The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

premierstone

cavan4sam wrote: »

while i agree that we are no footballing superpower i know donegal are certainly none either and i see a bleak year in store from them too
i sincerely hope you are eating humble pie sunday evening
and 1 final word of advice save yourself the entry fee into breffini on sunday because cavan have enough knockers at the games who thrive on it
and you my friend are one of those


and by the way i'm not on or have never posted on hogan stand but i might just start because obviously they have discussions and that is why you dont like it

I'm not or never have knocked Cavan football, I have knocked the County Board and Val Andrews plenty, and I think I have been vindicated on both points, and I certainly have no intention of driving to Breffini, but I do wish Cavan the best of luck none of what has happened is the players who will line out fault.

keane2097

I'd say he meant to quote Lemlin, he thanked your post.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

So if they were droped for reasons outside of their footballing ability why was McCutcheon recalled as soon as Andrews was removed?? Is Hyland blind to these so called flaws?? Did John attend therapy while in exile??

And yes you have questioned Seanies ability on numerous occasions, you have said he is not a team player, not commited, lacking of effort and not consistent enough, you went as far as to suggest McGeeney would get sick of waiting for Seanie to have one of he's good days and get rid of him before it happened.

If Cavan are as bad as you make out (and I agree) then surely he's inconsistency shouldnt be a problem because If he could win ye say one big game every 3 years, it would be more than what will be achieved without him.

McCutcheon was not dropped by Andrews. He walked away from the panel himself having been told that he may not feature as much as expected. Again, please read mine and other people's previous posts if you wish to contribute. There's no point wading in and going over previous posts.

Kildare and Cavan are two very different beasts. You asked me about Seanie's ability for Cavan. I commented on it. Now you're moving the goalposts to Kildare. I would continue to say that Seanie is not commited enough (when it comes to the Cavan setup, he may be when it comes to a hugely commited Kildare panel), not consistent enough for a top 8 team like Kildare are given the forwards they already have, and is not a team player, be it for Cavan or Kildare. In terms of Cavan, it's his commitment that takes him out of the reckoning. It could probably be ignored that he isn't a team player if he was at least commited.

As I've said many times in previous posts, which you obviously haven't read, why should we continue to have the talent coming through each year come into a senior team which is hugely unprofessional. Why not cut the uncommited members of the panel and move forward with those who are commited, so at least the young players who are currently motivated will stay that way. It's a vicious circle, I've said previously I have no doubt that at one stage Seanie was hugely commited to the Cavan cause but years of watching the crap that has gone on in the panel has destroyed that. Now I don't want the same happening to the next generation of players.

Johnston has been there the last six years and we've beaten Fermanagh, Wicklow and Antrim in Championship football. Are those the "big games" you are referring to him helping us win every three years?

I'd take a commited panel of individuals who grind out results over "stars" any day of the week.

premierstone

keane2097 wrote: »

I'd say he meant to quote Lemlin, he thanked your post.

Ah yeah I see that now, makes a bit more sense alright, cavan4sam please ignore my previos post

Lemlin

cavan4sam wrote: »

while i agree that we are no footballing superpower i know donegal are certainly none either and i see a bleak year in store from them too
i sincerely hope you are eating humble pie sunday evening
and 1 final word of advice save yourself the entry fee into breffini on sunday because cavan have enough knockers at the games who thrive on it
and you my friend are one of those

and by the way i'm not on or have never posted on hogan stand but i might just start because obviously they have discussions and that is why you dont like it

A bleak year in store for Donegal? Yes, they've just cemented their place in Division 1. A very bleak year for them so. They are also the current Ulster champions and almost made the All-Ireland final last year.

The term "no footballing superpower" is actually giving Cavan a compliment. We're not in the same stratosphere as a footballing superpower.

I certainly hope I am eating humble pie Sunday evening too but I'm a realist and I know I won't be. I am no friend of yours and I am also no knocker. I'm a realist. I expect Cavan to lose because I know it is going to take years to get things right in the county. I certianly won't be going there like certain idiots who will be calling for the managers head as soon as we lose. Yes lads, changing managers 4 times in five years has worked wonders for Cavan football.

I'll be there to support Cavan, not knock them. I'll discuss anything you like if you could manage to put an educated piece worth discussing together. That would start by realising there's a thing called a shift key or caps lock for capital letters.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

McCutcheon was not dropped by Andrews. He walked away from the panel himself having been told that he may not feature as much as expected. Again, please read mine and other people's previous posts if you wish to contribute. There's no point wading in and going over previous posts.

As I've said many times in previous posts, which you obviously haven't read

I'd take a commited panel of individuals who grind out results over "stars" any day of the week.

SO McCutcheon sulked and walked away, ok that's an excellent precedent to set for these youngsters coming in that you talk of, double standards perhaps?? Or would it have anything to do with the fact he is not from Cavan Gaels??

Please refrain from telling me what I have and havent read, yes ocassionally I have nodded of reading your incoherernt ramblings but that is to be expected in fairness.

Surely the ideal situation would be to have a panel of committed player and stars rather than one over the other??

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

SO McCutcheon sulked and walked away, ok that's an excellent precedent to set for these youngsters coming in that you talk of, double standards perhaps?? Or would it have anything to do with the fact he is not from Cavan Gaels??

Please refrain from telling me what I have and havent read, yes ocassionally I have nodded of reading your incoherernt ramblings but that is to be expected in fairness.

