The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Lemlin

Cavan team named:

CAVAN: Conor Gilsenan (Bailieborough); Joshua Hayes (Cootehill), Rory Dunne (Redhills), Feargal Flanagan (Butlersbridge); James McEnroe (Ramor United), Alan Clarke (Kingscourt), Damien O’Reilly (Belturbet); Gearoid McKiernan (Swanlinbar), Killian Brady (Mullahoran); Cian Mackey (Castlerahan), Niall McDermott (Ballinagh), Martin Reilly (Killygarry); Jack Brady (Ramor United), Martin Dunne (Cavan Gaels), Eugene Keating (St Sylvester’s).

No starting place for Givney. It appears we're also going without the U21s after their campaign.

Great to see Jack start in the corner. Hopefully he stays in there.

I wouldn't expect the starting 15 vs Armagh to be far from this.

Only one change from the starting 15 I suggested 3/4 weeks ago - Jack instead of Givney.

cavan4sam

augustus gloop wrote: »

David Givney to settle his move to Ballymun Kickhams over the next few weeks

not sure its a very good move for him ,i dont think he'll make the grade with kickhams but if he does it can only improve his game ,

Lemlin

cavan4sam wrote: »

not sure its a very good move for him ,i dont think he'll make the grade with kickhams but if he does it can only improve his game ,

Course he will. He made the grade to play for Ulster at midfield the past two years.

That cements his place as one of the best mids in Ulster yet you reckon he won't make a Dublin club team!?

Hammar

cavan4sam wrote: »

not sure its a very good move for him ,i dont think he'll make the grade with kickhams but if he does it can only improve his game ,

Givney would start and be a key man on every club team in Ireland.
I reckon there will be three changes from that team for the Armagh game, Argue into midfield for Gunner Brady,Killian Clarke for Damien O'Reily at wing back and Givney for Jack Brady at corner forward giving us an different option in the FF line.
Gunner will battle it out with Fergal Flanagan for that corner back position.
I'm suprised at no Jason McLoughlin,Maybe they are going to go with Fergal Flanagan on Jamie Clarke with additional help of course. Flanagan is a very good man marker.

augustus gloop

yes anyone who has followed hylands form knows there will be a few changes to that team

Lemlin

Hammar wrote: »

Givney would start and be a key man on every club team in Ireland.
I reckon there will be three changes from that team for the Armagh game, Argue into midfield for Gunner Brady,Killian Clarke for Damien O'Reily at wing back and Givney for Jack Brady at corner forward giving us an different option in the FF line.
Gunner will battle it out with Fergal Flanagan for that corner back position.
I'm suprised at no Jason McLoughlin,Maybe they are going to go with Fergal Flanagan on Jamie Clarke with additional help of course. Flanagan is a very good man marker.

Argue has been starting in the league on the 40 and not at midfield. No more than McKiernan and Givney at midfield, I'm not sure Hyland likes Argue and McKiernan. They're both too attacking. He seems to favour one attacker and one defender at midfield.

Killian Brady has been one of our best players in the League. I can't see him being dropped now. He's more than earned his place.

Damien O'Reilly is vice captain and had a great season last year. He missed some of the league due to injuries and having alot of commitments (his own business, new baby) but I don't think he'll be dropped either.

The same goes for Fergal Flanagan. He is one of the first players on Hyland's team sheet it appears as he has started every championship game for the last 3 years since he was 19. I'd expect him to probably pick up Aaron McKiernan vs Armagh like he did last year. He usually picks up the opposition's best play maker and shadows them.

McLoughlin may lose out. He was found wanting against Conor McManus last year in the Monaghan game. He also had a poor match in the Kerry game iirc.

I'd expect Clarke to go in at corner back instead of Hayes myself. Hayes has played well in the league but Clarke is going to be one of the best backs in the country.

Hammar

Lemlin wrote: »

Argue has been starting in the league on the 40 and not at midfield. No more than McKiernan and Givney at midfield, I'm not sure Hyland likes Argue and McKiernan. They're both too attacking. He seems to favour one attacker and one defender at midfield.

Killian Brady has been one of our best players in the League. I can't see him being dropped now. He's more than earned his place.

Damien O'Reilly is vice captain and had a great season last year. He missed some of the league due to injuries and having alot of commitments (his own business, new baby) but I don't think he'll be dropped either.

The same goes for Fergal Flanagan. He is one of the first players on Hyland's team sheet it appears as he has started every championship game for the last 3 years since he was 19. I'd expect him to probably pick up Aaron McKiernan vs Armagh like he did last year. He usually picks up the opposition's best play maker and shadows them.

McLoughlin may lose out. He was found wanting against Conor McManus last year in the Monaghan game. He also had a poor match in the Kerry game iirc.

I'd expect Clarke to go in at corner back instead of Hayes myself. Hayes has played well in the league but Clarke is going to be one of the best backs in the country.

