The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Lemlin

Cavan team named:

CAVAN: Conor Gilsenan (Bailieborough); Joshua Hayes (Cootehill), Rory Dunne (Redhills), Feargal Flanagan (Butlersbridge); James McEnroe (Ramor United), Alan Clarke (Kingscourt), Damien O’Reilly (Belturbet); Gearoid McKiernan (Swanlinbar), Killian Brady (Mullahoran); Cian Mackey (Castlerahan), Niall McDermott (Ballinagh), Martin Reilly (Killygarry); Jack Brady (Ramor United), Martin Dunne (Cavan Gaels), Eugene Keating (St Sylvester’s).

No starting place for Givney. It appears we're also going without the U21s after their campaign.

Great to see Jack start in the corner. Hopefully he stays in there.

I wouldn't expect the starting 15 vs Armagh to be far from this.

Only one change from the starting 15 I suggested 3/4 weeks ago - Jack instead of Givney.

cavan4sam

augustus gloop wrote: »

David Givney to settle his move to Ballymun Kickhams over the next few weeks

not sure its a very good move for him ,i dont think he'll make the grade with kickhams but if he does it can only improve his game ,

Lemlin

cavan4sam wrote: »

not sure its a very good move for him ,i dont think he'll make the grade with kickhams but if he does it can only improve his game ,

Course he will. He made the grade to play for Ulster at midfield the past two years.

That cements his place as one of the best mids in Ulster yet you reckon he won't make a Dublin club team!?

Hammar

cavan4sam wrote: »

not sure its a very good move for him ,i dont think he'll make the grade with kickhams but if he does it can only improve his game ,

Givney would start and be a key man on every club team in Ireland.
I reckon there will be three changes from that team for the Armagh game, Argue into midfield for Gunner Brady,Killian Clarke for Damien O'Reily at wing back and Givney for Jack Brady at corner forward giving us an different option in the FF line.
Gunner will battle it out with Fergal Flanagan for that corner back position.
I'm suprised at no Jason McLoughlin,Maybe they are going to go with Fergal Flanagan on Jamie Clarke with additional help of course. Flanagan is a very good man marker.

augustus gloop

yes anyone who has followed hylands form knows there will be a few changes to that team

Lemlin

Hammar wrote: »

Givney would start and be a key man on every club team in Ireland.
I reckon there will be three changes from that team for the Armagh game, Argue into midfield for Gunner Brady,Killian Clarke for Damien O'Reily at wing back and Givney for Jack Brady at corner forward giving us an different option in the FF line.
Gunner will battle it out with Fergal Flanagan for that corner back position.
I'm suprised at no Jason McLoughlin,Maybe they are going to go with Fergal Flanagan on Jamie Clarke with additional help of course. Flanagan is a very good man marker.

Argue has been starting in the league on the 40 and not at midfield. No more than McKiernan and Givney at midfield, I'm not sure Hyland likes Argue and McKiernan. They're both too attacking. He seems to favour one attacker and one defender at midfield.

Killian Brady has been one of our best players in the League. I can't see him being dropped now. He's more than earned his place.

Damien O'Reilly is vice captain and had a great season last year. He missed some of the league due to injuries and having alot of commitments (his own business, new baby) but I don't think he'll be dropped either.

The same goes for Fergal Flanagan. He is one of the first players on Hyland's team sheet it appears as he has started every championship game for the last 3 years since he was 19. I'd expect him to probably pick up Aaron McKiernan vs Armagh like he did last year. He usually picks up the opposition's best play maker and shadows them.

McLoughlin may lose out. He was found wanting against Conor McManus last year in the Monaghan game. He also had a poor match in the Kerry game iirc.

I'd expect Clarke to go in at corner back instead of Hayes myself. Hayes has played well in the league but Clarke is going to be one of the best backs in the country.

Hammar

Lemlin wrote: »

Argue has been starting in the league on the 40 and not at midfield. No more than McKiernan and Givney at midfield, I'm not sure Hyland likes Argue and McKiernan. They're both too attacking. He seems to favour one attacker and one defender at midfield.

Killian Brady has been one of our best players in the League. I can't see him being dropped now. He's more than earned his place.

Damien O'Reilly is vice captain and had a great season last year. He missed some of the league due to injuries and having alot of commitments (his own business, new baby) but I don't think he'll be dropped either.

