The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Lemlin · 20-04-2014 10:01pm

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

In the McHugh incident in the first half; the Cavan player can be clearly seen with a hold of the Dublin's players shirt and he dragged McHugh to the ground.

Watch the replay. McHugh is getting ready to walk off. He is expecting a black card. He even can't believe it when he gets a yellow.

Moynagh only grabs McHugh's jersey after he has already been fouled cynically.

What about Costelloe two minutes into the second half? He goes down on a Cavan player with two knees for no reason at all. Definite black card.

downthemiddle · 20-04-2014 11:48pm

Lemlin wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1fM3Jj34-4E&list=PL6558A91C79FEE0C5

Free is around 1.50. Explain to me where you see this "dragging a player back running through"?

Moynagh is only using one hand at any stage. He never uses two hands to drag at the Dublin player.

Excuse my ignorance but what relevance does "only using one hand" have to do with whether or not it is a foul.

Lemlin · 21-04-2014 2:14am

downthemiddle wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but what relevance does "only using one hand" have to do with whether or not it is a foul.

It's fairly hard to drag or pull someone with only one flailing arm IMO.

downthemiddle · 21-04-2014 5:05pm

Lemlin wrote: »

It's fairly hard to drag or pull someone with only one flailing arm IMO.

So you don't think it's possible to foul someone using one arm?

Lemlin · 21-04-2014 7:45pm

downthemiddle wrote: »

So you don't think it's possible to foul someone using one arm?

Where did I say that? A punch only requires one arm sure.

People have suggested that Moynagh pulled at the Dublin player or dragged him. I don't see how he can do that with a flailing block with one arm.

Lemlin · 21-04-2014 7:48pm

Confirmation of first championship game:

@CavanCoBoardGaa: Confirmed tonight that Cavan V Armagh USFC will throw in at 4pm on 8th of June. It will not be televised. #cavan #thefutureisblue

munchkin_utd · 21-04-2014 8:30pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Confirmation of first championship game:

@CavanCoBoardGaa: Confirmed tonight that Cavan V Armagh USFC will throw in at 4pm on 8th of June. It will not be televised. #cavan #thefutureisblue

Same slot as Dublins first game so not too unsurprising.
http://www.leinstergaa.ie/leinster-gaa-championship-fixtures-2012/leinster-gaa-senior-football-championship-2012.256.html
Just a pity that bbc couldn't just go ahead and show it. Maybe it'll get a delayed showing like happened a few times last year?

Lemlin · 21-04-2014 8:32pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Same slot as Dublins first game so not too unsurprising.
http://www.leinstergaa.ie/leinster-gaa-championship-fixtures-2012/leinster-gaa-senior-football-championship-2012.256.html
Just a pity that bbc couldn't just go ahead and show it. Maybe it'll get a delayed showing like happened a few times last year?

Yeah, would be great if it got a delayed showing.

I wonder will Hyland play Argue and Clarke next week in the Division 3 final. They both featured in the league so I'd suspect that he may.

Gary Neville · 21-04-2014 8:47pm

Tough luck Cavan. It happens so often that the big counties get the breaks agains the small counties. How many times do Kerry get the big calls ?

I haven't seen the game but it's clear that Cavan Management and Supporters feel very aggrieved.

We (Cork) were screwed to the ropes in the first game by the worst ref and set of umpires that I've ever seen. Roscommon got 8 scorable frees (missed 1) we got 4 and Dublin and Cavan scored 0-2 from frees. In addition to that Roscommon were awarded a pt that was a yard wide and a 45 that was clearly wide (they scored it) Ros were gifted 4 score from frees that were never in a million years frees.
There was numerous other terrible decisions including 2 of the most blatant black cards you will ever see - neither given - both rugby tackles late on. Cork management and supporters were livid.