Surely the ideal situation would be to have a panel of committed player and stars rather than one over the other??

I don't see what Cavan Gaels has to do with this, can you expand on that point?

As for McCutcheon, I don't know the lad so I can only comment on the rumours and what local media have said. One rumour was that he was asked to play full back, didn't think he could play there, had a disagreement with the manager and walked.

The other one is that he was told he wouldn't feature as much as expected and walked. Which is true I don't know but either way, your original point that Hyland asked a player back who Andrews had dismissed is incorrect. And, as I said, if you'd read the thread, you'd be aware of that. Of the six or so players that Andrews dropped, none are back in the panel.

It's clear from your posts what you haven't read. All I'm proposing is that if you wish to comment that you at least take time to read previous posts rather than wading in and forcing others to rehash on points that have already been made.

So you'd be of the opinion that managers should put up with players who clearly aren't commited? I wouldn't be. Doing that for years in Cavan hasn't worked so why would you be against a new approach in the county?
We've tried the system you are talking about for long enough now. It's time the crap stopped. Johnston and others have been put up with for a number of seasons so why continue? They haven't yielded results.

Pete_Cavan

The team named is nowhere near good enough to challenge Donegal, unfortunitely we havent anyone else. Looks like Terry is going to use his tactic from last years U21 team, giving Meehan a free role from wing back with Flanagan coming back to cover his man. I would love to see them call Donegals bluff, if they bring forwards back to create extra defenders, we should send back forward to create extra attackers.

Unlike most people here, I am disappointed with the number of U21 players in the squad. Guys like Killian Clarke and Jason McLoughlin have two years of U21 football ahead of them and dont need to be involved in the senior set up yet. They should be allowed to progress with the U21s and college football, instead they will most likely be stuck in the gym over the winter, bulk up, lose any speed they have and spend most of the next few years picking up injury after injury. Too many of the current panel are there because they impress in the gym, not on the pitch.

We have some very talented footballers now, they should be allowed to continue to develop their football skills instead of being rushed into a senior intercounty team. Ray Cullivan is the prefect example of a guy who got too big too fast and McDermott already looks to have lost a yard of pace. For years we have seen a lot of talented youngsters failing to develop and being plagued with injuries since breaking into the senior panel and I can see the same happening again.

Lemlin

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The team named is nowhere near good enough to challenge Donegal, unfortunitely we havent anyone else. Looks like Terry is going to use his tactic from last years U21 team, giving Meehan a free role from wing back with Flanagan coming back to cover his man. I would love to see them call Donegals bluff, if they bring forwards back to create extra defenders, we should send back forward to create extra attackers.

Unlike most people here, I am disappointed with the number of U21 players in the squad. Guys like Killian Clarke and Jason McLoughlin have two years of U21 football ahead of them and dont need to be involved in the senior set up yet. They should be allowed to progress with the U21s and college football, instead they will most likely be stuck in the gym over the winter, bulk up, lose any speed they have and spend most of the next few years picking up injury after injury. Too many of the current panel are there because they impress in the gym, not on the pitch.

We have some very talented footballers now, they should be allowed to continue to develop their football skills instead of being rushed into a senior intercounty team. Ray Cullivan is the prefect example of a guy who got too big too fast and McDermott already looks to have lost a yard of pace. For years we have seen a lot of talented youngsters failing to develop and being plagued with injuries since breaking into the senior panel and I can see the same happening again.

Have to agree with you re the younger U21s Pete. I don't think McLoughlin, Clarke or even Jack Brady should be there, but I'm hoping Terry has just brought them in to be part of the panel and that they won't be going near the starting 15.

Terry has always advocated having a large panel because lads are better being their seeing and getting used to the setup than sitting at home, hence a panel of 35 each year for the U21s. It's worked for the U21s so hopefully it'll work for the seniors.

I think the biggest problem with injuries is rushing lads back, which happens at both club and county level. Look at poor Barry Reilly in the U21 final this year. Rushed back and lasted 5 minutes, then missed the All Ireland semi final. I'm just hoping McKiernan isn't being rushed back for Sunday. I'd prefer to see Ray Cullivan just stuck in.

That said, who's to say McKiernan is even back, the 15 starting on Sunday could be wildly different to what Terry has announced.

GERRYMAC65

I wouldnt mind the league performance this year,considering players been dropped/walking away etc its a miracle Cavan stayed in Div 3.Apart from Longford,Cavan werent far off the rest and had a couple of wins.I think Cavan have nothing to lose on Sunday,and should play an attacking (tear at them) game.:)

Lemlin

GERRYMAC65 wrote: »

I wouldnt mind the league performance this year,considering players been dropped/walking away etc its a miracle Cavan stayed in Div 3.Apart from Longford,Cavan werent far off the rest and had a couple of wins.I think Cavan have nothing to lose on Sunday,and should play an attacking (tear at them) game.:)

In fairness, if you were at the Offaly game you wouldn't be saying that. Offaly were the worst team I had seen in years and they still beat Cavan. Cavan really were that bad and there was no disguising it.

No manager could be blamed for the performance. They honestly couldn't, the players were that bad in the second half.

The game is being shown on BBC 2 at 7 this evening for anyone that is interested.

Tom Joad

Really hope the lads do themselves justice today - don't see how we can beat Donegal if we are being realistic about it - would love to be wrong but just can't see it happening. Think there will be a good few changes from the team named earlier in the week.