The same goes for Fergal Flanagan. He is one of the first players on Hyland's team sheet it appears as he has started every championship game for the last 3 years since he was 19. I'd expect him to probably pick up Aaron McKiernan vs Armagh like he did last year. He usually picks up the opposition's best play maker and shadows them.

McLoughlin may lose out. He was found wanting against Conor McManus last year in the Monaghan game. He also had a poor match in the Kerry game iirc.

I'd expect Clarke to go in at corner back instead of Hayes myself. Hayes has played well in the league but Clarke is going to be one of the best backs in the country.

The problem i have with a defensive option of Killian Brady/Damien O Reily at midfield is a lack of aerial power if Armagh have their usual "twin towers" at centre field. We were eclipsed in the aerial exchanges badly in KBP last year. But i would agree with you that both have been terrific in the league and will be hard to shift and fully deserve their place.

Josh Hayes has started every McKenna Cup and league game as far i know,(I could be wrong at that) so i can't see him being shifted.

I agree with you though that there has to be a position for Killian Clarke as despite how good some of the other lads have been,Clarke is a level above in terms of quality. We may see him at corner back picking up Jamie Clarke in June. At least one of those whom are more than deserving of a place is going to lose out unfortunately. It's a good problem to have,i suppose.

Lemlin

Hammar wrote: »

The problem i have with a defensive option of Killian Brady/Damien O Reily at midfield is a lack of aerial power if Armagh have their usual "twin towers" at centre field. We were eclipsed in the aerial exchanges badly in KBP last year. But i would agree with you that both have been terrific in the league and will be hard to shift and fully deserve their place.

Josh Hayes has started every McKenna Cup and league game as far i know,(I could be wrong at that) so i can't see him being shifted.

I agree with you though that there has to be a position for Killian Clarke as despite how good some of the other lads have been,Clarke is a level above in terms of quality. We may see him at corner back picking up Jamie Clarke in June. At least one of those whom are more than deserving of a place is going to lose out unfortunately. It's a good problem to have,i suppose.

We spent most of last year losing battles at midfield. We also allowed teams like Fermanagh to persist with short kick outs and didn't push up on them.

Our system seems to be to let opponents have the ball because we are confident we'll turn it over. Once we have it, it's all about keeping it then and not wasting possession.

If Argue starts on the 40, he generally drops out to midfield to help with any kick outs. A tall defensive minded natural midfielder is one thing we lack. Mossy Corr is about the best we have for that role. Clarke could play there but I think he's needed at corner back.

Oisin Minagh played most of the league last year and then didn't get a look-in come championship. The fact is someone has to drop out and with the options available I think it can't be anyone but Hayes by a process of elimination. He has been a great asset through the league but Clarke is Clarke and he has to play.

There are plenty of lads who deserve places missing out: Givney, Ronan Flanagan, Damien Barkey, McLoughlin, Niall Murray, Mickey Lyng, Mossy Corr and others. Then we still have the 3 U21 lads to come back plus whoever else Hyland calls in from that panel. I'd expect to see James Farrelly definitely in there.

Hammar

Lemlin wrote: »

We spent most of last year losing battles at midfield. We also allowed teams like Fermanagh to persist with short kick outs and didn't push up on them.

Our system seems to be to let opponents have the ball because we are confident we'll turn it over. Once we have it, it's all about keeping it then and not wasting possession.

If Argue starts on the 40, he generally drops out to midfield to help with any kick outs. A tall defensive minded natural midfielder is one thing we lack. Mossy Corr is about the best we have for that role. Clarke could play there but I think he's needed at corner back.

Oisin Minagh played most of the league last year and then didn't get a look-in come championship. The fact is someone has to drop out and with the options available I think it can't be anyone but Hayes by a process of elimination. He has been a great asset through the league but Clarke is Clarke and he has to play.

There are plenty of lads who deserve places missing out: Givney, Ronan Flanagan, Damien Barkey, McLoughlin, Niall Murray, Mickey Lyng, Mossy Corr and others. Then we still have the 3 U21 lads to come back plus whoever else Hyland calls in from that panel. I'd expect to see James Farrelly definitely in there.

