The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

willabur

I this, I that, me, me, me

Its beginning to sound like a post tyrone win press conference around here.
I'd suggest if its reasoned debate you are after here I think you should take down the combative tone a notch or two.

tayto lover

willabur wrote: »

I this, I that, me, me, me

Its beginning to sound like a post tyrone win press conference around here.
I'd suggest if its reasoned debate you are after here I think you should take down the combative tone a notch or two.

In fairness he has yis rattled.

willabur

tayto lover wrote: »

In fairness he has yis rattled.

I've nothing wrong with anything he has said - just reckon he could put his point of view over without hopping and leaping around the place

Jampip

willabur wrote: »

I've nothing wrong with anything he has said - just reckon he could put his point of view over without hopping and leaping around the place

Would you prefer if I referred to myself as "the writer" rather than "I"?

I've had my views referred to as "embarassing" and "crazy" by others. Perhaps they should also tone it down.

I do take your point on board but fair questions are being asked IMO.

celt262

Anyone want to have a stab at who will win the Club Championships .

I think Kingscourt might win the Senior, Ballyhaise the Intermediate and haven't a clue with Junior I will go for Cornafean.

Tom Joad

celt262 wrote: »

Anyone want to have a stab at who will win the Club Championships .

I think Kingscourt might win the Senior, Ballyhaise the Intermediate and haven't a clue with Junior I will go for Cornafean.

I'd say you mightn't be too far wrong with the senior.
Obviously, the Gaels will start as favourites and have a good football man in charge now in Dom Corrigan but i don't think they are the team they were 10 years ago but still have really good players all over the field - a lot will depend on getting Seanie and Martin Dunne playing well - Is Seanie still out injured btw?

Kingscourt and Mullahoran won't be too far away. I think Ballinagh were very unlucky last year. I saw a lot of their games in the championship and I was impressed with them - well organised and good players in key positions.

Tom Joad

On a new manager, if Terry does move on.

I don't think names being thrown out like Horan etc are realistic. I don't have any stats or figures but my gut says that people like Horan, Harte, Gilroy, Fitzmaurice would easily transfer the undoubted success to a county outside their native county. Not saying that they are not very good managers or anything of the sort but just don't see them being as successful outside their native counties. Joe Kernan would be an example of what I am trying to get at. I don't see us being able to attract that kind of manager in any case.

Would not be in favour of going for an unproven manager from outside - have heard names like Peter Canavan mentioned this week which would be a backward step in my view. Similarly I would rule out McStay/McHale or McNulty.

The only reason for going outside in my view should be to get a proven top class manager who would command the respect of everyone and would make people sit up and take notice - a Pete McGrath - problem is that there are not too many managers of that quality about or readily available - not sure we could attract that kind of manager at the minute either.

So that leaves someone from within the county.
Have heard mention of a certain former manager in tandem with a former all star making shapes - hopefully this is one of those silly season rumours as I can't think a more backward move we can make.

Other names in the frame could be Danny Brady (too soon), Finbarr O'Reilly/Fr. Fay (unlikely to leave Pats).

That to my mind leaves Peter and Larry as the outstanding candidates. I'd give the job to them and bring in someone like Ciarán Whelan to work with the players - think he has a good head on him, would be respected by the players, has Cavan links (I think?) and would be able to easily travel up and down the M3 and combine it with his other media work.

KeepTheFaith

Tom Joad wrote: »

On a new manager, if Terry does move on.

I don't think names being thrown out like Horan etc are realistic. I don't have any stats or figures but my gut says that people like Horan, Harte, Gilroy, Fitzmaurice would easily transfer the undoubted success to a county outside their native county. Not saying that they are not very good managers or anything of the sort but just don't see them being as successful outside their native counties. Joe Kernan would be an example of what I am trying to get at. I don't see us being able to attract that kind of manager in any case.

Would not be in favour of going for an unproven manager from outside - have heard names like Peter Canavan mentioned this week which would be a backward step in my view. Similarly I would rule out McStay/McHale or McNulty.

