The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Tom Joad

Jampip wrote: »

I'm not sure where you are getting that it came as a shock to Brennan. He was 33 at the time. I also don't know where you are getting that the relationship didn't end well. He was 33 and told that he wasn't needed in the panel at that time but they'd bear him in mind if needed. Brennan said he was still available if called upon. I'm not sure how any of that can be classed as being a "shock" or "didn't end well". Have you any proof of this?

You've just contradicted yourself also. Your initial point was that their relationship was "hardly a rosey relationship". Now its changed to "undoubtedly a huge fan of Hyland". Which is it then?

The bottom line is that you're suggesting there was a strain on their relationship which there simply wasn't.

Another Strawman argument.

I thought Mickey quit to focus on his singing career

KeepTheFaith

I don't need to prove anything. I know what I know. Mickey was dropped after the league in 2012. He admitted himself that he was surprised. I even remember him tweeting at the time saying he had just been informed that his intercounty career was finished and that at least he still had club Football. Go look it up if you like.

You are suggesting that Brennan was a former player of Hyland so of course he won't speak out against him. In reality Hyland ended Mickey's intercounty days. To me that's far from being a rosey relationship. Mickey still has great time for Terry despite that. To me that says a lot.

While we're on the subject of our sports journalists I think we should be thankful we have a few lads like Mickey and Damien Donohoe and Paul Fitz. They bring great positivity And it's a breath of fresh air when you contrast it with National Gaa coverage.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Another Strawman argument.

I thought Mickey quit to focus on his singing career

There's no point me trying to answer three or four of yas at one lads. Are yas trying to run me out of town for having an opinion?

Only a couple of days ago I had to inform you that Terry started as joint manager in 2010 and of Keating being dropped from the U21 panel in 2010 and now you're trying to be smart with me.

Who was more aware of the facts in those two instances?

I was also the one on here with the news about Galligan playing last week when some of ye lads probably hadn't even taken your seats in Breffni so don't try to be smart and act like I don't know what I'm talking about.

My argument has also been misrepresented. One posted above mentioned sacking the manager. I never said that. I simply said that this is Hyland's sixth team involved with the seniors and I feel that, when we have such a talented bunch, we should be looking at making the most of them and a more proven coach would be in a better position to do that.

KeepTheFaith

Jampip wrote: »

There's no point me trying to answer three or four of yas at one lads. Are yas trying to run me out of town for having an opinion?

Only a couple of days ago I had to inform you that Terry started as joint manager in 2010 and of Keating being dropped from the U21 panel in 2010 and now you're trying to be smart with me.

Who was more aware of the facts in those two instances?

I was also the one on here with the news about Galligan playing last week when some of ye lads probably hadn't even taken your seats in Breffni so don't try to be smart and act like I don't know what I'm talking about.

My argument has also been misrepresented. One posted above mentioned sacking the manager. I never said that. I simply said that this is HYland's sixth team involved with the seniors and I feel that, when we have such a talented bunch, we should be looking at making the most of them and a more proven coach would be in a better position to do that.

Sorry Jampip please stay.. we can only bow before your superior knowledge...

Seriously though let's not get petty. Who would you think a suitable replacement if Terry were to leave?

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Sorry Jampip please stay.. we can only bow before your superior knowledge...

Seriously though let's not get petty. Who would you think a suitable replacement if Terry were to leave?

I don't think its petty. You've a poster there that I've had to inform on another of topics over the past number of days now trying to be smart with me.

It's two or three days since I asked him to link to some articles of where players had criticised Val Andrews when he was still manager and same was not forthcoming.

In regard to your question, I've already said McEntee from Armagh or Kevin McStay to name but two. I was also asked about coaching regarding being a bit cuter. I don't know what coaches would be available for that. I'm not a GAA manager for senior level so wouldn't look into it. I don't think the U8s I coach would be appreciative of it yet!

I do know that Martin McHugh was teaching Dublin-based teams about these "Ulster skills" in the noughties. He gave two to three day coaching courses to teams like St Brigids in Blanchardstown.

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

I don't need to prove anything. I know what I know. Mickey was dropped after the league in 2012. He admitted himself that he was surprised. I even remember him tweeting at the time saying he had just been informed that his intercounty career was finished and that at least he still had club Football. Go look it up if you like.

You are suggesting that Brennan was a former player of Hyland so of course he won't speak out against him. In reality Hyland ended Mickey's intercounty days. To me that's far from being a rosey relationship. Mickey still has great time for Terry despite that. To me that says a lot.