It's crazy appointing refs like that chap Derek O Mahony (Tipp) and Anthony Nolan (Wicklow) for 2 national semis - these are inexperienced lads who were way out of their depth. It's more frustrating when you have David Gough (Meath) and Eddie Kinsella (Laois) as linesmen and standby ref in the 2 games. These lads are competent experienced refs who will get most of the big calls right.

Cavan have put huge effort into U21 and have won 4 Titles in the hardest, by far, Province and deserve fair treatment. It's a disgrace that the GAA will continue to appoint refs to give them experience with experienced competent guys looking on from the sideline.

But it's not going to change - I don't condone the small minority who appear to have over-reacted but perhaps the GAA might realise that if you mistreat and frustrate Supporters by this level of incompetence - then things can get out of hand. The solution is simple.

Roscommon and Dublin will take a huge crowd to the final - at least 10,000 more than Cork v Cavan - that's and extra €200,000 in the GAA's coffers - I'm not suggesting corruption but the GAA top brass will be delighted with the finalists. Messrs Nolan and O Mahony will be seen as having got the right results.

nice_guy80 · 21-04-2014 8:56pm

Gary Neville wrote: »

Tough luck Cavan. It happens so often that the big counties get the breaks agains the small counties. How many times do Kerry get the big calls ?

I haven't seen the game but it's clear that Cavan Management and Supporters feel very aggrieved.

We (Cork) were screwed to the ropes in the first game by the worst ref and set of umpires that I've ever seen. Roscommon got 8 scorable frees (missed 1) we got 4 and Dublin and Cavan scored 0-2 from frees. In addition to that Roscommon were awarded a pt that was a yard wide and a 45 that was clearly wide (they scored it) Ros were gifted 4 score from frees that were never in a million years frees.
There was numerous other terrible decisions including 2 of the most blatant black cards you will ever see - neither given - both rugby tackles late on. Cork management and supporters were livid.

It's crazy appointing refs like that chap Derek O Mahony (Tipp) and Anthony Nolan (Wicklow) for 2 national semis - these are inexperienced lads who were way out of their depth. It's more frustrating when you have David Gough (Meath) and Eddie Kinsella (Laois) as linesmen and standby ref in the 2 games. These lads are competent experienced refs who will get most of the big calls right.

Cavan have put huge effort into U21 and have won 4 Titles in the hardest, by far, Province and deserve fair treatment. It's a disgrace that the GAA will continue to appoint refs to give them experience with experienced competent guys looking on from the sideline.

But it's not going to change - I don't condone the small minority who appear to have over-reacted but perhaps the GAA might realise that if you mistreat and frustrate Supporters by this level of incompetence - then things can get out of hand. The solution is simple.

Roscommon and Dublin will take a huge crowd to the final - at least 10,000 more than Cork v Cavan - that's and extra €200,000 in the GAA's coffers - I'm not suggesting corruption but the GAA top brass will be delighted with the finalists. Messrs Nolan and O Mahony will be seen as having got the right results.

still bleating on about this.
lads, get over it.

we've been screwed in the past too.

funny thing is, Ros v Cavan would have had a huge crowd. The Dubs won't travel. They don't rate this team as highly as 2012 and it doesn't have the same superstars

Lemlin · 21-04-2014 9:13pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

still bleating on about this.
lads, get over it.

we've been screwed in the past too.

funny thing is, Ros v Cavan would have had a huge crowd. The Dubs won't travel. They don't rate this team as highly as 2012 and it doesn't have the same superstars

Agreed, Roscommon and Cavsn were by far the best supported counties in Portlaoise.

Cavan brought a huge crowd to the 2011 U21 final.

Dies anyone know if there's any truth that 12 of the Cavan starting 15 are underage next year? Seems like a very high number.

The three moving on would be Moynagh, Clarke and Dillon. I know Gerry Smith and Argue are definitely underage but don't know about any of the others.

Hammar · 21-04-2014 9:34pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Agreed, Roscommon and Cavsn were by far the best supported counties in Portlaoise.

Cavan brought a huge crowd to the 2011 U21 final.

