The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

KeepTheFaith

Jampip you seem very concerned about what others say about our players and our management decisions. You rely on articles written by others to make your decisions, it's something you mention quite a lot in any discussion.

I wouldn't leave much value on what Tyrone people or Roscommon people think of Keating. How often do they see him play? I can make my judgement myself based on the games I've seen him play (which is a lot more than any of the aforementioned) as I'm sure can most Cavan supporters and he is not what I would call marquee or top quality, he's quite a bit off that.

In the last round of the league a few years ago we were playing Tipp in the final game and we had to win. Keating was playing a deeper role but scored some oustanding points that day and I really thought if he continued like that he'd be a serious addition to the team. The more I saw of him though the more obvious the holes in his games became. I'm not denying he's contributed over the past few years, he's capable of getting some wonder scores on his day.
He got one during the Dongeal game near the start when Cavan were competing well and was saluting the crowd, 10 minutes or so into the game. There's a bit of arrogance about him which is grand but when the real pressure in big games comes on, he's been found wanting and the errors become more apparent; wasteful in possession, poor shot selection.

Don't get me wrong I think Keating is well up to the standard of the Cavan team. He did play very well against Armagh in 2013 but to be fair he was inside with loads of space in front of him, a situation which he will probably never again find himself in again in the Ulster Championship. When the real pressure came on against Monaghan in the Semi Final he failed to come up with the goods. He did well against Fermanagh but was poor against London and worse against Kerry.

Keating is good and I wish he had committed this year, but he's a long way off being top class. I can't speak for every Cavan supporter but when I bemoan the lack of a top class or marquee forward, I'm not thinking of Eugene Keating level.

Tom Joad

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Jampip you seem very concerned about what others say about our players and our management decisions. You rely on articles written by others to make your decisions, it's something you mention quite a lot in any discussion.

I wouldn't leave much value on what Tyrone people or Roscommon people think of Keating. How often do they see him play? I can make my judgement myself based on the games I've seen him play (which is a lot more than any of the aforementioned) as I'm sure can most Cavan supporters and he is not what I would call marquee or top quality, he's quite a bit off that.

In the last round of the league a few years ago we were playing Tipp in the final game and we had to win. Keating was playing a deeper role but scored some oustanding points that day and I really thought if he continued like that he'd be a serious addition to the team. The more I saw of him though the more obvious the holes in his games became. I'm not denying he's contributed over the past few years, he's capable of getting some wonder scores on his day.
He got one during the Dongeal game near the start when Cavan were competing well and was saluting the crowd, 10 minutes or so into the game. There's a bit of arrogance about him which is grand but when the real pressure in big games comes on, he's been found wanting and the errors become more apparent; wasteful in possession, poor shot selection.

Don't get me wrong I think Keating is well up to the standard of the Cavan team. He did play very well against Armagh in 2013 but to be fair he was inside with loads of space in front of him, a situation which he will probably never again find himself in again in the Ulster Championship. When the real pressure came on against Monaghan in the Semi Final he failed to come up with the goods. He did well against Fermanagh but was poor against London and worse against Kerry.

Keating is good and I wish he had committed this year, but he's a long way off being top class. I can't speak for every Cavan supporter but when I bemoan the lack of a top class or marquee forward, I'm not thinking of Eugene Keating level.

Would agree with you re Keating - bags of potential but just can't see him being the top class forward we crave.

Really not sure where they are going to come from. Looking at the players not involved currently , Joe Dillon has potential, Conor Madden has showed promise, TED from the minors. Other than that I'm struggling tbh. I still think that Niall McDermott is the most naturally talented forward in the county. Where is Ryan Connolly btw - another classy forward.

celt262

Tom Joad wrote: »

Would agree with you re Keating - bags of potential but just can't see him being the top class forward we crave.

Really not sure where they are going to come from. Looking at the players not involved currently , Joe Dillon has potential, Conor Madden has showed promise, TED from the minors. Other than that I'm struggling tbh. I still think that Niall McDermott is the most naturally talented forward in the county. Where is Ryan Connolly btw - another classy forward.

