The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

celt262

munchkin_utd wrote: »

might explain the comments of the "head" of the band who points the blame at the 2 teams and makes special mention of Cavan, possibly to deflect attention from their part in the confusion.

well, if one thing comes of this then maybe the band at an Ulster game will be rotated seeing as they are partially to blame for the melee.

Is it possible that Mckeever told her not to move?

Lemlin

For me the whole lot was clearly premeditated by Armagh. Grimley's comments since and this ludicrous suggestion about the home team always parading on the outside being protocol prove that.

The problem is Cavan fell for it. I'd agree there have to be serious question marks over Clarke's position as captain. At the end of the day he led the charge in and it was a very ill advised move.

I'd expect he and McKeever to get the longest bans and quite rightly so. A friend from Armagh tells me that BBC had very good videos of the incident last night which didn't look good for McKeever, Kieran Toner, Andy Mallon, Donaghy and James Morgan from Armagh. And on the Cavan side Rory Dunne, Fergal Flanagan, Conor Gilsenan and Damien O'Reilly.

celt262

Lemlin wrote: »

For me the whole lot was clearly premeditated by Armagh. Grimley's comments since and this ludicrous suggestion about the home team always parading on the outside being protocol prove that.

The problem is Cavan fell for it. I'd agree there have to be serious question marks over Clarke's position as captain. At the end of the day he led the charge in and it was a very ill advised move.

I'd expect he and McKeever to get the longest bans and quite rightly so. A friend from Armagh tells me that BBC had very good videos of the incident last night which didn't look good for McKeever, Kieran Toner, Andy Mallon, Donaghy and James Morgan from Armagh. And on the Cavan side Rory Dunne, Fergal Flanagan, Conor Gilsenan and Damien O'Reilly.

Any link to this footage?

Lemlin

celt262 wrote: »

Any link to this footage?

Nope, I haven't seen it myself. Just going on what this Armagh man told me. He has also said that he did clearly see McGeeney talking to McKeever at the goals before the parade.

J Cheever Loophole

Lemlin wrote: »

Nope, I haven't seen it myself. Just going on what this Armagh man told me. He has also said that he did clearly see McGeeney talking to McKeever at the goals before the parade.

Aye - the two of them have form here - they regularly talk before matches and when challenged about it will use the old excuse about Assistant Manager / Captain discussions. This excuse quite rightly fools no-one.

I won't broach the subject of the 'brawl' further as it is likely to raise emotions and will serve no purpose.

Just wanted to say commiserations on Sunday - I would assume that the result was a body blow given that the Cavan trend (to my mind) had been very much upwards, with the 100% record in the group stages of the league particularly impressive. The loss of Dunne and Mackey I feel was acutely felt, particularly given the lack of penetration in the first half.

In contrast we would have been very pleased with the victory and I'd have to say I was surprised by our ability to break through your defence to create goal chances - Gilsenan had an excellent game denying us on more than one occasion.

That said, I think we are going to find it very difficult the next day out regardless of the opposition, and particularly if there are repercussions from Sunday.

Anyway, best of luck for the qualifiers - always hope to see a fellow Ulster side (outsie of our immediate neighbours) do well!!

Crash Bang Wall

Thoughts on the game, since the dust has settled:

Firstly, we were bloody awful. The parade was a shambles, and I hope we dont lose players over it.

One of the main problems, IMO, is ball carring and speed of attacks. We are too pedestrian. I agree to a point that retaining possession rather than lumping in 50/50 balls is important, but we seem to relucatant to get the ball forward at pace. Mackey is the only player that can carry the ball with pace. I got very frustrated, with McDermott in particular, for tring to plough through 2/3 players and getting turned over. Keatings selfishness is ridiculous. He very rarely looks to pass the ball, shooting is the only thought in his head. This needs to be addressed.

I see that the Armagh fb line were very tight, man-to-man. Why cant the full forward line make runs out leaving space for half forwards to run into. Not saying it would work but its a wee bit better than what went on in the first half. When there is no space there, you have to find ways of creating it.

When it did look like we were getting back into the game, the goal was a real sucker punch.