Thats actually an interesting point,I can see Clarke as that defensive midfield player with good aerial ability that we are missing,It might be next year at this stage before we see it being tried,i couldn't see Hyland trying it in an USFC match without experimenting with it in the league beforehand.

Lemlin

Hammar wrote: »

Thats actually an interesting point,I can see Clarke as that defensive midfield player with good aerial ability that we are missing,It might be next year at this stage before we see it being tried,i couldn't see Hyland trying it in an USFC match without experimenting with it in the league beforehand.

He was moved there in a couple of championship games last year iirc. I think the Derry game might be one. Fermanagh in Brewster as well.

Nice article about him here:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/cavan/cavans-killian-clarke-works-hard-to-make-it-easy-30198781.html

celt262

Oisin Minagh played most of the league last year and then didn't get a look-in come championship

The reason for that was that he emigrated and I don't think he played many league games.

Lemlin

celt262 wrote: »

The reason for that was that he emigrated and I don't think he played many league games.

The above is completely wrong.

He emigrated when the season was over:

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=199321

iirc he started the bulk of League games as McLoughlin and Clarke were not available.

Edit: just checked the first four and Minagh started all four. Games against Antrim, Monaghan, Meath and Fermanagh. I'm not bothered checking if he started the other 3 but I believe he did.

celt262

I would say you were mad in head only for the link I don't remember seen any of him in the championship and was sure he headed off early in year.

Lemlin

celt262 wrote: »

I would say you were mad in head only for the link I don't remember seen any of him in the championship and was sure he headed off early in year.

You didn't see him in the Championship. He played every league game though at corner back. He and Brady. Then both were pretty much dropped come Championship because Clarke and McLoughlin were back.

Brady only started the Armagh game because Jack was injured and he started named as a half forward.

Hammar

I've also got to throw in a good word for my fellow club mate Kevin Tierney,He's playing the best football of his life right now, Scored 0-8 from Centre Half back for us against Cootehill last weekend,probably the best performance i've ever seen him give.
The Strength and Conditioning work done under Peter Donnelly has brought him on to another level.

KeepTheFaith

Givney may struggle to get a place on the Cavan team now, he has always been more style than substance for me. Being picked on the Ulster team means very little. There's a reason he was Hyland's third choice at midfield before Gearoid and Mossy were injured last year. For a period he was 'too good to leave out' but still couldn't call any position on the field his own. He wastes far too much possession to be an automatic choice for Cavan and as the panel strengthens more reliable players will be picked.

The team named is roughly the best we have. If Jack starts I sincerely doubt he will stay in the corner. We won't be breaking up the winning formula. Jack will do what Terry has had him doing since 2012 at U21 and Senior, working around the '40 and providing dependability, taking the right options and finding the inside men with his passing range.

Good strength to the panel though and Killian Clarke, Argue, McLoughlin, Corr, Ronan Flanagan, Lyng, McKeever, are all good enough to be in the mix for a place on this side.

Roscommon won't be simple but we can go and play without any fear. There's nothing to lose but they'll stick to the gameplan and go about their business as usual.

cavan4sam

Lemlin wrote: »

Course he will. He made the grade to play for Ulster at midfield the past two years.

That cements his place as one of the best mids in Ulster yet you reckon he won't make a Dublin club team!?

To me he is a player in decline He promised a lot but has not set the world alight on the senior stage , I hope I'm wrong,
He'll be a big loss to mountnugent. If he goes,

As for ulster surely none of us are naive to believe he's one of the best midfielders

Best of luck to our seniors tomorrow evening , what stands are open ?

Lemlin

cavan4sam wrote: »

To me he is a player in decline He promised a lot but has not set the world alight on the senior stage , I hope I'm wrong,
He'll be a big loss to mountnugent. If he goes,

As for ulster surely none of us are naive to believe he's one of the best midfielders

Best of luck to our seniors tomorrow evening , what stands are open ?

His form hasn't been as good this year but I don't think he'd make that Ulster panel otherwise. Last year he was played ahead of Gearoid. Would we not all think of Gearoid as one of the best in Ulster?

The one thing I think Givney lacks is the ability to grab hold of a game by the scruff of the neck like Gearoid can. For example 2 years ago in Brewster I don't think we would have won without Gearoid on the field.

I'm unsure what stands are open, I'm in Premium

KeepTheFaith

An appearance for Ulster means nothing and it's no sort of reliable gauge of a player's ability. Judge players on their performances for their counties and especially Championship performances.

