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The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.
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I'm sure the Manager has trust in the player and would have spoken to him about doing silly things which end up in Red Cards. It's not that we can assign players to the trash bin after getting sent off.
Do you think that whoever could be brought in to coach the "dark arts" of Ulster football could take a duel role and also coach them in cheating to win frees?
Well talking to him obviously didn't work.
Cheating - being clever - it depends what way you look at it. The fact that club teams in Dublin were getting Martin McHugh to give them coaching in same over a decade ago shows how far we are behind the times IMO.0 -
As I said, we were a man down so I would expect us to find it tough to get scores. As I also said, we have a problem in our full forward line which makes scores hard to come by even with fifteen. Surely you'd admit that playing with a man less makes all aspects of the game more difficult regardless of any other element of the team?I thought that, as against Down, we struggled to get scores on the board against Kildare. They made scoring look effortless at times compared to us as we huffed and puffed to get scores. Re "stupid enough" to concede the goal, iirc the ball should have been cleared and we had more than one opportunity to clear it but it was fumbled.
Do we have a lack of forwards? I think we do in the full forward line but our half forward line of Mackey, Reilly and Dara Mc is strong. In the full forward line, we had Keating last year who plays for Ulster for example but the ball wasn't played into him.
I don't think anyone expects us to go gung ho but there's a happy medium. Hyland doesn't evolve. Last season showed him he has to change as we were easily figured out by Armagh but the change is slow and gradual, again going back to his lack of tactical knowledge IMO.
As a sidenote, the phrase "marquee forward" must be going to enter the dictionary this year. I don't think I've ever heard it trundled out as much as now. What people neglect to realise is that we had a "marquee forward" playing last year but we wouldn't pass the ball into him. He made damn all difference last year but now every time we lose a game it's because we haven't a "marquee forward" like Conor McManus. For god's sake, how many teams have forwards like Conor McManus? It's laughable but its another example of how local media are supporting our management.
When I said forwards I meant ball-winning, scoring forwards and I definitely think we have an issue. We tried to put ball into Keating in Armagh last year and he was snuffed out. We need to have more than one and this year he's not there. All I'm saying is that Hyland is playing the hand he's dealt as best he can.
He may be slow to evolve and maybe it is time for him to move along but I'd be very careful what we wish for. I'm not necessarily accusing you of this but we should all remember the ****e we were watching before 2011.0 -
Well talking to him obviously didn't work.
Cheating - being clever - it depends what way you look at it. The fact that club teams in Dublin were getting Martin McHugh to give them coaching in same over a decade ago shows how far we are behind the times IMO.Well talking to him obviously didn't work.
What would you like the management to have done with the player or any player who has got sent off for similar?Cheating - being clever - it depends what way you look at it. The fact that club teams in Dublin were getting Martin McHugh to give them coaching in same over a decade ago shows how far we are behind the times IMO
I wonder could we get him in for a few sessions.
Do you think that he would be a better coach than Peter Donnelly at teaching the "dark arts" of Ulster football?0 -
Seriously??
The majority of my post is about the fact that the team haven't evolved from two years before, not indiscipline. I have constantly said that the team are naive. Indiscipline of getting a man sent off when your opposition is actually the more physical team is very naive in my opinion and it is still happening us as per the example in the League. Another team bullied us and we were the team with 14 men because of stupidity.
Try and look past what the Cavan media have been feeding you and realise that the points I'm making are valid. Valid enough that I raised six a number of posts ago and you hadn't the answer for any of them yet you still attempt to nitpick my posts now.
You can't have it both ways Tom. You either engage on everything or don't bother.0 -
What would you like the management to have done with the player or any player who has got sent off for similar?
I wonder could we get him in for a few sessions.
Do you think that he would be a better coach than Peter Donnelly at teaching the "dark arts" of Ulster football?
Coach them. Tell them not to let it happen again. Not give them the vice captaincy and then captaincy perhaps. I'd expect them to do what a manager is meant to do in other words. I'd also ask my assistant manager or head coach or whatever he is what example does he think he is setting the players in every game. Do you think he sets a good example?
