The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Jampip

Slobberdawn wrote: »

You mean you disagree with me? Hard to say something is bull**** when it didn't get a chance to materialise isn't it?

I agree we were lucky to be close to them but close we were. They had a strong wind for over half the first half and missed their chance to open a lead. Why you would have feared for us with the wind behind us to come is beyond me. Everyone I was with was hoping to keep the score down as HT approached and we were all quietly confident.

I totally disagree. In the first half, even with 15 men, we did not look capable of winning that game.

It reminded me of the Meath Armagh game last year. Armagh went ahead, Meath pulled them back before half time but Armagh ran away with it in the second half.

I have no reason to believe, wind, fifteen men staying on the pitch or otherwise, that Cavan could have changed their play in the second half and started creating more. We're too slow and ponderous.

As poor a full forward as Argue is (and that isn't his fault), there's no point bringing the ball up the pitch at a rate of 0mph to then thump it into him when four or five backs have had time to return to their positions and cover him.

From the minute Roscommon thundered over those first two points I knew we were in trouble. We don't have any forward capable of scoring points like that, bar Barry Reilly it appears.

Slobberdawn

Jampip wrote: »

I totally disagree. In the first half, even with 15 men, we did not look capable of winning that game.

It reminded me of the Meath Armagh game last year. Armagh went ahead, Meath pulled them back before half time but Armagh ran away with it in the second half.

I have no reason to believe, wind, fifteen men staying on the pitch or otherwise, that Cavan could have changed their play in the second half and started creating more. We're too slow and ponderous.

As poor a full forward as Argue is (and that isn't his fault), there's no point bringing the ball up the pitch at a rate of 0mph to then thump it into him when four or five backs have had time to return to their positions and cover him.

From the minute Roscommon thundered over those first two points I knew we were in trouble. We don't have any forward capable of scoring points like that, bar Barry Reilly it appears.

There was plenty of decent ball put in to Argue in the first half and he made a balls of most of it. I also don't blame him and I think it was a mistake by Hyland to persevere with it.

When Tom Hayes came on he made a run, won the ball and teed up Murray for a score. He won another ball and laid it on a plate for a point by Martin Reilly also. We obviously saw the first half differently.

McVeety was intercepting ball and breaking at pace and Ronan Flanagan was a willing runner winning numerous balls played to him on the terrace side of the pitch. Gearoid was doing well at midfield and Corr was also making penetrating runs. I think we struggled defensively, ironically because we went man for man a lot.

Crash Bang Wall

For me the wind was deceptive...it made a difference in the hurling beforehand so going in 1 point down at ht wasnt a problem

I didnt see the incident at the time re Corr, but when I saw 18 on the ground I was pretty sure he got some sort of a blow. I looked at the umpires in the town goal and they were chatting....since I started going to matches a long time ago, if an umpire seen something he immediately moved a few yards away from the post and stuck out his hand to try and get the attention of the referee...the umpires didnt, they were just chatting

The game carried on for 30 seconds at least after the incident

I had the game recorded on tv at home, and when I checked the camera went straight to the referee and he was talking to someone, so he knew something went on.....why not stop the game (as what should be done), and talk to the officials and get it sorted out

It stopped Cavan organising the defence when they would have had 15 mins to do so if the officials had handled it correctly

I am not for one minute saying that Corr shouldnt have been sent off....its a red all day long, but what happened was farcical.

And as for the trying to take Corr off at ht.....dont anyone try and say that any other county wouldnt try to take him off and get away with it...every single team would

Jampip

Slobberdawn wrote: »

There was plenty of decent ball put in to Argue in the first half and he made a balls of most of it. I also don't blame him and I think it was a mistake by Hyland to persevere with it.

When Tom Hayes came on he made a run, won the ball and teed up Murray for a score. He won another ball and laid it on a plate for a point by Martin Reilly also. We obviously saw the first half differently.

McVeety was intercepting ball and breaking at pace and Ronan Flanagan was a willing runner winning numerous balls played to him on the terrace side of the pitch. Gearoid was doing well at midfield and Corr was also making penetrating runs. I think we struggled defensively, ironically because we went man for man a lot.

We do see the first half very differently. We had scored 1-2 after 7 minutes. It took us 13 minutes to score a point again. It was then another 9 minutes and we scored three points very quickly. Our scoring was lacklustre in the first half.