If lessons are learned from the match, and Gearoid, Mackey and the other injured players get some training under their belts, I would fancy us giving Westmeath a game, and give us a chance of beating them.

We cant play as badly again

petronius

For too long the GAA has tolerated violence in the sport until they punish teams and players for brawls the game will not be able to rid itself of the problem and will always be discredited by them.
Someone on the sideline tried to hit player in the brawl he should also be punished.

It is macho bravado nonsense which persists in the sport which annoys me, comments like "gave him a slap" or "sorted him out" or it was "only handbags not a punch was thrown".

If a player was banned for violent conduct and bringing the game into disrepute for 3months or 6months and not having his back slapped at a club game the following weekend

Crash Bang Wall

celt262 wrote: »

Any link to this footage?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/armagh-v-cavan-fight-mars-gaa-game-before-it-even-begins-30339002.html

some videos here

watch the second one....armagh no 2 clearly waiting on a row

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1zlI8OUjdc

McKeever should be in trouble if this is seen. Doing a great job of trying to choke Damien O'Reilly

Hammar

petronius wrote: »

For too long the GAA has tolerated violence in the sport until they punish teams and players for brawls the game will not be able to rid itself of the problem and will always be discredited by them.
Someone on the sideline tried to hit player in the brawl he should also be punished.

It is macho bravado nonsense which persists in the sport which annoys me, comments like "gave him a slap" or "sorted him out" or it was "only handbags not a punch was thrown".

If a player was banned for violent conduct and bringing the game into disrepute for 3months or 6months and not having his back slapped at a club game the following weekend

Do you feel better now after that little outburst?

mickmackey1

52000 views on youtube after 2 days, not bad :pac:

cavan4sam

Still kind of baffled whether or not Dunne got injured in the warm up or the skirmish ?

It didn't look good on tv and bans will and should be handed out .

this is our 2nd time in a couple of months involved in controversy and its nothing to be proud of

From what I saw of the game and team selection it looked very like hyland picked his team in croke park last august and not on recent form

anyway whatever the fall out of this is we should take it on the chin and move on

westmeath may just be a little too strong for us this year but we always have a good tussle with them

cavan4sam

Still kind of baffled whether or not Dunne got injured in the warm up or the skirmish ?

It didn't look good on tv and bans will and should be handed out .

this is our 2nd time in a couple of months involved in controversy and its nothing to be proud of

From what I saw of the game and team selection it looked very like hyland picked his team in croke park last august and not on recent form

anyway whatever the fall out of this is we should take it on the chin and move on

westmeath may just be a little too strong for us this year but we always have a good tussle with them

petronius

I find the use of the word "skirmish" to display the acceptance of many GAA folk of the presence of such violence in the sport.
It needs to be weeded out.

cavan4sam

petronius wrote: »

I find the use of the word "skirmish" to display the acceptance of many GAA folk of the presence of such violence in the sport.
It needs to be weeded out.

well what would you call it so ?
I'd hardly call it a brawl

cavan4sam

petronius wrote: »

I find the use of the word "skirmish" to display the acceptance of many GAA folk of the presence of such violence in the sport.
It needs to be weeded out.

well what would you call it so ?
I'd hardly call it a brawl

soap1978

cavan4sam wrote: »

Still kind of baffled whether or not Dunne got injured in the warm up or the skirmish ?

It didn't look good on tv and bans will and should be handed out .

this is our 2nd time in a couple of months involved in controversy and its nothing to be proud of

From what I saw of the game and team selection it looked very like hyland picked his team in croke park last august and not on recent form

anyway whatever the fall out of this is we should take it on the chin and move on

westmeath may just be a little too strong for us this year but we always have a good tussle with them

Westmeath to strong for cavan,come on after the year cavan had we should win against the likes of westmeath at home

Lemlin

Martine Dunne probably won't feature again this season:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2014/0611/623009-cavan/

Cavan’s Martin Dunne will be out of action for at least a month after suffering multiple fractures in his hand and wrist during the pre-match brawl with Armagh in Sunday's Ulster SFC clash.

The Irish Daily Star reports that Dunne, who saw a specialist in Dublin yesterday, may have been stepped on during the melee, which is under investigation.

