance, it takes one part of a persons life in compensation for the part lost by their victim. So surely the price paid by the criminal should match that lost by the victim(s). Now it's never easy to put such a theory into practice, especially with mitigating circumstances and factors to consider, but surely a near enough price should be paid so that in some form or another, the victim has been compensated. Unfortunately, when a vicious stab-frenzy merits a 4-year-sentence, the victim can never be compensated.

The four year stabbing sentence is really shocking. Overcrowding, presumably, and being broke must be partially responsible for the pathetic sentences serious crimes are given here.

mickydoomsux

Was reading about this case today.

As per usual the guy had numerous prior convictions including stabbing two people multiple times.

Why do we even bother any more, there's no such thing as rehabilitation for his kind? This guy will get out again in a few years and do the same kind of thing again. Some people are just worthless. Lock him up for the rest of his days so he can't harm anyone else. He's a useless, dangerous individual who needs to be segregated from the rest of society until he drops dead.

HicksLennon

Millicent wrote: »

Eh... sounds suspiciously like you'd be there with the torch. :pac:

It is horrible to think he will re-offend. And I'm almost sure he will. Hopefully, a psychological test can determine if he needs treatment for mental health issues, and if not, that he can be rehabilitated in jail. I doubt either is a real option though.

I like your comment...
I think it's funny how we debate whether this guy has mental health issues?? Anyone who commits a crime like this in my opinion has serious mental health issues... i really hate the society definition of mental health... so you have to be in a straight jacket throwing your crap before you are officially classed as mentally ill... i don't accept that there are just cruel people like this, born cruel... the guy is completely screwed up and the result is this... An absolute tragedy... as for what to do with him.. i don't know... very hard to know

Dudess

AnnyHallsal wrote: »

On the issue of liberals:

I'm as liberal as they come on as most issues, but am disgusted by the leniency of the criminal justice system in Ireland. I'm a liberal who believes in the punishment of crime: both as a deterrent, and even as a kind of vengeance.

So to those bashing "liberal do gooders", it's a generalisation.

People who blurt out tripe like that don't know what they're talking about and don't deserve your explanation. All their talk about people who believe the guy shouldn't be punished because he had a hard life - they're pulling it out of their arses and would be hard pushed to find an example of one such person.
Most if not all people are going to believe the guy should be punished - not everyone thinks he should be tortured though. This doesn't make them bleeding heart liberals, just non dribblers.

HavingCrack

Why didn't he get a life (as in die in prison) sentence? It is actually permissible under law.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0004.html#zza26y1997s4

mickydoomsux

HavingCrack wrote: »

Why didn't he get a life (as in die in prison) sentence? It is actually permissible under law.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0004.html#zza26y1997s4

Because Irish judges are liberal fools.

AnnyHallsal

mickydoomsux wrote: »

He's a useless, dangerous individual who needs to be segregated from the rest of society until he drops dead.

This is the issue for me.

Dudess wrote: »

People who blurt out tripe like that don't know what they're talking about and don't deserve your explanation. All their talk about people who believe the guy shouldn't be punished because he had a hard life - they're pulling it out of their arses and would be hard pushed to find an example of one such person.
Most if not all people are going to believe the guy should be punished - not everyone thinks he should be tortured though. This doesn't make them bleeding heart liberals, just non dribblers.

I don't think he should be tortured either. Just a good, long sentence until we come up with a better way of punishing/treating these people.

The question is: is rehabilitation possible?

I do believe, if you do something truly horrible to another human being, you deserve to be punished. Should you be given a chance to prove you won't do it again? Not sure.

Johnny D. Mudd

AnnyHallsal wrote: »

The four year stabbing sentence is really shocking. Overcrowding, presumably, and being broke must be partially responsible for the pathetic sentences serious crimes are given here.

That sentence is baffling. Such problems as overcrowding are almost certainly responsible for the reluctance of judges to met out proper sentences that fit the crime. Of course it could be stated that the reason for overcrowding is due in no small terms to the excessive imprisoning of small-time offenders whose crimes are as small as not paying TV licenses. Yes they are all crimes but there are serious crimes and lesser crimes which go against the law and yet which leaves no lasting trauma on victims, crimes for which warnings are sufficient.

