A Dance with Dragons - 12 July 2011 [SPOILERS] - See Mod Post #4

Paddy Samurai

Just started my copy last night,the two books I am currently reading have been despatched to the back burner.
If the damn thing was'nt so bloody heavy I would bring it into work.
Might use it to work out when I'm finished it.:D

Sleepy

fitz wrote: »

I think marriage is the most likely outcome tbh. But, regardless of the existing tradition of male preference in succession, what if Dany doesn't accept that as a valid rule, and (as I think she will) sees herself as the rightful heir? Again, it comes back to marriage being a likely resolution.

and isn't it a handy coincidence that the Targaryens practice incest to allow Daenarys marry her nephew... and polygamy to allow a third head for the dragon / third dragon rider?

Tehol

fitz wrote: »

I think marriage is the most likely outcome tbh. But, regardless of the existing tradition of male preference in succession, what if Dany doesn't accept that as a valid rule, and (as I think she will) sees herself as the rightful heir? Again, it comes back to marriage being a likely resolution.

Don't see why Dany wouldn't accept Aegon as a valid ruler. She has heard how great/loved Rheagar was from the stories she has heard from Viserys/Barriston, so why wouldn't she accept his son a the rightful ruler. She was happy to follow Viserys even thought he was clearly insane because he was the heir.

5starpool

I wonder

who the 3rd head of the dragon will be though, assuming Aegon is one of the three?

Also, I don't necessarily think that Dany will end up being ruler. It is hardly outside the realms of possibility that GRRM will do something other than the expected, although I don't think it will be as dramatic as her dieing or anything. Saying that though, Aegon could still end up deader than a dodo by the end of book 6.

fitz

Tehol wrote: »

She was happy to follow Viserys even thought he was clearly insane because he was the heir.

In fairness, she grew out of following Viserys. She sees herself as a Queen now, she's not going to submit to someone else. Compromise, maybe. But all of this is assuming Aegon survives, which I'm not sure he will.

Sleepy

I'm inclined to agree with you there fitz, I'll actually be surprised if Aegon lives. He seems too well suited to rule for GRRM to allow him to!

fitz

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with you there fitz, I'll actually be surprised if Aegon lives. He seems too well suited to rule for GRRM to allow him to!

The prospect of having Connington survive the Greyscale just long enough to see Aegon killed is something that I would be surprised to see Martin turn down...

Cunning Alias

fitz wrote: »

Fully expecting a scene where she responds to the question of who she is with: "Arya Stark of Winterfell". At which point she'll recover Needle and return home. I think this will probably happen when she hears Jon is dead, which will be one of her regular three-new-things-that-she-has-learned.

Expecting/hoping for this myself. Honestly cant wait for her to return and start working on her list. I'm guessing there will also be a reunion with Nymeria at some point. I have a horrible feeling that she may be training for most of the next book though. There are still the "2 big events" that were left out of this book to get through and as I mentioned before, there are too many main characters. I am expecting a few deaths in the first half of the next book or else the series is definitely going to go to reach 8.

ixoy

Just finished it! I enjoyed it overall...

I too thought that, in the second half, the story was spread a bit too thinly over all the characters.
I feel some of these are now stuck a bit - how long will Bran spend amongst the trees? I can see why GRRM is doing this but will it mean that there's little time to spend with the character?

Bring back Arya! I don't want her doing an assassin's apprentice routine. She's wasted half a world away.

Also will we finally see what Rickon is up to through Davos? With Robb a corpse, Bran a tree, and Jon probably warged into Ghost, Rickon is now in line to resurrect House Stark.

As to Jon.. I thought we spent a little bit too much time up at the Wall with nothing really moving. Until the end of course - I'm assuming he's inside Ghost. It would make sense given the prologue, which is setting the precedent for it.

Dany's storyline disappointed a little. It was too static. I understand this was a sore issue for GRRM but it made it a little frustrating to read that, five books on, she's still stuck on the other side of the world.
Still the various factions that can now clash should be interesting.

The revelation of Aegon felt a little shoe-horned in to - as said above - break out the Meereneese knot a little. To be fair it's not an unreasonable turn of events but it felt a little easy, especially the return journey. In fact everyone seems to be merrily sailing back and forth to Westeros in this book except Dany who is too busy eating dates (but not honeyed locusts).

The most pleasant surprise for me was probably Reek (rhymes with meek). GRRM did a good job of making me feel sympathy for this back-stabbing traitorous bastard. Perhaps partially because Ramsay Bolton is now the nastiest creature in the series, rivalling even Clegane (who may be alive it seems).

What I hope for in the next book is lots more Arya, more of Brienne and Jamie, a bit less of Dany unless she's going to bloody well get moving, more of Cersei's head detaching from her shoulders, and the rise and rise of King Tommen's kittens to power.