Cavan host Westmeath in the first round of the qualifiers on 21 June.

The above should read 28th June. Error in the report.

soap1978 wrote: »

Westmeath to strong for cavan,come on after the year cavan had we should win against the likes of westmeath at home

The way we played on Sunday we're back to the days of not having expectations to beat anyone.

Alfred Borden

Westmeath fan here, ye will absolutely batter us if ye play to yeer potential, we are rubbish.

cavan4sam

soap1978 wrote: »

Westmeath to strong for cavan,come on after the year cavan had we should win against the likes of westmeath at home

are you forgetting that westmeath were playing division 1 football ??
tell me one quality team we have beaten in competetive football this year that you would rate above a division 1 team ,

i think this will make us a team if we beat westmeath without some of our most influential players ie. clarke and dunne

soap1978

cavan4sam wrote: »

are you forgetting that westmeath were playing division 1 football ??
tell me one quality team we have beaten in competetive football this year that you would rate above a division 1 team ,

i think this will make us a team if we beat westmeath without some of our most influential players ie. clarke and dunne

Derry last year,division one semi finalist this year

tanko

tanko wrote: »

Strange comments from the band leader. The girls holding the flags didn't help the situation. When Mckeever stood behind the Cavan flag the other girl with the Armagh flag asked her to swap places which she refused to do. If they had swapped places all the trouble would have been avoided.

The behaviour of both teams was disgraceful. From a Cavan point of view I hope the players have realised that no scores are awarded for what happens before the game starts. Alan Clarkes position as team captain must be in serious doubt.

It seems like I was harsh on the girl carrying the Cavan flag. According to the Anglo Celt she said would have had absolutely no problem moving across to the opposite side had she been asked politely. According to her, Mckeever came up to her and said "move". She said "pardon" and he said "move to f**k to the other side". If he had asked her politely she says she would have said said "certainly, no problem". I can't blame her for not moving over after being spoken to like that.
It turns out the woman carrying the Armagh flag is an aunt of one of the Armagh players.

willabur

soap1978 wrote: »

Derry last year,division one semi finalist this year

finalist!?

willabur

tanko wrote: »

It seems like I was harsh on the girl carrying the Cavan flag. According to the Anglo Celt she said would have had absolutely no problem moving across to the opposite side had she been asked politely. According to her, Mckeever came up to her and said "move". She said "pardon" and he said "move to f**k to the other side". If he had asked her politely she says she would have said said "certainly, no problem". I can't blame her for not moving over after being spoken to like that.
It turns out the woman carrying the Armagh flag is an aunt of one of the Armagh players.

this account would wing through with what I saw, she was not impressed by what mckeever said to her

Lemlin

Hopefully the juniors can win tonight. Apparently it was on the radio this morning that up to twenty players could recieve suspensions. I'd be amazed if it was that many to be honest. I'm expecting four or five from each team.

celt262

Lemlin wrote: »

Hopefully the juniors can win tonight. Apparently it was on the radio this morning that up to twenty players could recieve suspensions. I'd be amazed if it was that many to be honest. I'm expecting four or five from each team.

We could be needing them for the Westmeath game!

Lemlin

celt262 wrote: »

We could be needing them for the Westmeath game!

Well they've lost Turloc Mooney since the last game. I'd say a few could be drafted in for the next senior game. Christopher Conroy, Paul O'Connor and Philip Tinnelly could all easily feature against Westmeath. James Farrelly could too if Gilly gets a suspension.

KeepTheFaith

Dunne broke his hand throwing a box it looks like. People going way overboard about the skirmish, these things happen. We had years there where a Cavan player wouldn't give a sidways f*** what flag he was marching behind, fair play to Alan Clarke he saw McKeever's actions as a slight or a challenge and went for him. It was unfortunate that we lost Dunne as a result but it was his own fault he shouldn't have been throwing a box at a player on the ground. It had little or no effect on the game, Cavan got the first two scores and the game went away from us after the initial stages.