Dies anyone know if there's any truth that 12 of the Cavan starting 15 are underage next year? Seems like a very high number.

The three moving on would be Moynagh, Clarke and Dillon. I know Gerry Smith and Argue are definitely underage but don't know about any of the others.

I think its 9 of the starting 15, underage next year.
Farrelly,Clarke,Moynagh, Dillon,McVeety and Paul Graham are all overage.

Of the subs Greg McGovern is underage for the next two years.
Conor Madden is underage next year also, he will be a huge addition if fit.

Lemlin · 21-04-2014 9:42pm

Hammar wrote: »

I think its 9 of the starting 15, underage next year.
Farrelly,Clarke,Moynagh, Dillon,McVeety and Paul Graham are all overage.

Of the subs Greg McGovern is underage for the next two years.
Conor Madden is underage next year also, he will be a huge addition if fit.

Hayes looks like he'll be a decent player too.

I was impressed by Farrelly. His kick outs were better than Gilly's IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to see him replace Gilly before the Summer.

Hammar · 21-04-2014 9:47pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Hayes looks like he'll be a decent player too.

I was impressed by Farrelly. His kick outs were better than Gilly's IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to see him replace Gilly before the Summer.

Hayes is going to be very good alright. Our under 21's should have better forwards next year if you add Conor Madden and potentially,Ben Kiernan, Liam Galligan and Ryan Connolly to the mix.

I agree with you on James Farrelly,very impressive, we have three good goalkeepers on the panel, O' Mara is probably the best shot-stopper of the trio.

Lemlin · 21-04-2014 11:04pm

Hammar wrote: »

Hayes is going to be very good alright. Our under 21's should have better forwards next year if you add Conor Madden and potentially,Ben Kiernan, Liam Galligan and Ryan Connolly to the mix.

I agree with you on James Farrelly,very impressive, we have three good goalkeepers on the panel, O' Mara is probably the best shot-stopper of the trio.

O'Mara looked very dodgy under the high ball in Croke Park last year. Gilly is a better 'keeper than him but his kick outs have been poor at times.

For me, Farrelly looks the best of the three. He made a couple of good saves in different games in the U21 championship.

freethearmy · 22-04-2014 11:21pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Confirmation of first championship game:

@CavanCoBoardGaa: Confirmed tonight that Cavan V Armagh USFC will throw in at 4pm on 8th of June. It will not be televised. #cavan #thefutureisblue

on skysports i think

manofwisdom · 22-04-2014 11:58pm

Gary Neville wrote: »

Cork management and supporters were livid.

Well you and thinkstoomuch were livid anyway probably influenced by Aodan Macgearailt with his poor understanding of the rules.

The best team won the first semi final while IMO Cavan for the way they played and workrate given throughout the game deserved extra time at least in their semi final. To quote yourself.

Gary Neville wrote: »

It's time to move on

Lemlin · 23-04-2014 10:17am

Division 3 final this weekend.

I've heard no news of new injuries from the Cavan camp. A good few, Keating, Givney, Mossy Corr for example, had picked up niggles throughout the league campaign but most are back now. I posted on the this thread a few weeks back that this is how I'd expect us to line out:

Gilsenan
Joshua Hayes, Rory Dunne, Killian Brady
James McEnroe, Alan Clarke, Fergal Flanagan
Gearoid McKiernan, Damien O'Reilly
Niall McDermott, Martin Reilly, Cian Mackey,
Eugene Keating, Martin Dunne, David Givney

The U21s are now available so Killian Clarke and Michael Argue may also slot in. Hyland though may give them a rest after the U21 campaign and the low of last weekend. Jack Brady is working his way back from injury and came on against Limerick in the final game so he'll get a run second half I'd imagine.