Well the team are still naive so it doesn't appear Donnelly was very successful if he did attempt to teach these "dark arts". Would it not agree that we lack an edge that counties like Monaghan, Donegal, Armagh, Fermanagh, Tyrone and even Kildare have?0 -
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Slobberdawn wrote: »As I said, we were a man down so I would expect us to find it tough to get scores. As I also said, we have a problem in our full forward line which makes scores hard to come by even with fifteen. Surely you'd admit that playing with a man less makes all aspects of the game more difficult regardless of any other element of the team?
When I said forwards I meant ball-winning, scoring forwards and I definitely think we have an issue. We tried to put ball into Keating in Armagh last year and he was snuffed out. We need to have more than one and this year he's not there. All I'm saying is that Hyland is playing the hand he's dealt as best he can.
He may be slow to evolve and maybe it is time for him to move along but I'd be very careful what we wish for. I'm not necessarily accusing you of this but we should all remember the ****e we were watching before 2011.
I still don't get your point though and why you keep going back to the fact that we were a man down. We were a man down through own own making. Nobody forced us to play with 14 players. Plenty of teams play matches with 14 players and win. Of course it makes the game more difficult. Do I think us having 14 men overly effected our scoring that evening? No, as you've said yourself, whether we have 14 or 15, we struggle to score and there are games where it would have ya near tears watching us. Lads like Martin Reilly that are more than fit to take a score taking an extra pass when they should shoot.
Keating is a ball winning, scoring forward. Niall McDermott is also. People blame the full forward line but our problem is we don't move the ball quickly enough. We haven't fantastic forwards alright but we're so slow at moving the ball forward that the opposition have time to funnell back and cover the forwards we do have. McGeeney realised it a year ago and other managers have realised it since. This is a problem that could be levelled at Terry since he took over and yet again its another one he hasn't worked on. There's no excuse for it either - as I said previously on this forum, we have good ball carrying players like McKiernan, Clarke, McEnroe, Flanagan, Mackey, Reilly and McVeety. It'd be a lot easier if the ball was passed to our forwards while some space was still available.
In fairness, pre 2011, we didn't have the players we do now. People blame the succession of managers and we did have some terrible ones but the panel they were working with was poor. As I said yesterday, we now have a far better panel with a solid spine to it.0 -
Ah yeah, you're not too far wrong in what you say.I still don't get your point though and why you keep going back to the fact that we were a man down. We were a man down through own own making. Nobody forced us to play with 14 players. Plenty of teams play matches with 14 players and win. Of course it makes the game more difficult. Do I think us having 14 men overly effected our scoring that evening? No, as you've said yourself, whether we have 14 or 15, we struggle to score and there are games where it would have ya near tears watching us. Lads like Martin Reilly that are more than fit to take a score taking an extra pass when they should shoot.
Keating is a ball winning, scoring forward. Niall McDermott is also. People blame the full forward line but our problem is we don't move the ball quickly enough. We haven't fantastic forwards alright but we're so slow at moving the ball forward that the opposition have time to funnell back and cover the forwards we do have. McGeeney realised it a year ago and other managers have realised it since. This is a problem that could be levelled at Terry since he took over and yet again its another one he hasn't worked on. There's no excuse for it either - as I said previously on this forum, we have good ball carrying players like McKiernan, Clarke, McEnroe, Flanagan, Mackey, Reilly and McVeety. It'd be a lot easier if the ball was passed to our forwards while some space was still available.
In fairness, pre 2011, we didn't have the players we do now. People blame the succession of managers and we did have some terrible ones but the panel they were working with was poor. As I said yesterday, we now have a far better panel with a solid spine to it.
Without labouring the 14 man point, I was just pointing out that the madness of one player turned the game from one I feel we'd have won into one that we were going to struggle to win. To mention a game we lost and to exclude that fact is wrong in my opinion.
With regards to the forwards, Terry clearly set out to make sure we were tough to beat. The problem with that is then trying to change that mentality and approach slowly while trying to hold on to the "hard to beat" factor that you've worked hard to achieve. To change too quickly might ruin some of the foundation you've layed.
We had plenty of good players pre-2011. We lacked a full-back for a long time but we still had Mackey, R Flanagan, McKeever, McCutcheon, Podge, Johnston, Lyng, Brennan. The reason we have a good team now stems from the work Hyland and his helpers did at underage.0 -
Regarding discipline, many fine players play on the edge and sometimes they cross it. Taming them is a waste of time. See the likes of Paul Galvin, Roy Keane in soccer. Maybe Hyland is willing to take the good with the bad for Reilly?0
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Lads are we actually discussing whether it's a problem that a player got a red card in two games that were played TWO YEARS apart!?0
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KeepTheFaith wrote: »Lads are we actually discussing whether it's a problem that a player got a red card in two games that were played TWO YEARS apart!?