As for Westmeath, they're not a Division 1 standard team. A few decent players in Heslin and Glennon has his moments but when the going gets tough he is usually nowhere to be found So I'd expect us to put it up to them well in Breffni. We may be without the bones of our team depending on suspensions though. No need to reinvent the wheel just get back on track, try to tweak our attacks and penetrate more effectively, up our game at midfield and keep doing what we've been doing in defence and we we won't be far away I would think.

How the team reacts to the criticism and performance from Sunday's game will be a good indicator. Hope to see a good response.

Lemlin

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Dunne broke his hand throwing a box it looks like. People going way overboard about the skirmish, these things happen. We had years there where a Cavan player wouldn't give a sidways f*** what flag he was marching behind, fair play to Alan Clarke he saw McKeever's actions as a slight or a challenge and went for him. It was unfortunate that we lost Dunne as a result but it was his own fault he shouldn't have been throwing a box at a player on the ground. It had little or no effect on the game, Cavan got the first two scores and the game went away from us after the initial stages.

As for Westmeath, they're not a Division 1 standard team. A few decent players in Heslin and Glennon has his moments but when the going gets tough he is usually nowhere to be found So I'd expect us to put it up to them well in Breffni. We may be without the bones of our team depending on suspensions though. No need to reinvent the wheel just get back on track, try to tweak our attacks and penetrate more effectively, up our game at midfield and keep doing what we've been doing in defence and we we won't be far away I would think.

How the team reacts to the criticism and performance from Sunday's game will be a good indicator. Hope to see a good response.

The scans have pointed towards Dunne's arm being stood on. I heard a rumour from the Armagh side that he injured it trying to hit Jamie Clarke but I think that's as correct as their protocol that the home team should always march on the outside of a pre match parade.

Hopefully the good response starts with the juniors tonight.

KeepTheFaith

I've seen a video of Dunne throwing a punch at Clarke who is on the ground with his left hand and then holding his hand afterwards. It's not very clear granted but it certainly looks like that's how he done it. Unless he ended up on the ground after that incident but I don't think he did.

Yes a win for the Juniors would take some of the bad taste away. There may then be a reluctance to play them at the senior games making them ineligible for junior football.

tayto lover

Lemlin wrote: »

The scans have pointed towards Dunne's arm being stood on. I heard a rumour from the Armagh side that he injured it trying to hit Jamie Clarke but I think that's as correct as their protocol that the home team should always march on the outside of a pre match parade.

Hopefully the good response starts with the juniors tonight.

This might explain how he got his injury.
Didn't think he had it in him if it happened this way.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRDpEqXDM2g

KeepTheFaith

Yes that's the video I saw. It looks like a very soft box though and Clarke was under the other Cavan player, I'd be surprised if that resulted in multiple fractures but maybe..

Tom Joad

Good news

Cavan 0-17 Louth 0-8. Seemed a fairly straightforward win. Longford in the final.

Lemlin

Tom Joad wrote: »

Good news

Cavan 0-17 Louth 0-8. Seemed a fairly straightforward win. Longford in the final.

I was hoping for Meath. Good to see Niall Smith and Lyng involved. I wonder is Terry readying a few lads for Westmeath.

As for the Dunne video, I don't for a second believe that punch thrown resulted in multiple fractures.

Tom Joad

Lemlin wrote: »

I was hoping for Meath. Good to see Niall Smith and Lyng involved. I wonder is Terry readying a few lads for Westmeath.

As for the Dunne video, I don't for a second believe that punch thrown resulted in multiple fractures.

We've probably been in more leinster finals that Meath recently :D. But yeah would have added something to the final if it was ourselves and Meath.

Hard to have sympathy for him to be honest but hopefully he will learn his lesson even it was a hard way to learn it- he was the main Cavan protagonist from what I saw. He'll be getting a ban anyway i'd said based on that footage.

Neither Cavan nor Armagh covered themselves in glory.

I do think we are going too hard on the team though. Losing your star forward in the warm-up would throw any teams plan awry and especially when he is the freetaker. Add in an injured Mackey, no Killian Clarke and a clearly struggling GMac it's not surprising we struggled so badly - not many counties outside Dublin could cope with them kind of losses before a championship game.

