The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Cavan_King

baconsarnie wrote: »

I think for once we are entitled to show some faith in the management team!


2016 led Mullinaleachta to their first Longford title in 66 years.
2017 won it a 2nd time.
2018 won it a 3rd time. Won their first ever Leinster title.
2019 took Cavan to our first Ulster final in 17 years.
2020 won us our first Ulster in 23 years.



It suggests that Mickey Graham might have some clue about this management malarkey. Yes, it is frustrating we didn't get a chance to be promoted (I think we would beat Offaly, but unless Fermanagh are at home I don't think they will).



The Northern teams were sharper but even though we were asleep for the first 10 minutes in the first half and the opening 15 of the second half, when we upped the intensity we went close. Definite signs of getting sharper.



We will be there or there abouts come July.

It'd be a very boring forum if we all didn't have an opinion and see ourselves as bar stool pundits.


Interesting take on it on The GAA Hour podcast with Colm Parkinson, Alan Brogan & Colm Kavanagh where this was discussed. Parkinson made the main comment I'd agree with - Cavan have to believe that even their subs should be capable of dealing with the likes of Fermanagh and Longford.


For example, Donegal managed to beat Armagh missing a host of players like McGee, Murphy, McGrath and Brennan.


I don't see why it has to be one or the other for Mickey re League & Championship - the top teams take the League serious. Alan Brogan actually commented that under Gilroy they started taking the League seriously and that continued under Gavin.


We're now looking at a League next year where we'll be playing the likes of Tipp, Louth, Laois etc. Wouldn't you prefer to at least be getting some Division 2 counties to Breffni?

celt262

Cavan_King wrote: »

McGhee was also mentioned as being gone. They didn't make any comment re the other Cuchulainns man Doughty.

Doughty is injured unlikely to feature this year.

rrs

Another year of Division 3 might not be as appealing to some players. But with a full round of fixtures they would have a chance
louth and Antrim likely to go from division 4, going well under the Tyrone managers

Ciaran Brady with a cruciate injury likely to miss next year league

baconsarnie

Cavan_King wrote: »

It'd be a very boring forum if we all didn't have an opinion and see ourselves as bar stool pundits.


For example, Donegal managed to beat Armagh missing a host of players like McGee, Murphy, McGrath and Brennan.


I don't see why it has to be one or the other for Mickey re League & Championship - the top teams take the League serious. Alan Brogan actually commented that under Gilroy they started taking the League seriously and that continued under Gavin.


We're now looking at a League next year where we'll be playing the likes of Tipp, Louth, Laois etc. Wouldn't you prefer to at least be getting some Division 2 counties to Breffni?

1. I agree completely- by the way, i am not having a go at you or anyone else. Brilliant to have debate- bar stools being sadly missed for this sort of thing. I mostly agree with your points, i just think we can cut Graham some slack!



2. The lads on We are Cavan made a point that most of us would agree with. When everyone is fit, you could more or less name 1-12 and after that over the last year or so and the uncertainty is about the inside forward line where no one (McVeety aside) has as yet nailed down a place. We have a serious core unit with lots of experience and conditioning and lads on the fringes who need time to develop physically and gain experience.



That's where we are at (and we have come a long way culture wise since 2018). Surely the league is the place to develop the panel to develop lads, to gain experience so we can cope with the losses of key players. It's a bit chicken and egg otherwise.



3. I said that before- it doesn't have to be either or, but I have faith that Mickey has a better sense of where the panel is at and how he can deploy those resources best. Ideally we get that panel built up that we can do both, but I think we are a bit off that yet.



4. 100% agree. However when we have league games I am always interested in places that are handy to get to and if they are evening games, that have public transport to and from the big smoke for a daycent day out! And not having seen a game in the flesh since the deflating game Vs Clare (in sunshine, wind and hail) to be honest regardless of the opposition, I will be there !!!

rrs

In League terms it has been poor under Mickey Graham. And yes he won Ulster last year and final the year before.
But has 2 relegations and another year in Division 3.

To be a contender for Ulster on a regular basis it won't be from the lower Divisions. You might get a one off like Monaghan in 2013 or Cavan last year.. But it's mainly Division 1 teams who win Ulster or go far in Championship.

Cavan_King

rrs wrote: »

In League terms it has been poor under Mickey Graham. And yes he won Ulster last year and final the year before.
But has 2 relegations and another year in Division 3.