The only reason for going outside in my view should be to get a proven top class manager who would command the respect of everyone and would make people sit up and take notice - a Pete McGrath - problem is that there are not too many managers of that quality about or readily available - not sure we could attract that kind of manager at the minute either.

So that leaves someone from within the county.
Have heard mention of a certain former manager in tandem with a former all star making shapes - hopefully this is one of those silly season rumours as I can't think a more backward move we can make.

Other names in the frame could be Danny Brady (too soon), Finbarr O'Reilly/Fr. Fay (unlikely to leave Pats).

That to my mind leaves Peter and Larry as the outstanding candidates. I'd give the job to them and bring in someone like Ciarán Whelan to work with the players - think he has a good head on him, would be respected by the players, has Cavan links (I think?) and would be able to easily travel up and down the M3 and combine it with his other media work.

Agree that a former manager plus All Star would be an absolute farce. The exact type of people we don't want in charge.

I'd have to disagree on Whelan. Talks an extraordinary amount of muck on the Sunday game.

baconsarnie

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

I'd have to disagree on Whelan. Talks an extraordinary amount of muck on the Sunday game.

100% agree. Strikes me as a classic example of a modern pundit- there for sound bites & controversy & wafer thin analysis.

Himself & Curran waffling absolute balderdash on the Sunday game after the Monaghan game being case in point. Mc Stay had to remind them that we'd lost only by a point.

tayto lover

Whoever takes over ANY county team should at least have won an All Ireland medal and know what it takes to get there. That and good man management skills and a good team around him.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

On a new manager, if Terry does move on.

I don't think names being thrown out like Horan etc are realistic. I don't have any stats or figures but my gut says that people like Horan, Harte, Gilroy, Fitzmaurice would easily transfer the undoubted success to a county outside their native county. Not saying that they are not very good managers or anything of the sort but just don't see them being as successful outside their native counties. Joe Kernan would be an example of what I am trying to get at. I don't see us being able to attract that kind of manager in any case.

Would not be in favour of going for an unproven manager from outside - have heard names like Peter Canavan mentioned this week which would be a backward step in my view. Similarly I would rule out McStay/McHale or McNulty.

The only reason for going outside in my view should be to get a proven top class manager who would command the respect of everyone and would make people sit up and take notice - a Pete McGrath - problem is that there are not too many managers of that quality about or readily available - not sure we could attract that kind of manager at the minute either.

So that leaves someone from within the county.
Have heard mention of a certain former manager in tandem with a former all star making shapes - hopefully this is one of those silly season rumours as I can't think a more backward move we can make.

Other names in the frame could be Danny Brady (too soon), Finbarr O'Reilly/Fr. Fay (unlikely to leave Pats).

That to my mind leaves Peter and Larry as the outstanding candidates. I'd give the job to them and bring in someone like Ciarán Whelan to work with the players - think he has a good head on him, would be respected by the players, has Cavan links (I think?) and would be able to easily travel up and down the M3 and combine it with his other media work.

What have Larry or Peter Reilly achieved as managers that you label them "outstanding candidates"?

Mother of god, if they are the "outstanding candidates" available within the county, I'd just keep Terry.

I would disagree that we wouldn't be able to attract managers like Pete McGrath. We've a decent set of players now and more coming through. Any potential manager is surely taking notice of that.

mylestheslasher

Peter Reilly won 3 x u21 ulster titles. Maybe you think that's nothing but I happen to think it's a superb achievement. Peter Canavan total backwards step. Horan not a hope. As for the all star and former manager, that would be a crazy move but do t forget the last time that manager was in place he put his hand in his own pocket to pay for his management team. If that type of offer is on the table again to a skint county board you wouldn't know what would happen. Peter Reilly is the man for this job imo

Jampip

mylestheslasher wrote: »

Peter Reilly won 3 x u21 ulster titles. Maybe you think that's nothing but I happen to think it's a superb achievement. Peter Canavan total backwards step. Horan not a hope. As for the all star and former manager, that would be a crazy move but do t forget the last time that manager was in place he put his hand in his own pocket to pay for his management team. If that type of offer is on the table again to a skint county board you wouldn't know what would happen. Peter Reilly is the man for this job imo

Is it not 2 x Ulster U21 titles? Hyland was manager in 2011 and 2012 iirc.