No, we're discussing how the present management structure have been in place since 2011 yet the team are still ponderous in play, naive, lack a physical edge and had the "marquee forward" everyone suddenly craves last year but he made damn all difference.
Yes, the team moved forward in 2013 and it could be argued 2014 league but we've hit a brick wall now.
The Cavan team move with about as much momentum as you lads did when it came to answering my six numbered points above. It's easy to sit on the sideline and take swipes but not one of ye, and I'm including choosy Tom In this that thanked your post, had the balls to take on the questions posed. Yas are like one of the Cavan team looking for a sideways pass last year when the ball needs to be driven down the pitch.
Oh yeah, I forgot, none of this discussion about Cavan GAA management is relevant to the thread titled "Official Cavan GAA Thread", that right Tom?0 -
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That's enough internet for you today Jampip..0
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KeepTheFaith wrote: »Lads are we actually discussing whether it's a problem that a player got a red card in two games that were played TWO YEARS apart!?
Yep but he is shying away from it now!0 -
Jampip, I'm relatively new to this board but it seemed like a civil place to discuss Cavan football compared to that despicable Hogan Stand.No, we're discussing how the present management structure have been in place since 2011 yet the team are still ponderous in play, naive, lack a physical edge and had the "marquee forward" everyone suddenly craves last year but he made damn all difference.
Yes, the team moved forward in 2013 and it could be argued 2014 league but we've hit a brick wall now.
The Cavan team move with about as much momentum as you lads did when it came to answering my six numbered points above. It's easy to sit on the sideline and take swipes but not one of ye, and I'm including choosy Tom In this that thanked your post, had the balls to take on the questions posed. Yas are like one of the Cavan team looking for a sideways pass last year when the ball needs to be driven down the pitch.
Oh yeah, I forgot, none of this discussion about Cavan GAA management is relevant to the thread titled "Official Cavan GAA Thread", that right Tom?
I've addressed the posts you've directed at me so if you must take strangely aggressive swipes at people try to be more specific rather than using the one brush.0 -
Yep but he is shying away from it now!
There's a response above for you. I'm shying away from nothing. The team hasn't evolved enough in three years now. That's the point throughout the thread and it's still the point now.
We're too slow at moving the ball and naive when other teams bully us physically.0 -
Slobberdawn wrote: »Jampip, I'm relatively new to this board but it seemed like a civil place to discuss Cavan football compared to that despicable Hogan Stand.
I've addressed the posts you've directed at me so if you must take strangely aggressive swipes at people try to be more specific rather than using the one brush.
No problem at all with you Slobberdawn. You answer a question when it is put to you.
Others are not willing to enter into reasoned debate.0 -
Slobberdawn wrote: »Ah yeah, you're not too far wrong in what you say.
Without labouring the 14 man point, I was just pointing out that the madness of one player turned the game from one I feel we'd have won into one that we were going to struggle to win. To mention a game we lost and to exclude that fact is wrong in my opinion.
With regards to the forwards, Terry clearly set out to make sure we were tough to beat. The problem with that is then trying to change that mentality and approach slowly while trying to hold on to the "hard to beat" factor that you've worked hard to achieve. To change too quickly might ruin some of the foundation you've layed.
We had plenty of good players pre-2011. We lacked a full-back for a long time but we still had Mackey, R Flanagan, McKeever, McCutcheon, Podge, Johnston, Lyng, Brennan. The reason we have a good team now stems from the work Hyland and his helpers did at underage.
Mackey, McKeever and Johnston weren't applying themselves. All three were dropped at the end of 2011 by the present management structure.
McCutcheon, Lyng, Brennan and Podge were decent but fairly ordinary players tbh. Lyng's best days were back in 04-05 before injuries took their toll. Nothing compared to the players we have now.
There was also the attitude problem and Terry has to take plaudits for that. Our county team were once more preoccupied with organising their transport to the pub after matches than the matches themselves, and that description came from a county player. They just didn't care win, lose or draw.