Dyr

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Why do we even bother any more, there's no such thing as rehabilitation for his kind? This guy will get out again in a few years and do the same kind of thing again. Some people are just worthless.

I'll nick a great line from an american cop "you can't rehabilitate someone who was never habilitated in the first place" :pac:

AnnyHallsal

I'm not buying the argument that lenient sentencing occurs because our judges are "liberal fools". Our judges are wealthy members of the elite, endorsed by the political and legal hierarchy of the day, unlikely to be 'radical' in any way. I doubt their personal ideological orientation has anything to do with sentencing, and I doubt that ideology would be 'liberal' anyway.

Latchy

The thing is now it has become the norm now to hear that somebody who commits horrific crimes as such has previous convictions for same ...so many now it's sometimes hard to keep up . When you read again of sombody who phones police to say her recently released from prison husband / boyfriend is coming to get her but is ignored , untill she and sometimes her children are found battered to death , you know the judiciary have got it wrong again .

charlemont

TheUsual wrote: »

charlemont wrote: »

Lots of people involved in gang or particularly gruesome murders will be inside till at least 20 years./QUOTE]

Not true.

Show me someone who has been convicted of a gangland murder i.e. Cotton Eye Delaney who has been convicted since the late 90's who has been released on license ??

deandean

Remember that nutter Brendan O'Donnell, he met his maker in the Dundrum Looney bin:

"Brendan O'Donnell was sentenced to the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum, where he later died from an overdose of an anti-psychotic drug "....

So let's send Mr Finger chopper to Dundrum where he'll be emasculated with powerful drugs, then after a respectable time (e.g. 12 months) the dose can be accidentially upped 10-fold.

marcsignal

solved :mad:

Latchy

marcsignal wrote: »

solved :mad:

Great...all we need now is the concentration camp to go with it .

No1J

charlemont wrote: »

TheUsual wrote: »

Show me someone who has been convicted of a gangland murder i.e. Cotton Eye Delaney who has been convicted since the late 90's who has been released on license ??

Thought he died, nasty bastard, gave me the stare down and a load of guff one night, F'd off when it was put up to him, greasy hairy old git.

marcsignal

Latchy wrote: »

Great...all we need now is the concentration camp to go with it .

Lease an industrial unit from NAMA

JONJO THE MISER

Plautus wrote: »

No, there is no reasonable argument I've heard of that says Mr. zenno gets to exact blood feud as a law unto himself whenever he or his family are slighted, injured or killed. It's a nasty little 'system' of justice that is brimming with emotion, can't be trusted to ensure only the guilty are punished and which is motivated by revenge and not the welfare of society at large.

Crime is decreasing, the vast majority of people won't encounter serious crime in their life-time and vigilantism really is stupid. Do you think you're really so original? Law has endured in some form for thousands of years. It's on no verge of breakdown in Ireland, and we're long since past tit for tat.

Make-believe is the land where most people wanting to castrate offenders are living.

Perfect example of a person living in a cloud cuckoo land bubble.
Crime is decreasing, show me the stats?
Come on bright spark show me the stats where crime is decreasing year on year in Ireland.

JONJO THE MISER

Caricatures by Mark Heng wrote: »

I think enough people in Ireland are fed up with these lenient sentences. It's time for a national movement to change the laws to be much tougher on violent crime. 16 years for something like this seems ludicrous.

Exactly we have too many left wing bleeding heart types in this county, if there was any justice all his fingers should of been cut off and then sentence to life without parole.

bradlente

The left/right argument going on in here between some people is pointless in my eyes.

It's fair to say everyone thats clicked in here agrees the 1st sentence was a complete and utter farce and that cruel crimes like these should have much harsher punishments than some crimes they're on a par with jail-time wise.

We're all better off quitting the political slagging match,imo It can distract people from the victim and the brutal crime that it was.

Regardless of how you personally think he should be punished,We can all agree that what he got initially is not near enough and I think we can all agree prison reform is needed.

Dudess

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Caricatures by Mark Heng wrote: »

I think enough people in Ireland are fed up with these lenient sentences. It's time for a national movement to change the laws to be much tougher on violent crime. 16 years for something like this seems ludicrous.

Exactly we have too many left wing bleeding heart types in this county, if there was any justice all his fingers should of been cut off and then sentence to life without parole.