I don't think it's a superb achievement. We had a good bunch of players and a lot of those Peter inherited already had a wealth of experience - McLoughlin, Clarke, Dara Mc, Flanagan, Argue, Jack Brady, Joe Dillon, Moynagh to name a few.

They had also won Ulster at minor level. If anything, it could be argued he underachieved by not reaching an All Ireland final in either of the two years.

Peter Reilly also represents the putrid slow, ponderous football we have been paying. That needs to change and is the main reason I wouldn't want him.

KeepTheFaith

Pete McGrath would certainly be a man we could have gotten. If Fermanagh can get someone then so can Cavan.

Peter Reilly's achievement with the U21s shouldn't be underestimated. Ulster is an extremely competitive competition every year. To win two in a row at U21 Level in Ulster, with one of the smallest counties in the province, is an outstanding achievement by any standards. It was also done without a forward who has gone on to nail down a senior spot. For me, that's certainly enough to warrant serious consideration for the Senior Job.

KeepTheFaith

Jampip wrote: »

Is it not 2 x Ulster U21 titles? Hyland was manager in 2011 and 2012 iirc.

I don't think it's a superb achievement. We had a good bunch of players and a lot of those Peter inherited already had a wealth of experience - McLoughlin, Clarke, Dara Mc, Flanagan, Argue, Jack Brady, Joe Dillon, Moynagh to name a few.

They had also won Ulster at minor level. If anything, it could be argued he underachieved by not reaching an All Ireland final in either of the two years.

Peter Reilly also represents the putrid slow, ponderous football we have been paying. That needs to change and is the main reason I wouldn't want him.

Certainly anyone who watched the two Semi Finals would not say he underachieved. Cork and Dublin were two much better sides than us, the Dublin side in particular was top top class with individual talent and experience far superior to Cavan's. Coming so close in both games was a testament to how Peter got the absolute best of out both squads.

To call the football he played putrid ponderous and slow does a massive disservice to the tactics deployed to win Ulster. Faced with packed defence after packed defence in Ulster the football we played was exactly the type we needed to play to win. If you want to see good open football played you'll have more games like the Ulster U21 Final in 2010 and less trophies. To beat the packed defence you simply have to mirror it, ask Eamon Fitzmaurice.

It also sounds like you're saying our football this year was putrid ponderous and slow at Senior Level? Unless I'm taking you up wrong, but if I'm not then I'd have to ask what Cavan you were watching.

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Certainly anyone who watched the two Semi Finals would not say he underachieved. Cork and Dublin were two much better sides than us, the Dublin side in particular was top top class with individual talent and experience far superior to Cavan's. Coming so close in both games was a testament to how Peter got the absolute best of out both squads.

To call the football he played putrid ponderous and slow does a massive disservice to the tactics deployed to win Ulster. Faced with packed defence after packed defence in Ulster the football we played was exactly the type we needed to play to win. If you want to see good open football played you'll have more games like the Ulster U21 Final in 2010 and less trophies. To beat the packed defence you simply have to mirror it, ask Eamon Fitzmaurice.

It also sounds like you're saying our football this year was putrid ponderous and slow at Senior Level? Unless I'm taking you up wrong, but if I'm not then I'd have to ask what Cavan you were watching.

Jaysus, you're back again. Are you sure we haven't breached the length of post guidelines yet? When will I go over the word count that you don't respond to?

You really should write for the Celt with Fitzpatrick. You use such wonderful language and make every loss seem like such a gallant battle! Such glorious failures are all we've come to expect in Cavan then?

Did we ever lead against Cork? I thought they were always in the driving seat and we made a late burst at the end after Conroy got the goal. I don't think we ever really looked like winning that game. Cork were also hammered in the final, were they not? I certainly remember people on here watching the game that day and saying it was clear the winner would be from the other semi final which was correct.

The Dublin game was there to be won and I would have to question the referee tbh. That said, I don't think Dublin were a fantastic side. They had three great individual talents but were missing their best player in Kilkenny.