Last season though we weren't even hard to beat. Armagh disposed of us easily. I'll leave the Roscommon game out because we were crippled with injuries to be fair to management.0 -
I think it will be important not to take London for granted. Mayo nearly got caught out a few years ago in Ruislip, they gave us plenty of it in Croker in 2013 and we really only pulled away in the final 10 or so. If the team are fully focussed and settled we should be winning this by 5 plus. I wonder will Argue be deployed at Full Forward again or was that a tactic especially for the Monaghan game?0
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No, we're discussing how the present management structure have been in place since 2011 yet the team are still ponderous in play, naive, lack a physical edge and had the "marquee forward" everyone suddenly craves last year but he made damn all difference.
Can we clarify who this is?
I'm being serious.
For me, a "marquee forward" (to use current media parlance-in my day, it was simply a top class forward) is the type that would pretty much walk into any inter county team
The top teams are lucky to have one or two. At the moment, the very best (Dublin, for example) have 3 or more
By top class I mean someone who puts the fear of god into the opposition. Consistent, and even on an off day, troubles the opposition.
So who is this player we have that you speak of?
You've spoken some balderdash about Mc Kiernan not being a midfielder so id like to hear about this forward is that you speak of0 -
I'd also ask my assistant manager or head coach or whatever he is what example does he think he is setting the players in every game. Do you think he sets a good example?
I already said here that Forde needs to behave.
Well the team are still naive so it doesn't appear Donnelly was very successful if he did attempt to teach these "dark arts". Would it not agree that we lack an edge that counties like Monaghan, Donegal, Armagh, Fermanagh, Tyrone and even Kildare have?[/QUOTE]
Maybe that's down to individuals some players don't have that edge to their game.
Hopefully we can get a "dark arts" coach in for next year.0 -
Mod: Jampip - Tone down the agressive posting and post in a civil manner. Posters have a life outside Boards and are not here 24/7 to answer your questions. You do not get to demand who engages on what issues. Do not argue this on thread with me - if you have an issue with this engage via PM or ask another mod to have a look. /Mod
When I get a chance later on I will post further as a regular poster as I have real life stuff to do.0 -
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baconsarnie wrote: »Can we clarify who this is?
I'm being serious.
For me, a "marquee forward" (to use current media parlance-in my day, it was simply a top class forward) is the type that would pretty much walk into any inter county team
The top teams are lucky to have one or two. At the moment, the very best (Dublin, for example) have 3 or more
By top class I mean someone who puts the fear of god into the opposition. Consistent, and even on an off day, troubles the opposition.
So who is this player we have that you speak of?
You've spoken some balderdash about Mc Kiernan not being a midfielder so id like to hear about this forward is that you speak of
Eugene Keating has the potential to be a top class forward. Ulster All Star two years ago. 5 points from play on McGee in 2012 when Cavan were poor. Played for Ulster in 2014 in a full forward line alongside McManus and Murphy and held his own.
I've explained my points about McKiernan not playing midfield. Engage on them if you want to. I don't recall any comments from you when I raised the point so don't just label it "balderdash". What's your opinion regarding McKiernan's lack of mobility or that he struggles to even last 50 minutes at midfield? If he's key at midfield, why did he play the majority of the Monaghan game at centre half forward?KeepTheFaith wrote: »I think it will be important not to take London for granted. Mayo nearly got caught out a few years ago in Ruislip, they gave us plenty of it in Croker in 2013 and we really only pulled away in the final 10 or so. If the team are fully focussed and settled we should be winning this by 5 plus. I wonder will Argue be deployed at Full Forward again or was that a tactic especially for the Monaghan game?
I think we could see Killian Clarke at full forward if he's fit. I believe that was the original plan for the Monaghan game.0 -
I already said here that Forde needs to behave.
Well the team are still naive so it doesn't appear Donnelly was very successful if he did attempt to teach these "dark arts". Would it not agree that we lack an edge that counties like Monaghan, Donegal, Armagh, Fermanagh, Tyrone and even Kildare have?
Maybe that's down to individuals some players don't have that edge to their game.
Hopefully we can get a "dark arts" coach in for next year.
I hear Professor Snape is looking for a role like this...0 -
KeepTheFaith wrote: »[/B]
Maybe that's down to individuals some players don't have that edge to their game.
Hopefully we can get a "dark arts" coach in for next year.