Give one example? Otherwise maybe put some thought in instead of the usual tedious and meaningless soundbites?

dr.bollocko

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Exactly we have too many left wing bleeding heart types in this county, if there was any justice all his fingers should of been cut off and then sentence to life without parole.

You have no idea who you're even angry with any more.

Dudess

bradlente wrote: »

The left/right argument going on in here between some people is pointless in my eyes.

It's fair to say everyone thats clicked in here agrees the 1st sentence was a complete and utter farce and that cruel crimes like these should have much harsher punishments than some crimes they're on a par with jail-time wise.

We're all better off quitting the political slagging match,imo It can distract people from the victim and the brutal crime that it was.

Regardless of how you personally think he should be punished,We can all agree that what he got initially is not near enough and I think we can all agree prison reform is needed.

It's only ever the imbecilic likes of "You're a leftie bleeding heart" whatever that gets blurted out though, extremely rarely do you see "You're a right-wing fascist" whatever. Probably because those who disagree with the knee-jerk responses are more capable of acknowledging you can't define a person's ideology based on one view.

Contra Proferentem

There needs to be serious questions asked about how this guy was only given a four year sentance for a very similar serious assault, in which he stabbed a man who made his escape, and then turned on that man's wife and stabbed her ten times.

It's truly frightening when someone has so little fear of the consequences of their actions that he/she attacks a defenceless victim of a burgalry who poses absolutely no threat and has no intention of posing a threat.

He should have been put away for 16 years on the first occassion. But I suppose we're lucky, a life sentance is about 8 years, so for an greivious assault this guy is getting the equivilent of two life sentances!

LeeHoffmann

WHAT THE **** CAN WE DO ABOUT THIS???

When people say that all we do is complain and shout "Rise up against this bullshyte" on boards.ie and do nothing in real life, I want to ask where the feck do I start? I don't know anything about the judiciary system other than it being a worthless ball of shyte.

Who can we email or call? Whoever we just elected - can they do anything about this?

anybody got an answer to this?

mcmoustache

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

anybody got an answer to this?

Not much you can do, I'm afraid, unless you're prepared to take things into your own hands.

If an incident happens in your home, you have the right to defend yourself using reasonable force. This includes lethal force if you have a reasonable assumption that your life is in danger.

What incidents like the one being discussed here demonstrate is that some burglars are very violent people who are not just going to take your tv and go. At night with an intruder in your home, there is no way to know the difference. This, I think, gives the property owner a reasonable justification to swing a potentially lethal baseball bat to the head of an unsuspecting burglar.

If it turns out that the dead burglar was some 16 year old trying to take the car keys, how was the owner to know? How would he know that it was a kid and how would he know that there was no violent intent? Cases like the one here show that one cannot take the chance.

The most sensible choice when confronting a burglar, in my opinion, is not to turn the lights on thus keeping the essential element of surprise as well as also providing plausible ignorance as to the nature of the burglary. Then when the opportunity arises either from an ambush on the stairs or sneaking up on the burglar, make your move.

My reason for this is that letting the burglar know that you are there is no garauntee that he'll just run. There is a real risk that you'll be assaulted as seen from countless cases. It makes no sense to let the burglar know that he has been spotted. The rational thing to do, then, is to subdue him by surprise since this gives you the advantage. In reality you get one shot and you need to make it count otherwise you have an angry burglar on your hands who will probably more used to violence than you.

This could end up killing them but I'm not sure that you could ever be charged, let alone convicted of manslaughter for a fatal bat to the head of a burglar in the dark while in fear of your and your family's life.

Zulu

I'm not advocating violence, but I'd suggest that you'd be better off staying either upstairs, or in your bedroom/child’s bedroom.

If any defence ever had to be made, I'd suggest the courts would look far more favourably on the person cornered in their room defending their spouse/children, than the commando stalking the burglar in the dark.

Personally the stair is my cut off. The car keys are on the bottom step. Take them if you must, but if you're coming upstairs, you're only coming up to attack my family, and I'll rot in a cell if I have to, but I won't let anyone harm them on my watch.

Omackeral

Well Mr. James Kenny, it seems, has been on the receiving end of Jail Justice. Yesterday in Mountjoy Prison he was set upon by a group of inmates who gave him a beating. Kenny was taken to the Mater Hospital after prison staff intervened.