It's tremendous to think that I'm posting a 15 man line-up to start with players like Clarke, Argue, McLoughlin, Corr, Tierney, Smith and Brady waiting in reserve. It's great to get another run out in Croke Park. One trip in nearly twenty years and now we've had 3 in less than 12 months. We were very nervous, particularly against London last year, so it's good to give the lads a chance to get used to headquarters. We'd have to hope to be back here in the Summer.

I'd expect whatever lads don't play this weekend to play in the challenge game against Galway on Saturday week in Killygarry.

munchkin_utd · 23-04-2014 12:19pm

Lemlin wrote: »

<snip> It's great to get another run out in Croke Park. One trip in nearly twenty years and now we've had 3 in less than 12 months. We were very nervous, particularly against London last year, so it's good to give the lads a chance to get used to headquarters. We'd have to hope to be back here in the Summer. <snip>.

there was a great book called A Season of Sundays, which was a photographic review of the main moments of 2013, with one of the carefully chosen pictures simply being the Cavan team entering the tunnel on the way to the dressing rooms the day of the London match.

Many (the likes of Kildare and Dublin and leinster counties in general) wouldnt get the significance of that photo - but it was a well chosen picture seeing as it was indeed 16 years since Cavan steped foot in HQ in any competition.
Great to get back next weekend again!

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/776845/

23-04-2014 12:22pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Many (the likes of Kildare and Dublin and leinster counties in general) wouldnt get the significance of that photo - but it was a well chosen picture seeing as it was indeed 16 years since Cavan steped foot in HQ in any competition.

Not quite, we were there in 2007 in the Division 2 semi-final against Roscommon

Lemlin · 23-04-2014 12:25pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

there was a great book called A Season of Sundays, which was a photographic review of the main moments of 2013, with one of the carefully chosen pictures simply being the Cavan team entering the tunnel on the way to the dressing rooms the day of the London match.

Many (the likes of Kildare and Dublin and leinster counties in general) wouldnt get the significance of that photo - but it was a well chosen picture seeing as it was indeed 16 years since Cavan steped foot in HQ in any competition.
Great to get back next weekend again!

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/776845/

I hate to be a nitpicker but we did actually play there in 2007 in the league semi final against Roscommon. That said, that still made us the last county in Ireland to play at the redeveloped Croker at any level I believe.

Perhaps you also meant 16 years since championship.

I found headquarters did get to our players. Like you'd get lads from Meath, Kildare and Dublin saying that playing at Croke Park regularly isn't an advantage but it clearly is when you saw the overawed reaction of our lads that day.

munchkin_utd · 23-04-2014 12:30pm

28064212 wrote: »

Not quite, we were there in 2007 in the Division 2 semi-final against Roscommon

fair enough, that fixture passed me by (the league was a wishy washy div 2a and div 2b affair then), so the London game was the first since 1997 for a championship game.

Sportsfile have pictures of that day too BTW
http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/D0704137/

premierstone · 23-04-2014 12:56pm

Lemlin wrote: »

Delighted to hear some actually admit it. We've the Dublin lads trying to tell us oh he wasn't hard on Cavan but this 50/50 decision went Dublin's way and that 50/50 decision went Dublin's way. There were five key issues the ref got wrong for me that had a huge bearing in the game:

1. The Dillon black card. I don't think it was a black card and if it was McHugh and Costelloe both should have been gone from the Dublin side.
2. McHugh scored the equalising point. He should have been off the pitch for a black card.
3. Costelloe scored the winning point. He should have been off the pitch for a black card.
4. The free should not have been a free. Moynagh doesn't even use two hands at once and he certainly doesn't pull or grab at the Dublin forward. The Dublin forward rides his tackle and gets his shot away.
5. Two minutes added and 1 minute of it was spent with the Dublin player on the ground. Cavan should have been allowed to attack.

Your been a little disingenious there now Lemlin, surely you realise than points 1,2 and 3 are actually all the same - so to claim he got 5 seperate instances wrong is a blatant mistruth.

Point 4 is as you say yourself a 50/50 call - so by its very nature you will be on the wrong end roughly half the time.