Hopefully the team will rally before the Westmeath game and the year won't be a write off championship wise.

cavan4sam

soap1978 wrote: »

Derry last year,division one semi finalist this year

i said THIS year

Lemlin

Suspensions wil be announced at 3 o'clock today I was told earlier.

Tom Joad wrote: »

I do think we are going too hard on the team though. Losing your star forward in the warm-up would throw any teams plan awry and especially when he is the freetaker. Add in an injured Mackey, no Killian Clarke and a clearly struggling GMac it's not surprising we struggled so badly - not many counties outside Dublin could cope with them kind of losses before a championship game.

Hopefully the team will rally before the Westmeath game and the year won't be a write off championship wise.

Tbh the goal for the year was to reach Division 2 and that has been achieved. A run in the qualifiers would be nice to give us a few days out but we were probably a bit spoilt last year in that regard.

Edit: a member of the Cavan media told me suspensions were being announced at 3 but there's no sign of anything yet.

Lemlin

Feargal Flanagan and Martin Dunne the only two Cavan players suspended. Just waiting on the official newspiece here.

I find it amazing that Alan Clarke and some others haven't been tbh.

tayto lover

Goes to show that Dunne was not innocent.
Still can't believe it from him. Always thought he was too meek.

Crash Bang Wall

tayto lover wrote: »

Goes to show that Dunne was not innocent.
Still can't believe it from him. Always thought he was too meek.

I cant believe McKeever didnt get a ban. His headlock on Damien O'Reilly had the chap struggling for breath.....was talking to one of the players who said this was the case.

In the case of Martin Dunne, he deserves his ban, but Im not sure why Fergal Flanagan was singled out though.

Over on the Hoganstand, Grimley is getting a lot of credit for breaking up the row. Easy to do that when you knew the thing was going to happen.

McKeever also lucky not to get a red card in the match itself for a box to Mackeys jaw....he got a yellow!!

If this is based on Marty Duffys report, why didnt he send off all the players mentioned? If it was based on that plus video evidence then McKeever should be in big trouble

cameroon15

As the general consensus is that we lack natural scoring forwards to take us to the next level , I was just curious to know if people believe we have a Conor McManus , Donal O'Hare, Ronan O'Neill ,etc. coming through in our ranks ? As I seen pointed out previously ,we are yet to see the majority of our successful U21 panels feature on the senior scene, so it is not panic stations just yet, these boys need time. Have we 4 or 5 classy forwards in our underage teams from the past 3-4 years capable of stepping up?

Hammar

cameroon15 wrote: »

As the general consensus is that we lack natural scoring forwards to take us to the next level , I was just curious to know if people believe we have a Conor McManus , Donal O'Hare, Ronan O'Neill ,etc. coming through in our ranks ? As I seen pointed out previously ,we are yet to see the majority of our successful U21 panels feature on the senior scene, so it is not panic stations just yet, these boys need time. Have we 4 or 5 classy forwards in our underage teams from the past 3-4 years capable of stepping up?

Not sure if i'd put Donal O' Hare and Ronan O Neil in Conor McManus's class to be honest.
As for scoring forwards, I have a great hope that Conor Madden can develop into a top forward,he was destroyed by injuries this year,but is under 21 again next year as well.
Paul O'Connor must get a chance if he is fit versus Westmeath for me.
There are other younger lads that have promise,Ben Kiernan,Ryan Connolly,Pierce Smith and of course Tom Hayes etc,but its far too early to label them as being the next "big things".
I will say one thing though, Next years under 21's will probably have a greater supply of quality forward options than any of the individual 4 in a row teams had.
I'm not saying we will win another Ulster,but i'd be excited about them.

cameroon15

Hammar wrote: »

Not sure if i'd put Donal O' Hare and Ronan O Neil in Conor McManus's class to be honest.
As for scoring forwards, I have a great hope that Conor Madden can develop into a top forward,he was destroyed by injuries this year,but is under 21 again next year as well.
Paul O'Connor must get a chance if he is fit versus Westmeath for me.
There are other younger lads that have promise,Ben Kiernan,Ryan Connolly,Pierce Smith and of course Tom Hayes etc,but its far too early to label them as being the next "big things".
I will say one thing though, Next years under 21's will probably have a greater supply of quality forward options than any of the individual 4 in a row teams had.
I'm not saying we will win another Ulster,but i'd be excited about them.

