A Dance with Dragons - 12 July 2011 [SPOILERS] - See Mod Post #4

WindmillWarrior

Just finished it myself and like many others I found it very frustrating to read at times, but also at times enjoyable.

Thumbs down on:
The whole "Meereenese knot" thing - boring, get the f*ck on with it...

The Wall -

and Jons "death" - again all of this was dragged out way too much. And Jon continually p*ssing off his men with his plans with the wildlings etc - they're tough bastards on the wall, there was only gonna be so much of that they were gonna take! I was in a foul mood for at least a day after reading about his "death"!!

Thumbs up on:
Reek -

Brilliantly done I thought. Could be redemption there for Theon after his heinous crimes yet!

Cersei -

Loved her walk of shame!

Tyrions chapters were a bit hit and miss at times also

L

*sigh* I've come to the conclusion that GRRM didn't need more time to write this or more books - he needed a bloody editor who would say 'no'.

Real Curate's egg of a book. I'll see how I feel when the next one comes out but it's no longer a 100% definite purchase for me.

Tenger

Just finished it. Will edit with full opinion later.

Disappointing I think sums up my thoughts. I realise that is is concurrent to AFFC but really, feck all actually happens in terms of moving the overall plot forward.

Kings Landing:
The Wall:
The North:
Easteros:
North of the Wall:
Riverlands:
Rest of the 7 Kingdoms:

And to rub salt in the wounds, in the acknowledgement he doesn't even mention his long suffering fans/readers

ixoy

I think the issue in some ways isn't that this is a bad book. It's just that, being six years in the making it should have been a lot better. It's not close to the best I've read this year.

Pepe LeFrits

I enjoyed it a lot but if ever a book needed a good bit of editing, it's this. He could have chopped out the Victarion storyline altogether and gutted the Meereen stuff and I wouldn't have missed any of it.

Dades

Only the Meereen bits dragged for me.

Was quite happy to savour all the other strings knowing it will be years before I get to read the next instalment. I wasn't in a rush to finish it or to even get to the end of each chapter.

Tenger

Apparently boards stops editing after 2 days, oh well good to know.

-Kings Landing:

Cersei's walk and the reappearance of Varys

, that was it? Oh yeah, the new guy on the block is very quiet but very large......
-The Wall:

The stabbing of Jon actually seemed a bit repetitive after the shock of the Ned losing his head, the 2 miller's boys at Winterfell, the Red Wedding,

I can see how he has upset the watch but surely could he not have had a bit of banter and explained the logic behind it. I like the idea that they have to save the 1000's of Wildlings at Hardhome purely to stop them becoming wights at a later stage.
-The North: I do like the unrest here, the Bolton's may be in ascendence but their rule is unstable. The Northern lords 'love the Starks'
-I did however really like the Reek chapters, what a redemption for someone we had hated before. And it is frustrating knowing that the letter from Ramsay is a bunch of half-truths, but which are which?
-Meereen: Too much talking and worrying, am pretty sick of the lot of them now. I can barely handle the bloody names that this point.

Dany has pretty much had a reset to the end of book 1, emerging naked in the Dothraki Sea with a Dragon

.
-North of the Wall: Not a lot of info at all. Still waiting on more Others action.

Bran meeting the 3 eyed crow was short and unsweet

. I have to wonder did the previous books have characters hearing sounds from the weirwoods?
-Riverlands: A single chapter on Jamie, and he meets Brienne.
-Rest of the 7 Kingdoms: Nothing apart from Victarion and his new friend pulled from the sea conveniently fixing his strangely infected sword wound.
-Tyrion: not a lot of opportunity for his trademark humour in this book. Perhaps this is a plot device to teach him humility?


As a stand alone book it is probably good. However reading in the context of having waited 6 years it is a let down. Very little happens overall, the plot hasn't moved on. We still have the entire world racing to get to the Mother of Dragons while the Lannisters try to hold onto the throne while defeating Stannis.


Most of the questions i have still remain unanswered. And of course we have the new piece placed on the cyvasse board accompanied by the Golden Company. I was taken aback by this but do like how the Company have been readied for that day since the Rebellion of Robert and the long term plans of the Cheesemonger and his buddy.


In way I like the thoughts of Kevan in the book. If Aerys had allowed Rhaegar to marry Cersei all those years ago perhaps the turmoil and tragedy of the curent timeline would never of happened. There are serveral keys events 17-20 years ago that are still impacting the 'current' timeline in Westeros.
Rhaegar winning the tournament, Cersei being spurned as a spouse, Lysa and Littlefinger as teen's,

Dades wrote: »

Was quite happy to savour all the other strings knowing it will be years before I get to read the next instalment. I wasn't in a rush to finish it or to even get to the end of each chapter.

I took my time as well purely to enjoy it as much as possible (read The Conclave of Shadows at the same time!) And I actually found it easy to put it down after 3-4 chapter every day or two. Unlike Clash of Kings or Storm of Swords where I was racing to see what happens next.