Will settle for a good performance to start getting a bit of pride back in the jersey - would also hope that we finish we 15 on the field and keep our discipline. Would also be nice to see a couple of the u-21's show that they can do it at this level.

Big problem with playing and being knocked out of the preliminary round is the long wait for the first round of the qualifiers and I wonder how many of the panel will be unavailable for the qualifiers.

Looking forward to the minor game and hope we win that one.

cavan4sam

not an unexpected result but with a bit of luck we might have made a better game of it ie. hitting the crossbar and dubious penalty
glad we played football today and i think when we play a football team we might just do a little bit better

GERRYMAC65

Not a bad performance today from Cavan,against an improving Donegal team.Cavan have a number of positives from this game,which im sure they will concentrate and build on,not least being an honest effort and pride in the jersey.

Lemlin

There seems to be negativity from some in the county re yesterday's performance but I'm happy enough with how it went. Listen, we were up against a Donegal team that had Rory Gallagher making his 100th appearance at midfield. In the Cavan team, you had an 18 year old, two 19 year olds and a 20 year old. Of the four young lads (Clarke, McLoughlin, Flanagan and Brady) I thought only Flanagan played poorly. Donegal are light years ahead of Cavan in terms of development. I'd love if Cavan had the experienced players to support these young lads but we don't. A new impetus is needed and it is going to take these lads time to learn the game but they need to be given it. Tony Davis said as much on the Sunday Game last night when he spoke about the difference he and his Cork teammates found between U21 and senior level.

Gearoid McKiernan clearly wasn't fit and should have been taken off in the second half. I really don't think he should have been rushed back. Thankfully he didn't pick up an injury. David Givney had a very good game I thought. Mossy Corr did well when he came on, as did Niall McDermott. Star of the show for me had to be Eugene Ketaing though. Here we have a forward that can win dirty ball and kick scores. He scored 5 points on an All-Star full back, only one of which was a free. I think he'll trouble any team, we just need to get the ball into him.

Here's a fifteen I'd be looking at for the qualifiers:

James Reilly, Killian Clarke, Podge O'Reilly, Damien Barkey, Jason McLoughlin, John McCutcheon, James McEnroe, Gearoid McKiernan, David Givney, Niall Smith, Mark McKeever, Niall McDermott, Eugene Keating, Jack Brady, Kevin Tierney,

Barkey and McEnroe are both injured at present but I think they are definitely worth their places. Barkey looked great in the league and McEnroe was one of our better players against Longford last year. We need to try and stick to a panel of 30 and make the odd change here and there now though. That's why Terry needs to be given his four years. If he falls out with different lads, let him fall out with them. We've had 7 managers in ten years (Mattie Kerrigan, Eamonn Coleman, Martin McElhennon, Donal Keoghan, Tommy Carr, Val Andrews and now Terry). That's beyond a joke. One needs to be given time and Terry has had success with the U21s so he needs to be given it.

martyeds

cavan4sam wrote: »

not an unexpected result but with a bit of luck we might have made a better game of it ie. hitting the crossbar and dubious penalty
glad we played football today and i think when we play a football team we might just do a little bit better

Care to explain?

premierstone

martyeds wrote: »

Care to explain?

Dont mind them marty, its just plain jealousy and bitterness from the fact that Donegal are streets ahead of Cavan, rather than focus on their own shortcomings they take snide swipes at others.

Tom Joad

Am not overly disappointed with the result yesterday - we have to be realistic and realise where we are at and at least there were some signs that Terry is putting together a decent team that has better days ahead.

Positives for me were performance by Keating (with very little ball it has to be said) Givney at midfield was impressive, Mark McKeever had a good game and was obviously told to sit behind the midfield, Podge gave a cracking display of how a captain should lead by example. Kilian Clarke, Jack Brady done enough to show they have what it takes at this level, Bud had a good game and was very unlucky not to get a goal early on.

Negatives was the turnout of Cavan supporters - lowest turn out for an Ulster Championship home game I can remember. We need to get behind the team not stay away!!

Disappointed that the lads after starting so well lost their way for 15 mins in the first half once a few things went against them. - It has to be drilled into the players to stick with it and believe in the system even when things are going against you- hopefully they will learn that.

Thought it was wrong to play McKiernan and was a gamble that could have gone badly wrong for the lad - I know he's a big player for us but he's young and shouldn't be risked like that if so obviously not fit - we nearly wrecked Dermot McCabe doing the same thing.

Thought we were incredibly niave in not spotting the short kick-out earlier - we were letting Donegal get to the half way line uncontested.

Playing Ronan Flanagan in the half forward didn't work - can see the logic behind it but it didn't work and should have been changed quicker. Also thought Bud should have been left on as he was doing ok.

But having said all that its a young team with a new manager and hopefully they will have taken the positives out of yesterday - it was always going to be a steep learning curve at this level and Donegal are a battle hardened strong team.

I hope Terry can keep the panel together for the qualifiers and have a decent crack at it.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

Dont mind them marty, its just plain jealousy and bitterness from the fact that Donegal are streets ahead of Cavan, rather than focus on their own shortcomings they take snide swipes at others.

"Them" is a plural word. Where exactly have you seen more than one poster make a "snide swipe"? I said in my own post that Donegal are streets ahead of Cavan and I said it well before the game.