True,McManus is a proven inter county forward at this stage , for me O'Neill has the potential to be the best forward in Ulster in 2-3 years time.
When you say we mightn't win another Ulster title with this group, would you sacrifice another Ulster title if we were to produce a forward or 2 who scored 5 or 6 points per game?

Lemlin

cameroon15 wrote: »

As the general consensus is that we lack natural scoring forwards to take us to the next level , I was just curious to know if people believe we have a Conor McManus , Donal O'Hare, Ronan O'Neill ,etc. coming through in our ranks ? As I seen pointed out previously ,we are yet to see the majority of our successful U21 panels feature on the senior scene, so it is not panic stations just yet, these boys need time. Have we 4 or 5 classy forwards in our underage teams from the past 3-4 years capable of stepping up?

Alot of people are expecting Paul O'Connor to deliver. He's certainly playing well for the juniors.

For me, we need a few more more physical players in there. Someone made a good point to me this morning. We've probably two if not more lads that are too light.

List out the players and you are looking at McLoughlin, McVeety, Mackey, Dunne, Jack Brady and Martin Reilly. I'd like to see Corr and McKeever perhaps in from the start against Westmeath. Might help balance out the team a bit.

Hammar

cameroon15 wrote: »

True,McManus is a proven inter county forward at this stage , for me O'Neill has the potential to be the best forward in Ulster in 2-3 years time.
When you say we mightn't win another Ulster title with this group, would you sacrifice another Ulster title if we were to produce a forward or 2 who scored 5 or 6 points per game?

Absolutely.

Lemlin

Dara McVeety leaves for the States on Wednesday. I wish the lad well but think he should have told management before the Armagh game like Clarke did.

Still, these lads have alot of football played so they could do with the break.

I'm hearing there was a 4 hour plus meeting on the Monday night after the Armagh game so dedication certainly isn't an issue. The intensity has apparently been ramped up at the in-house training games as well.

KeepTheFaith

Hammar wrote: »

Not sure if i'd put Donal O' Hare and Ronan O Neil in Conor McManus's class to be honest.
As for scoring forwards, I have a great hope that Conor Madden can develop into a top forward,he was destroyed by injuries this year,but is under 21 again next year as well.
Paul O'Connor must get a chance if he is fit versus Westmeath for me.
There are other younger lads that have promise,Ben Kiernan,Ryan Connolly,Pierce Smith and of course Tom Hayes etc,but its far too early to label them as being the next "big things".
I will say one thing though, Next years under 21's will probably have a greater supply of quality forward options than any of the individual 4 in a row teams had.
I'm not saying we will win another Ulster,but i'd be excited about them.

You think so? Hayes, Madden, Galligan, Kiernan, Ryan Connolly.. All have decent potential but I don't think any can claim to be better than Jack, McDermott, Tierney, O'Conoor, Reilly etc..

Hammar

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

You think so? Hayes, Madden, Galligan, Kiernan, Ryan Connolly.. All have decent potential but I don't think any can claim to be better than Jack, McDermott, Tierney, O'Conoor, Reilly etc..

No,what i was saying i believe next years under 21 selection of forwards will in my opinion be the best collective group of forwards we have had on one team.


2011 ,Niall Smith,Niall Murray,Barry Reily,Niall McDermott,Jack Brady,Packie Leddy.

2012,Joe Dillon,Chris Conroy, Fergal Flanagan,Jack Brady,Kevin Tierney,Raymond Lynch.

2013, Turlough Mooney ,Chris Conroy, Gerard Smith ,Enda Reily,Paul O Connor,Jack Brady

2014,Aaron Watson ,Dara McVeety, Enda Flanagan,Paul Graham,Joe Dillon,Tom Hayes.

2011 was probably the best collective group that we had,and that of course was with Barry Reily carrying a bad injury throughout the campaign.

KevIRL

Well played this guy

Lemlin

Anyone know when a time for the game next weekend is being announced?

celt262

Lemlin wrote: »

Anyone know when a time for the game next weekend is being announced?

It's a joke that they are keeping this a secret.