To be a contender for Ulster on a regular basis it won't be from the lower Divisions. You might get a one off like Monaghan in 2013 or Cavan last year.. But it's mainly Division 1 teams who win Ulster or go far in Championship.

17 games over 3 seasons now and he has won 5 League games.

1 win of 7 games in 2019 (vs Roscommon)
3 wins from 7 games in 2020 (vs Westmeath, Fermanagh & Laois)
1 win from 3 games in 2021 (vs Longford)

A 29% win rate so we aren't even winning one game in 3. I know the man lead us to Ulster but its a poor reflection if you ask me. It's no coincidence that the top teams are playing in Division 1 year after year and, any that have slipped down to Division 2 over the years (Tyrone 2016, Donegal 2019 and I suspect Mayo this year) have bounced right back up.

I'm not even going to entertain notions of losing to Wicklow but at this rate a loss to Tyrone will quickly end the celebrations of 2020.

baconsarnie

Cavan_King wrote: »

17 games over 3 seasons now and he has won 5 League games.

1 win of 7 games in 2019 (vs Roscommon)
3 wins from 7 games in 2020 (vs Westmeath, Fermanagh & Laois)
1 win from 3 games in 2021 (vs Longford)

A 29% win rate so we aren't even winning one game in 3. I know the man lead us to Ulster but its a poor reflection if you ask me. It's no coincidence that the top teams are playing in Division 1 year after year and, any that have slipped down to Division 2 over the years (Tyrone 2016, Donegal 2019 and I suspect Mayo this year) have bounced right back up.

I'm not even going to entertain notions of losing to Wicklow but at this rate a loss to Tyrone will quickly end the celebrations of 2020.

Let's do a quick comparison:


McGlennan: League performance 2017 / 2018


Played 14, won 6, drew 3 , lost 5 (42% win rate- ohhhh! he must be good)



McGlennan: Ulster performances 2017/ 2018


Played 2, lost 2


Graham: League performances 2019 / 2020


Played 14, won 4 (boo! bad manager, he clearly hasn't a clue and won't move us on at all)



Graham: Ulster performances 2019 / 2020


Played 8, won 6, drawn 1, lost 1.



By your reckoning, the league means so much, perhaps we should have stuck with the stellar league performer that was Mattie McGleenan?



Or perhaps the lad that got us in back to back Ulster finals for the first time since 1969, who also ended an 18 year wait for an Ulster final and followed it up with our first Ulster in 23 years might be on to something in getting us ticking for the Championship. Who knows, he might be a decent manager?



Give it a rest. This year's "league" isn't a league. It's three games. Wait for the Tyrone game and sharpen your knife in the meantime.

willabur

anyone thinking Mickey should not be the manager for the next 5 years at least should be brought in a field a shot.
Regardless of what happens vs Tyrone he is the man to bring the county forward. I would especially rule out any league driven analysis due to the times we are living in.

celt262

willabur wrote: »

anyone thinking Mickey should not be the manager for the next 5 years at least should be brought in a field a shot.
Regardless of what happens vs Tyrone he is the man to bring the county forward. I would especially rule out any league driven analysis due to the times we are living in.

You wouldn't be saying that on the off chance that Wicklow beat us.

He is getting away with the league form due to the championship runs and the fact that he is local and a likable guy. I wouldn't want anyone else in charge of the team at the moment but league form needs to improve in the next two years these relegation's and staying in Division 3 is doing nothing for the development of the team.

baconsarnie

celt262 wrote: »

You wouldn't be saying that on the off chance that Wicklow beat us.

He is getting away with the league form due to the championship runs and the fact that he is local and a likable guy. I wouldn't want anyone else in charge of the team at the moment but league form needs to improve in the next two years these relegation's and staying in Division 3 is doing nothing for the development of the team.

JC on a bike. Let's have a quick exploration of that "development of the team".



By and large from 2014 (when we got promoted from Division 3 when Terry began to turn us around), we were on a relatively upward trend in the league.


From 2014-2018 we drew one game in Ulster and lost 5 and won NONE.

Every single year, players walked from the panel with no sign of silverware on the horizon. Every single year we were rebuilding and starting again.



Put that into perspective. The "development of the team" under Mickey (successive relegations) hasn't stymied our development where it matters and we have only lost one game in Ulster under his watch.



And for once, rather than people walking away, we have a panel that is growing and we finally have a sense of a team going in the right direction.