While we're on the subject of our sports journalists I think we should be thankful we have a few lads like Mickey and Damien Donohoe and Paul Fitz. They bring great positivity And it's a breath of fresh air when you contrast it with National Gaa coverage.

I've tried looking for the tweet. The PC has been loading here for near an hour and is still only at July 2013 in Brennan's tweets. He's retweeting half the county at that stage with Cavan's wins. If you want to rely on same, I'd also point out that the onus is on you to get it as part of your argument.

It doesn't say a lot to me. I still don't believe Brennan was surprised. He was 33 at the time and the U21s were coming forward. Regardless of what happened then, the fact is that he's an ex player and you've admitted yourself that Brennan is undoubtedly a fan of Hyland. So our local media consists of one journalist that lives with Terry's son and another who is a former player and great fan of his. Where is the objectivity to come from? You can say its great to have such positivity but the bias borders beyond the ridiculous at times.

What other county goes away on what has been called a training camp and brings the local reporter and commentator with them?

Roscommon were promoted for example. They're no better than us IMO. Discounting the qualifier game last Summer where we were missing 8/9, I think in the League final we should have beaten them and we drew away with them this year. They're being promoted however while we're stuck in the minefield that will be Division 2 next year because we couldn't win our home games in the League.

I'll know not to raise the point again here to be honest. I still think there's more to come from this team and I'm not sure if Terry is the man for it. Wonderful strides have been made but you have to look at Sunday and think, was it a case of us being good or Monaghan being sloppy? I'm hoping it was us being good but the qualifiers should show us.

I'll leave it there. No point continuing as I'm clearly in the minority here.

cavan4sam

Jampip wrote: »

I'll come back to the rest of the points later but this one made me chuckle. A fine example of someone on a forum not having a clue what they are talking about.

I can't find the news article online but I remember the story at the time. Mickey was asked about coming back for Cavan. He said he felt he still had something to offer but that it was Terry's decision and there was no ill will. He was 33 or so at the time. Incidentally, Mickey interviews Terry after every game. Vids are on YouTube. Do you spot any tension?

I actually chat to Mickey regularly and that's why I find your point so amusing. He works as a catering manager in the Kilmore. Call in any day Monday to Friday and he's more than happy to discuss football.

Ask him for his opinion on Terry. The joke amongst a few of the regulars in there for lunch you see is Mickey's delusional love for Terry!

I'll have to show your post to the lunchtime regulars. It'll give them a good laugh.

Even funnier is that two other posters thanked a post which couldn't be any wider of the mark.

And this isn't me trolling. You just got the above so wrong it's hilarious for anyone that speaks to Mickey on even irregular occasions like myself.

isn't it convenient to leave the part of the post out that i thanked which was about the Sunday game analysis. ffs grow up and get off your high horse .i for one am sick of the 'i heard this ' and ' i heard that' bs that is going on here

the fact is we fell short on sunday by 1 score so i dont think there is need for too many changes on either management or team personnel. i'm sure the lads are still hurting quite bad and will be out to put things right in the qualifier

if the draw is kind to us i think we might just surprise a few teams

Jampip

cavan4sam wrote: »

isn't it convenient to leave the part of the post out that i thanked which was about the Sunday game analysis. ffs grow up and get off your high horse .i for one am sick of the 'i heard this ' and ' i heard that' bs that is going on here

the fact is we fell short on sunday by 1 score so i dont think there is need for too many changes on either management or team personnel. i'm sure the lads are still hurting quite bad and will be out to put things right in the qualifier

if the draw is kind to us i think we might just surprise a few teams

A poster suggested that the relationship between Brennan and Hyland isn't "rosey". I'm not claiming to be friends with the fella. He works in the Kilmore though, is an approachable lad and will talk to anyone until the cows come home about football.

As I know the poster above's statement is incorrect IMO, what do you want me to do?

Said poster has since admitted that Brennan is undoubtedly a huge fan of Terry, my original argument.

Tom Joad

Jampip wrote: »

There's no point me trying to answer three or four of yas at one lads. Are yas trying to run me out of town for having an opinion?

Only a couple of days ago I had to inform you that Terry started as joint manager in 2010 and of Keating being dropped from the U21 panel in 2010 and now you're trying to be smart with me.

Who was more aware of the facts in those two instances?