I'm almost sure the Hogan is the only stand open. I expect a very small crowd tomorrow. Tipp and Clare won't travel and the Rossies have an All Ireland Final next week.

Hammar

A Very disappointing result,but quite possibly the wake up call that we needed.
The half forward line for me,Mackey,McDermott and Martin Reily especially were immense. We struggled badly at midfield against the Roscommon "triangle" of Higgins and the two Shines, Argue and Killian Clarke coming on helped,but we have alot of areas we need to improve on greatly if we are to win in the Athletic Grounds in June.

Lemlin

What to say? Just home and very disappointed. After 15 minutes we seemed to be motoring and were knocking over points from everywhere.

Then we lost the game at midfield and went out of it totally. Some players were poor to say the least.

Rory Dunne, usually so reliable, had a shocker. Clarke wasn't great when he came on. Keating left more ball behind him than he took. Dunne missed more than he scored. We just had too many passengers and maybe it's the kick up the arse the team need.

If we play like that again, we won't beat Armagh. The sideline got things wrong as well. Why bring on poor Mickey Lyng just to pull him back off!?

The biggest sickener is that the game was there for the taking around the 60 minute mark and we kicked what I thought was four wides in a row. HS review of the game says three but I thought it was four. Either way, it was terrible.

Hopefully the lads will sit down and watch that video a good few times. There's alot to be learned. I won't even start on the goal....

Johner

Cavan didn't take their chances today, the could have been out of sight after 10 minutes and when it was level midway through the second half I think they kicked 4 wides in a row. Also the shot selection of Martin Dunne is criminal at times, he's a very talented player but a hugely frustrating one.

Hammar

Lemlin wrote: »

What to say? Just home and very disappointed. After 15 minutes we seemed to be motoring and were knocking over points from everywhere.

Then we lost the game at midfield and went out of it totally. Some players were poor to say the least.

Rory Dunne, usually so reliable, had a shocker. Clarke wasn't great when he came on. Keating left more ball behind him than he took. Dunne missed more than he scored. We just had too many passengers and maybe it's the kick up the arse the team need.

If we play like that again, we won't beat Armagh. The sideline got things wrong as well. Why bring on poor Mickey Lyng just to pull him back off!?

The biggest sickener is that the game was there for the taking around the 60 minute mark and we kicked what I thought was four wides in a row. HS review of the game says three but I thought it was four. Either way, it was terrible.

Hopefully the lads will sit down and watch that video a good few times. There's alot to be learned. I won't even start on the goal....

Mackey,McDermott,Dunne and McKiernan all missed,so you're correct, 4 in a row.
There were definitely some decisions on the sideline i questioned,
James McEnroe for me shouldn't have been the defender taken off, I know Shine caught a few balls over him around the midfield diamond,but he should never have been contesting them in the first place seeing as he gives up 4 inches in height to him. There were others than should have went before him.

Lemlin

McEnroe rarely tends to finish games. It's something I've noticed in the past. May be a fitness issue.

I thought Jack looked too rusty and shouldn't have started. He should have went off earlier IMO. I was surprised to see him for the second half.

Crash Bang Wall

We started well and were on top for the first 15. After that it went a bit pear shaped. We started to get bullied at mf, but to be fair I thought Killian Clarke done well when he came on. Where it went wrong for me though was the gk and ff line.

The goal we conceded, I have no idea what Gilsenan was doing. The guy ran straight through and Gilsenan was in no mans land. He neither closed down or stayed on his line. His kickous were poor also, especially when we were being cleaned out at mf.

And the FF line.......not at the races at all. Jack clearly short of match practice, Dunne easily missed 1-3 04 1-4. The oneat the end of the first half was criminal, straight into keepers hands from no more than 20 yards.
And Keating......so so greedy its insane. He tried two hail mary efforts in the first half from under the Hogan Stand, and in the second half when he did get on the play he rarely ussed it well. One instance when Mackey broke past him at pace on the shoulder and he held on to the ball, and lost it had me screaming.

The management were hit and miss. Clarke improved us at MF, maybe Argue could have came on, as he a more natural MF option. Cant see why Brady lasted so long either. I dont blame the lad, as he was short of match fitness, but he had very little influence on the game.

