My lodger won't pay her last month's rent and her room smells vile

blackboots

Ok so there are some similar posts but I still can't find one that answers my two questions.

My lodger gave her months notice 1st of March, which is when her rent falls due. She asked if she could use her deposit, which is 1 month's rent. I said no. She has been difficult and unforthcoming about bills in the past and as she is leaving the country I really think she will stiff me for them.

Besides that was not the agreement we had - the deposit is supposed to protect me from damage to the apartment etc. How do I get her to pay the rent or can I ask her to leave earlier.

This girl spends all her time in her room, nothing to do with me, I tried very hard to make her feel welcome, and her room started to smell. It is now so bad that I can smell from the living room with the door closed when she opens her door. She only seems to shower once every few days and she also eats all her meals in her room.

When she gave her notice I asked her to leave her door unlocked so I could show it to people and she said that was fine. I started opening the window wide after she left in the morning and closing it again before she got home - but it's made no difference the room still stinks.

What I did next was kind of bad and I realise that I have probably violated her privacy but I thought it must be coming from something in particular... so I opened her wardrobe door and had a look.

The girl keeps her rubbish in her room?!!! There are about 5 brown paper bags filled with rubbish in the wardrobe all open and full of yogurt cartons and philadelphia cartons and everything. I can't even begin to understand why she would do this - we don't pay bin charges, as it's my apartment I pay the service charges so bin collection is free for her.

So my second question; if she pays her rent, is it reasonable for me to deduct the cost of hiring a steam cleaner from her deposit - I really think it will take something like that to get the smell out of the mattress and carpet.

Honest answers please - I can take them

ricman

Its reasonable to deduct any charges ,re cleaning ,you should get black bags take the rubbish out of the closet.shes causing a health hazard to you and herself ,open the windows while doing the cleaning.I know a landlord who had the exact same problem, she was in her fortys, her rooms was full of old cloths and rubbish.
her behaviour was the same as in your post , she never threw anything out.
it took 5 hours to clean the room.everything had to be replaced ,carpet etc
the purpose of a deposit is to cover extra charges, damage caused by the tenant.
i think you,ll have to buy a new mattress and carpet.
i could nt describe the room, it was a health hazard .

seamus

As said, the purpose of the deposit is to pay for damage and any exceptional costs arising out of the person's rental. Costs arising out of normal wear and tear cannot be deducted from the deposit.

Having to steam clean the carpet would be reasonable wear and tear if the tenant had been there 3 years, but not if they've only been there a year or so.

As she is a lodger in your home, she effectively has no rights in regard to minimum notice period. I would advise you to ask her to pay the rent or leave this weekend. You are entitled to do this. Don't stiff her on the deposit; get any damage or exceptional dirt sorted out, then return what's left to her.

ricman

She wont pay the last months rent, so will there be anything left from the deposit to pay for cleaning costs,you could give her black bags and say remove all the rubbish ,your room is a health hazard.That room needs to be cleaned in the next few days, do it yourself ,or ask her to do it.
you have no privacy ,when it gets to the point where the you are hoarding rubbish.
she has no right to hold onto rubbish inside the room.
Her behavior is dangerous and unreasonable.some people have a compulsion to hoard everything,regardless of any health risk to themselves or others.

blackboots

Hmm - ricman's post is definitely food for thought - she's not that bad yet but I think it's the direction she's headed.

Thanks seamus that's a fair point about steam cleaning being reasonable wear and tear after a few years - this girl has been here only 5 months.

I have no intention of stiffing her on her deposit even though the current stink makes it impossible for me to line up a new lodger. I want to deduct the bills due and hopefully get the mattress clean. That will cost about €60 for the cleaner and my labour will be free.

I think legally I would be within my rights to change the locks this weekend - but the girl is 23 and moving out of the country on 30th March, it will be very hard to find new accomodation. So is there any method of persuasion I could use to get her to pay the rent and avoid any guilty consience?

Also if she pays her rent how bold can I get? If I take out the rubbish from her wardrobe - she'll know I've been in there? My mum said to say I just followed the smell cause it was so bad.

I was also going to change her bedsheets because they haven't been changed for the last 4 months and are adding to the smell - then maybe with some air freshner and an open window I would have a lodger lined up for when she leaves, she has somewhere to stay and everyone's happy.

blackboots

If she doesn't pay rent then I think around the 15th of March her deposit will cease to cover the costs of her rent, the bills and a little cleaning.