I do have a question: I would love to know exactly what the Meereenese knot that GRRM referred to. Was it actually the whole Meereen story line or was trying to be smart with his reference to Gordian knot?



Have just read the entire thread with all of the spoilers I skipped before:
Frey Pie: Didn't get it but brillant.

Jon as Azhor Azai: thought that as Melisandre keeps seeing him in her visions. And he is standing against the darkness. Now the question is, where is his Lightbringer? Is this a reference to DragonSteel that the old books say can kill Others?
Dany miscarrying: I though that might be it but then thought what could this mean for the plot? Just reinforcing her plight? Reminding her that she cannot build a life in Meeren and must move on to Westeros?

How does Khal Jhogo react? Will we see a Khalaasar vs Khalassar battle (Khal Pono never liked her)

I assume Davos is tasked to find Rickon on the isle of Skagos? I agree that we could see Rickon being a tough as nails old style Stark, the others kids all seem to be getting pulled away from a life at Winterfell.
Is GRRM setting Tyrion up as part Targaryen, he makes mention of how King Aerys wanted a bit of nookie with Tywins wife?

ixoy

ixoy wrote: »

Just downloaded it there, to be read when I finish my current book. One thing that struck me though: The formatting looks pretty poor. There's no line space breaks anywhere in a chapter and it's just one big block of text.

Another thing is the introductory letter in each chapter just hangs on a line. Clearly in the book this is a stylised letter but in the Kindle version, using the default font, it looks ugly. There's no real excuse for this because the Kindle can easily handle graphics.

They heard my bitching! I got an e-mail from Amazon apologising for the poor quality of the first edition and I just downloaded the updated edition, with fixes for spellings etc. They also formatted the chapters better, fixing that hanging character issue I described above and giving each chapter a little header.

ArthurG

That's odd, I just checked and no email and no updated version. Then again, I bought from the UK store, they might be a bit behind.....

Tenger

ixoy wrote: »

They heard my bitching! I got an e-mail from Amazon apologising for the poor quality of the first edition and I just downloaded the updated edition, with fixes for spellings etc. They also formatted the chapters better, fixing that hanging character issue I described above and giving each chapter a little header.

While useful I have already finished it so not going to bother updating. It didn't really bother me that much reading it.

ixoy

Tenger wrote: »

While useful I have already finished it so not going to bother updating. It didn't really bother me that much reading it.

It bothered me initially but I got used to it. I'm long finished it by now but I updated it in case I ever re-read it (not going to happen any time soon) and to see if they identified the same issues as I had. I don't like to see Kindle titles, which I primarily read now, getting shoddy treatment. There's been a few typos in "Reamde" so far, but it's generally been fine (typos appear in print versions as well).

5starpool

ixoy wrote: »

It bothered me initially but I got used to it. I'm long finished it by now but I updated it in case I ever re-read it (not going to happen any time soon) and to see if they identified the same issues as I had. I don't like to see Kindle titles, which I primarily read now, getting shoddy treatment. There's been a few typos in "Reamde" so far, but it's generally been fine (typos appear in print versions as well).

I got no email about updated version? Did you complain or something?

JohnK

Did you buy from the UK or US store 5starpool? I bought from the US store and I got the updated version too. I didnt complain or anything like that so I would presume they just emailed everyone who bought the book.

5starpool

Ahem, I may have had a blonde moment, despite not having much hair at all. My amazon.com account is registered with an email account I don't check often. I did actually get one. Cheers for the heads up anyhow guys.

ArthurG

Ok, finally finished the thing. As many have said, looking back now the whole Meereen thing is what made the book such a drag for me. Once we we're over that, i sped through the last 10% or so of the book.

Some nice plot threads left hanging make me hunger for the next installment, but I just hope we're not going to fall into the Jordan trap and have all these new threads / characters taking over huge swathes of the story from this point on.

Whens the next one out?? :rolleyes:

Beruthiel

I'm so very upset about Jon

ArthurG

Beruthiel wrote: »

I'm so very upset about Jon

I'm pretty sure there's more to that than meets the eye.....

Tenger

Beruthiel wrote: »

I'm so very upset about Jon

Well to be honest I think I have lost the shock factor with GRRM. When I read that my first thought was "ah feck, not this happening again!!!"

Hrududu

I don't believe that

Jon is dead. I also don't believe that young Griff is Aegon. There were a few mentions of various characters in the books that had Targaryen colouring, including, I think Illyrio's wife. Illyrio also seemed very keen to see the boy and was disappointed when he didn't get the opportunity. Plus there were boys clothes in his house that Tyrion had to wear. I think there was also some reference in there to a mummer's dragon. Which made me think he wasn't a real Targaryen.

I'm done with Mereen. I just want Dany to hurry the fup up and go to Westeros.

ArthurG

ixoy wrote: »

They heard my bitching! I got an e-mail from Amazon apologising for the poor quality of the first edition and I just downloaded the updated edition, with fixes for spellings etc. They also formatted the chapters better, fixing that hanging character issue I described above and giving each chapter a little header.