Wouldn't agree with you on McDermott he seems to get most of his scores from frees and his general play is poor enough fumbles a lot of ball and goes into contact and losses ball to often. Not near as natural a player as Martin Dunne.

If we could get 2-3 very good inside forwards I would be happier than if we had 1 Connor McManus.

Tom Joad

celt262 wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with you on McDermott he seems to get most of his scores from frees and his general play is poor enough fumbles a lot of ball and goes into contact and losses ball to often. Not near as natural a player as Martin Dunne.

If we could get 2-3 very good inside forwards I would be happier than if we had 1 Connor McManus.

Should have been clearer on that - in club football McDermott is the most natural forward in the county in my view - and yes I personally would put him ahead of Martin Dunne in that. Unfortunately we've only really seen glimpses of what he can do for the county team.

Would agree on the second bit - I just don't know where they are or are coming from.

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Jampip you seem very concerned about what others say about our players and our management decisions. You rely on articles written by others to make your decisions, it's something you mention quite a lot in any discussion.

I wouldn't leave much value on what Tyrone people or Roscommon people think of Keating. How often do they see him play? I can make my judgement myself based on the games I've seen him play (which is a lot more than any of the aforementioned) as I'm sure can most Cavan supporters and he is not what I would call marquee or top quality, he's quite a bit off that.

In the last round of the league a few years ago we were playing Tipp in the final game and we had to win. Keating was playing a deeper role but scored some oustanding points that day and I really thought if he continued like that he'd be a serious addition to the team. The more I saw of him though the more obvious the holes in his games became. I'm not denying he's contributed over the past few years, he's capable of getting some wonder scores on his day.
He got one during the Dongeal game near the start when Cavan were competing well and was saluting the crowd, 10 minutes or so into the game. There's a bit of arrogance about him which is grand but when the real pressure in big games comes on, he's been found wanting and the errors become more apparent; wasteful in possession, poor shot selection.

Don't get me wrong I think Keating is well up to the standard of the Cavan team. He did play very well against Armagh in 2013 but to be fair he was inside with loads of space in front of him, a situation which he will probably never again find himself in again in the Ulster Championship. When the real pressure came on against Monaghan in the Semi Final he failed to come up with the goods. He did well against Fermanagh but was poor against London and worse against Kerry.

Keating is good and I wish he had committed this year, but he's a long way off being top class. I can't speak for every Cavan supporter but when I bemoan the lack of a top class or marquee forward, I'm not thinking of Eugene Keating level.

I don't rely on articles written by anyone. I attend games. However, as per any argument, if there's a written article with the opinion of another that backs up your own, why not include it in your argument? It's basic debating.

The article wasn't the writings of a Tyrone person. It was a reporter pointing out how Keating was Cavan's danger forward in the McKenna Cup last year, despite not being fit IMO. It's right of you to trust your own opinion but my points stands that Keating was the forward that other team's feared. We've no-one like that now. Who from our full forward line would people have even known against Monaghan? Repeatedly on both RTE and BBC, Martin Dunne was mentioned.

The entire team were poor against London bar Mossy Corr iirc. The occasion really got to them. Against Kerry, Hyland has admitted he got the tactics wrong by playing too defensively. Keating even had to move out the pitch because the ball wasn't going in.

I'd also point out that Keating was good enough for a club like Kilmacud Crokes, All Ireland club champions in 08-09, to come looking for him.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Should have been clearer on that - in club football McDermott is the most natural forward in the county in my view - and yes I personally would put him ahead of Martin Dunne in that. Unfortunately we've only really seen glimpses of what he can do for the county team.

Would agree on the second bit - I just don't know where they are or are coming from.

I wouldn't read too much into Cavan club football and that's the difficulty tbh. We see every year in the Ulster club championship how diabolical the level is in Cavan.

Look how Mullahoran fared two years ago for example. Hammered out the gate by the Tyrone champions.

celt262

Jampip wrote: »

I wouldn't read too much into Cavan club football and that's the difficulty tbh. We see every year in the Ulster club championship how diabolical the level is in Cavan.