Granted, losing to Wickla would be a disaster!

willabur

celt262 wrote: »

You wouldn't be saying that on the off chance that Wicklow beat us.

He is getting away with the league form due to the championship runs and the fact that he is local and a likable guy. I wouldn't want anyone else in charge of the team at the moment but league form needs to improve in the next two years these relegation's and staying in Division 3 is doing nothing for the development of the team.

Couldn't disagree with you more

I would happily wallow in division 4 if it meant ulster semi finals, finals every year. The championship is what matters, That said I am sure when things go back to normal the league position will look after itself

celt262

willabur wrote: »

Couldn't disagree with you more

I would happily wallow in division 4 if it meant ulster semi finals, finals every year. The championship is what matters, That said I am sure when things go back to normal the league position will look after itself

I've heard it all now.

Division 4 or 3 is no preparation for playing Ulster Championship games.

willabur

celt262 wrote: »

I've heard it all now.

Division 4 or 3 is no preparation for playing Ulster Championship games.

way to miss the point sherlock

baconsarnie

celt262 wrote: »

I've heard it all now.

Division 4 or 3 is no preparation for playing Ulster Championship games.

See my post above for how our "superior" league form REALLY helped our preparation for championship from 2014-2018.

celt262

willabur wrote: »

way to miss the point sherlock

I would happily wallow in division 4 if it meant ulster semi finals, finals every year. The championship is what matters,

Go on then enlighten me ?

celt262

baconsarnie wrote: »

See my post above for how our "superior" league form REALLY helped our preparation for championship from 2014-2018.

I think this is a more relevant point.

Every single year, players walked from the panel with no sign of silverware on the horizon. Every single year we were rebuilding and starting again

ebbsy

baconsarnie wrote: »

JC on a bike. Let's have a quick exploration of that "development of the team".



By and large from 2014 (when we got promoted from Division 3 when Terry began to turn us around), we were on a relatively upward trend in the league.


From 2014-2018 we drew one game in Ulster and lost 5 and won NONE.

Every single year, players walked from the panel with no sign of silverware on the horizon. Every single year we were rebuilding and starting again.



Put that into perspective. The "development of the team" under Mickey (successive relegations) hasn't stymied our development where it matters and we have only lost one game in Ulster under his watch.



And for once, rather than people walking away, we have a panel that is growing and we finally have a sense of a team going in the right direction.



Granted, losing to Wickla would be a disaster!

We will win the fights afterwards as well .

willabur

celt262 wrote: »

Go on then enlighten me ?

Simple question of what is a must have Vs a nice to have

Must have is a run in the championship, to be competitve in the competition that matters the most, it is the priority. 1 loss in two years in what is the most keenly contested province is the manager doing a damn fine job.

A good position in the league is a 'nice to have' but it is not on the critical path. It should be used to blood new lads onto the panel and to give more elder players a break from the game, keep them fresh for what matters.

Look it, we are going to go into the tyrone game as under dogs, haven't beaten them since the early 80s in championship. Lets not throw out the baby with the bath water if that happens. My advice to Mickey is keep doing what you are doing, he knows what matters. Bringing someone else will see the league as a handy way to win some good PR but leave the lads blowing in the summertime 'But sure lads, we got promoted...'

baconsarnie

willabur wrote: »

Simple question of what is a must have Vs a nice to have

Must have is a run in the championship, to be competitve in the competition that matters the most, it is the priority. 1 loss in two years in what is the most keenly contested province is the manager doing a damn fine job.

A good position in the league is a 'nice to have' but it is not on the critical path. It should be used to blood new lads onto the panel and to give more elder players a break from the game, keep them fresh for what matters.

Look it, we are going to go into the tyrone game as under dogs, haven't beaten them since the early 80s in championship. Lets not throw out the baby with the bath water if that happens. My advice to Mickey is keep doing what you are doing, he knows what matters. Bringing someone else will see the league as a handy way to win some good PR but leave the lads blowing in the summertime 'But sure lads, we got promoted...'

Amen. I agree 100% with that.



When we've been promoted, lads are happy enough. I've been there and seen the celebrations. But they know what it means and how that compares with the championship and how that matters to them. In fact, there is no comparison.



As for Mickey is a "lucky manager". Well, of course every winner is lucky in some regard, but you create your own luck by being prepared and having plans and training hard.