So have other users bar one so don't come in here with your stirring spoon.

cavan4sam

martyeds wrote: »

Care to explain?

i'm sorry i just dont like it and i think its a very bad advert for football
it may be effective short term but when they meet an experienced team with a plan b they will be in real trouble , as we troubled them with the long ball yesterday
i'm not bitter or in envy as i'd prefer to play and lose every time than play in that system

premierstone

GERRYMAC65 wrote: »

Iv a feeling Donegal have a bit of an opinion of themselves which is a serious weakness.

cavan4sam wrote: »

as for donegal i think they are a 1 trick pony and wont feature this year and they will struggle if they are to beat us especially if murphy is missing

Lemlin wrote: »

"Them" is a plural word. Where exactly have you seen more than one poster make a "snide swipe"? I said in my own post that Donegal are streets ahead of Cavan and I said it well before the game.

So have other users bar one so don't come in here with your stirring spoon.

There are two such comments Lemlin, two is plural

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

There are two such comments Lemlin, two is plural

The above comments were made before the game. The comment the Donegal poster took exception to was made after the game and in reference to their footballing style.

Now go away with your spoon elsewhere. If you've nothing to add to the thread, I can't see why you're here.

Pete_Cavan

Lemlin wrote: »

Here's a fifteen I'd be looking at for the qualifiers:

James Reilly, Killian Clarke, Podge O'Reilly, Damien Barkey, Jason McLoughlin, John McCutcheon, James McEnroe, Gearoid McKiernan, David Givney, Niall Smith, Mark McKeever, Niall McDermott, Eugene Keating, Jack Brady, Kevin Tierney,

I would have Mossy centre back and move McCutcheon out to the wing in place of McLoughlin, not that McLoughlin did bad yesterday. Swap Brady and McDermott in the forwards, McDermott is better suited to being inside. I dont like the look of the forward line but there isnt much else, will be relying on Keating for most of the scores.

We are not going to achieve anything in the next 12 months so I wouldnt mind another year or two of spirited but ultimately disappointing results until the best of this years and last years U21 teams are ready to form the bones of our senior championship team. Guys like O'Meara, Barkey, two Moynaghs, Brady, Clarke, McLoughlin, Tierney, Barry Reilly, McKiernan and Mooney (and perhaps Packie Leddy, Paddy King and Buck McKiernan if they decide they want it) should form a decent intercounty team, with the experience coming from the likes of Podge, Keating, Givney and McCutcheon. We wont go far in the qualifiers this year and are unlikely to win an Ulster Championship game next year (unless we draw Fermanagh) but hopefully Terry is building towards 2014.

The big thing we should learn from Donegal is how players should be conditioned. The Donegal players were strong but lean, not bulky. They were agile, able to get around the pitch and could not be stopped because they moved at pace. In Cavan, players seem to be told they need to gain mass, regardless of how it effects their mobility. We have some very good young footballers and with the right conditioning will be able to compete with teams like Donegal in the future. Going back to my earlier post, I hope guys like Clarke and McLoughlin dont join the senior panel until afer the U21 championship next year (if at all), we have a habit of fast tracking players and ruining them.

celt262

McCutcheon has a broken collarbone i doubt you will be seen him in the qualifers.

keane2097

Lemlin wrote: »

The above comments were made before the game. The comment the Donegal poster took exception to was made after the game and in reference to their footballing style.

Now go away with your spoon elsewhere. If you've nothing to add to the thread, I can't see why you're here.

How much did you have to pay to own the thread? :rolleyes:

munchkin_utd

Tom Joad wrote: »

<snip>
Negatives was the turnout of Cavan supporters - lowest turn out for an Ulster Championship home game I can remember. We need to get behind the team not stay away!!
<snip>.

really?
there was 12,847 there on Sunday according to the examiner.
Last year against Donegal in Breffni there was 9,325 3,500 odd less than this year.
The year before against Fermanagh 9,677 again in Breffni
In 2009 Cavan played Antrim in Clones in the Ulster semi in front of 16,377 BUT Antrim is the second largest GAA county in terms of clubs after Cork (if my trivia is correct) so they would bring the odd supporter with them to see them reach their first final in 40+ years,

Lemlin

keane2097 wrote: »

How much did you have to pay to own the thread? :rolleyes:

Well if someone has nothing productive to add and their reason to post on the thread is trolling, I can't see why they should be here. Can you?

Lemlin

munchkin_utd wrote: »

really?
there was 12,847 there on Sunday according to the examiner.
Last year against Donegal in Breffni there was 9,325 3,500 odd less than this year.
The year before against Fermanagh 9,677 again in Breffni
In 2009 Cavan played Antrim in Clones in the Ulster semi in front of 16,377 BUT Antrim is the second largest GAA county in terms of clubs after Cork (if my trivia is correct) so they would bring the odd supporter with them to see them reach their first final in 40+ years,

13k from both counties though. Tom makes reference to "Cavan supporters" of which there appeared to be less than at last year's game.

I think Donegal's run last year has increased their number of supporters. Also, Donegal seemed to be expecting a better game than they got with Cavan's recent underage success and travelled in numbers.

I saw one couple near us leave at half-time because Donegal were six ahead and had the game won. A four or five hour round trip to watch 35 minutes of senior football

keane2097

Lemlin wrote: »

Well if someone has nothing productive to add and their reason to post on the thread is trolling, I can't see why they should be here. Can you?