Sleepy

Rickon is one of the characters I think has most potential to be great. With his already wild nature, abandonment issues over Ned and Catelyn and Osha the wildling caring for him I can see him growing to be an old-school Stark: Northern to the core and hard as nails. The only problem is his youth, he's one character who really could have done with the 5 year gap!

mecco

Sleepy wrote: »

Rickon is one of the characters I think has most potential to be great. With his already wild nature, abandonment issues over Ned and Catelyn and Osha the wildling caring for him I can see him growing to be an old-school Stark: Northern to the core and hard as nails. The only problem is his youth, he's one character who really could have done with the 5 year gap!

I agree with Sleepy. Although, we really have no clue of whats going on with him at the moment so it might slow things down if he had to be re-introduced (for want of a better word)

I think its lining up to see big things from all the remaining Starks actually. Three of them are almost treading water and undergoing a training of sorts (Bran as a greenseer, Arya as a faceless man, Sansa is becoming more devious/worldwise and less naive under Littlefingers creepy tutelage). It seems like they are being prepared for things to come to me.

This could be way off the mark, but something that struck me is the following. I think its kind of interesting that way back at the start, Ned Stark is worried about splitting the family as the direwolves get their strength as a pack, and how the lone wolf is less dominating, and more designed for survival. And as the family/pack is separated, they are all showing weaknesses and losing their respective battles, but most are still surviving. I wonder will we see the family and direwolves (four legged) start to reunite in future stories and exert more strength and influence? Or is that wishful thinking?

Tenger

I better start my reading of it as all these spoilers posts are too tempting!
I will start on Saturday.

On a positive note I just finishing reading 'The Mystery Knight', I bought the Warriors anthology. Nice little prologue to the time of ASoIaF.

Tristram

wtf grrrr arrrrggghhhh wtf bah he did it again!!! :mad:

stevemac

Tristram wrote: »

wtf grrrr arrrrggghhhh wtf bah he did it again!!! :mad:

damn, has he killed someone again?


comment/spoiler: about half way

what is with all the sex. Was there this much in the other books? or is he just throwing it into the books to be edgy? a lot of it seems pointless and just there for the sake of GRR having nothing else to write
and 2: Bloody hell, when he was deciding what to do with tyrion he really decided to be as dramatic as possible. Its nothing but surprising twist after surprising twist. Just let him develope to do something himself .. Really bored with his chapters now.

Tristram

I don't understand the amount of time spent with the Quentyn storyline when he ends up toasted. To be honest I was a bit disappointed with ADOD. I'm not convinced that GRRM knows how he is going to get to the end. I can see this getting a bit Wheel of Time-ish and dragging on and on with no end in sight.

GetInTheHole!

Slightly off topic here as I'm going back to AFFC..

But,

WTF was the story with the epilogue in AFFC with that Pate chap's encounter with the alchemist??
Absolutely random - even more so when Pate re-appeared in the last chapter with Sam???
Did I miss something here or can somebody enlighthen me as I found it all a bit pointless..

As for Dance..

I was a little underwhelmed unfortunately..
Really thought that another chaptor or two with Davos would have been good - especially as Manderly said he would not make his move until he had Rickon?? Yet now he's stick in the middle of it in Winterfell with no apparent word on Davos or Rickon??
Overall it was good, but I don't like the way we're left hanging on numerous fronts..
Maybe I was expecting just too much of a good thing..

The wait for the next one is already starting to get me vexed though..!!

Tails142

Did the alchemist kill Pate with a poisoned coin, and that is the way that Arya kills the trader... maybe Pate is one of the god of many faces' assassins pretending to be Pate??

Just a guess because none of these things ever occur to me while I'm reading, I never got who Abel the bard was until I read about it on a forum after I finished the book

hidinginthebush

Tails142 wrote: »

Did the alchemist kill Pate with a poisoned coin, and that is the way that Arya kills the trader... maybe Pate is one of the god of many faces' assassins pretending to be Pate??

Just a guess because none of these things ever occur to me while I'm reading, I never got who Abel the bard was until I read about it on a forum after I finished the book

+1 on the Abel thing, I felt like such an idiot since everyone seemed to cop it straight away

ixoy

Hungry? Here you can find recipes for some of the dishes described in "A Dance With Dragons" including cold egg lime soup and veal cutlets blanched with almond milk. Dinner time!

pljudge321

hidinginthebush wrote: »

+1 on the Abel thing, I felt like such an idiot since everyone seemed to cop it straight away

Same here, I really love the way

Abel rearranged is Bael, nice touch by Martin.

How do people think Stannis will react when he hears news of Aegon. If he believes that it really is Rhaegar's son he will have a hard time justifying his claim to the throne.

Tehol

How do people think Stannis will react when he hears news of Aegon. If he believes that it really is Rhaegar's son he will have a hard time justifying his claim to the throne.