Look at what he has done at club and county over the last 5 years. Either he does know what he is doing, or he's the luckiest manager of all time.

celt262

willabur wrote: »

A good position in the league is a 'nice to have' but it is not on the critical path. It should be used to blood new lads onto the panel and to give more elder players a break from the game, keep them fresh for what matters.

'

Nah not if it is Division 3 the poorer standard is going to catch up with you and the pace of the game is slower..

Boom__Boom

celt262 wrote: »

Nah not if it is Division 3 the poorer standard is going to catch up with you and the pace of the game is slower..

Over the last decade there have been 40 provincial winners across the 4 provinces.

32 of those winners were playing Division 1 football when they won the provincial championships.

6 of the winners were playing Division 2 football and 2 of the winners were playing Division 3 football.

No Division 4 side has won a provincial championship in the last decade.

Of the 6 teams who were playing Division 2, 4 of them won promotion from Division 2 the same year they won the provincial championship.
Of the 2 teams who were playing Division 3, 1 of the won promotion from Division 3 the same year they won the provincial champinship.
So 5 out of 8 of the teams outside Division 1 who won provincial championships over the last decade won promotion the same year.

The 3 teams from Division 2 and Division 3 that won provincial championships over the last decade that didn't win promotion in the same year were Galway in 2016 who finished 3rd in Division 2 and Tipperary who finished 5th in Division 3 last year and Cavan who were relegated to Division 3 last year.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that the major outlier to the date in relation to league and winning a provincial championship came during the first COVID affected championship played during the winter months. Cavan and Tipperary very much bucked the trend last year but long-term Division 3 or even Division 4 are pretty close to dead ends for a team that wants to challenge for provincial titles.

90% of provincial championships over the last decade were won by teams in Division 1 or who were promoted to Division 1 that year. Anyone who writes off the league as being unimportant if a county wants to win a provincial championship is nuts.

tayto lover

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Over the last decade there have been 40 provincial winners across the 4 provinces.

32 of those winners were playing Division 1 football when they won the provincial championships.

6 of the winners were playing Division 2 football and 2 of the winners were playing Division 3 football.

No Division 4 side has won a provincial championship in the last decade.

Of the 6 teams who were playing Division 2, 4 of them won promotion from Division 2 the same year they won the provincial championship.
Of the 2 teams who were playing Division 3, 1 of the won promotion from Division 3 the same year they won the provincial champinship.
So 5 out of 8 of the teams outside Division 1 who won provincial championships over the last decade won promotion the same year.

The 3 teams from Division 2 and Division 3 that won provincial championships over the last decade that didn't win promotion in the same year were Galway in 2016 who finished 3rd in Division 2 and Tipperary who finished 5th in Division 3 last year and Cavan who were relegated to Division 3 last year.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that the major outlier to the date in relation to league and winning a provincial championship came during the first COVID affected championship played during the winter months. Cavan and Tipperary very much bucked the trend last year but long-term Division 3 or even Division 4 are pretty close to dead ends for a team that wants to challenge for provincial titles.

90% of provincial championships over the last decade were won by teams in Division 1 or who were promoted to Division 1 that year. Anyone who writes off the league as being unimportant if a county wants to win a provincial championship is nuts.

Great post with honest facts.

baconsarnie

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Over the last decade there have been 40 provincial winners across the 4 provinces.

32 of those winners were playing Division 1 football when they won the provincial championships.

6 of the winners were playing Division 2 football and 2 of the winners were playing Division 3 football.

No Division 4 side has won a provincial championship in the last decade.

Of the 6 teams who were playing Division 2, 4 of them won promotion from Division 2 the same year they won the provincial championship.
Of the 2 teams who were playing Division 3, 1 of the won promotion from Division 3 the same year they won the provincial champinship.
So 5 out of 8 of the teams outside Division 1 who won provincial championships over the last decade won promotion the same year.

The 3 teams from Division 2 and Division 3 that won provincial championships over the last decade that didn't win promotion in the same year were Galway in 2016 who finished 3rd in Division 2 and Tipperary who finished 5th in Division 3 last year and Cavan who were relegated to Division 3 last year.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that the major outlier to the date in relation to league and winning a provincial championship came during the first COVID affected championship played during the winter months. Cavan and Tipperary very much bucked the trend last year but long-term Division 3 or even Division 4 are pretty close to dead ends for a team that wants to challenge for provincial titles.