Rory Dunne was isloated more than normal, maybe its something we have to get used to, and that can definitely be worked on so it doesnt concern me too much.

We kicked a lot of scoreable wides in the second half, again something we can work on, but the FF line needs to seriouusly up their game in regards to shot selection and decision making.

Lack of a quality free taker is also killing us, Donie Shine missed nothing all night

nice_guy80

Shine missed one actually.

I said previously that Cavan will never win much at senior with the approach being taken at U21. Firstly, it lost them the game against Dublin when they should have been pushing on.
Playing defensive football at that age group will produce players who fit into a system, but then at senior when you need really high skill levels and an ability to make decisions on the ball under pressure it doesn't happen.

Crash Bang Wall

Different approach between the seniors and under 21s to be fair. 21s played more defensive because they dont have the forwards to play a more attacking game. Seniors lost the game last nite from a gready ff line, and missing a host of scoreable chances, especially in the second half

celt262

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Different approach between the seniors and under 21s to be fair. 21s played more defensive because they dont have the forwards to play a more attacking game. Seniors lost the game last nite from a gready ff line, and missing a host of scoreable chances, especially in the second half

That is not going to change though, the two lads are greedy and that won't be knocked out of them at this stage. It is a big problem but we don't have many other options.

When team run at us at pace we are in bother.

cavan4sam

As crash said the game was lost in goals and ff line
. Gilsenans kick outs were predictable and as for the goal well thats just his big day party piece
imo he should be no.3 in the line of keepers .

As for keating and dunne they had the winning of the game and fluffed it
Jack brady to me is somewhat overrated huge potential but lacks a little in confidence.

tom hayes cud be a good addition to the panel he'd add a bit more firepower and looks very strong

terry got some calls wrong on the line givney for all his faults wud have not let rossies bully us in midfield

Dunne should not have taken the penalty . I thought niall mc was our penalty taker

all in all disappointed with the result but it was a good game of football with some great score taking

Lots of schoolboy errors to work on but we should be right for armagh

.was I the only one wondering was there a fancy dress competition in croker last night some of the lads in front of me were priceless particularly the leprechauns doing the warm up beside the rossie subs .

cavan4sam

As crash said the game was lost in goals and ff line
. Gilsenans kick outs were predictable and as for the goal well thats just his big day party piece
imo he should be no.3 in the line of keepers .

As for keating and dunne they had the winning of the game and fluffed it
Jack brady to me is somewhat overrated huge potential but lacks a little in confidence.

tom hayes cud be a good addition to the panel he'd add a bit more firepower and looks very strong

terry got some calls wrong on the line givney for all his faults wud have not let rossies bully us in midfield

Dunne should not have taken the penalty . I thought niall mc was our penalty taker

all in all disappointed with the result but it was a good game of football with some great score taking

Lots of schoolboy errors to work on but we should be right for armagh

.was I the only one wondering was there a fancy dress competition in croker last night some of the lads in front of me were priceless particularly the leprechauns doing the warm up beside the rossie subs .

celt262

Dunne took any penalty we got in the league and scored them all.

Alan Clarke was lost at sea last night and coughed up 3 points and let a man stroll past him for the goal.

So between our Midfield been out of the game for long periods, our full forward line been greedy and missing way to much and our sweeper looking like he had been on he sauce for two days before the game, we got beat.

Not including the keeper but I wont slate him as i have before as others here think he can do no wrong. 3rd choice would be generous Cavan4sam.

3 out of the 4 can be fixed but its the forwards who are the real problem.

Hammar

Its good to see none of us have overreacted too much after last nights defeat.
I agree with most of which has been posted,there are a couple of changes that evidently need to be made before the Armagh game,and a few established lads who we would have thought were nearly "automatic starters" could be sweating to hold on to their places.

Gearoid had an off day in the aerial exchanges,but he played an awful lot of football and was a key instigator in our great start.
I would love to see Terry start with Gearoid@ 13/15 and allow him the freedom to drift out and become a third midfield option at times like Donie Shine was for the Rossies last night,and start Givney and Argue at midfield.

Martin Dunne is a very talented footballer who has the full array of skills but when teams crowd our full forward line out,he just doesn't have the physique to win any 50/50 balls going in. We need another option because Armagh are not going to be as naive as last year and allow the two lads the freedom of the park.