I was also the one on here with the news about Galligan playing last week when some of ye lads probably hadn't even taken your seats in Breffni so don't try to be smart and act like I don't know what I'm talking about.

My argument has also been misrepresented. One posted above mentioned sacking the manager. I never said that. I simply said that this is Hyland's sixth team involved with the seniors and I feel that, when we have such a talented bunch, we should be looking at making the most of them and a more proven coach would be in a better position to do that.

Ah here Jampip there's no need for that. You made some statements on here that I disputed - you still haven't addressed them (Post #3649).

Nobodies trying to run anyone out of town but when you make statements on here that people dispute you will be asked to back them up - that's how debates usually work.

To try and engage in I know more than you is a bit childish and you missed my point completely about Hyland as manager - What I said was he was sole manager since April 2012.

I was amused by your using the I know Mickey Brennan argument - I know Mickey very well and I thought a subtle reference to his singing career might alert you to that.

Seats in Breffni - I was on the terraces since 12:00 pm so do I win supporter of the year award.:D

Lets not have a mickey waving competition here - that stuff is more suited to the hoganstand.

Now being a bit more sincere about it - it's good for debate that there is an alternative view on here (it would be very boring if we all agreed on everything) and we've had more debate on here in the last while than ever before so I for one hope you stick around.

celt262

Tom Joad wrote: »

Now being a bit more sincere about it - it's good for debate that there is an alternative view on here (it would be very boring if we all agreed on everything) and we've had more debate on here in the last while than ever before so I for one hope you stick around.

I agree I did a bit of work there for an hour or so come back on and there was some riveting posts to read.

Tom Joad

https://twitter.com/Mickybrennan14/status/196539154090303488


Here to help

KeepTheFaith

Is there anyone here who doesn't know Mickey Brennan?!

McStay and McEntee. They seem to be the two names we see mentioned most. Both brilliant club managers for sure but why are they viewed as an upgrade on Hyland? For me, Terry's record trumps them both.

Personally I don't want to see any outside managers. Every level in Cavan is now managed by a Cavan person and for me there's something very commendable about that. Roscommon have done well under Evans but he has so much more success at underage level to work with than Cavan do and in reality apart from promotion this year we've been as good as them over the past 3 years or so.

Internal managers and building teams over years from underage is the way to go. Taking blind shots in the dark with the hope of finding one outside man who will be the answer is what we did for years and it led us to out lowest point in the history of the GAA.

Peter Reilly has done enough to deserve a go at the top job. If Terry were to leave as Jampip predicts, I think he'd be hard done by to not get it, if he wants it of course.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Mickybrennan14/status/196539154090303488


Here to help

I don't see any particular shock or upset apparent from that.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Ah here Jampip there's no need for that. You made some statements on here that I disputed - you still haven't addressed them (Post #3649).

Nobodies trying to run anyone out of town but when you make statements on here that people dispute you will be asked to back them up - that's how debates usually work.

To try and engage in I know more than you is a bit childish and you missed my point completely about Hyland as manager - What I said was he was sole manager since April 2012.

I was amused by your using the I know Mickey Brennan argument - I know Mickey very well and I thought a subtle reference to his singing career might alert you to that.

Seats in Breffni - I was on the terraces since 12:00 pm so do I win supporter of the year award.:D

Lets not have a mickey waving competition here - that stuff is more suited to the hoganstand.

Now being a bit more sincere about it - it's good for debate that there is an alternative view on here (it would be very boring if we all agreed on everything) and we've had more debate on here in the last while than ever before so I for one hope you stick around.

Yes and I asked you to back up your statement about players speaking out against Val Andrews before post #3649. You can't call me out for not responding to your questions when you haven't responded to mine. I'm well aware of how debates work and I'm waiting for a reply regarding your post about players talking out.

My opinion is that players in the county don't do it, even when unhappy. I gave Seanie Johnston as the perfect example of this. He has more reason than anyone to be unhappy but he hasn't spoke out about it. I was told that was a strawman argument. I don't see how. You have one of the most annoyed footballers in the county and he has still kept his counsel. So why would players with lesser qualms try to attack the manager? It's just not the done thing in the county now.

I'm not using any "I know" Mickey Brennan argument or trying to win a bigger balls competition. I called out a post from another poster because I know for a fact there's no animosity between the two. Said poster has since admitted to that so I can't see why he tried to paint there was in the first place.

To be honest I think we've moved away from my point which still stands. Local media could not be seen in any way as being in a position to be objective.

