The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

baconsarnie

rrs wrote: »

Should Cavan receive a hammering in Championship ,then questions will be asked. The Championship win last year might or might not bide Mickey Graham some time, but he has had 3 relegations.
Cavan could be like the 97 team, basking on that win and go nowhere, slipping back into being mediocre.

Tyrone are all at sea against Kerry in the first half ,so they need to improve also for Championship

I don’t think anyone is beyond criticism. But back to back Ulster finals surely buys him some time. And I wouldn’t rule out us being close when we meet Tyrone.

But today’s loss was criminal. We just looked like we rocked up Wicklow were there to win.

We definitely will go in as underdogs- which suits us.

Cavan_King

baconsarnie wrote: »

No he’s not.

I’m raging we didn’t win that and as Yevon pointed out, we 100% didn’t take Wicklow seriously. That’s inexcusable. We should have treated it as a championship game.

But to call for Graham to go is lunacy.

And who needs to get the players in the right frame of mind for a game like today? The buck stops with the manager,

I’ve said it through the whole League. Having a manager going around making disparaging remarks about the League is not the right way to go.

Ger Brennan said on Thursday evening’s GAA Hour that the first thing Pat Gilroy did was tell the Dubs they had to take the League seriously and start to beat the teams they couldn’t beat in the Championship in it. Brogan raised that point a few weeks back too.

If Antrim get promoted, we’ll have gone from being Ulster champs to the lowest Ulster team in the League. Some mess.

baconsarnie

Cavan_King wrote: »

And who needs to get the players in the right frame of mind for a game like today? The buck stops with the manager,

I’ve said it through the whole League. Having a manager going around making disparaging remarks about the League is not the right way to go.

Ger Brennan said on Thursday evening’s GAA Hour that the first thing Pat Gilroy did was tell the Dubs they had to take the League seriously and start to beat the teams they couldn’t beat in the Championship in it. Brogan raised that point a few weeks back too.

If Antrim get promoted, we’ll have gone from being Ulster champs to the lowest Ulster team in the League. Some mess.

Getting relegated is a disaster and definitely management and panel have to have a look at themselves. But calling for Graham to go? Come on.

baconsarnie

By the way, Mickey Graham is a very decent person. He’s also a very good (championship) manager and has served Cavan superbly as a player and manager.

Lads calling him cowardly based on some nonsense internet rumour would want to take a serious look at themselves.

Cop on. It’s a massive kick in the privates for us to get relegated and the manner of it hurts. But grow up.

Cavan_King

baconsarnie wrote: »

Getting relegated is a disaster and definitely management and panel have to have a look at themselves. But calling for Graham to go? Come on.

He’s brought us to our lowest point in the history of the League. He’s lost to Fermanagh, Derry & now ****ing Wicklow. The highs of last December are now firmly in the past, this manager has taken a panel of Division 1 players to Division 4.

Wicklow hadn’t won a game this year and Meath absolutely walloped them last year. Today was a farce and we’re the laughing stock of the country.

Is that your expectation?

Not to mention the rest of the League campaign where he continues to try and play lads that haven’t even decent club experience.

You clearly have a personal relationship with the man which means you have a biased opinion so not sure if there’s much point debating this with you.

celt262

baconsarnie wrote: »

By the way, Mickey Graham is a very decent person. He’s also a very good (championship) manager and has served Cavan superbly as a player and manager.

Lads calling him cowardly based on some nonsense internet rumour would want to take a serious look at themselves.

Cop on. It’s a massive kick in the privates for us to get relegated and the manner of it hurts. But grow up.

Eh if he left after leading us to division 4 and a few weeks before a championship game it would be cowardly.

baconsarnie

Cavan_King wrote: »

He’s brought us to our lowest point in the history of the League. He’s lost to Fermanagh, Derry & now ****ing Wicklow. The highs of last December are now firmly in the past, this manager has taken a panel of Division 1 players to Division 4.

Wicklow hadn’t won a game this year and Meath absolutely walloped them last year. Today was a farce and we’re the laughing stock of the country.

Is that your expectation?

Not to mention the rest of the League campaign where he continues to try and play lads that haven’t even decent club experience.