I hear Professor Snape is looking for a role like this...[/QUOTE]
Well then if it's an area we are clearly lacking in, which I believe it is, surely management need to look at bringing in individuals from the county who have this edge?
I don't think yas are seeing the point here lads - Terry Hyland is in situ since 2010/2011 and in sole charge since 2012. Some of our key problems are the same as they were then and its his job IMO to improve these problems.0 -
You previously attempted to criticise me for failing to answer your questions.
No you are mistaken in this. You made statements and presented them as fact - I disputed them (as did several other posters) and asked you to provide evidence of these facts. There is a clear distinction between that and asking random questions
I'm really not sure why you are so anxious to have my views on your questions but if you really want/ value my opinion, that's fine - I'll attempt to address them as best I can below.
Thank youI've listed them below for you to make it easy.You refuted there was any "anti-Hyland camp" in the county. There may be a lot of crap on Hogan Stand but it clearly disproves your point. There are a vast number of supporters who criticise Terry on it. I've also pointed out the Celt article above. Paul Fitzpatrick felt the need to write a colum titled ""Lay off this senior team setup" this week in the Celt. So, as I asked above and you conveniently ignored again, who is he addressing if there's no anti Hyland camp? I've put this question for you again below so you don't conveniently miss it.
Disclaimer: As these are opinions I do not have back-up links/ evidence to support my arguments - these are just my views.
Yes I do refute it because as far as I'm aware the players are happy with the set-up (as evidence no players have left, including Gilly btw, despite the long lead in time to the qualifiers) which I think is fairly unique in our history. AFAIK the county board are happy, no evidence on social media (except Rosie Crowe opined on facebook that she thought Mark should have been brought on in the Monaghan game - how embarrassing must that be for Mark btw), local or national media of player or county board unhappiness. There are a few keyboard warriors on HoganStand and a very small amount here that seem to be calling for the manager's head. Hardly anything to worry about in my opinion. I have absolutely no idea what motivates Paul Fitzpatrick to write his articles but I know he reads here (Hi Paul btw) - maybe he might sign up and answer for himself - would be a very valuable addition to the forum. I know Paul and to be fair Terry and Val Andrews before him have spoken out about some of the things said on Social Media which the players read and the damage it can do. So at a guess maybe it was a cut at the keyboard warriors??Celt262 commented back in January "What I heard at end of last year was that they were fed up with the style of football and they thought that the management would step down. Keating and Givney are both "injured" at the moment and based in Dublin and in Keating case the story is that with work he hasn't time to commit" and Crash Bang Wall said "I have heard enough rumours re Keating with regard to club and county football.....while all have been rumours, for me there is no smoke without fire". What were they saying then? That to me is saying they heard other than what was stated to the media about "work commitments".
I can't answer for Celt262 but I would put it that Givney needs an operation and that is why he is not involved. I took what CBW said as meaning that the issue may well be with Keating not Terry but again I can't answer for another poster. Overall I'm not sure what your point is here. Have me moved from lots of players walking away to just focussing on one player - who has had past "commitment issues" and is allegedly unhappy with the County Board about not getting his transfer. You might read between the lines and understand why I don't think you can attach blame to Terry Hyland for this.
In my opinion, you're not responding because you simply don't have the answers to what has been asked. No, I fail to see the relevance of the questions or why you want my opinion so badly to be perfectly honest
Now back to:
I've numbered them here so you can number your responses:
1. Well, there's one question I have asked repeatedly after you said you had numberous[sic] examples, So, I'll ask the question again, have you any examples of players who spoke out about active managers after leaving a panel?
I have answered this repeatedly - that is not what I said. I had to google it tbh and provided you with the google search - I'm not going to spoonfeed you.
2. I also asked you about the media. Is it normal for a team to bring commentators and reporters to a "training camp" and immerse them with the team? Absolutely no idea on this one but in my opinion it wasn't really a training camp - it was more a trip to New York on the invite of Cavan expats to play in a tournament for which as I understand it the County Board did not have to fork out for so it's not really a "training camp" so maybe a little unfair to make that direct comparison
3. Why hasn't Terry done something about his assistant making an idiot out of himself on the sideline in every game? I don't know how his head coach, or selector or whatever he is can even be watching the game when he is busy throwing himself around the place. Any favour we could hope to have from the officials is also quick to disappear I would think.