Roscommon, in the meantime, were never behind and were wasteful in the first half, kicking six wides. They also had far superior possession that they hadn't made count. Cavan could only last being second best for so long and that showed in the second half.

Slobberdawn

Jampip wrote: »

We do see the first half very differently. We had scored 1-2 after 7 minutes. It took us 13 minutes to score a point again. It was then another 9 minutes and we scored three points very quickly. Our scoring was lacklustre in the first half.

Roscommon, in the meantime, were never behind and were wasteful in the first half, kicking six wides. They also had far superior possession that they hadn't made count. Cavan could only last being second best for so long and that showed in the second half.

None of those stats really mean much. What relevance is there to them never being behind or what period we got our scores in?

I acknowledged that Roscommon missed a lot and that Argue messed up a lot of ball. My view was that we had come out of a half against a strong wind only a point down (or was it two). I thought we could kick on and win it. I'm not saying I was over-confident but I thought we had a decent chance.

We'll never know.

Jampip

Slobberdawn wrote: »

None of those stats really mean much. What relevance is there to them never being behind or what period we got our scores in?

I acknowledged that Roscommon missed a lot and that Argue messed up a lot of ball. My view was that we had come out of a half against a strong wind only a point down (or was it two). I thought we could kick on and win it. I'm not saying I was over-confident but I thought we had a decent chance.

We'll never know.

They were never behind because they were in control from when they tempered our initial burst at the start of the game. Re when we got our scores, it shows we had no rhythm whatsoever to our attack. We went long periods of the half without scoring. A 13 minute period and then a 9 minute period. I've watched the RTE coverage and they commented on it also.

The bottom line is we were struggling to stay in the game. Roscommon were the better team. You talk about Hayes beating his man once etc. - easy to pick out because it happened so rarely.

Slobberdawn

Jampip wrote: »

They were never behind because they were in control from when they tempered our initial burst at the start of the game. Re when we got our scores, it shows we had no rhythm whatsoever to our attack. We went long periods of the half without scoring. A 13 minute period and then a 9 minute period. I've watched the RTE coverage and they commented on it also.

Right, we had no rhythm in our attack. We scored heavily and then the next number of attacks came to nothing. So what? In Salthill we scored two points in the first half and came out comfortable winners.

I'm not surprised RTE mentioned it. I'd say Spillane was probably working off camera telling the lads how many forwards scored from play and how many were wearing black boots.

We'll agree to disagree on what we thought would/could have happened had Corr stayed on.

cavan4sam

Very disappointed with the result . But more with the performance we were never at the races although the score reflected different at half time. We cant underestimate the loss of dunne and clark ...mc enroe was clueless at full back and to me it seemed to set the rest of the backline off keel.
I dont know what to say about the forwards as the speed and quality of the ball was poor
I wouldn't write argue off yet he's young and raw so I'll give him a few games into the league before judging

I think terry has done a great job and if he decides to go i wish him well however i dont think a big name is the solution maybe we should be looking at the lads that are bringing our youth through.

Here's hoping we wont have to put away the colours for another while yet as this minor team looks like they can go far

tayto lover

I think Cavan need a change at the helm.
Sounds ideal for the likes of James Horan.

Jampip

Slobberdawn wrote: »

Right, we had no rhythm in our attack. We scored heavily and then the next number of attacks came to nothing. So what? In Salthill we scored two points in the first half and came out comfortable winners.

I'm not surprised RTE mentioned it. I'd say Spillane was probably working off camera telling the lads how many forwards scored from play and how many were wearing black boots.

We'll agree to disagree on what we thought would/could have happened had Corr stayed on.

It was Tomas O'Se and Dermot Earley on RTE. Not exactly lads known for searching for headlines.

The next number of attacks? Cavan didn't even look like scoring most of the time.

I'm really struggling to see what match you were watching. Even the poster above said we weren't at the races though the half time score didn't show it.

You are fooling yourself if you think we had a chance in that game. The only thing that kept us in it were Roscommon's first half errors. They didn't put their dominance on the score board until the second half.

Ah sure we'll always have that one memorable time in 50 minutes that Tom Hayes got past his man!

celt262

Jampip wrote: »

I totally disagree. In the first half, even with 15 men, we did not look capable of winning that game.