You clearly have a personal relationship with the man which means you have a biased opinion so not sure if there’s much point debating this with you.

I don’t. My opinion is based on the performance in Ulster over the last two years

baconsarnie

celt262 wrote: »

Eh if he left after leading us to division 4 and a few weeks before a championship game it would be cowardly.

But he hasn’t.

Cavan_King

baconsarnie wrote: »

I don’t. My opinion is based on the performance in Ulster over the last two years

This paragraph says otherwise….

baconsarnie wrote: »

By the way, Mickey Graham is a very decent person. He’s also a very good (championship) manager and has served Cavan superbly as a player and manager.

baconsarnie

Cavan_King wrote: »

This paragraph says otherwise….

You want clarification? Okay- let me state this clearly. I don’t know him. But anyone I talk to in football always make a point of the fact that he’s a nice person. In fact, I’ve never heard otherwise.

So maybe it should be “by all accounts” he’s a decent person.

Happy enough now?

Cavan_King

baconsarnie wrote: »

Hardly, just not keen on been called a liar.

Especially by some gobsheen who spends more time moaning about Cavan and watching Meath.

So jog on

I’m a football supporter. As much as I’d prefer to watch Cavan, are you looking forward to attending Breffni for the potential full houses against heavy weights like London, Wexford, Sligo & Leitrim next year?

I was bemoaning being stuck in Division 3 alright because I thought relegation to Division 4 was impossible but Mickey fixed that for me.

Let’s hope they keep the Division 4 Shield and we might win some League silverware.

celt262

baconsarnie wrote: »

But he hasn’t.

Thanks for clearing that up

rrs

Those pre season tournaments like the McKenna Cup are being shelved in the new GAA calender next year.
They would probably learn more from an in-house game.
Plenty of Cavan players performed in the McKenna Cup and struggled thereafter

baconsarnie

Cavan_King wrote: »

I’m a football supporter. As much as I’d prefer to watch Cavan, are you looking forward to attending Breffni for the potential full houses against heavy weights like London, Wexford, Sligo & Leitrim next year?

I was bemoaning being stuck in Division 3 alright because I thought relegation to Division 4 was impossible but Mickey fixed that for me.

Let’s hope they keep the Division 4 Shield and we might win some League silverware.

As a Cavan fan, unlike yourself, I’ll go and support the lads. Regardless of who they are playing. In case you hadn’t noticed, we’ve not had much success in terms of silverware until last year.

celt262

Yevon wrote: »

Anyone bad mouthing Graham or calling him a coward needs to have a long hard look at themselves. I know lads from a few different clubs Graham has managed and nobody has anything but good things to say about him. He's given more to Cavan football than any of us mouthing on here.

We underestimated Wicklow today. Our big players were quiet. Faulkner had a nightmare, Kiernan had a poor game, Martin was quiet. Add to that the absence of Holla, Gerry, James Smith, McLoughlin, The Murrays..

Now isn't the time to panic or call for heads. If the players still believe in management then keep them there and put the required emphasis on the league next year to go up. Use McKenna Cup to blood the young lads.

Jeez would yas get over the coward comment or at least read it back.

cavan4sam

Yevon wrote: »

Anyone bad mouthing Graham or calling him a coward needs to have a long hard look at themselves. I know lads from a few different clubs Graham has managed and nobody has anything but good things to say about him. He's given more to Cavan football than any of us mouthing on here.

We underestimated Wicklow today. Our big players were quiet. Faulkner had a nightmare, Kiernan had a poor game, Martin was quiet. Add to that the absence of Holla, Gerry, James Smith, McLoughlin, The Murrays..

Now isn't the time to panic or call for heads. If the players still believe in management then keep them there and put the required emphasis on the league next year to go up. Use McKenna Cup to blood the young lads.

We didn't underestimate Wicklow today... Our management and players did....

Out team looked like they were out on their feet for long periods... That's my big concern goin into championship

I'm glad mickey isn't gone because I'd hate to think he'd walk away like that... But now he must prove himself and get us back up the divisions in the next couple of years

Us cavan folk have a habit of remembering terrible losses quicker than memorable victories and today is right up there with the waterford game

Cavan_King

baconsarnie wrote: »

As a Cavan fan, unlike yourself, I’ll go and support the lads. Regardless of who they are playing. In case you hadn’t noticed, we’ve not had much success in terms of silverware until last year.