90% of provincial championships over the last decade were won by teams in Division 1 or who were promoted to Division 1 that year. Anyone who writes off the league as being unimportant if a county wants to win a provincial championship is nuts.

God I am never going to forgive myself for posting this on a Cavan GAA forum...... but what about Monaghan in 2013.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Interesting stat about the 40 winners over the last decade.The provincial winners over the decade:


The Dubs account for all 10 of those in Leinster
Kerry 8 out of 10 in Munster
Mayo won 6 of the ten, Galway 2 and the Rossies 2.

Ulster Donegal won 5, Tyrone 2, Monaghan 2 and Cavan 1.



Worth noting that the Rossie won their two in years they got relegated from division 1, and a fair few Monaghan lads i know feel that they could / should have added to their Ulster titles but ran themselves out by obsessing about Division 1 status.



If you take the outliers that are Dublin and Kerry, at this stage I don't think there is a massive gap between most teams at championship level. Mayo have fallen back and Tyrone, Donegal and Galway have not stepped up next nor near where Mayo were in the chasing pack.



After that I genuinely don't think the Rossies are above us and we clearly have demonstrated that in championship football we have (for now) the upper hand over Monaghan.



I am not advocating for relegation to Division 4 by the way- but simply that Graham clearly has a clue of what he is doing and harping on about two massively disrupted league campaigns to me is a complete farce.

celt262

baconsarnie wrote: »

I am not advocating for relegation to Division 4 by the way- but simply that Graham clearly has a clue of what he is doing and harping on about two massively disrupted league campaigns to me is a complete farce.

Don't think anyone is harping on about last two leagues but we won't be going anywhere hanging around division 3.

Cavan_King

baconsarnie wrote: »

Let's do a quick comparison:

McGlennan: League performance 2017 / 2018

Played 14, won 6, drew 3 , lost 5 (42% win rate- ohhhh! he must be good)

McGlennan: Ulster performances 2017/ 2018

Played 2, lost 2

Graham: League performances 2019 / 2020

Played 14, won 4 (boo! bad manager, he clearly hasn't a clue and won't move us on at all)

Graham: Ulster performances 2019 / 2020

Played 8, won 6, drawn 1, lost 1.

By your reckoning, the league means so much, perhaps we should have stuck with the stellar league performer that was Mattie McGleenan?

Or perhaps the lad that got us in back to back Ulster finals for the first time since 1969, who also ended an 18 year wait for an Ulster final and followed it up with our first Ulster in 23 years might be on to something in getting us ticking for the Championship. Who knows, he might be a decent manager?

Give it a rest. This year's "league" isn't a league. It's three games. Wait for the Tyrone game and sharpen your knife in the meantime.

Bit of an overreaction I’d feel to be honest, happy though that my post prompted some debate.

“Give it a rest” - I’m posting the facts of the three League campaigns under Mickey.

“Sharpen your knives” - I don’t think it’s unfair to criticise what I see as a negative point against a manager that I am in no way recommending for the chop. God forbid we go back to the days of McGleenan.

You may argue that Mickey has had two interrupted League campaigns - but then others might argue the team last year benefitted from an Ulster championship in the Winter with no fans. It’s horses for courses.

I’d also argue in 2019 that the damage was done before Covid even hit - the hammering in Armagh & the home loss to Clare. We’ve very poor recent records against Kildare & Roscommon, regardless of Covid.

As for this year, the standard in Division 3 is fairly atrocious. The amount of unforced errors in the games was astounding. Even with subs playing, we should be expecting to beat Fermanagh. Derry were up for it but are no great shakes either.

I spent 2019 going between Division 1 games with Cavan and Division 2 games watching Meath. The difference in speed, conditioning and quality was notable even between those divisions. I remember watching Cavan vs Kerry and a week later watching Armagh vs Meath in Division 2. It was like night and day.

Whilst you incorrectly comment we didn’t win one Ulster game between 2014 and 2018 (Armagh 2016), you also ignore the fact that Mickey won Ulster in 2020 with a team the vast majority of whom had experience of playing the top teams having been in the top Division in 2017 and 2019.

Would they have had mettle to beat Donegal & Monaghan without that experience? Without exposure to the quality of the best teams? I strongly doubt it.

As a supporter, and even for revenue purposes in terms of getting people in the gate, are you looking forward to playing the likes of Antrim, Sligo & Offaly next year? There’s also the profile of the team. I think our lads deserve media attention but you get very little of it stagnating in Division 3. If anything, we’re getting negative media attention at the minute.