[/QUOTE]

He dosen't seem to care about Dany's claim so why would Aegon be any different

Sleepy

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

Slightly off topic here as I'm going back to AFFC..

But,

WTF was the story with the epilogue in AFFC with that Pate chap's encounter with the alchemist??
Absolutely random - even more so when Pate re-appeared in the last chapter with Sam???
Did I miss something here or can somebody enlighthen me as I found it all a bit pointless..

Almost certainly a faceless man who's taken Pate's face. Most likely in order to steal the "Ultimate Guide to Dragons" that's in the Citadel since the Valyrians and their Dragons are the ancient enemy of the faceless men

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

As for Dance..

I was a little underwhelmed unfortunately..
Really thought that another chaptor or two with Davos would have been good - especially as Manderly said he would not make his move until he had Rickon?? Yet now he's stick in the middle of it in Winterfell with no apparent word on Davos or Rickon??
Overall it was good, but I don't like the way we're left hanging on numerous fronts..
Maybe I was expecting just too much of a good thing..

The wait for the next one is already starting to get me vexed though..!!

Manderly hasn't made his move yet as far as we know... He's still playing along with being on the Bolton's / Lannister's side...

Cunning Alias

Sleepy wrote: »

their Dragons are the ancient enemy of the faceless men

Can you expand on this a bit? Never really saw them as their ancient enemy. They just seemed to be euthanasist's/assassin's to me.

Sleepy

They were founded by slaves in the mines of Valyria. The animosity was mentioned when Arya was hearing the story of the cult's founding from the kindly man.

BlaasForRafa

ixoy wrote: »

Hungry? Here you can find recipes for some of the dishes described in "A Dance With Dragons" including cold egg lime soup and veal cutlets blanched with almond milk. Dinner time!

The descriptions of meals is one of the areas I think GRRM gets a bit waffly, I figured he probably ripped them off from some book like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pleyn-Delit-Medieval-Cookery-Modern/dp/0802076327/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313400673&sr=8-1

stevemac

crawled to a stop with the book, was expecting more. Disappointing. About 150 pages left. But Ill leave it to another time to finish. No hurry in it. Not a lot happens.

ixoy

stevemac wrote: »

crawled to a stop with the book, was expecting more. Disappointing. About 150 pages left. But Ill leave it to another time to finish. No hurry in it. Not a lot happens.

Reading the Amazon reviews, this is where the book is most heavily criticised with people making comparisons to how "The Wheel of Time"'s pace dragged to an almost halt around Book 10. I did enjoy this but, for a 1000 page novel, not very much changes.

hidinginthebush

stevemac wrote: »

crawled to a stop with the book, was expecting more. Disappointing. About 150 pages left. But Ill leave it to another time to finish. No hurry in it. Not a lot happens.

MUST....NOT....SPOIL....

ixoy wrote: »

Reading the Amazon reviews, this is where the book is most heavily criticised with people making comparisons to how "The Wheel of Time"'s pace dragged to an almost halt around Book 10. I did enjoy this but, for a 1000 page novel, not very much changes.

This is something I've talked to friends in work about. We came to the conclusion that not a whole lot really happens in any of the books. I'm not gonna get into specifics, but every book pretty much only has one or 2 big events (he had only finished Clash of Kings at the time, I was trying to downplay the "big events" that transpire in Storm of Swords ). But it is very true that the whole series is very slow moving. Granted, the last two do take the p!ss in terms of slowness, but I can't say I'm surprised, given how slow the previous books in the series were. The slowness hasn't stopped me emjoying them immensely, so I don't see why I'd turn on them all after sticking with them for so long for something that has always been present.

BlaasForRafa

hidinginthebush wrote: »

MUST....NOT....SPOIL....

This is something I've talked to friends in work about. We came to the conclusion that not a whole lot really happens in any of the books. I'm not gonna get into specifics, but every book pretty much only has one or 2 big events (he had only finished Clash of Kings at the time, I was trying to downplay the "big events" that transpire in Storm of Swords ). But it is very true that the whole series is very slow moving. Granted, the last two do take the p!ss in terms of slowness, but I can't say I'm surprised, given how slow the previous books in the series were. The slowness hasn't stopped me emjoying them immensely, so I don't see why I'd turn on them all after sticking with them for so long for something that has always been present.

Over the last 2 books though GRRM has gone really over the top in terms of introducing new minor characters and in describing what people were wearing and what they were eating. I nearly threw AFFC against the wall when I was reading through an interminable description of Prince Doran eating an orange :mad:

5starpool

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Over the last 2 books though GRRM has gone really over the top in terms of introducing new minor characters and in describing what people were wearing and what they were eating. I nearly threw AFFC against the wall when I was reading through an interminable description of Prince Doran eating an orange :mad:

Never mind hearing constantly about his sore legs.