I have no reason to believe, wind, fifteen men staying on the pitch or otherwise, that Cavan could have changed their play in the second half and started creating more. We're too slow and ponderous.

I do wonder why you bother going to Cavan games.

One point down after playing against the wind in the first half and you think we have no chance in getting a result even with 15 men.

The sending off was the losing of that game and the stupidity of the management in not pulling players back to stop Roscommon walking through like they did the whole second half.

There were four points in it with 6 minutes to go and this was after having a point disallowed which would have left one score in it and giving them the freedom of the pitch to do what they wanted when they attacked.

15 against 15 and its a totally different game.

Slobberdawn

Jampip wrote: »

It was Tomas O'Se and Dermot Earley on RTE. Not exactly lads known for searching for headlines.

The next number of attacks? Cavan didn't even look like scoring most of the time.

I'm really struggling to see what match you were watching. Even the poster above said we weren't at the races though the half time score didn't show it.

You are fooling yourself if you think we had a chance in that game. The only thing that kept us in it were Roscommon's first half errors. They didn't put their dominance on the score board until the second half.

Ah sure we'll always have that one memorable time in 50 minutes that Tom Hayes got past his man!

Like I said, you think one thing, I think another. It's not an exact science and in this case it was a prediction of how things would go in a half of football in the future.



As for your points, O'Sé doesn't look for attention? Have you been hibernating the last few weeks? If one poster agreed with you above, then three lads around me agreed with me. Neither case proves anything. Celt 262 also thought we had a chance so let's not get into more stats about how many people thought what.

And it's great idea to start slagging a young lad like Hayes. I never mentioned him getting past his man. I said he won two balls and set up two points. He needs to learn for sure but try to raise your tone when analysing a young and very willing player trying to make his mark.

In addition, I've heard second hand that Hyland has told the players he's moving on so that would seem to be that.

Blue in hope

If Hyland goes and I think he will alot of the posters on here will get a shock as who will and wont comeback. It is very easy to blame Terry and his backroom team on why they are not playing for Cavan. A couple of the players mentioned have done a lot worse than Johnston did and people are calling for their return. I heard from a source within the camp that players did have a secret ballot previously on bringing Johnston back but voted against it.

Jampip

Slobberdawn wrote: »

Like I said, you think one thing, I think another. It's not an exact science and in this case it was a prediction of how things would go in a half of football in the future.

As for your points, O'Sé doesn't look for attention? Have you been hibernating the last few weeks? If one poster agreed with you above, then three lads around me agreed with me. Neither case proves anything. Celt 262 also thought we had a chance so let's not get into more stats about how many people thought what.

And it's great idea to start slagging a young lad like Hayes. I never mentioned him getting past his man. I said he won two balls and set up two points. He needs to learn for sure but try to raise your tone when analysing a young and very willing player trying to make his mark.

In addition, I've heard second hand that Hyland has told the players he's moving on so that would seem to be that.

Hyland leaving has been the worst kept secret in the county for months.

O'Se wore a dickie bow. He generally talks sense. He's not like Spillane and the crew that throw out pre planned lines hoping the media will pick up on them.

The three lads around you aren't posting here though so their opinion is irrelevant on this forum. Talking of stats, they show Roscommon had dominance in the first half but didn't put it on the scoreboard.

Where did I slag Hayes? I belittled the fact that you can almost rhyme off every time one of our players got the better of their markers. Hayes can't be blamed for the slow, ponderous movement down the pitch. By the time he or Argue did make a run, Roscommon had four or five backs funnelled back to cover them.

celt262 wrote: »

I do wonder why you bother going to Cavan games.

One point down after playing against the wind in the first half and you think we have no chance in getting a result even with 15 men.

The sending off was the losing of that game and the stupidity of the management in not pulling players back to stop Roscommon walking through like they did the whole second half.

There were four points in it with 6 minutes to go and this was after having a point disallowed which would have left one score in it and giving them the freedom of the pitch to do what they wanted when they attacked.

15 against 15 and its a totally different game.

I go to Cavan games because I'm an eternal optimist who lives in hope of another year like 1997, 2005 or 2013. Maybe they only come along every 8 years so we're looking at 2021 now!

We'll agree to disagree but 15 men or 14 we were second best in that game. As I've said, we went extremely long periods of the first half without scoring and were lucky the Rossies kicked so many wides.