Just got update from .co.uk, must have been a week or two behind the US.

ArthurG

Also got an update for Clash of Kings the other day, same deal (typos fixed, better formatting etc).

Scruff

Dades wrote: »

Only the Meereen bits dragged for me.

Was quite happy to savour all the other strings knowing it will be years before I get to read the next instalment. I wasn't in a rush to finish it or to even get to the end of each chapter.

ditto. only finished it last night after starting in July! a good read but not a page turner like the previous books. All of which i re-read in about the same time it took to finish this one on its own.

Agree with Meereen dragging and the "killing" off at the end. Getting more worried that its spiraling into a WOT.

overall, a good read but not as great as the previous and cant exactly see why the 6 year wait.

Tenger

Scruff wrote: »

ditto. only finished it last night after starting in July!...... Getting more worried that its spiraling into a WOT......

Well as a WoT for what seems like half of my life at last we know there is only 1 more book!!!

3qsmavrod5twfe

Tenger wrote: »

Is GRRM setting Tyrion up as part Targaryen, he makes mention of how King Aerys wanted a bit of nookie with Tywins wife?

Could be onto something there.

There is a precedent in House Targaryen for having mismatched eyes - Shiera Seastar, one of Aegon the Unworthy's daughters was said to have two different coloured eyes - just like Tyrion http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Shiera_Seastar

me-skywalker

2 conflicting opinions on Jon.

1: I was so sick and tired of him fawning over the Wildlings and his complete lack of respect for his Brothers; he coudl have at elast ocnfided some sort of reasoning or plan of action with them at earlier stages isntead of bottlign everything up or having secret meetings with Melissandre and the leaders of the others.

2: I believe the prologue alludes heavily to Jon's fate.


Are spoiler tags needed since is nearly 6months since release?

YouSavedMyLife

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I enjoyed it a lot but if ever a book needed a good bit of editing, it's this. He could have chopped out the Victarion storyline altogether and gutted the Meereen stuff and I wouldn't have missed any of it.

What? I really enjoyed the Victarion chapters and his character. He is straight forward and to the point and is a ruthless bastard to boot. He is also one of few characters that isnt playing the game of thrones, which is refreshing, and is doing all he is doing just to spite his brother. Fantastic! Plus hes got a new

badass arm of flame(kinda)

All that being said i have a feeling he is gonna die early in the next book

New to this thread but finished the book about 3 months ago. Anyone got any ideas on who Cersei's masked Champion is? I bet her fallen maester (forget his name) has dappled in some form of necromancy and has somehow brought Gregor Clegane back from the dead!

5starpool

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

New to this thread but finished the book about 3 months ago. Anyone got any ideas on who Cersei's masked Champion is? I bet her fallen maester (forget his name) has dappled in some form of necromancy and has somehow brought Gregor Clegane back from the dead!

This is clearly what we are meant to believe anyhow, and a likely scenario.

me-skywalker

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

What? I really enjoyed the Victarion chapters and his character. He is straight forward and to the point and is a ruthless bastard to boot. He is also one of few characters that isnt playing the game of thrones, which is refreshing, and is doing all he is doing just to spite his brother. Fantastic! Plus hes got a new

badass arm of flame(kinda)

All that being said i have a feeling he is gonna die early in the next book

New to this thread but finished the book about 3 months ago. Anyone got any ideas on who Cersei's masked Champion is? I bet her fallen maester (forget his name) has dappled in some form of necromancy and has somehow brought Gregor Clegane back from the dead!

Victarion is arriving in Meereen, he's up for a fight, has a fleet ready to fight and made for war! Lets have it I say!

Also Qyburn was stripped from his position as a maester for experiments he performed on humans, this would lead us to beleive that Robert Strong is The Mountain, in monstorous zombie form!

Pepe LeFrits

A mysterious giant who can't show his face or talk? Who could it be!!

Victarion is a pain in the arse. One of the less tedious characters from that story arc but that isn't saying much.

stevemac

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Winds-Winter-Book-Song-Fire/dp/000648610X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328652557&sr=1-1

amazon's page for Book 6. Huge spoilers if there product description is accurate. They do say that "This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title".

Don't read if you don't want to know whats going to happen. As a customer review points out most of these things haven't even begun to happen yet.

Only read if you want to know what will happen.

Continuing the most imaginative and ambitious epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings Winter has come at last and no man can say whether it will ever go again. The Wall is broken, the cold dead legions are coming south, and the people of the Seven Kingdoms turn to their queen to protect them. But Daenerys Targaryen is learning what Robert Baratheon learned before her; that it is one thing to win a throne and quite another to sit on one. Before she can hope to defeat the Others, Dany knows she must unite the broken realm behind her. Wolf and lion must hunt together, maester and greenseer work as one, all the blood feuds must be put aside, the bitter rivals and sowrn enemies join hands. The Winds of Winter tells the story of Dany's fight to save her new-won kingdom, of two desperate journeys beyond the known world in to the very hearts of ice and fire, and of the final clomactic battle at Winterfell, with life itself in the balance.