No idea again to be perfectly honest. I usually go to the terraces so don't get a close look but don't disagree with your point. I will say though that the official in question is a gentleman off the field and is and always was as a player highly regarded by players and officials alike so they obviously think he has something to offer
4. Paul Fitzpatrick felt the need to write a colum titled ""Lay off this senior team setup" this week in the Celt. So, as I asked above and you conveniently ignored again, who is he addressing if there's no anti Hyland camp?
See above
5. The fact is that others could see that Argue at full forward was not working at half time and stated Cavan needed to either 1) move him out or 2) move a player in to play off him. Hyland did nothing though. If Joe Brolly, Joe Kiernan and Tomas O'Se could see this, why couldn't Terry?
If managers listened to every hurler in the ditch about what they should or shouldn't do in a match, where would we be? And using the example of those three is hardly making a watertight argument. I think the article Celt262 posted is a far better analysis of the game that anything offered by the three you mentioned. Btw the lad beside me at the match kept shouting "Let it in ta feck" - I think he should be a selector
6. Celt262 commented back in January "What I heard at end of last year was that they were fed up with the style of football and they thought that the management would step down. Keating and Givney are both "injured" at the moment and based in Dublin and in Keating case the story is that with work he hasn't time to commit" and Crash Bang Wall said "I have heard enough rumours re Keating with regard to club and county football.....while all have been rumours, for me there is no smoke without fire". What were they saying then? That to me is saying they heard other than what was stated to the media about "work commitments".
See above0 -
Eugene Keating has the potential to be a top class forward. Ulster All Star two years ago. 5 points from play on McGee in 2012 when Cavan were poor. Played for Ulster in 2014 in a full forward line alongside McManus and Murphy and held his own.
I've explained my points about McKiernan not playing midfield. Engage on them if you want to. I don't recall any comments from you when I raised the point so don't just label it "balderdash". What's your opinion regarding McKiernan's lack of mobility or that he struggles to even last 50 minutes at midfield? If he's key at midfield, why did he play the majority of the Monaghan game at centre half forward?
I think we could see Killian Clarke at full forward if he's fit. I believe that was the original plan for the Monaghan game.
Scoring 5 points in a once off game means next to nothing nothing when it comes to calling a player top class. Keating went missing against Monaghan and starting hitting Hail Mary shots when the game was in the melting pot, McManus was at the other end slotting them over. He missed a completely open goal against London which was probably the worst miss every seen in Croke Park. He was clueless against Kerry. League Final against Roscommon he was dreadful too. Playing for Ulster in a Mickey Mouse competition means very little too, Givney played midfield and he's distinctly average as midfielders go.
Now Keating has had some very very good games for Cavan and I could never fault him for effort. He's definitely worth his place if he was part of the panel but let's not make him into something he's not. He's about 26 now and the holes in his game (poor shot selection, lack of vision, lack of a turn) haven't improved much at all. He's doesn't and I don't think will ever have the footballing brain to be top class. He's probably more like Sean Quigley from Fermanagh than Jamie Clarke, McBrearty, McManus etc. How you could call him a marquee forward is baffling.0 -
Sean Quigley is a very good forward, almost top class.0
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Perhaps Ryan Carson would be a more appropriate comparison if we're comparing him to a Fermanagh man.0
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Keating has a lot of potential but he is at a critical point in his career if he is to become a top class foward and maybe playing in Dublin might bring him on a lot but he is in my view a long long way of a "marquee forward". He's no Conor McManus - nor in my book is Sean Quigley.
Few interesting posts on Gearoid McKiernan - for me he is a midfielder all day long and does his best work carrying ball from deep. He has had two serious injuries and long lay offs so would be hopeful that he will come back to his best or is there an element of lack of confidence in the body to hold up and that is why he is not pushing forward as much.
I think we will see Killian Clarke as a number 14 when he is back with Argue as a half forward/ third midfielder.0 -
No you are mistaken in this. You made statements and presented them as fact - I disputed them (as did several other posters) and asked you to provide evidence of these facts. There is a clear distinction between that and asking random questions
Disclaimer: As these are opinions I do not have back-up links/ evidence to support my arguments - these are just my views.