So I suppose I could tell her she has until then to pay the rent or I will be changing the locks.

seamus

blackboots wrote: »

I think legally I would be within my rights to change the locks this weekend - but the girl is 23 and moving out of the country on Friday, it will be very hard to find new accomodation. So is there any method of persuasion I could use to get her to pay the rent and avoid any guilty consience?

Not really. All you can really do is say to her tonight to pay you the rent due for this month (or up until she's leaving) or be gone by Sunday evening. I'm sure she has friends; if she's that hard up she can stay with them until she goes home.
Remember that this is your home. She's showing disrespect for you in your own home by not paying her rent, so don't for a second feel guilty about throwing her out "on the streets". You're giving her the option - if she chooses not to pay the rent, then she has chosen to leave, it's not your fault that she may be homeless.
If she decides to leave on Sunday instead of paying rent, then deduct whatever costs you reckon it will take, as well as five days' rent before handing the rest of her deposit back to her. The sooner you're rid of, the better. The last thing you want is her back on your doorstep wondering where her deposit is.

If it does come down to evicting her, remember to have someone else there to back you up - preferably someone who can keep a cool head.

Also if she pays her rent how bold can I get? If I take out the rubbish from her wardrobe - she'll know I've been in there? My mum said to say I just followed the smell cause it was so bad.

If she pays her rent, I'd be inclined to leave her at it tbh, don't go through the hassle of trying to sneak into her room and clean up or wash her sheets. Put up with it till she's gone, then get a mask and some rubber gloves and fumigate the room.

Although it stinks, a weekend of steam cleaning, open windows and febreeze and it'll be ready for renting again.

blackboots

Thanks again guys,

I just got home and again leaving her window open all day has made no difference. Perhaps I should clarify that the room is not a tip, she doesn't have much stuff and if I took a picture of the room it looks fine, it's just the smell, which of course will be left on any fabric like carpets and especially the bedding, I will most probably have to bin the duvet and pillows if not the mattress as well. That and the fact that the wardrobe is full of rubbish.

She gets home around 6.30, so I'm going to ask her about the rent again. If she says she won't pay it then I'll tell her she has to move out. Guess I'll be getting a locksmith on Monday while she's at work?

Kind of nervous - wish me luck

Kosseegan

You shouldn't need a locksmith. Changing locks is simple. Remember change the front door lock as well as the lock of her room. Put all her stuff in black bags and drop them off at her workplace.

HardyEustace

blackboots wrote: »

Thanks again guys,

it's just the smell, which of course will be left on any fabric like carpets and especially the bedding, I will most probably have to bin the duvet and pillows if not the mattress as well. That and the fact that the wardrobe is full of rubbish.

It's very unusual to supply a duvet and pillows to a tenant. I'd just have a mattress cover on the mattress and leave it at that.

Raskolnikov

blackboots wrote: »

I will most probably have to bin the duvet and pillows if not the mattress as well. That and the fact that the wardrobe is full of rubbish.

A mattress is one thing, but you supplied a duvet and bedding too? It's probably too late for the bed clothes at this stage, but never, ever supply a lodger with anything more than a bed, a wardrobe and perhaps a bedside stand.

blackboots wrote: »

She gets home around 6.30, so I'm going to ask her about the rent again. If she says she won't pay it then I'll tell her she has to move out. Guess I'll be getting a locksmith on Monday while she's at work?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

If you illegally evict her without serving her a proper period of notice, she can haul you infront of the PRTB. If that happens, she could win thousands of Euro off you in hardship and expenses that you inflicted on her as a result of an illegal eviction.

blackboots

Thanks Hardy, I realise that now but not much point in closing the proverbial stable door after the the duvet needs to be burned A valid point to make though. I also supplied her with bedsheets because she didn't have any, which she doesn't use properly and has been sleeping on the bare mattress which also makes matters worse. You live, you learn.

The lock doesn't look that easy to change - maybe I'll call my dad.

Also I hope this doesn't put anyone off getting a lodger. The girl I had stay before this one was lovely and we got on great and as soon as I'm rid of this one I will be looking for a new one - perhaps a little more cautiously.

Raskolnikov

Kosseegan wrote: »

You shouldn't need a locksmith. Changing locks is simple. Remember change the front door lock as well as the lock of her room. Put all her stuff in black bags and drop them off at her workplace.

WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT DO THIS. If you do this, and the girl is any big savvy, you will lose thousands of Euro in covering her expenses. This is an illegal eviction and in the case of a judgment, the PRTB will come down heavily in favour of the tenant. To get an idea of some of the settlement sums that landlords have had to pay, see here http://public.prtb.ie/disputes.htm

blackboots

@Rasko
As she is a lodger staying in my home she does not have the same rights as a tenant.
There is much more legislation in place to protect you in your own home. And although a period of notice is advised it is not required and would certainly be less than 1 month for a 5 month stay. There's lots of stuff about it on citizens information website.

It's all a grey area with advice about what you should do and not much about what you must do. That's also why I was asking - what exactly are my obligations?

blackboots

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

Here's the citizen's info site.

What am I obliged to do?

Raskolnikov

Reasonable notice is certainly not entering her room, rifling through her private belongings, bagging them, and then leaving her to find that she is locked out of her room when she comes home from work. Grey area or not, it's a disgusting thing to do to someone who certainly is in the wrong, but not grievously so.

Raskolnikov

blackboots wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

Here's the citizen's info site.

What am I obliged to do?

I was wrong to state that you come under the PRTB - what I do find hard to believe is that you can simply take the law into your own hands on this matter. Have you tried talking to the girl, explaining the predicament that you're in? Have you asked her specifically to address the smell, or to not keep rubbish in her closet?

blackboots

@ Seamas

You said that if she decides to leave on Sunday I should take 5 days rent from her deposit. Can I really do that? Would that be her leaving without reasonable notice?

What if she refuses to leave and I change the locks - I couldn't do that then?

I'm pretty sure it's not something I would do anyway but the legal maze is quite interesting.

blackboots

Rasko - I'm really hoping it doesn't actually come to that. I'm not sure how it's going to go.

I'm going to talk to her tonight and hopefully we can sort it out amicably.

What is certain though is that I am not willing to let her stay until 30th March without paying her months rent and thus opening myself to the risk that she will leave me with her share of the bills. Especially since as I have said nobody will agree to rent a room that smells like hers does. I am not going to try and chase her for loss of rent between her and the next tenant, I would have no right to do that, but since there will definitely be a gap I cannot risk that she will leave me to pay her bills and endure the cost of steam cleaning the upholstery.

slavetothegrind

it's your house, can you not inspect the room in her presence to ascertain the source of the godawful smell. find the rubbish and evict her on heath grounds.
Rediculous to put up with that.
She should at least be apologetic and offer to clean up after herself if she has any self respect at all.
Anyway goodluck, hope you get your rent and have minimum hassle with the crazy rubbish lady.

bath handle

This lodger is not a tenant. Once she breaks the rules under which she has been allowed on the premises she becomes a trespasser. Trespassers who don't leave when they are requested to do so can be frog-marched out the door. Happens in pubs and discos every night of the week. Locking her out and delivering her belongings neatly bagged up is too good for her imo.

Pkiernan

Raskolnikov wrote: »

WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT DO THIS. If you do this, and the girl is any big savvy, you will lose thousands of Euro in covering her expenses. This is an illegal eviction and in the case of a judgment, the PRTB will come down heavily in favour of the tenant. To get an idea of some of the settlement sums that landlords have had to pay, see here http://public.prtb.ie/disputes.htm

More mis-information here, as usual. :rolleyes:

OP, your lodger is just a roommate, not covered by the PRTB and with no right to tenure.

You can take all of her crap, bag it up and leave it outside the door if you wish.

Yawns

Even if she were a tennant you don't need 1 months notice if they have been there less than 6 months. Normal PRTB rules do not apply her as she is renting a room.

Today is the 3rd. She is overdue her rent by 2 days yes?
She is trying to make you use the deposit to cover rent and when she moves she will not care about unpaid bills.

Be nice and polite and have a witness. Give her 1 week to pay or she will be asked to leave. Should she not leave in 1 week, you will have the locks changed.

DO NOT go through her stuff. Put up with the smell. She has given you permission to show the room but not invade her privacy. You will get the place clean again, don't worry. She doesn't have tenancy rights but it's just not right to do it.

After 1 week deduct bills and whatever rent is due up to that date, return what's left of deposit and show her the door. Again have a witness. Not some hot head tho. A nice and cool conversation will do.