And you're the grand arbiter of what constitutes a productive post are you?

Congratulations on being the most sanctimonious poster on the GAA forum, you're borderline intolerable most of the time and I'm not even involved in the argument.

premierstone

munchkin_utd wrote: »

BUT Antrim is the second largest GAA county in terms of clubs after Cork (if my trivia is correct) so they would bring the odd supporter with them to see them reach their first final in 40+ years,

Nope they have the joint third highest of affiliated clubs, behind Cork and Dublin and joint with Limerick, but the number of members in the clubs in those other and many other counties would be far far greater than Antrims.

Tom Joad

munchkin_utd wrote: »

really?
there was 12,847 there on Sunday according to the examiner.
Last year against Donegal in Breffni there was 9,325 3,500 odd less than this year.
The year before against Fermanagh 9,677 again in Breffni
In 2009 Cavan played Antrim in Clones in the Ulster semi in front of 16,377 BUT Antrim is the second largest GAA county in terms of clubs after Cork (if my trivia is correct) so they would bring the odd supporter with them to see them reach their first final in 40+ years,

Nice work on the stats! Not for a second disputing your figures but am genuinely surprised by them figures. Maybe it was the lack of atmosphere and the fact that to me it appeared that Cavan support was outnumbered. Or maybe it's the rose tinted glasses thinking that we always had a huge support.

celt262

There was as many Donegal supporters at the game as Cavan.

Lemlin

keane2097 wrote: »

And you're the grand arbiter of what constitutes a productive post are you?

Congratulations on being the most sanctimonious poster on the GAA forum, you're borderline intolerable most of the time and I'm not even involved in the argument.

Well, what do you think was the purpose of his post?

I've no problem with being sanctimonious on this board. I've posted on two topics in the past while. Cavan GAA and Seanie Johnston and, from reading the views of others, I know a damn sight more about both topics than others.

Now, have you any comments on Cavan GAA? This is a thread about Cavan GAA after all.

Lemlin

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I would have Mossy centre back and move McCutcheon out to the wing in place of McLoughlin, not that McLoughlin did bad yesterday. Swap Brady and McDermott in the forwards, McDermott is better suited to being inside. I dont like the look of the forward line but there isnt much else, will be relying on Keating for most of the scores.

We are not going to achieve anything in the next 12 months so I wouldnt mind another year or two of spirited but ultimately disappointing results until the best of this years and last years U21 teams are ready to form the bones of our senior championship team. Guys like O'Meara, Barkey, two Moynaghs, Brady, Clarke, McLoughlin, Tierney, Barry Reilly, McKiernan and Mooney (and perhaps Packie Leddy, Paddy King and Buck McKiernan if they decide they want it) should form a decent intercounty team, with the experience coming from the likes of Podge, Keating, Givney and McCutcheon. We wont go far in the qualifiers this year and are unlikely to win an Ulster Championship game next year (unless we draw Fermanagh) but hopefully Terry is building towards 2014.

The big thing we should learn from Donegal is how players should be conditioned. The Donegal players were strong but lean, not bulky. They were agile, able to get around the pitch and could not be stopped because they moved at pace. In Cavan, players seem to be told they need to gain mass, regardless of how it effects their mobility. We have some very good young footballers and with the right conditioning will be able to compete with teams like Donegal in the future. Going back to my earlier post, I hope guys like Clarke and McLoughlin dont join the senior panel until afer the U21 championship next year (if at all), we have a habit of fast tracking players and ruining them.

I actually think a forward line of Tierney, Keating and Brady/McDermott is a very good forward line and the ability is there for it to be a top forward line. I always find myself thinking of one line in reference to Cavan teams at the minute and it's "in a couple of years". There's no doubting there's some talent there but hopefully it comes to fruition.

Just wondering, does anyone know is Oisin Minagh from Redhills injured or where is he? I had heard Redhills were carrying alot of injuries this year but not sure if he is one. I'd just seen that he's dropped off the county panel completely.

Swarm_Attack

I would agree with other posters in that I was relatively pleased with how the Donegal game went. Obviously its not nice to lose but i felt there were far more encouraging signs form the game. We got an honest performance from a young team who got punished for some mistakes but you just have to hope they learn.

I think Terry has identified that he can the spine of what could be potentially a very good team there. The likes of Keating, Givney, McKiernan etc all have the guts of ten years football in them if they want it and it is clear that Podge has developed into a leader of the group as has McKeever.

Along with the team that played at the weekend there are several more I want to see back involved but I know that they are injured at present. They are O'Meara, Barkey, McEnroe, McCutcheon, Minnagh, Barry Reilly, Tighe, and Watters. You add in those eight to what played at the weekend and I think we have a very strong squad in two years who are all around 23 or 24.