Look how Mullahoran fared two years ago for example. Hammered out the gate by the Tyrone champions.

On Club football something needs to be done about the structures as the amount of competitive games players are getting is a joke.

Also the club championships need to be restructured as there are far to many teams in the Senior Championship. There are probably 6 teams to many in it.

Drumalee are in it this year and by the looks of it wouldn't give a team a decent game if they were in the Intermediate.

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

On Club football something needs to be done about the structures as the amount of competitive games players are getting is a joke.

Also the club championships need to be restructured as there are far to many teams in the Senior Championship. There are probably 6 teams to many in it.

Drumalee are in it this year and by the looks of it wouldn't give a team a decent game if they were in the Intermediate.

I'm a recent poster on this thread but have been following it for years and I'd say that's about the zillionth time that has been said! It's not going to change though sadly.

Tom Joad

Jampip wrote: »

I'm a recent poster on this thread but have been following it for years and I'd say that's about the zillionth time that has been said! It's not going to change though sadly.

At last something we can all agree on but agree that it's not going to change anytime soon. It's a shame as I think the Quinn report gave a good workable model for club football.

celt262

Tom Joad wrote: »

At last something we can all agree on but agree that it's not going to change anytime soon. It's a shame as I think the Quinn report gave a good workable model for club football.

And that is one stick the county board cannot be beat with.

Jampip

My hope is that management will use some of the extended panel next weekend. Perhaps not in the starting line up as the lads that are there deserve to start but I'd like to see all 5 substitutions used and utilised early enough that they can get a chance to show what they're made of.

Josh Hayes, Barry Reilly, Jack Brady and Mark McKeever should all at least get a decent run to stake a claim.

People talk of a potential banana skin and any game is but the reality is that we have to expect to be able to beat London soundly.

KeepTheFaith

Jampip wrote: »

I don't rely on articles written by anyone. I attend games. However, as per any argument, if there's a written article with the opinion of another that backs up your own, why not include it in your argument? It's basic debating.

The article wasn't the writings of a Tyrone person. It was a reporter pointing out how Keating was Cavan's danger forward in the McKenna Cup last year, despite not being fit IMO. It's right of you to trust your own opinion but my points stands that Keating was the forward that other team's feared. We've no-one like that now. Who from our full forward line would people have even known against Monaghan? Repeatedly on both RTE and BBC, Martin Dunne was mentioned.

The entire team were poor against London bar Mossy Corr iirc. The occasion really got to them. Against Kerry, Hyland has admitted he got the tactics wrong by playing too defensively. Keating even had to move out the pitch because the ball wasn't going in.

I'd also point out that Keating was good enough for a club like Kilmacud Crokes, All Ireland club champions in 08-09, to come looking for him.

So you think Keating is a top class/marquee forward? And let's not drag this into a debate on the meaning of those terms, they're like an elephant; hard to describe but you know one when you see it.

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

So you think Keating is a top class/marquee forward? And let's not drag this into a debate on the meaning of those terms, they're like an elephant; hard to describe but you know one when you see it.

Yes, I do.

paddyjoer

I think Cavan are a good bet to beat London by more than 7 points. Any opinions

Jampip

paddyjoer wrote: »

I think Cavan are a good bet to beat London by more than 7 points. Any opinions

I wouldn't count on it tbh. We're a low scoring team. Roscommon only beat them by 7 points and they would have a better functioning forward line than we do.

Slobberdawn

Agreed, I've seen safer bets.

ichy

Cavan will win by more than 7 I think. If Mulvey is their best player then they must be mediocre

Jampip

ichy wrote: »

Cavan will win by more than 7 I think. If Mulvey is their best player then they must be mediocre

I'd love to see it but it would be out of character for this Cavan side to hammer a team.

Two years ago we were well ahead of Fermanagh in the qualifier in Breffni and started passing the ball sideways and holding it in a possession game rather than continuing to push forward.

I haven't seen anything to presume we'd do any different now.