Injury time is a big issue within the GAA, one thankfully that is being addressed.

celt262 wrote: »

That's two years in a row that cavan have been shafted at this level. That was no free near the end and why did he not add the time for the injury to the Dublin player in injury time

The little fishes get screwed again while Dublin with there big sponsorship can sail on and get AIG more exposure. There was more articles about these all black jerseys in the build up to the game than the game itself.

That referee will go far you will see him get an all ireland final the GAA love the likes of him who will help the big teams win.

The Cavan manager came out with this rubbish aswell and tbh its patethic.

If you really believe that then can you tell me why it appears Roscommon benefited from some very fortunate refereeing in the opening game, are Roscommon now considered a bigger GAA county than Cork??

Lemlin · 23-04-2014 1:18pm

premierstone wrote: »

Your been a little disingenious there now Lemlin, surely you realise than points 1,2 and 3 are actually all the same - so to claim he got 5 seperate instances wrong is a blatant mistruth.

Point 4 is as you say yourself a 50/50 call - so by its very nature you will be on the wrong end roughly half the time.

Injury time is a big issue within the GAA, one thankfully that is being addressed.

The Cavan manager came out with this rubbish aswell and tbh its patethic.

If you really believe that then can you tell me why it appears Roscommon benefited from some very fortunate refereeing in the opening game, are Roscommon now considered a bigger GAA county than Cork??

How are points 1,2 and 3 the same. They are 3 different instances and occasions where a decision went Dublin's way.

1. Dillon gets a black card. He is Cavan's best forward. That suits Dublin so decision goes their way.
2. McHugh, for a similar offence to Dillon, does not get a black card. Second instance of a 50/50 decision going Dublin's way. Watch the replay. McHugh is getting ready to walk off and can't believe it himself when gets a yellow and not a black card. It's clear from the TG4 footage.
3. Costelloe goes down on a Cavan player after a free has been awarded with two knees. Definite black card. It's not even a 50/50. It's a blatant black card that should have been given.

How are those all the one thing? They are three separate occurences in the game. There's nothing "disingenious" about saying 5 separate 50/50 decisions went Dublin's way.

Yes, 4, you could be on the wrong side 50% of the time but my point is its yet another 50/50 call that went Dublin's way. I have spoken to others at the match (I didn't see myself) and they believe that the referee didn't have his hand up for advantage when the Dublin player took his shot that hit the post. He put his hand up afterwards. This can't be seen in the footage.

5, whether or not its a problem with the GAA is not the issue, the problem is that not nearly enough time was played in a very tight game. There were two minutes held up (which was quite short anyway), a Dublin player then went down for forty seconds of that two minutes. Even then, the referee only played a few seconds over the 2 minutes and blew the whistle the first chance he got.

You could also add in 6, referee had his hand up for Cavan advantage at the end of the first half but Dillon shot and missed and the referee took his hand down.

Several people, Ger Gilroy (while also acknowledging Cavan selectors were wrong with their reaction), Meath goalkeeper Paddy O'Rourke and Conor Mortimer have commented that Cavan definitely have a case about what was some disgraceful refereeing.

I haven't watched the Roscommon game yet. You may say that's a politician's reply but I haven't.

I also don't believe we were shafted last year. Cork were the better team and let us back into the game. I can't say the same this year though. Yes, we had our own faults and failings but its very hard when that many 50/50 decisions go against you.

premierstone · 23-04-2014 1:25pm

Lemlin wrote: »

How are points 1,2 and 3 the same. They are 3 different instances and occasions where a decision went Dublin's way.

1. Dillon gets a black card. He is Cavan's best forward. That suits Dublin so decision goes their way.
2. McHugh, for a similar offence to Dillon, does not get a black card. Second instance of a 50/50 decision going Dublin's way. watch the replay. McHugh is getting ready to walk off and can't believe it himself when gets a yellow and not a black card. It's clear from the TG4 footage.
3. Costelloe goes down on a Cavan player after a free has been awarded with two knees. Definite black card.