The fact that 7 of that injured list played in an u21 final since Terry comes in slightly concerns me. Is it just a coincidence or has juggling college, club and county u21 and senior teams for three or 4 years of their lives taken its toll on their bodies. I think, although I am not fully sure, that three of them have had groin operations

richiej_uk

Well he was never approached by the manager since he was dropped. Even ppl who were prepared to act as go between between himself and Val were knocked back. The new management didn't approach him either as he wasn't playing club football in the county .seems they only want players playing local club football. Anyway Terry you will be able to see for yourself on TV this summer if Seanie is any good!!!! So as we will all see, Cavans loss is kildares gain. Speaking with mcgeeney it's seems he has been training with Kildare 5/6 nites a week plus travelling to work in Cavan every day. Mcgeeney reckons he could not have asked more from Seanie!

richiej_uk

Donegal were there for the taking last Sunday. Its interesting that 3 of Cavans best performer , Keating, McKeever, and Corr when he came on were not part of Hylands u21 brigade. Maybe we are discarding lads that are 26/27 too soon?
Hyland has to take the blinkers off as regard the u21s he managed,
Why did Martin Dunne not make the panel? Didnt he score 1-5 for the gaels against Redhills so he must have been fit.
There is no way Any management should get 5 years. 2 at max then reviewed.
Everybody convienently forgets the mess thar was made of the 2010 ulster u21 final.
What about the hammering against Galway where we were tactically completely out of our dept.
We must have tried every u21 at senior level,,, we even trying last years minors now
we need a blend of youth and experience. Hyland has to get the mix right. U21S ALONE will win NOTHING AT SENIOR LEVEL.
Hyland is not the man to lead us forward at senior level. His contribution at senior level proves that this past 7 years

Swarm_Attack

richiej_uk wrote: »

Donegal were there for the taking last Sunday. Its interesting that 3 of Cavans best performer , Keating, McKeever, and Corr when he came on were not part of Hylands u21 brigade. Maybe we are discarding lads that are 26/27 too soon?
Hyland has to take the blinkers off as regard the u21s he managed,
Why did Martin Dunne not make the panel? Didnt he score 1-5 for the gaels against Redhills so he must have been fit.
There is no way Any management should get 5 years. 2 at max then reviewed.
Everybody convienently forgets the mess thar was made of the 2010 ulster u21 final.
What about the hammering against Galway where we were tactically completely out of our dept.
We must have tried every u21 at senior level,,, we even trying last years minors now
we need a blend of youth and experience. Hyland has to get the mix right. U21S ALONE will win NOTHING AT SENIOR LEVEL.
Hyland is not the man to lead us forward at senior level. His contribution at senior level proves that this past 7 years

Richie you will find Keating was one of Hyland's u21 brigade.

I am truly amazed at how much you seem against Hyland. What he did with the Cavan u21's last year would be like the Costa Rica manager getting the team to a World Cup final against Brazil and then just because they lost that one game fans think he is out of his depth. Would you wise up mate.

In three years, Hyland got Cavan u21's to three Ulster finals delivered two Ulster titles and gave us a great day out in Croke Park where we were beaten by a brilliant Galway team. Do I agree with every decision Hyland has made over the years? Certainly not, but I can't think of a better man I want looking after the Cavan senior team right now. Over the course of three years with the u21's he delivered a success rate of 75% (that's nine wins from twelve games) yet you make out as if we have some fool running our team. Do you remember the shambles we look at for years at u21 level in particular? No Cavan manager in recent times has a record near that.

You are right when you say u21s alone wont win anything at senior level. However, most Cavan fans have realised we need rebuilding and that immediate senior success is out of our reach no matter what team we put out right now. So do we keep chopping and changing in the hope that we will miraculously stumble upon a magic formula to deliver success or do we seek stability and try to build a team gradually. I know which option I prefer and I know which option any man with intelligence would select. Let me give you a hint, the first option we have tried repeatedly for the guts of the last decade and went backwards.

You say Hyland has been there 7 years and contributed nothing. I don't know the ins and outs of it but I can't think of a more educated and experienced man then to try take on the job. He has clearly developed as a manager over that period as his record with not only Cavan u21's but Lavey also suggests.

Do you think Mourinho was always a world beater manager? No, he learned his trade and served under many different managers. He even was a translator to Bobby Robson at Barcelona. Hyland doesn't know all the answers but who does? You find out answers to problems through experience and picking up knowledge.

I have talked longer than I planned but I repeat what I said earlier. I can't think of one single person I would prefer to be managing Cavan right now.

Just out of interest, who would you prefer?

celt262

He would probably want Sean Johnston as player manager.

augustus gloop

richiej_uk wrote: »

Donegal were there for the taking last Sunday. Its interesting that 3 of Cavans best performer , Keating, McKeever, and Corr when he came on were not part of Hylands u21 brigade. Maybe we are discarding lads that are 26/27 too soon?
Hyland has to take the blinkers off as regard the u21s he managed,
Why did Martin Dunne not make the panel? Didnt he score 1-5 for the gaels against Redhills so he must have been fit.
There is no way Any management should get 5 years. 2 at max then reviewed.
Everybody convienently forgets the mess thar was made of the 2010 ulster u21 final.
What about the hammering against Galway where we were tactically completely out of our dept.
We must have tried every u21 at senior level,,, we even trying last years minors now
we need a blend of youth and experience. Hyland has to get the mix right. U21S ALONE will win NOTHING AT SENIOR LEVEL.
Hyland is not the man to lead us forward at senior level. His contribution at senior level proves that this past 7 years

wonderful richie has found boards to spam now along with hoganstand.... is nowhere safe;)

Lemlin

Cavan Juniors beat Wexford Juniors in the Leinster Championship last night. The team was:

James Farrelly (Kingscourt)
Dara Tighe (Killeshandra)
Rory Dunne (Redhills)
Fergal Slowey ( Ballyhaise)
Enda O'Connell (Castlerahan)
Joshua Hayes (Cootehill)
Killian Brady (Mullahoran)
Declan McKiernan (Killeshandra)
Sean Gaffney (Kill 1-0)
Chris Conroy (Lavey 1-0)
Martin Reilly (Killygarry (0-2)
Keith Fannin (Drumgoon)
Oisin O'Connell (Cataslerahan 0-01)
Barry McKiernan (Crosserlough 0-02)
Martin Dunne (Cavan Gaels 1-05)

Subs:
Darren Tiernan (Kill 0-1) for O'O'Connell, Michael Reilly (Sherock) for Martin Reilly, Niall McKiernan (Lacken) for Sean Gaffney, James Morris (Arva) for D. Tighe, Brendan Murray (Killygarry 1-0) for B. McKiernan.