KeepTheFaith

Jampip wrote: »

I don't see any particular shock or upset apparent from that.

You don't sound like the most socially aware guy in the world though given that you were going to show some people eating lunch in a hotel a post in a football forum to try to get some laughs.. Let them eat their lunch ffs...

Tom Joad

Jampip wrote: »

Yes and I asked you to back up your statement about players speaking out against Val Andrews before post #3649. You can't call me out for not responding to your questions when you haven't responded to mine. I'm well aware of how debates work and I'm waiting for a reply regarding your post about players talking out.

Ah ffs Post#3649 was a summary of the questions you hadn't answered from about 50 posts previous!! I was recapping them for ease of reference and in the hope you might address them.

I wrote that post out of pure frustration because we were going around and around in circles which seems to be your idea of deflecting from having a proper debate.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Ah ffs Post#3649 was a summary of the questions you hadn't answered from about 50 posts previous!! I was recapping them for ease of reference and in the hope you might address them.

I wrote that post out of pure frustration because we were going around and around in circles which seems to be your idea of deflecting from having a proper debate.

I must have missed these questions I didn't answer. I've answered whatever had been put to me previously to that IMO.

I'm still waiting for those links that you said you found easily.

Your questions from that post 3649 so:

Who had you in mind for this job? Like I said, I'm not a GAA manager. Martin McHugh gave coaching to the Dublin club teams in the noughties regarding it. I'm sure there are coaches available. Monaghan and Tyrone didn't just pick it off. How about Joe Kernan for a bit of advice?

Can you confirm if Gilly has gone or not? I was told on Sunday that he had walked as I said. I don't attend county training so cannot confirm it.

Really not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying they left because of issues with Hyland? Both players left because of Hyland IMO and will not be back while he is manager.
Just because they don't come out and say it doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. For example, when players are asked about Seanie J, how many come out and say "no, we don't want him near the panel".

New York happened a few months ago - plenty of opportunity before that. What about national media?? As I've said time and time again, there is no precedent in Cavan for players to approach national or local media about unhappiness while a manager is still in situ. IN fact, there are plenty of examples of unhappy players keeping to omerta and also of managers actually complaining about the players when they leave.

New York only happened recently but it is an example of the relationship between local media and the management. As I asked, how many teams do you know that brought local reporters and commentators with them to their "training camps"?

I don't know how you can argue that I'm deflecting. I made a point about a local commentator and his good relstionship with management and the media not being objective. Another poster then brought up a pointless tweet from three years ago which has absolutely no relevance. Said poster then agreed with me that the commentator is undoubtedly a fan of Terry! This has now dragged on for a series of posts yet I'm the one deflecting.

I've tried to leave it a few times so I'll leave it there now. I don't know how many times I've asked for proof of one thing now yet I'm the one deflecting. You said you had links. Where are they?

KeepTheFaith

Barry Reilly openly criticised Val Andrews and the management team when we lost the Donegal game a few years ago. In Gaelic life.

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Barry Reilly openly criticised Val Andrews and the management team when we lost the Donegal game a few years ago. In Gaelic life.

He wasn't a panel member at the time. He was speaking out about why he had opted not to join the senior panel. He was part of the U21s.

http://gaeliclife.com/2011/08/barry-reilly-says-cavan-should-have-beaten-donegal/

In an extract from the Gaelic Life Interview with Barry Reilly, the Cavan and Kingscourt star explains how he is amazed that Donegal got past the Breffni men in the Ulster Senior Football Championship

To read the full, controversial interview, in which Reilly explains why he opted out of the seior panel this year and expresses his concerns about the attitudes among some Cavan players, buy the August 18 issue of Gaelic Life

Crash Bang Wall

In all fairness what is the issue with Brennan and Terry, and if they get on

Whats more important is the quality in the current squad...the likes of Mackey has had discipline problems in the past under a more liberal (for want of a better word) management, and hes dealing with Terry just fine

There are 40-50 lads involved in the squad since the start of the year, and if most are happy with the setup, then IMO it is Keating that has the issue with being told what to do, rather than Terry being out of order

I have heard enough rumours re Keating with regard to club and county football.....while all have been rumours, for me there is no smoke without fire.
Givney is injured AFAIK so thats why hes not involved

Tom Joad

You missed one jampip - the most important one.

Who are these players that have left because of issues with the management?

As I said, plenty have left but I'm not aware of any that left because of issues with the panel.