By what yardstick are we measuring whose a better supporter then!? Shall we compare our programme collections!?

The management can’t dine out forever on what now looks like a fluke Ulster win. You may not agree, I may not agree, but that is what the masses are going to say.



The manager has had a view of the League that I have continually criticised over the years and the chickens have really come home to roost now with us hitting the once unimaginable level of starting the League next year in Division 4.

Other managers have won Ulster with Cavan but no manager has brought us this low.

And I’m not too bothered about what a nice fella he is, I don’t want to have tea with him. I want him to get our best players performing to their highest level in all competitions, the same I’d ask of any manager. He can be a complete for all I care if it gets the job done that he’s been asked to do.

baconsarnie

cavan4sam wrote: »

We didn't underestimate Wicklow today... Our management and players did....

Out team looked like they were out on their feet for long periods... That's my big concern goin into championship

I'm glad mickey isn't gone because I'd hate to think he'd walk away like that... But now he must prove himself and get us back up the divisions in the next couple of years

Us cavan folk have a habit of remembering terrible losses quicker than memorable victories and today is right up there with the waterford game

In terms of energy, it reminded me of our non-performance against the Rossies last year. I think that was down to heavy training pre Monaghan & we looked leggy today as well.

I really think we thought it was just a case of showing up & we got caught out in a must win game, which is unforgivable.

tanko

Today was a bad day but when Mickey Graham took over we hadn’t won Ulster in over twenty years and looked like we wouldn’t win it in the next twenty either.

To suggest that winning Ulster last year was a fluke or has already been forgotten is nonsense imo. It will remembered for decades.

cavan4sam

tanko wrote: »

Today was a bad day but when Mickey Graham took over we hadn’t won Ulster in over twenty years and looked like we wouldn’t win it in the next twenty either.

To suggest that winning Ulster last year was a fluke or has already been forgotten is nonsense imo. It will remembered for decades.

I like mickey but he wasn't long bringing us back to looking like we won't win it for another 20 years

celt262

cavan4sam wrote: »

I like mickey but he wasn't long bringing us back to looking like we won't win it for another 20 years

Is this the first time we will be in Division 4?

Cavan_King

celt262 wrote: »

Is this the first time we will be in Division 4?

So the We Are Cavan lads reckoned in their podcast. Even Val Andrews in 2012 managed to keep us out of Division 4.

Mickey’s win rate in league football is now 4 wins in 18 games over 3 years so he might have felt the drop will help his win percentage.

rrs

I wonder what sort of panel they will have for Division 4. Gearoid Mckiernan has his Ulster medal and over 10years at Senior with Cavan.
Maybe he'll play, but would hardy blame him if he didn't.
Martin Reilly and Ray Galligan at 34, committed players but might not be as eager either.

Cavan_King

rrs wrote: »

I wonder what sort of panel they will have for Division 4. Gearoid Mckiernan has his Ulster medal and over 10years at Senior with Cavan.
Maybe he'll play, but would hardy blame him if he didn't.
Martin Reilly and Ray Galligan at 34, committed players but might not be as eager either.

Faulkner, Holla, Gerry Smith, Madden, Oisin Kiernan and many others will all be 30 or the wrong side of it before they get a crack at Division 1 football again.

rrs

Yevon wrote: »

If you offered me an Ulster title and 3 relegations when Mickey took over I'd have snapped your hand off.

It's not fair comparing this relegation to Tommy Carr avoiding relegation. Different league format. No pre season games. No chance that another result might save you.

Coming off the back of winning Ulster, we probably should have expected a lull. Teams were out for our scalp and we had a few injuries to key men, the league format meant there was no room for error. It was a perfect storm. As I argued in the last few days, Cavan are not as good as many seemed to think. We are also not as bad as people are saying now. Division 4 is a depressing thought but it is what it is, get our **** together and get out of it next year.

I agree, but it's not like Cavan have been great in the League in previous years. The League game last year against Clare was awful.
A game against Roscommon to stay up last with a very flat display.