As I’ve said, I don’t see why it appears to be League or Championship for the management team. The top teams are managing both and I think we have the ability there to be a top team.

Cavan_King

Yevon wrote: »

It's clear from some of the posts on here that people are a little deluded as to where Cavan are at. One person ranks us ahead of Roscommon, another thinks we should be able to beat Fermanagh in Brewster fielding our subs. There's also the running theme that we 'slipped up' against Clare last year as if we should be beating Clare without too much fuss.

A little bit of a reality check is required.

And perhaps you need to check your own expectations. We hear about “Fortress Brewster”. Last year Fermanagh were hammered at home by both Armagh & Laois. This year they could only draw with a woeful Longford team. I would believe that even our panel members should be fit to win in Brewster against that team.

Rory Gallagher took a limited side as far as he could by getting them supremely fit & playing a dreadful type of football. Football like that will only ever take you so far & Rory realised that when he got them to Division 2 and left.

I wouldn’t agree we are better than Roscommon, given results over the years, but I would certainly see us as above Meath or Armagh, two teams operating above us in the League and who could both be Division 1 teams next year.

Let’s not forget the rankings on this site, based over years of results; which have routinely put us in the top ten teams in the country over the past few years.

And, yes, we should be beating Clare at home with a minimum of fuss. We played very poorly that day and their game management was better. Even normally reliable players like Faulkner were poor.

Cavan_King

Anyone hear a result from U20 game in Virginia between Cavan & Meath today?

Cavan_King

Yevon wrote: »

If you want to live in a bubble surrounded by what you believe should happen that's fine. Those of us in the real world can look at what is actually happening. What's actually happening is Cavan are losing to Division 2 and Division 3 teams on a consistent basis. Clare are one win away from Division 1 and Cavan are one loss away from Division 4 but somehow we 'should' be beating them with a minimum of fuss. It's laughable, arrogant nonsense.

Cavan are a good side and are capable of mixing it with Division 1 sides on our day, but we are inconsistent and lacking in reliable firepower. We can only take the very weakest sides in the country for granted.

Ahem….

“”Let’s not forget the rankings on this site, based over years of results; which have routinely put us in the top ten teams in the country over the past few years””.

Pre Mickey, we were almost promoted from Division 2 in 2015, were promoted in 16, relegated in 17 and promoted again in 18 - so we were in the top ten teams in the country on merit and beating Division 2 teams on a consistent basis.

You may argue we didn’t win games in Ulster but the teams beating us were Monaghan, Donegal & Tyrone - all seasoned Division 1 teams. I will admit we underachieved in the qualifiers - Derry in 16 and Tipp in 17 being particularly painful memories.

Cavan_King

Yevon wrote: »

You seem intent on focusing on statistics, rankings on a discussion forum, how we performed in the league 6 years ago, excuses for who we lost to etc etc. Anything but the fact that we are in a relegation playoff and have been relegated twice in succession and are losing to Division 2 and Division 3 teams on a regular basis now.

I'm not running down the team at all. I don't think any reasonable supporter would disagree. We are a good side that can play anyone in the country and expect to compete. We can't however take Division 2 or 3 sides like Clare or Fermanagh for granted or expect that our subs can take care of teams like that. The results fully back up what i'm saying, you seem to be living in an alternate reality of some sort where we are not losing to Clare, Fermanagh etc.

I am intent in focusing on information which I think supports my view. I don't think you're getting the fact that I place being relegated twice squarely at the feet of the manager and his viewpoint re the League.

He's done a lot of good things but he has been quite open about not taking the league as seriously as I believe it should be taken. I may be quoting pre 2019 League results (what else am I to use!?) but what I'm pointing out is that we weren't losing routinely to Division 3 and 2 teams when we had management who gave the League respect.

Cavan_King

The Cavan GAA Twitter hasn’t even tweeted about the game tomorrow and it’s less than 12 hours to it - that’s the level of embarrassment about being in this situation.

Meath beat Wicklow 7-14 to 0-07 last Summer when they were supposedly on a high after gaining promotion. This season they haven’t won a game.

This is the game for Mickey to send out the young lads that haven’t even senior club championship experience. If they can’t win this game, cut them loose in all honesty.

Even Mattie McGleenan could beat Wicklow.