The problem i have with a defensive option of Killian Brady/Damien O Reily at midfield is a lack of aerial power if Armagh have their usual "twin towers" at centre field. We were eclipsed in the aerial exchanges badly in KBP last year. But i would agree with you that both have been terrific in the league and will be hard to shift and fully deserve their place.

Josh Hayes has started every McKenna Cup and league game as far i know,(I could be wrong at that) so i can't see him being shifted.

I agree with you though that there has to be a position for Killian Clarke as despite how good some of the other lads have been,Clarke is a level above in terms of quality. We may see him at corner back picking up Jamie Clarke in June. At least one of those whom are more than deserving of a place is going to lose out unfortunately. It's a good problem to have,i suppose.

Lemlin

Hammar wrote: »

The problem i have with a defensive option of Killian Brady/Damien O Reily at midfield is a lack of aerial power if Armagh have their usual "twin towers" at centre field. We were eclipsed in the aerial exchanges badly in KBP last year. But i would agree with you that both have been terrific in the league and will be hard to shift and fully deserve their place.

Josh Hayes has started every McKenna Cup and league game as far i know,(I could be wrong at that) so i can't see him being shifted.

I agree with you though that there has to be a position for Killian Clarke as despite how good some of the other lads have been,Clarke is a level above in terms of quality. We may see him at corner back picking up Jamie Clarke in June. At least one of those whom are more than deserving of a place is going to lose out unfortunately. It's a good problem to have,i suppose.

We spent most of last year losing battles at midfield. We also allowed teams like Fermanagh to persist with short kick outs and didn't push up on them.

Our system seems to be to let opponents have the ball because we are confident we'll turn it over. Once we have it, it's all about keeping it then and not wasting possession.

If Argue starts on the 40, he generally drops out to midfield to help with any kick outs. A tall defensive minded natural midfielder is one thing we lack. Mossy Corr is about the best we have for that role. Clarke could play there but I think he's needed at corner back.

Oisin Minagh played most of the league last year and then didn't get a look-in come championship. The fact is someone has to drop out and with the options available I think it can't be anyone but Hayes by a process of elimination. He has been a great asset through the league but Clarke is Clarke and he has to play.

There are plenty of lads who deserve places missing out: Givney, Ronan Flanagan, Damien Barkey, McLoughlin, Niall Murray, Mickey Lyng, Mossy Corr and others. Then we still have the 3 U21 lads to come back plus whoever else Hyland calls in from that panel. I'd expect to see James Farrelly definitely in there.

Hammar

Lemlin wrote: »

We spent most of last year losing battles at midfield. We also allowed teams like Fermanagh to persist with short kick outs and didn't push up on them.

Our system seems to be to let opponents have the ball because we are confident we'll turn it over. Once we have it, it's all about keeping it then and not wasting possession.

If Argue starts on the 40, he generally drops out to midfield to help with any kick outs. A tall defensive minded natural midfielder is one thing we lack. Mossy Corr is about the best we have for that role. Clarke could play there but I think he's needed at corner back.

Oisin Minagh played most of the league last year and then didn't get a look-in come championship. The fact is someone has to drop out and with the options available I think it can't be anyone but Hayes by a process of elimination. He has been a great asset through the league but Clarke is Clarke and he has to play.

There are plenty of lads who deserve places missing out: Givney, Ronan Flanagan, Damien Barkey, McLoughlin, Niall Murray, Mickey Lyng, Mossy Corr and others. Then we still have the 3 U21 lads to come back plus whoever else Hyland calls in from that panel. I'd expect to see James Farrelly definitely in there.

Thats actually an interesting point,I can see Clarke as that defensive midfield player with good aerial ability that we are missing,It might be next year at this stage before we see it being tried,i couldn't see Hyland trying it in an USFC match without experimenting with it in the league beforehand.

Lemlin

Hammar wrote: »

Thats actually an interesting point,I can see Clarke as that defensive midfield player with good aerial ability that we are missing,It might be next year at this stage before we see it being tried,i couldn't see Hyland trying it in an USFC match without experimenting with it in the league beforehand.

He was moved there in a couple of championship games last year iirc. I think the Derry game might be one. Fermanagh in Brewster as well.

Nice article about him here:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/cavan/cavans-killian-clarke-works-hard-to-make-it-easy-30198781.html

celt262

Oisin Minagh played most of the league last year and then didn't get a look-in come championship

The reason for that was that he emigrated and I don't think he played many league games.

Lemlin

celt262 wrote: »

The reason for that was that he emigrated and I don't think he played many league games.

The above is completely wrong.

He emigrated when the season was over:

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=199321

iirc he started the bulk of League games as McLoughlin and Clarke were not available.

Edit: just checked the first four and Minagh started all four. Games against Antrim, Monaghan, Meath and Fermanagh. I'm not bothered checking if he started the other 3 but I believe he did.

celt262

I would say you were mad in head only for the link I don't remember seen any of him in the championship and was sure he headed off early in year.

Lemlin

celt262 wrote: »

I would say you were mad in head only for the link I don't remember seen any of him in the championship and was sure he headed off early in year.