Jampip

Here's one to get a bit of discussion going again, what team would you pick for this weekend. My team would be:

Galligan
McLoughlin
Dunne
Hayes
F. Flanagan
McEnroe
R. Flanagan
Mossy Corr
Killian Clarke
Michael Argue
Martin Reilly
Dara Mc
Niall McDermott
Gearoid McKiernan
Martin Dunne

Cian Mackey, Jack Brady, Mark McKeever, Damien Reilly and Barry Reilly all to come on early in the second half.

People may find Mackey on the bench strange but I think we need to hold at least one of our big guns in reserve for when we're struggling in the second half of a match. Mackey isn't fit for 70 minutes so I'd prefer to have him for 30 minutes when the game is in the melting pot (shouldn't be the case this weekend but for future fixtures).

McKiernan at full forward will also be divisive as has already been discussed on here but I'd like to see it tried at least. There's no reason he, Clarke and Argue can't rotate a bit.

Fergal Flanagan isn't a corner back for me. Hayes deserves the position in my opinion and should start, Damien Reilly being the one to lose out. Again though, Reilly provides adequate cover for any of our half backs or a midfielder.

Re Dunne, we're on the easier side of the draw so the majority of teams it appears we'll be facing for the first 3/4 games are Division 4, 3 and lower level Division 2 sides so Dunne should be able to do a job. It's against the top class teams that he struggles. Jack Brady should get at least a half hour against London too IMO, perhaps for Niall McDermott because we know what McDermott offers.

Bear on the square

Cavan played Dublin in a challenge last Tuesday. Beat by 3 points in the end. It must be said Dublin were without Brogan and Connolly but other than that were fairly strong. Couldnt tell you what Cavan team was

willabur

Jampip wrote: »

Here's one to get a bit of discussion going again, what team would you pick for this weekend. My team would be:

Galligan
McLoughlin
Dunne
Hayes
F. Flanagan
McEnroe
R. Flanagan
Mossy Corr
Killian Clarke
Michael Argue
Martin Reilly
Dara Mc
Niall McDermott
Gearoid McKiernan
Martin Dunne

Cian Mackey, Jack Brady, Mark McKeever, Damien Reilly and Barry Reilly all to come on early in the second half.

People may find Mackey on the bench strange but I think we need to hold at least one of our big guns in reserve for when we're struggling in the second half of a match. Mackey isn't fit for 70 minutes so I'd prefer to have him for 30 minutes when the game is in the melting pot (shouldn't be the case this weekend but for future fixtures).

McKiernan at full forward will also be divisive as has already been discussed on here but I'd like to see it tried at least. There's no reason he, Clarke and Argue can't rotate a bit.

Fergal Flanagan isn't a corner back for me. Hayes deserves the position in my opinion and should start, Damien Reilly being the one to lose out. Again though, Reilly provides adequate cover for any of our half backs or a midfielder.

Re Dunne, we're on the easier side of the draw so the majority of teams it appears we'll be facing for the first 3/4 games are Division 4, 3 and lower level Division 2 sides so Dunne should be able to do a job. It's against the top class teams that he struggles. Jack Brady should get at least a half hour against London too IMO, perhaps for Niall McDermott because we know what McDermott offers.

Cannot see the team being a whole lot different than the one that started the last day. I can see him starting Dunne as a game against london will be alot looser than a game in Ulster. If Dunne has his shooting boots on I can see him racking up the scores

Slobberdawn

Jampip wrote: »

People may find Mackey on the bench strange but I think we need to hold at least one of our big guns in reserve for when we're struggling in the second half of a match. Mackey isn't fit for 70 minutes so I'd prefer to have him for 30 minutes when the game is in the melting pot (shouldn't be the case this weekend but for future fixtures).

The Mackey one is interesting.

Given how we play it could well be argued that we need our most creative player coming on when the game is there to be won.

Now I would hope that this weekend isn't the game for it. I'd actually prefer him to start and gain some fitness as he hasn't played for his club since the Monaghan game.

But I see your point for future, more challenging games.