Anyway the young players will have to show up in Division 4 along with the older players, or could be stuck there a while.

Cavan_King

Yevon wrote: »

If you offered me an Ulster title and 3 relegations when Mickey took over I'd have snapped your hand off.

It's not fair comparing this relegation to Tommy Carr avoiding relegation. Different league format. No pre season games. No chance that another result might save you.

I don’t think anyone compared Mickey to Tommy Carr. I mentioned Val Andrews in 2012 when freak results elsewhere kept us in Division 3.

If it’s not fair comparing this relegation to any other manager avoiding relegation due to different circumstances, then you can’t compare Mickey Graham winning Ulster to any other manager not winning it by the same degree.

No other manager had a Winter championship with games week on week. No other manager also had a panel with as much underage silverware as Mickey’s, with players with Ulster minor & U21 medals in their back pockets and some of whom had been promoted three times previously. Players that had been exposed to Division 1 football twice. No other manager had a full time S&C coach. No other manager ever had games without the pressure of a crowd.

You can keep rolling out the excuses all you want but there’s no excuse for losing to that Wicklow team. That’s the bottom line.

It has been the manager’s choice to continually rubbish the League over the years with the media and before a team had even kicked a ball for him competitively. It was his choice to play lads with little or no club experience in intercounty games this season. It has been his choice to obviously over train the players and not have them ready for League matches.

Covid hasn’t caused any of that. The Manager has.

But sure at least the lads are getting these good results we keep hearing about in the Bronco test.

rrs

You look at the level Donegal were playing at yesterday in Breffni, and it's a world of a difference from last November. Cavan had a great display that day but they were caught off guard, thinking of Dublin.

Getting out of Division 3 should have been a priority this year after 2 relegations. You won't develop players in Division 4, . This could set back Cavan a good bit.
But maybe look at Derry for inspiration as they were in Division 4 in 2019

Hammar

Don't think any of us could have imagined at the start of 2021,that we would be heading to Division 4 for the first time in our history.
There's definitely something wrong in the set-up, I've heard the same rumours as everyone else, but it wouldn't be fair to the management or players to speculate, but the nature of the results and the consequences of relegation will , I feel,have people calling for the managers head should we ship a bad beating from Tyrone. That would be unfair on Graham in my opinion, he deserves a full season to put things right.

rrs

But would he have the urge to stay on if it was a heavy defeat by Tyrone. He's a championship manager as they say ,and they won't be winning Ulster from Division 4.

In Grahams first year they reached the Ulster final after playing Division 1 that year. They were relegated but playing the higher teams was a help before they played Monaghan. Obviously outclassed by Donegal in the final and Tyrone, but a few years in the top division would have brought them on

Last year winning Ulster I think was freakish. Played in only halfs leading up to the final and raised it big time for the final. Donegal clearly had their eye off the ball but it was a first Ulster in a long time

Cavan_King

Yevon wrote: »

Fair enough, the Ulster title was in unique circumstances but I dont think it's fair to pretend like those circumstances were ideal. It was incredibly difficult to get the lads properly prepared with Covid restrictions, play 7 weeks in a row etc.

Mickey and his management team have to take responsibly for the tactical failures yesterday, for the long standing issues in our forward line and for what looked like a team that were taking Wicklow for granted. I dont think anybody disputes that. I'm just pointing out that this is not the standard relegation across a 7 game league in a regulat year.

You keep banging the drum about players having no club experience. Who are you talking about? Every player has played Adult Club football?

You can’t just pick out the bad points re the Ulster Championship & covid all the time. There were also positives for Cavan - Winter football suited our style, no supporters may have suited us etc.

Why exactly do you think we would have performed better across seven games than 4? We won one game in 4. That’s relegation standard. We lost to a Wicklow team that couldn’t win a game on the other side of the split. I keep hearing this argument that we would not have been relegated across seven games but we had four and won one. Relegation standard.

Oisin Brady, Cian Reilly, Sean McEvoy, Caoimhin McGovern - all have less than ten games played at senior club level each. I don’t believe McEvoy has started a club championship game for Ramor. Mickey has drafted in players who aren’t even established at club level to give them playing time in the League. That’s what I mean.