Final score: 4-11 to 1-12.

Good win and great to see some of the players to gain experience there - Rory Dunne, Josha Hayes, Martin Reilly and Martin Dunne could all add to the senior panel this year. Apparently Rory Dunne played very well at full-back and was marking the one and only Mattie Forde. Martin Dunne scored 1-5 and, in reference to Richiej saying above that he should be in the senior panel, he obviously is being considered by Terry. However, I have to say that, having watched the league games, he needs to make improvements to his game. In both the Sligo and Offaly league games, I watched some infuriating shooting from him. He could be standing at the corner flag and he'd shoot rather than pass. After the Offaly game, I happily said I wouldn't see him in a blue shirt again. I wouldn't read too much into him scoring 1-5 against Redhills in a league game either. Oisin O'Connell and Chris Conroy were scoring that or more for their teams in Championship games last year and both lads weren't played in the league like Dunne was.

It's pleasing to see though that Terry is making good use of the Junior championship. I thought in previous years it was somewhat wasted by playing lads like Jason Reilly who had opted out of senior. After all, its about testing lads who could potentially make your senior team and that's what Terry seems to be doing.

In response to Richie's posts:

Number 1 re Johnston: Of course McGeeney is going to say that. It could well be true but Johnston's attitude for Cavan and his attitude for Kildare will be entirely two different things.

Number 2 re Donegal there for the taking: Please don't be ludicrous. We're talking about a team here that beat Kildare, who are being lauded as 4th favourites for the Championship on another thread, and won Ulster last year, before reaching an All-Ireland semi final. This year they have cemented their place in Division 1 while we were hanging on by the skin of our teeth in Division 3. That Donegal team is light years ahead of Cavan in terms of development. They never even had to push into second gear against Cavan. I've addressed your point re Martin Dunne above and I doubt you see too many games with your location being the UK to be honest so I doubt you are too aware of how he performed in the League matches where he was tried out. The Ulster U21 final - Donegal were a better team. The All-Ireland U21 final - Galway were a better team. Hyland has delivered two U21 Ulster titles to end a famine stretching back years. He deserves his chance at the big job and he needs time. We've had 7 managers in 9 years. Whatever you say about each, it can't all be the managers. One needs to be given time to attempt to build something. Changing every two years isn't working. Keating is actually one of his U21 brigade so you're incorrect there. As for players over 23/24, most have been tried at this stage. We've tried something like 100 players at senior level since '01. I don't think there's too many in the county that are capable of playing senior football that can say they haven't been tested. Who would you bring in that isn't there for example?

One thing that is annoying me is the comments of the GAA community in relation to the Johnston transfer. Listening to On the Ball last Thursday evening, journalist Martin Brehony commented that he couldn't see why Cavan were letting Johnston go and that they could have done with him last Sunday against Donegal. Kevin Cassidy also Tweeted the same. Did these lads miss the game last year where Johnston played against Donegal and we had a worse performance than this year? It's annoying to hear the team run down like that. We're no world beaters but I think comments like that are underhand.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

One thing that is annoying me is the comments of the GAA community in relation to the Johnston transfer. Listening to On the Ball last Thursday evening, journalist Martin Brehony commented that he couldn't see why Cavan were letting Johnston go and that they could have done with him last Sunday against Donegal. Kevin Cassidy also Tweeted the same. Did these lads miss the game last year where Johnston played against Donegal and we had a worse performance than this year? It's annoying to hear the team run down like that. We're no world beaters but I think comments like that are underhand.

Stating that one of the top forwards in the country would improve a team, who as you have said yourself barely hung on to Division 3 status and are light years behind Donegal is hardly being underhand, its a logical and valid point, one that has been made here and in the Johnson thread many many times.

augustus gloop

premierstone wrote: »

Stating that one of the top forwards in the country would improve a team, who as you have said yourself barely hung on to Division 3 status and are light years behind Donegal is hardly being underhand, its a logical and valid point, one that has been made here and in the Johnson thread many many times.

from the few lads i know on the panel, the general feeling is alot better without him, and it has knitted the group together, removing the aggro he seemed to cause.

premierstone

augustus gloop wrote: »

from the few lads i know on the panel, the general feeling is alot better without him, and it has knitted the group together, removing the aggro he seemed to cause.

Quite possible, but my point really was how it can be viewed as underhand by Breheny and Cassidy to state Cavan would be improved by having him in their team, they were looking at it from an ability perspective.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

Stating that one of the top forwards in the country would improve a team, who as you have said yourself barely hung on to Division 3 status and are light years behind Donegal is hardly being underhand, its a logical and valid point, one that has been made here and in the Johnson thread many many times.