Tom Joad

I wouldn't go too overboard about last nights result - promotion was always the priority and we have achieved that. It would have been great to have a trophy in the cabinet but no doubt the result will help keep things grounded in the camp and am sure the management are well aware of the work to be done. Roscommon are a damn good team and we had plenty of chances to win the game so we weren't that far off.

But plenty to work on between now and the Athletic grounds and a few changes I would see are:

James Farrelly or Alan O'Mara starting in goals - Gilly unfortunately seems to average a brain fart a game and his kick outs are too predictable.

Killian Clarke in the back line will help out Rory Dunne - that was part of the issue last night Dunne was too isolated.

We need to settle on a midfield partnership and go with that - for me it should be Gearoid and Argue.

There's a real danger of wrecking Jack Brady by constantly sticking him into big games and expecting magic even though he's clearly rusty and not up to intercounty match speed yet. Kevin Tierney, Tom Hayes and even young Joe Dillon should be tried in friendlies between now and Armagh as other options. Givney in the full forward line is another option to try.

Dunne is just going to be one of them players who will either be brilliant if the confidence is up or shocking if its not going well - anyone fancy doing a whip around to get the lad a good sports psychologist?

Keating will continue to frustrate and I really hoped that Dublin club football would help him but sadly he still has the tendency for the hail Mary shot or not giving the ball to a better placed team mate.

What we are really crying out for in a top forward to take us to the next level.

Lemlin

We've 5 weeks now to Armagh starting with a challenge against Galway next week in Killygarry.

I think Hyland will have learned more about his team yesterday than he did over the seven other league games. There's no questioning that Roscommon were a level above the rest of the Division but the good thing is by no means were we played off the pitch. If anything, we kicked away the game ourselves.

After the top five or six teams, there's very little between the next few teams like ourselves. We have a team that are still learning and hopefully yesterday will be another vital cog in that.

It showed that midfield has to change to two big men. That we struggle when teams run at us. That the two lads up front are going to have to buck up their ideas. That the sideline needs to change things quicker - teams struggle with Mackey running at them so why not throw on Niall Smith in the odd game. That we need to move the ball quicker - how many times did we lose possession playing around with the ball within our own 21 metre line?

As I said earlier last week, I'd also like to see James Farrelly tried in goals. Gilsenan's kick outs aren't working. He cost us last year against Monaghan and he's been given his chance now and hasn't improved.

cavan4sam

Would we have moved on enough to bring back our prodigal son to beef up our forward line .

cavan4sam

Would we have moved on enough to bring back our prodigal son to beef up our forward line .

Redsoxfan

Aaron Kernan tore his hamstring playing for Crossmaglen and is a serious doubt for the game v Cavan. He would be a big loss for Armagh.

Tom Joad

cavan4sam wrote: »

Would we have moved on enough to bring back our prodigal son to beef up our forward line .

No - never going to happen.

Hammar

cavan4sam wrote: »

Would we have moved on enough to bring back our prodigal son to beef up our forward line .

He is similar to Martin Dunne,very talented skill wise,but lacks the physique to win the dirty contested ball going in. IMO hes not the type of player we need as the third member of that full forward line. We need a ball winner/target man in there.

Tom Joad

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Aaron Kernan tore his hamstring playing for Crossmaglen and is a serious doubt for the game v Cavan. He would be a big loss for Armagh.

Tough break for him if it's a serious injury but he's the poster boy for player burn out. Has rarely got a break from football between playing for Cross and Armagh over the last ten years or so. Hope it's nothing that will keep him out for too long as he's a smashing footballer.

Lemlin

Hammar wrote: »

He is similar to Martin Dunne,very talented skill wise,but lacks the physique to win the dirty contested ball going in. IMO hes not the type of player we need as the third member of that full forward line. We need a ball winner/target man in there.

There's no chance of it happening.

Even if there was, why would we bother with a player who wasn't good enough for a team who are now in the same Division as us?

As well as that, there'd be a whole media circus.

I really think people are overreacting when I see all this talk of rapid changes needed.

The bottom line is we played badly, missed numerous scorable chances and a penalty, and were still within 2 points of Roscommon at the end.