There is a somewhat distorted totem pole when it comes to who is a scumbag and who isn't inside the four walls. Child molesters, rapists and women bashers are fair game for a hiding while tiger kidnappers and murderers are just Joe Soaps.

My guess is that Kenny will be sent to the Separation Unit or Base of Mountjoy to serve his time on protective custody.

Batsy

As a punishment the burglar should have his fingers cut off.

Omackeral

Originally posted by Batsy

As a punishment the burglar should have his fingers cut off.

This sounds like something savage from The Belgian Congo or a radical Islamic nation that stones women. Get real. Who do you propose cuts his fingers off? Sure then we'd have to have their fingers lobbed off also?

LeeHoffmann

Who can we email or call? Whoever we just elected - can they do anything about this?

@ mcmoustache, thanks but I meant an answer to this ^

Zulu

nah, he should just have to work those fingers of his to the bone repaying his debt to the victim, the criminal justice system & society as a whole.
He personally should be producing the victims electricty for her while in prison. Preferably by turning a wheel every waking minute. A few less bills for her to pay, won't compensate her loss, but at least it'll be something.

raah!

So perhaps it is time for boardsies to band together to instantiate legislative change? My outrage has long since subsided, but if someone were to draft up one of those easy auto e-mails that we need only sign our names to and send then I'm sure everyone will be onboard(s.ie).

bradlente

raah! wrote: »

So perhaps it is time for boardsies to band together to instantiate legislative change? My outrage has long since subsided, but if someone were to draft up one of those easy auto e-mails that we need only sign our names to and send then I'm sure everyone will be onboard(s.ie).

Just make sure you read it in full first.Its AH-There could be some weird sex stuff in there.



:pac:

woodoo

And she is not covered by the HSE to get her prostetic fingers.

But, but Mr Brian Rattigan of Gangland/Murder fame is getting his scar on his lip fixed because of low self esteem issues. He got transported from prison to the hospital by the guards and the army and all paid for by the state.... vomit :mad:

Millicent

woodoo wrote: »

And she is not covered by the HSE to get her prostetic fingers.

What, seriously? Link?

bradlente

woodoo wrote: »

And she is not covered by the HSE to get her prostetic fingers.

But, but Mr Brian Rattigan of Gangland/Murder fame is getting his scar on his lip fixed because of low self esteem issues. He got transported from prison to the hospital by the guards and the army and all paid for by the state.... vomit :mad:

Thats a complete joke.

To repeat raah someone in the know putting one of the those petitions together would be a great idea,What exactly would you put in it though?

"Its a fookin joke,sort it out there.Signed x badonkadonk"

mcmoustache

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

@ mcmoustache, thanks but I meant an answer to this ^

Oh, sorry. My mistake.

In answer to that question, you're fecked. Besides draconian legislative changes, zero tolerance, tough sentencing and a Garda on every corner, there isn't much that can be done by politicians.

The judiciary could come down harder on burglars but they don't seem to have the appetite for that. There is also a lack of prison spaces to consider.

The long and short of it is that the State and it's institutions are in no position to protect you nor are they that bothered to change that. Your best bet for keeping your house safe is a big dog or two.

It's a shame really.

Leftist

Home invasion. Torture tactics. He got (ridiculously only) 4 years for the same thing in 98, proving he is and can be a repeat offender.

Ireland is from top to bottom an incompetant joke.

AnnyHallsal

Leftist wrote: »

Home invasion. Torture tactics. He got (ridiculously only) 4 years for the same thing in 98, proving he is and can be a repeat offender.

Ireland is from top to bottom an incompetant joke.

I would usually hesitate to agree with this kind of generalisation, but it's difficult not to what with recent goings on

Leftist

AnnyHallsal wrote: »

I would usually hesitate to agree with this kind of generalisation, but it's difficult not to what with recent goings on

Ineptitude from top to bottom.

People whinging it's about left wing/right wing. Like you wouldnt' be punished for home invasion & torture in a left wing state.

We don't even have a left wing/right wing questions, we're too simple a society for that. It is sheer inept casualness that has us economically ruined and sentencing people like this to four year sentences or a mere 16 years for mutilation and a second offense.

Our life sentence is 14years, our prison capacity is limited, the judges are a joke.

It's the sure it'll be grand, relax mentality.

a land of uncomplicated morons.