I wouldn't see it as logical or valid to be honest given Cavan's performance last year when they played Donegal. Johnston played, scored one free and Cavan lost 2-14 to 1-8, by 9 points.

This year Johnston didn't play and Cavan scored more, conceded less and lost by six points, 1-16 to 1-10.

So, to suggest that Cavan could have done with Johnston against Donegal is underhand IMO. The stats and performance show they were better off without him.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

I wouldn't see it as logical or valid to be honest given Cavan's performance last year when they played Donegal. Johnston played, scored one free and Cavan lost 2-14 to 1-8, by 9 points.

This year Johnston didn't play and Cavan scored more, conceded less and lost by six points, 1-16 to 1-10.

So, to suggest that Cavan could have done with Johnston against Donegal is underhand IMO. The stats and performance show they were better off without him.

Yes comparing two games 12 months apart with different managers and both teams having differnt line-ups is an excellent way of measuring a teams performance. Do you think Cavan are within 6 points of Donegal btw??

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

Yes comparing two games 12 months apart with different managers and both teams having differnt line-ups is an excellent way of measuring a teams performance. Do you think Cavan are within 6 points of Donegal btw??

Donegal have the same manager. Hyland was co-manager of Cavan last year. Have a look at the Donegal starting 15 this year compared to last. They are almost identical.

7 of Cavan's starting 15 this year started both games. Mark McKeever came on as a sub last year but started this year. Dane O'Dowd started last year but came on as a sub this year. Tomas Corr came on as a sub in both games. It's also worth noting that Padraig O'Reilly and Ronan Flanagan who started this year would have started last year but for injury. John McCutcheon who started last year would have started this year but for an injury.

Yes, the line-ups were different but not hugely different.

So, if its unfair for me to use the two games as a measure of performance, how is it fair for Brehony and Cassidy to assume that Johnston would have made a different this year when he couldn't last year?

That's what I feel is underhand about their comments.

I've said it to you on a number of occasions now, I fail to see why you jump into topics when you haven't read the previous posts. I've said a number of times that Donegal are light years ahead of Cavan. Donegal, for me, are the fourth best team in the country. You have the top trio of Dublin, Cork and Kerry, then you have Donegal, and then you have Mayo, Tyrone, Derry and Kildare.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

Donegal have the same manager. Hyland was co-manager of Cavan last year. Have a look at the Donegal starting 15 this year compared to last. They are almost identical.

7 of Cavan's starting 15 this year started both games. Mark McKeever came on as a sub last year but started this year. Dane O'Dowd started last year but came on as a sub this year. Tomas Corr came on as a sub in both games. It's also worth noting that Padraig O'Reilly and Ronan Flanagan who started this year would have started last year but for injury. John McCutcheon who started last year would have started this year but for an injury.

Yes, the line-ups were different but not hugely different.

So, if its unfair for me to use the two games as a measure of performance, how is it fair for Brehony and Cassidy to assume that Johnston would have made a different this year when he couldn't last year?

That's what I feel is underhand about their comments.

I've said it to you on a number of occasions now, I fail to see why you jump into topics when you haven't read the previous posts. I've said a number of times that Donegal are light years ahead of Cavan. Donegal, for me, are the fourth best team in the country. You have the top trio of Dublin, Cork and Kerry, then you have Donegal, and then you have Mayo, Tyrone, Derry and Kildare.

So following your logic Tipperary are twice as good a football team without Barry Grogan based on our respective results against Kerry??

See me and any sane person can see that last Sunday doesnt actually reflect the real gap between the two teams and Kerry had an off day.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

So following your logic Tipperary are twice as good a football team without Barry Grogan based on our respective results against Kerry??

See me and any sane person can see that last Sunday doesnt actually reflect the real gap between the two teams and Kerry had an off day.

I thought putting it in bold would simplify my point for you but I'll re-iterate it:

How is it fair for Brehony and Cassidy to assume that Johnston would have made a difference this year when he couldn't last year?

I'm not commenting on anything to do with Tipperary football or Barry Grogan. I don't know anything about Tipperary football so I wouldn't comment on it. I can only wish others would follow the same train of thought.

Was Barry Grogan poor against Kerry last year despite being lauded as Tipperary's star forward? Have Martin Brehony and Kevin Cassidy said that Tipperary could have done with Barry Grogan against Kerry, despite the fact that he played last year and the result against Kerry was worse? That's my logic.

I'm not saying anything about anyone being twice as good or otherwise. That's your twisting of the point. What I am saying is that a player played against Donegal last year and had no impact on the proceedings. Now, a year later, Cavan play Donegal again and you have individuals saying that Cavan "could have done with Johnston against Donegal". How exactly? He made no difference last year so why would he make any this year? As I've stated, Cavan had a better performance this year without the player. That's a fact. As I said, and I'll repeat, it all boils down to:

How is it fair for Brehony and Cassidy to assume that Johnston would have made a difference this year when he couldn't last year?

I don't get the point re the sane person either. Have you seen the Cavan Donegal games? Any sane person can see Donegal didn't even move out of first gear but then they didn't last year either.

rebel girl 15

premierstone wrote: »

So following your logic Tipperary are twice as good a football team without Barry Grogan based on our respective results against Kerry??

See me and any sane person can see that last Sunday doesnt actually reflect the real gap between the two teams and Kerry had an off day.

Premierstone - this is the Cavan GAA thread, not about Munster football at all - stop taking the thread off topic and insulting other posters