I'm surprised by your change in stance. This time last year you were hugely negative about the performance and management.

Slobberdawn

Jampip, I respect your opinions and you generally seem to not be a bad lad. I also have no interest in two lads behind a keyboard slagging each other so I'll make this my last post on the matter.

O Sé was courting headlines with his attack on Cork. It's not a huge issue, just explaining what I meant.

Stats in general are bull**** unless analysed. You've used a lot of stats.

I don't know what to say about your comment on lads not on the forum not being relevant to the forum. We're talking about what we thought of the game. You use people's opinions on this forum that agree with you to back your point but I can't use others' opinions to back up mine because they don't post here? Actually just leave that as a point rather than a question.

Your post said "Ah sure we'll always have that one memorable time in 50 minutes that Tom Hayes got past his man". That seemed to me like you're running him down. If you say you weren't then fair enough.

Stoner

Slobberdawn wrote:

O Sé was courting headlines with his attack on Cork. It's not a huge issue, just explaining what I meant.

I don't think he was. It was all a ploy. All Kerry wanted was a good game before the knockout stages. By motivating Cork they got that. If they lost it would have been a kick up the arse but they'd still have a dog in the fight.

All Kerry wanted was to avoid a handy 70th Munster championship and going in cold to the knockouts imho. TOS played his part.

Slobberdawn

Stoner wrote: »

I don't think he was. It was all a ploy. All Kerry wanted was a good game before the knockout stages. By motivating Cork they got that. If they lost it would have been a kick up the arse but they'd still have a dog in the fight.

All Kerry wanted was to avoid a handy 70th Munster championship and going in cold to the knockouts imho. TOS played his part.

Are you serious?

They almost lost the game. Would they have preferred to lose the game than an easy win?

willabur

Have had a few days to reflect on this performance.
Now I watched the game in a pub in killarney just after cycling the ring of kerry so the body was fairly fatigued and the rapid injestion of guinness has probably stained the memory a little bit. I felt at halftime that we were well in it, a point down with the wind to come knowing that there is plenty of football in this team. I think the biggest factor in this game was the sending off, I don't think that can be denied. While no one can say that we would have won had he stayed on the field, we certainly would have been better equiped to deal with the roscommon onslaught.

as per individuals. I thought the distribution was poor - mackey and martin reilly kicking crucial possession away. I think mackey could do with keeping the game simple and step down from his steven gerrard role of hitting hollywood passes at every opportunity. Martin reilly not consistent with frees, Galligan should have been taking them. I think going forward Barry Reilly who really looked the part will be on free kicking duties.
Gearoid again did some great things but you would forget he was on the field at times. He is not taking games by the scruff off the neck the way dominant players do. he should be leading by example, putting the fear of god into the opposition and bring up his team mates as a result. Finally I'll say that argue is not a full forward nor will he ever be. have been watching him for a while now and he has a basic issue with reading the ball in the air. Doesn't matter how tall you are if you cannot read the ball and be able to time your run and your leap. I have seen him over run the ball so many times that it shows a lad that has not advanced his skill set. I think the best thing for him would be to be given a year at number 10 as an auxillary midfielder where he can use his undoubted gifts as a strong runner in possession, someone who can take a score also.

Stoner

Slobberdawn wrote:

They almost lost the game. Would they have preferred to lose the game than an easy win?

That's the extream end of my argument but yes. But they would still be in the championship just not provincial championship, they won an all Ireland from this position before correct? or certainly beaten cork later in the championship having been beaten by them earlier in Munster. I think that they wanted a kick in the arse and got it, might have worked out that they lost but they didn't. It's just a suspicion I have.

celt262

Stoner wrote: »

That's the extream end of my argument but yes. But they would still be in the championship just not provincial championship, they won an all Ireland from this position before correct? or certainly beaten cork later in the championship having been beaten by them earlier in Munster. I think that they wanted a kick in the arse and got it, might have worked out that they lost but they didn't. It's just a suspicion I have.

It is crazy.

Jampip

Slobberdawn wrote: »

Jampip, I respect your opinions and you generally seem to not be a bad lad. I also have no interest in two lads behind a keyboard slagging each other so I'll make this my last post on the matter.

O Sé was courting headlines with his attack on Cork. It's not a huge issue, just explaining what I meant.

Stats in general are bull**** unless analysed. You've used a lot of stats.