Yes I do refute it because as far as I'm aware the players are happy with the set-up (as evidence no players have left, including Gilly btw, despite the long lead in time to the qualifiers) which I think is fairly unique in our history. AFAIK the county board are happy, no evidence on social media (except Rosie Crowe opined on facebook that she thought Mark should have been brought on in the Monaghan game - how embarrassing must that be for Mark btw), local or national media of player or county board unhappiness. There are a few keyboard warriors on HoganStand and a very small amount here that seem to be calling for the manager's head. Hardly anything to worry about in my opinion. I have absolutely no idea what motivates Paul Fitzpatrick to write his articles but I know he reads here (Hi Paul btw) - maybe he might sign up and answer for himself - would be a very valuable addition to the forum. I know Paul and to be fair Terry and Val Andrews before him have spoken out about some of the things said on Social Media which the players read and the damage it can do. So at a guess maybe it was a cut at the keyboard warriors??
I can't answer for Celt262 but I would put it that Givney needs an operation and that is why he is not involved. I took what CBW said as meaning that the issue may well be with Keating not Terry but again I can't answer for another poster. Overall I'm not sure what your point is here. Have me moved from lots of players walking away to just focussing on one player - who has had past "commitment issues" and is allegedly unhappy with the County Board about not getting his transfer. You might read between the lines and understand why I don't think you can attach blame to Terry Hyland for this.
I don't think any "keyboard warriors" here called for Terry's head. A non too thinly veiled dig at me there I presume. Where did I call for management's head? I said what I have heard form numerous people this year - That Terry and Forde will be moving on at the end of the year and, while I respect what they've done, I also think a change of the guard is needed.
Again, the articles you posted to were about Val Andrews were actually about the players stating they didn't have a meeting to oust him. No players spoke out publicly against him while he was in charge. The other example you gave is from 1999 and is not relevant to now. As I previously pointed out, players like Michael Argue were 4 or 5 in 1999! It is rare that players take to social media to attack management while they are still in situ. They might say something when management have moved but not during their term.
I don't think this was "every hurler in the ditch" giving an opinion. These were respected players and managers who could see a hole in Cavan's tactics. You previously asked why I didn't mind Terry going and IMO I pointed out that his tactical knowledge can be poor.0 -
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KeepTheFaith wrote: »Scoring 5 points in a once off game means next to nothing nothing when it comes to calling a player top class. Keating went missing against Monaghan and starting hitting Hail Mary shots when the game was in the melting pot, McManus was at the other end slotting them over. He missed a completely open goal against London which was probably the worst miss every seen in Croke Park. He was clueless against Kerry. League Final against Roscommon he was dreadful too. Playing for Ulster in a Mickey Mouse competition means very little too, Givney played midfield and he's distinctly average as midfielders go.
Now Keating has had some very very good games for Cavan and I could never fault him for effort. He's definitely worth his place if he was part of the panel but let's not make him into something he's not. He's about 26 now and the holes in his game (poor shot selection, lack of vision, lack of a turn) haven't improved much at all. He's doesn't and I don't think will ever have the footballing brain to be top class. He's probably more like Sean Quigley from Fermanagh than Jamie Clarke, McBrearty, McManus etc. How you could call him a marquee forward is baffling.
It depends on your view of the term "marquee forward". When I googled the term for example, I saw an article stating Martin Penrose was a marquee forward for Tyrone.
Re the London miss, not sure it can be included, it was a square ball if he'd put it in the net so wouldn't have been a score anyway.
Keating is 25. Just gone 25 actually. He should now be moving into his prime. The likes of even Bernard Brogan took a few years to get going for Dublin (not for a second am I saying he will reach that ability).
For me, he's the forward opposition players fear. Just typing his name into Google, and there's an article saying Tyrone need to watch him in the McKenna Cup final last year (linked below). When Roscommon came up to play us in the qualifiers, he was the man on the lips of any Rossie supporter I spoke to.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/cavan/eugene-keating-the-player-tyrone-must-stop-in-final-29946145.html
You talk about his poor games but what about the Armagh game in 2013 where he was winning the balls that Dunne put over the bar? Or the Fermanagh game where he scored vital points at key times? Or the Sligo league match in 2012 where he came off the bench for the last ten minutes and rescued a point with a fisted goal?
I believe he was never fully fit last year as he was rushed back a number of times from injury. The same also happened Mackey IMO. He still doesn't look fully fit for me.0
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