I didn't say I wanted open, attacking football. To play the blanket effectively though, as we are learning at senior level, you need to break at speed and get the ball up the pitch quickly. Cavan are not doing that. Armagh in fact murdered us by doing that last season.

What Cavan was I watching? The one that plays with two sweepers. The one that starts Ronan Flanagan as a corner forward. The one that has players like Martin Reilly that appear afraid to have a shot at goal despite having great takent. The one that passes the ball sideways, backways and arseways rather than kicking it forward. The one that is as slow as a granny whom needs two new hips at working the ball up the pitch.

As I've said, it's the one big mark against Hyland. He hasn't worked on our biggest failing - we don't counter attack quickly enough. It was evident in his first full game in charge and it's still evident now.

Even Westmeath in the early period of the Leinster final, looked more adapt at playing the blanket than us. I fully admit though we haven't forwards like Heslin and Martin.

Tom Joad

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Agree that a former manager plus All Star would be an absolute farce. The exact type of people we don't want in charge.

I'd have to disagree on Whelan. Talks an extraordinary amount of muck on the Sunday game.

I think you are being a wee bit harsh on Whelan - he's not the worst of them but his performance as a pundit is not necessary relevant to how he would do as part of a management team.

Blue in hope

Tom Joad wrote: »

Absolute total horse manure of the very highest order that the expenses of the current management are huge. Whoever told you that is talking through their hoop.

At the county board meeting last Monday night the treasurer said that the county Senior team management expenses are expected to come in around €85,000. Reading between the lines that means more than that. Considering we were gone after six months and 4 days I would call that big money.

KeepTheFaith

Jampip wrote: »

Jaysus, you're back again. Are you sure we haven't breached the length of post guidelines yet? When will I go over the word count that you don't respond to?

You really should write for the Celt with Fitzpatrick. You use such wonderful language and make every loss seem like such a gallant battle! Such glorious failures are all we've come to expect in Cavan then?

Did we ever lead against Cork? I thought they were always in the driving seat and we made a late burst at the end after Conroy got the goal. I don't think we ever really looked like winning that game. Cork were also hammered in the final, were they not? I certainly remember people on here watching the game that day and saying it was clear the winner would be from the other semi final which was correct.

The Dublin game was there to be won and I would have to question the referee tbh. That said, I don't think Dublin were a fantastic side. They had three great individual talents but were missing their best player in Kilkenny.

I didn't say I wanted open, attacking football. To play the blanket effectively though, as we are learning at senior level, you need to break at speed and get the ball up the pitch quickly. Cavan are not doing that. Armagh in fact murdered us by doing that last season.

What Cavan was I watching? The one that plays with two sweepers. The one that starts Ronan Flanagan as a corner forward. The one that has players like Martin Reilly that appear afraid to have a shot at goal despite having great takent. The one that passes the ball sideways, backways and arseways rather than kicking it forward. The one that is as slow as a granny whom needs two new hips at working the ball up the pitch.

As I've said, it's the one big mark against Hyland. He hasn't worked on our biggest failing - we don't counter attack quickly enough. It was evident in his first full game in charge and it's still evident now.

Even Westmeath in the early period of the Leinster final, looked more adapt at playing the blanket than us. I fully admit though we haven't forwards like Heslin and Martin.

The Cork and Dublin games were gallant battles. We faced two very very good sides. Why don't you think Dublin were fantastic? They won the All Ireland by a cricket score against a very talented Roscommon side. Costello McCaffery O'Conghaile Mannion Lowndes McHugh have all went all to play Senior for Dublin who are widely considered the best side in the country. I don't see how it can be doubted that they were an outstanding side? How can you make a case that we underperformed by losing to them?

Tom Joad

Blue in hope wrote: »

At the county board meeting last Monday night the treasurer said that the county Senior team management expenses are expected to come in around €85,000. Reading between the lines that means more than that. Considering we were gone after six months and 4 days I would call that big money.

What does that mean?