KeepTheFaith

One loss and a large group of supporters revert back to the way we reacted to defeats before the Hyland revolution: reinvent the wheel. A huge change in personnel is not needed and Johnston is not needed. Johnston was just as hot and cold as Dunne can be, people seem to forget that.
We need to look to the future for what can come in and improve us. Perhaps Paul O'Connor is a happy medium between Dunne and Keating. Hayes is a little warrior and could be a great option off the bench. Surely there's more to come from Tierney. A bit further down the line Ryan Connolly looks very promising.

Hammar

Lemlin wrote: »

There's no chance of it happening.

Even if there was, why would we bother with a player who wasn't good enough for a team who are now in the same Division as us?

As well as that, there'd be a whole media circus.

I really think people are overreacting when I see all this talk of rapid changes needed.

The bottom line is we played badly, missed numerous scorable chances and a penalty, and were still within 2 points of Roscommon at the end.

I don't personally want him back on the panel,I'm simply saying he wouldn't be an upgrade over our other options and is certainly not the type of player our FF line is crying out for.
O Connor would be a good option as Keepthefaith says, he's a good ball winner.

Smithwicks Man

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

One loss and a large group of supporters revert back to the way we reacted to defeats before the Hyland revolution: reinvent the wheel. A huge change in personnel is not needed and Johnston is not needed. Johnston was just as hot and cold as Dunne can be, people seem to forget that.
We need to look to the future for what can come in and improve us. Perhaps Paul O'Connor is a happy medium between Dunne and Keating. Hayes is a little warrior and could be a great option off the bench. Surely there's more to come from Tierney. A bit further down the line Ryan Connolly looks very promising.

Can't really see how there could possibly be anymore to come from Tierney seeing as he is consistently given only 2/3 minutes playing time at the end of every match.

Lemlin

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Can't really see how there could possibly be anymore to come from Tierney seeing as he is consistently given only 2/3 minutes playing time at the end of every match.

That's incorrect. He started and featured in a number of league games. We used near 40 players in the League so very few can say they didn't get at least one run out. Tierney would actually be one of the happier members of the panel with the playing time he got. I would like to see him played in nearer the goal as I have said previously but Tierney was given ample chance in the league.

It was frustrating that he didn't get longer on the pitch the other evening but remember the match was level until about 64 or 65 minutes so there wasn't alot of time left when Roscommon went ahead to get players on.

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

One loss and a large group of supporters revert back to the way we reacted to defeats before the Hyland revolution: reinvent the wheel. A huge change in personnel is not needed and Johnston is not needed. Johnston was just as hot and cold as Dunne can be, people seem to forget that.
We need to look to the future for what can come in and improve us. Perhaps Paul O'Connor is a happy medium between Dunne and Keating. Hayes is a little warrior and could be a great option off the bench. Surely there's more to come from Tierney. A bit further down the line Ryan Connolly looks very promising.

Sadly, it seems to be the Cavan way. Sure we went a number of years changing managers while leaving the same players there churning out the same crap on the pitch. Val Andrews had the balls to change it then and now Terry, as was always the plan, is pulling us on. People are quick to forget that we went from a team that hadn't beaten a team in the Ulster championship outside Division 4 sides (Antrim or Fermanagh) to the last 8 in the country last year.

If anything, last year's progress was too rapid and now people are expecting too much.

cavan4sam

so its fairly clear all is not forgiven , was just testing the waters

i'd like to see terry trying the option of trying a big target man on the square rotating to midfield ie.givney gearoid and michael argue , i thought keating and dunne were isolated in the ff line last week and maybe a 3 man ff line cud be an option with a roaming full forward playing a 3rd midfielder role if needed

i dont think there will be too many changes to the 15 that started on saturday maybe 3 or 4 max , clarke will be in and hopefully o mara or farrelly in goals and maybe 1 or 2 changes in the forward line

hopefully we can stay injury free between now and armagh

Lemlin

cavan4sam wrote: »

so its fairly clear all is not forgiven , was just testing the waters

i'd like to see terry trying the option of trying a big target man on the square rotating to midfield ie.givney gearoid and michael argue , i thought keating and dunne were isolated in the ff line last week and maybe a 3 man ff line cud be an option with a roaming full forward playing a 3rd midfielder role if needed

i dont think there will be too many changes to the 15 that started on saturday maybe 3 or 4 max , clarke will be in and hopefully o mara or farrelly in goals and maybe 1 or 2 changes in the forward line

hopefully we can stay injury free between now and armagh

Where would you see the 1 or 2 changes in the forward line though? For me, the half forward line played well. Martin Reilly would have been my man of the match and McDermott and Mackey were good.