I don't know what to say about your comment on lads not on the forum not being relevant to the forum. We're talking about what we thought of the game. You use people's opinions on this forum that agree with you to back your point but I can't use others' opinions to back up mine because they don't post here? Actually just leave that as a point rather than a question.

Your post said "Ah sure we'll always have that one memorable time in 50 minutes that Tom Hayes got past his man". That seemed to me like you're running him down. If you say you weren't then fair enough.

I don't think O'Se has any axe to grind with Cavan that he needs to court controversey when it comes to us.

Of course I've used a lot of stats. They prove my point. The stats show that Roscommon dominated that first half. Cavan went 8 minutes without scoring and then 13. That's a huge amount of the first half where we failed to score or even threaten Roscommon.

Those lads aren't relevant to the forum because I have no way to validate their opinion. I use the opinion on articles than can be linked to. I don't say I was talking to so-and-so at the game and he said Cavan should have won. That is what you are attempting. The opinions I give are ones that you can validate be it through watching RTE Player or reading articles. I cannot validate the opinions of your friends or randomers that you spoke to at the game.

No, I was belittleing the fact that you picked out the few times we managed a break through in the game. The fact that you are able to pick them out proves my point.

cavan4sam

willabur wrote:

Have had a few days to reflect on this performance. Now I watched the game in a pub in killarney just after cycling the ring of kerry so the body was fairly fatigued and the rapid injestion of guinness has probably stained the memory a little bit.

And i thought i was the only one championing our cause in killarney....one thing for sure where i watched it the general consensus was that while it was entertaining it was a game that the rossies always had control of. Having been at the munster final Sunday I'm not sure the rossies or monaghan have any business thinking they are going to be at the business end of the championship for another few years

tayto lover

cavan4sam wrote: »

And i thought i was the only one championing our cause in killarney....one thing for sure where i watched it the general consensus was that while it was entertaining it was a game that the rossies always had control of. Having been at the munster final Sunday I'm not sure the rossies or monaghan have any business thinking they are going to be at the business end of the championship for another few years

Kerry v Cork was a totally different type of game to Ulster football though.
Monaghan v Donegal will be a dour close match with little flair.

Blue in hope

What will Hyland do? I felt after Saturday that he would go. I heard last night he had,then I see this into days Independent. I heard this morning he is doing his best to get another year.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavan-to-hold-discussions-with-hyland-over-his-future-31366120.html

The county board is broke.Email sent to clubs looking for more money from them. This wont help them attract a new management team!

celt262

Blue in hope wrote: »

What will Hyland do? I felt after Saturday that he would go. I heard last night he had,then I see this into days Independent. I heard this morning he is doing his best to get another year.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/cavan-to-hold-discussions-with-hyland-over-his-future-31366120.html

The county board is broke.Email sent to clubs looking for more money from them. This wont help them attract a new management team!

He should know its time to move on.

If county board don't move him on hopefully clubs will.

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

He should know its time to move on.

If county board don't move him on hopefully clubs will.

He was on Newstalk earlier around 1 o'clock. Strangely enough, with the man I think our county board should be chasing, Justin McNulty.

When asked about his position, he said he'd spend the next few weeks thinking it over and discussing with all relevant parties. He particularly focused on talking to the players as he said what will bring them forward is most important.

In regard to the Ros game, he admitted the team didn't play well in the first half and were very lucky to still be in the game at half time. That was my reading of it also as I've pointed out.

He said the plan in the second half was for Moynagh to operate as a second sweeper to stop Ros running straight through them but that went out the window when Corr was sent off. Moynagh then had to be redeployed to man mark a player.

soap1978

What about peter reilly for the job

Jampip

soap1978 wrote: »

What about peter reilly for the job

He needs more experience. I'd give him a few years as selector with someone he gets on with as manager.

cavan4sam

Jampip wrote: »

He needs more experience. I'd give him a few years as selector with someone he gets on with as manager.

not sure if i agree there , a few years as a selector and the politics involved could destroy him we wont exactly be shouting for forde for manager after his few years as a selector . i think if he were to take it now it would be a good move , i'd like to see larry on board too . (this all of course should terry decide to go)

KeepTheFaith

Peter would be fine. Jim Gavin and Eamon Fitzmaurice didn't have that much experience in management before being put in place, just some U21 experience like Peter.