There is no such category in the Annual Accounts which are given to clubs every year and are also published so how can you take a figure like that completely out of context, without any sort of explanation or breakdown and them imply that the senior management team are creaming it in. Cavan are one of the most transparent counties on this matter.

Nothing could be further from the truth and I'll post up a copy of the accounts when I get a chance to show this.

As for €85k - what does this include - hotels in London, travel to matches - do you have any breakdown at all or is it all inneundo?

Blue in hope

Tom Joad wrote: »

What does that mean?

There is no such category in the Annual Accounts which are given to clubs every year and are also published so how can you take a figure like that completely out of context, without any sort of explanation or breakdown and them imply that the senior management team are creaming it in. Cavan are one of the most transparent counties on this matter.

Nothing could be further from the truth and I'll post up a copy of the accounts when I get a chance to show this.

As for €85k - what does this include - hotels in London, travel to matches - do you have any breakdown at all or is it all inneundo?

This figure was given by the county board to the meeting on Monday night in the Kilmore hotel. It was for senior team management only expenses. If you disagree with the figure you should talk to Martin Cahill who has repeated it in the Celt Today.

celt262

Blue in hope wrote: »

This figure was given by the county board to the meeting on Monday night in the Kilmore hotel. It was for senior team management only expenses. If you disagree with the figure you should talk to Martin Cahill who has repeated it in the Celt Today.

I would imagine our performance coach would be working up big enough expenses.

Tom Joad

http://cavangaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Cavan-GAA-Annual-Report.pdf

There is the annual report with Financial Statements for 2014 (also includes details of figures from 2013). You can see from that the expenditure and income of Cavan GAA is.

I didn't say I disagreed with the figure - it is completely out of context and without knowing the make up of it or putting it in context it is meaningless so how can it be used as a stick to beat senior management with.

celt262

Anyone at that meeting the other night hear that the County Board spent 40k on a Statistic's software?

cavan4sam

For what its worth Jampip i think peter reilly should get the job . If you can call him an underachiever i have no idea how you can suggest mc nulty ?? I don't think Mc Stay and mc hale combination will happen i think they will get the rossie job and maybe thats a good thing

Tom Joad

Blue in hope wrote: »

This figure was given by the county board to the meeting on Monday night in the Kilmore hotel. It was for senior team management only expenses. If you disagree with the figure you should talk to Martin Cahill who has repeated it in the Celt Today.

Ended up buying the Celt this morning and the direct quote is....

"He [Cahill] confirmed that the county senior team management and coaching expenses, including those of the strength and condition coach, are expected to come in at around €85,000. This figure is regarded as low in comparison to other counties".

I rest my case

Tom Joad

celt262 wrote: »

Anyone at that meeting the other night hear that the County Board spent 40k on a Statistic's software?

No mention of that in the article in the Celt. Main issue, from a quick read of the article this morning, is that servicing the loan for the work on Breffni is coasting a lot of money and other creditors (many of them local) are being put on the long finger. Increase in costs seems to be mainly related to the resources being put into the underage set-up. Clubs are not happy to say the least and this will rumble on for a while. In the meantime a task force of GAA people with experience in business and banking is being put together to look at the issue.

irish_man

Where do you get tickets from the county board? Is it at Breffni? Want to pick up some student tickets. (for the minor final)

celt262

Tom Joad wrote: »

No mention of that in the article in the Celt. Main issue, from a quick read of the article this morning, is that servicing the loan for the work on Breffni is coasting a lot of money and other creditors (many of them local) are being put on the long finger. Increase in costs seems to be mainly related to the resources being put into the underage set-up. Clubs are not happy to say the least and this will rumble on for a while. In the meantime a task force of GAA people with experience in business and banking is being put together to look at the issue.

Yeah I seen the celt last night..

You would think the county board would arrange a decent fundraiser that people in the county could actually get in involved in instead of having a day out for the lads at the races on a Thursday.

I think the clubs have had enough of he county board expecting them to foot the bill all the time.

Tom Joad

irish_man wrote: »

Where do you get tickets from the county board? Is it at Breffni? Want to pick up some student tickets. (for the minor final)

The ticket office at the back of Breffni Park.