Then you have Dunne and Keating in the forward line and I can't see either of them being moved out. So all you are left with is Jack's position.

I do think Argue starting in or around the 40 and dropping out to midfield will be tried. It's what was happening in a few of the league games. I'd say Niall would be named in the corner but drop out.

Speaking to a a few, it's understood that Dunne has been playing well in training and they're as perplexed about him missing the chances as we all are. We just have to hope he'll have his shooting boots back on by June 8th.

I agree re the lads being isolated. I think we need to work on getting the ball forward quicker. It's a problem that isn't going away at this stage. We're simply too slow on the counter.

I'd like to see the game plan change in the odd game. Imagine a full forward line of Givney, Keating and Argue or Tierney and high balls raining down on them.

We're too predictable IMO. The gamelan needs to be mixed up a bit.

cavan4sam

Lemlin wrote: »

Where would you see the 1 or 2 changes in the forward line though? For me, the half forward line played well. Martin Reilly would have been my man of the match and McDermott and Mackey were good.

Then you have Dunne and Keating in the forward line and I can't see either of them being moved out. So all you are left with is Jack's position.

I do think Argue starting in or around the 40 and dropping out to midfield will be tried. It's what was happening in a few of the league games. I'd say Niall would be named in the corner but drop out.

Speaking to a a few, it's understood that Dunne has been playing well in training and they're as perplexed about him missing the chances as we all are. We just have to hope he'll have his shooting boots back on by June 8th.

I agree re the lads being isolated. I think we need to work on getting the ball forward quicker. It's a problem that isn't going away at this stage. We're simply too slow on the counter.

I'd like to see the game plan change in the odd game. Imagine a full forward line of Givney, Keating and Argue or Tierney and high balls raining down on them.

We're too predictable IMO. The gamelan needs to be mixed up a bit.

i think jack brady and if keating continues his erratic shooting could be in danger of losing his position , i know he has won a few games for us but we still managed without him when he was injured


i wonder does he get away with that sort of play with the syls ?

i know he got a blue star last year in dublin so he obviously had a good year , but if he cud calm himself down a little i think he could become so much better

As for dunne we know what he is capable of so i doubt he will be going anywhere although i've noticed when he is up against a more physical opponent he fades out of games

anyway i dont think any of our problems aren't fixable with a little bit of tweaking here and there

Hammar

cavan4sam wrote: »

i think jack brady and if keating continues his erratic shooting could be in danger of losing his position , i know he has won a few games for us but we still managed without him when he was injured


i wonder does he get away with that sort of play with the syls ?

i know he got a blue star last year in dublin so he obviously had a good year , but if he cud calm himself down a little i think he could become so much better

As for dunne we know what he is capable of so i doubt he will be going anywhere although i've noticed when he is up against a more physical opponent he fades out of games

anyway i dont think any of our problems aren't fixable with a little bit of tweaking here and there

We've got to take into account with himself and Alan Clarke, that both missed games and training in the league due to injury,so they couldn't have been match fit last Saturday night.4/5 weeks of training/inter panel games will bring them on in that regards.

Crash Bang Wall

Hammar wrote: »

We've got to take into account with himself and Alan Clarke, that both missed games and training in the league due to injury,so they couldn't have been match fit last Saturday night.4/5 weeks of training/inter panel games will bring them on in that regards.

Clarke was very sluggish on Sat, but Keating hasnt got an excuse. He missed a couple of weeks injured. Hes just greedy IMO, and it needs to be worked on. Our 50%ish shots to scores ratio (pretty sure I heard Terry say that what it was a few weeks ago) isnt anywhere near good enough. You can have bad misses, any team has, but there is no need to be shooting from crazy positions (under the Hogan Stand twice for example) when players are in better positions. Its fixing things like this that brings teams on top the next level, and with the lack of quality forwards in the Under 21s for example, those that we have need to cop on and make better decisions. Ability with Duune and Keating isnt the problem. Its the decision making that needs to improve, and that most definitely can be worked on