So in summary you argument was - there is a big anti-Hyland camp in the county - I and others have refuted this - you have then come up with some tinfoil hat stuff about management infiltrating the media and that is why you can't produce any evidence of this.

Next you said that there are clear issues with management and loads of players leaving is evidence of this. Again everyone else is in the dark about this. You focus on one player who is now not playing club football in the county and who has had issues around commitment/ application in the past and another that is in need of an operation.

It's not just me saying it.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

You missed one jampip - the most important one.

Who are these players that have left because of issues with the management?

As I said, plenty have left but I'm not aware of any that left because of issues with the panel.

So in summary you argument was - there is a big anti-Hyland camp in the county - I and others have refuted this - you have then come up with some tinfoil hat stuff about management infiltrating the media and that is why you can't produce any evidence of this.

Next you said that there are clear issues with management and loads of players leaving is evidence of this. Again everyone else is in the dark about this. You focus on one player who is now not playing club football in the county and who has had issues around commitment/ application in the past and another that is in need of an operation.

It's not just me saying it.

Eugene Keating, David Givney, Alan Clarke, Philip Tinnelly and Kevin Tierney are five that immediately spring to mind. In my opinion at least three of those would have been better to bring on than one of the starters on Sunday. 3 of them easily would have been better than the subs that came on. I previously spoke about our weak bench and I think that could be seen on Sunday. You can also pull out all the soundbites. I don't believe those. Maybe I'm a raving lunatic but its my opinion. We'll agree to disagree on it.

Now, you're doing a magnificent job of avoiding all the questions I ask by the way. I don't think you've dealt with one yet. Yet I'm the one "deflecting".

celt262

Jampip wrote: »

Eugene Keating, David Givney, Alan Clarke, Philip Tinnelly and Kevin Tierney

Eugene Keating - Does his own thing and issues with him previously

David Givney - Opted out early as had to have operation

Alan Clarke - Got Married earlier in year and said he could not commit ( was coming near end of his time anyway)

Philip Tinnelly - Wasn't get much game time and said he could not commit

Kevin Tierney - Opted out as is travelling to America for the summer

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

Eugene Keating - Does his own thing and issues with him previously

David Givney - Opted out early as had to have operation

Alan Clarke - Got Married earlier in year and said he could not commit ( was coming near end of his time anyway)

Philip Tinnelly - Wasn't get much game time and said he could not commit

Kevin Tierney - Opted out as is travelling to America for the summer

When you were asked about Givney and Tierney earlier in the year on this very thread:

celt262 wrote: »

What I heard at end of last year was that they were fed up with the style of football and they thought that the management would step down. Keating and Givney are both "injured" at the moment and based in Dublin and in Keating case the story is that with work he hasn't time to commit..

And another:

celt262 wrote: »

No matter what the excuse is it is not good to have lads leaving the panel.

I suppose it suits you now to park your opinion and partake in the public flogging.

celt262

Jampip wrote: »

When you were asked about Givney and Tierney earlier in the year on this very thread:



And another:



I suppose it suits you now to park your opinion and partake in the public flogging.

Not at all and as I said it was what I had heard.

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

Not at all and as I said it was what I had heard.

So you went with being unhappy with any player leaving the panel to being fine with five leaving it this year?

You also weren't very appreciative of Hyland and the style of football last year and posted when talking about the draw:

celt262 wrote: »

This is it now boys a real chance for this group of players and management to get to an Ulster Final. The time for excuses is over and if things don't go well it will be time for some to move on.

That chance is now gone for this group of players so why is it not time for some to move on?

celt262

Jampip wrote: »

So you went with being unhappy with any player leaving the panel to being fine with five leaving it this year?

You also weren't very appreciative of Hyland and the style of football last year and posted when talking about the draw:



That chance is now gone for this group of players so why is it not time for some to move on?

I wouldn't be happy with any leaving it but I realise now that if they cannot commit nothing can be.done to keep them.

I agree it is time for some to move on.

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

I wouldn't be happy with any leaving it but I realise now that if they cannot commit nothing can be.done to keep them.

I agree it is time for some to move on.

Any in particular?

KeepTheFaith

Jampip maybe it got lost in the melee earlier today but I'd be genuinely interested as to why you think McStay or McEntee could bring Cavan to the next level? Also, do you believe that our players are under performing because of poor management?

celt262

Jampip wrote: »

Any in particular?

My day of naming players on this is over if you want send me a pm and I will reply.