Slobberdawn

Sorry, only just noticed that you said you wouldn't do it this weekend so we're sort of in total agreeement

Jampip

Slobberdawn wrote: »

The Mackey one is interesting.

Given how we play it could well be argued that we need our most creative player coming on when the game is there to be won.

Now I would hope that this weekend isn't the game for it. I'd actually prefer him to start and gain some fitness as he hasn't played for his club since the Monaghan game.

But I see your point for future, more challenging games.

Mackey's fitness is a problem for us. I had been told that he didn't look fit in the challenge against Butlersbridge and I don't think he looked fit against Monaghan either. He was dead on his feet second half and his man did damage. I think he was rushed back on a couple of occasions too soon last year. Remember the debacle of him coming on against Westmeath?

I think a good half hour when the game is there to be won is the best time for us to use him. We still have McVeety and Martin Reilly that should be able to create. We're also going to go with a big man inside so some balls are going to be pumped in over the top anyway.

I think its time Terry learned that it’s a 20 man game and starting your best 15 players from the get go isn't always the way to go.

I actually would bench him from the start this weekend. We shouldn't need him to beat London and the games will be coming hard and fast now so a half hour is enough for him IMO.

ichy

Mackey must start so as to build his fitness, if we need to hold a big gun on the bench to come on and turn the game against London then we should save the air fare and quit now

Jampip

ichy wrote: »

Mackey must start so as to build his fitness, if we need to hold a big gun on the bench to come on and turn the game against London then we should save the air fare and quit now

I didn't say he was needed against London to turn the game. In fact, I pointed out the opposite.

However, I think it's a role he needs to get used to and we shouldn't need our talisman against Division 4 opponents.

Mackey has been struggling with knocks for the last three years now. I think it's time people started realising that he may never get back to full match fitness and a cameo role for a half hour is the best we'll see of him.

KeepTheFaith

The team I'd go with

Galligan

McLoughlin Dunne Killian Brady

F. Flanagan McEnroe McVeety

Gearoid
Mossy

Martin Reilly Argue Mackey

Dunne McDermott R. Flanagan

I think there's more than enough there to beat London, Killian Clarke can come off the bench along with Damien Reilly, Hayes x2 and Niall Murray, Argue can rotate to full forward or midfield as needed. If Mackey is fit for 50 minutes he has to start no matter what the opposition, no team starts with their talisman on the bench. It's a no win situation for Cavan here, hammer them and you've only hammered London. Struggle and you're slated. Any sort of victory would do me.

Slobberdawn

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

The team I'd go with

Galligan

McLoughlin Dunne Killian Brady

F. Flanagan McEnroe McVeety

Gearoid
Mossy

Martin Reilly Argue Mackey

Dunne McDermott R. Flanagan

I think there's more than enough there to beat London, Killian Clarke can come off the bench along with Damien Reilly, Hayes x2 and Niall Murray, Argue can rotate to full forward or midfield as needed. If Mackey is fit for 50 minutes he has to start no matter what the opposition, no team starts with their talisman on the bench. It's a no win situation for Cavan here, hammer them and you've only hammered London. Struggle and you're slated. Any sort of victory would do me.

What's your thinking behind starting the Gunner over, say, Murray?

KeepTheFaith

I think it might be a game that will be more suited to Gunner. I'd expect a bit of a physical dogfight for a lot of the game and i'd expect the game to be played at a much lower pace to the Monaghan game, that's where you want Killian. If you have a faster more open game he's more likely to be exposed and more likely to end up on more ball and that's not what you want. His best game IMO, is stuck to a big forward breaking their heart.

Tom Joad

I'd go with

Galligan
McLoughlin
Dunne
R. Flanagan
F. Flanagan
McEnroe
McVetty
Mossy Corr
Gearoid
Mackey
Michael Argue
Martin Reilly
Niall McDermott
Killian Clarke
Martin Dunne

I think Mackey needs game time to get his fitness levels up. Interesting one about trying Gearoid at 14 - not sure he is suited to it but could be worth a try against London. Think he needs game time too as does Killian Clarke. I would start Martin Dunne as a good game would boost his confidence and he needs that at the minute.