Victor

The only thing unreasonable that you have done here is go through her wardrobe.

Talk to her tonight, preferably with someone present on your side.

Raise the issues of:
Rent - if it isn't paid, she is to leave by X date (Sunday?).
Cleaning - ask if you can all inspect the room together, tonight.
Bills - these will need to be paid up to date.
Deposit - she can get this back, subject to any deductions for the above.

convert

Victor wrote: »

The only thing unreasonable that you have done here is go through her wardrobe.

Talk to her tonight, preferably with someone present on your side.

Raise the issues of:
Rent - if it isn't paid, she is to leave by X date (Sunday?).
Cleaning - ask if you can all inspect the room together, tonight.
Bills - these will need to be paid up to date.
Deposit - she can get this back, subject to any deductions for the above.

What Victor said.
As well as having somebody present, I'd also put everything in writing, keeping a copy (and photo) of the document(s) for yourself.

Having lived with some really 'problem' tenants (in house shares) who left without paying bills, I would definitely insist on the tenant paying rent for the last month. That way, if they decide to up and leave you have the deposit to cover any bills and rent they haven't paid.

Hope the 'chat' goes well.

the_syco

Raskolnikov wrote: »

If you illegally evict her without serving her a proper period of notice

She's a lodger. 24 hours can be enough notice. Sounds like she deserves no more, either.

Raskolnikov

Pkiernan wrote: »

More mis-information here, as usual. :rolleyes:

OP, your lodger is just a roommate, not covered by the PRTB and with no right to tenure.

You can take all of her crap, bag it up and leave it outside the door if you wish.

Are you just trying to get the original poster in trouble for kicks?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

This also means that private tenants living in your home are living under alicensee agreement not a tenancy agreement and are really only entitled to reasonable notice if you choose to terminate the agreement. Tenants are, however, entitled to refer disputes regarding periods of reasonable notice, retention of deposits, and disputes regarding deductions from rent for damage to property that is over and above normal wear and tear to the Small Claims Court.

A reasonable period of notice suggests that you need to provide notice. When you simply can't bag a tenants things, and throw them out the door, that clearly is not a reasonable period of notice. If the original poster does this, they can be brought infront of a small claims court where the maximum payout awarded against them could be €2,000.

Serious guys, the next time we have a thread like this, can we remove this nonsense about chucking people out from their home without a period of notice?

Raskolnikov

the_syco wrote: »

She's a lodger. 24 hours can be enough notice. Sounds like she deserves no more, either.

It sounds like "reasonable period of notice" is something that is down to the interpretation of a judge. To me, 24 hours notice does not sound reasonable to me - I mean, have you tried finding a place to live in 24 hours? What if you were foreign (as I suspect this person might be) and you were working a crummy job, had no friends and didn't have a lot of money?

I think would would want to give a week, at least.

bath handle

The citizens information cannot be taken literally. In any case it refers to a situation where the lodger is carrying out their side of the deal. In this case there is a fundamental breach of contract by the lodger. She is being given an adequate opportunity to remedy it. If she does not take it she is liable to being dumped out. The small claims court will have no sympathy. In any case this lodger is leaving the country so won't be able to pursue a claim.

blackboots

This is obviously something which people have very strong opinions on. Let me assure you, just chucking someone out with nowhere to stay is not my first preference - please read my earlier posts. Having said that I don't want to be a walkover.

So we had a "chat" and I'm no further to a resolution, I probably could have been a little more assertive.

I asked her about the rent again, said I still hadn't got it, she said she had made the transfer yesterday. I'm not sure I believe her since we are both with the same bank so usually when she transfers money it shows up straight away. Anyway then she said she had to go on a trip with her work tomorrow (she works for the tourism industry) and she would be gone from 5.30am tomorrow and back on Sunday evening. She said she would ring the bank about the rent.

I told her that there may be people coming to see the room this weekend (lies) so she would have to leave it open.

Maybe I'm a soft touch but I thought maybe I should wait to see if the transfer goes through then if it doesn't; on Monday I tell her either she pays the rent or she's out by Friday the 11th. I still would not be out of pocket by then.

Raskolnikov

bath handle wrote: »

The citizens information cannot be taken literally.

Why not?

bath handle wrote: »

In any case it refers to a situation where the lodger is carrying out their side of the deal.

Where does it say that?