How are those all the one thing? They are three separate occurences in the game. There's nothing "disingenious" about saying 5 separate 50/50 decisions went Dublin's way.

Yes, 4, you could be on the wrong side 50% of the time but my point is its yet another 50/50 call that went Dublin's way. I have spoken to others at the match (I didn't see myself) and they believe that the referee didn't have his hand up for advantage when the Dublin player took his shot that hit the post. He put his hand up afterwards. This can't be seen in the footage.

5, whether or not its a problem with the GAA is not the issue, the problem is that not nearly enough time was played in a very tight game.

Apologies I dont know what way I read your original post but was somehow under the impression you felt that when the Cavan player was black carded that the other two Dublin players were involved in the same instance/build up - my bad!

I was addmitedly flicking between another coule of sporting events and didnt see the Costello incident you have described, if it is as described here, then surely a red card not a black card?

Inconsistencies with the black card are going to cause serious problems this year I feel.

Lemlin · 23-04-2014 1:35pm

premierstone wrote: »

Apologies I dont know what way I read your original post but was somehow under the impression you felt that when the Cavan player was black carded that the other two Dublin players were involved in the same instance/build up - my bad!

I was addmitedly flicking between another coule of sporting events and didnt see the Costello incident you have described, if it is as described here, then surely a red card not a black card?

Inconsistencies with the black card are going to cause serious problems this year I feel.

I don't think the foul by Costelloe warranted a red card but it was certainly a black and others on the Dublin thread have also said that. It happens 32 minutes in the game. 2 minutes into the second half. It's actually the one instance of the three black cards described above that is a definite black card.

I've also been told by someone on the Dublin thread that a Cavan player should have received a black card after 9 minutes but I have yet to check that.

What is really annoying for Cavan supporters is that McHugh scored the equalising point and Costelloe the winner. If Dillon shouldn't have been, neither of those players should have been on the pitch. I couldn't believe it when I watched the replay myself. McHugh is totally resigned to getting a black card and about to walk off the pitch.

As for Peter Reilly, he was very annoyed at the time and probably shouldn't have given the interview. In all fairness though, why was the game played in Portlaoise when Cavan had objected? If Donegal won the Ulster final. they were going to play Dublin in Breffni so why were Cavan being dragged to Portlaoise, the ground where Dublin had played their semi and final. Cavan to Portlaoise is a two hour journey. Dublin to Portlaoise is a half hour to 45 minutes (I'm told, I've never travelled it). That's clearly unfair.

It hasn't been confirmed but I've also heard (and I raised it here) that Cavan's Ulster semi final was not in Brewster in Enniskillen because Monaghan had objected to Cavan playing in Brewster as we have played there so often. The game was then moved to the Athletic Grounds in Armagh.

For the semi final, Navan is in the county which lies between Cavan and Dublin so the match should have been fixed for there.

augustus gloop · 24-04-2014 3:42pm

David Givney to settle his move to Ballymun Kickhams over the next few weeks

Hammar · 24-04-2014 3:46pm

augustus gloop wrote: »

David Givney to settle his move to Ballymun Kickhams over the next few weeks

Jesus,huge loss to Mountnugent.

augustus gloop · 24-04-2014 3:54pm

It will be, small teams need their big players more than ever, but from a footballing point of view, along with the job prospects I imagine BK can offer him, its a hard spot to refuse.

Lemlin · 24-04-2014 6:24pm

Hammar wrote: »

Jesus,huge loss to Mountnugent.

I had heard a move to a Dublin club was on the cards. In fairness, he is living up there and two compatriots have already moved: O'Mara to Plunketts and Keating to Sylvesters.

I'd expect we'll see more young Cavan players make the move over the next few years.

Cavan team for the Division 3 final is announced tonight. Hyland has said he is going to have some very tough decisions re the 26/27 man panel without even bringing the starting 15 into it.

The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

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