You didn't see him in the Championship. He played every league game though at corner back. He and Brady. Then both were pretty much dropped come Championship because Clarke and McLoughlin were back.

Brady only started the Armagh game because Jack was injured and he started named as a half forward.

Hammar

I've also got to throw in a good word for my fellow club mate Kevin Tierney,He's playing the best football of his life right now, Scored 0-8 from Centre Half back for us against Cootehill last weekend,probably the best performance i've ever seen him give.
The Strength and Conditioning work done under Peter Donnelly has brought him on to another level.

KeepTheFaith

Givney may struggle to get a place on the Cavan team now, he has always been more style than substance for me. Being picked on the Ulster team means very little. There's a reason he was Hyland's third choice at midfield before Gearoid and Mossy were injured last year. For a period he was 'too good to leave out' but still couldn't call any position on the field his own. He wastes far too much possession to be an automatic choice for Cavan and as the panel strengthens more reliable players will be picked.

The team named is roughly the best we have. If Jack starts I sincerely doubt he will stay in the corner. We won't be breaking up the winning formula. Jack will do what Terry has had him doing since 2012 at U21 and Senior, working around the '40 and providing dependability, taking the right options and finding the inside men with his passing range.

Good strength to the panel though and Killian Clarke, Argue, McLoughlin, Corr, Ronan Flanagan, Lyng, McKeever, are all good enough to be in the mix for a place on this side.

Roscommon won't be simple but we can go and play without any fear. There's nothing to lose but they'll stick to the gameplan and go about their business as usual.

cavan4sam

Lemlin wrote: »

Course he will. He made the grade to play for Ulster at midfield the past two years.

That cements his place as one of the best mids in Ulster yet you reckon he won't make a Dublin club team!?

To me he is a player in decline He promised a lot but has not set the world alight on the senior stage , I hope I'm wrong,
He'll be a big loss to mountnugent. If he goes,

As for ulster surely none of us are naive to believe he's one of the best midfielders

Best of luck to our seniors tomorrow evening , what stands are open ?

Lemlin

cavan4sam wrote: »

To me he is a player in decline He promised a lot but has not set the world alight on the senior stage , I hope I'm wrong,
He'll be a big loss to mountnugent. If he goes,

As for ulster surely none of us are naive to believe he's one of the best midfielders

Best of luck to our seniors tomorrow evening , what stands are open ?

His form hasn't been as good this year but I don't think he'd make that Ulster panel otherwise. Last year he was played ahead of Gearoid. Would we not all think of Gearoid as one of the best in Ulster?

The one thing I think Givney lacks is the ability to grab hold of a game by the scruff of the neck like Gearoid can. For example 2 years ago in Brewster I don't think we would have won without Gearoid on the field.

I'm unsure what stands are open, I'm in Premium

KeepTheFaith

An appearance for Ulster means nothing and it's no sort of reliable gauge of a player's ability. Judge players on their performances for their counties and especially Championship performances.

I'm almost sure the Hogan is the only stand open. I expect a very small crowd tomorrow. Tipp and Clare won't travel and the Rossies have an All Ireland Final next week.

Hammar

A Very disappointing result,but quite possibly the wake up call that we needed.
The half forward line for me,Mackey,McDermott and Martin Reily especially were immense. We struggled badly at midfield against the Roscommon "triangle" of Higgins and the two Shines, Argue and Killian Clarke coming on helped,but we have alot of areas we need to improve on greatly if we are to win in the Athletic Grounds in June.

Lemlin

What to say? Just home and very disappointed. After 15 minutes we seemed to be motoring and were knocking over points from everywhere.

Then we lost the game at midfield and went out of it totally. Some players were poor to say the least.

Rory Dunne, usually so reliable, had a shocker. Clarke wasn't great when he came on. Keating left more ball behind him than he took. Dunne missed more than he scored. We just had too many passengers and maybe it's the kick up the arse the team need.

If we play like that again, we won't beat Armagh. The sideline got things wrong as well. Why bring on poor Mickey Lyng just to pull him back off!?

The biggest sickener is that the game was there for the taking around the 60 minute mark and we kicked what I thought was four wides in a row. HS review of the game says three but I thought it was four. Either way, it was terrible.

Hopefully the lads will sit down and watch that video a good few times. There's alot to be learned. I won't even start on the goal....

Johner

Cavan didn't take their chances today, the could have been out of sight after 10 minutes and when it was level midway through the second half I think they kicked 4 wides in a row. Also the shot selection of Martin Dunne is criminal at times, he's a very talented player but a hugely frustrating one.

Hammar

Lemlin wrote: »

What to say? Just home and very disappointed. After 15 minutes we seemed to be motoring and were knocking over points from everywhere.

Then we lost the game at midfield and went out of it totally. Some players were poor to say the least.

Rory Dunne, usually so reliable, had a shocker. Clarke wasn't great when he came on. Keating left more ball behind him than he took. Dunne missed more than he scored. We just had too many passengers and maybe it's the kick up the arse the team need.

If we play like that again, we won't beat Armagh. The sideline got things wrong as well. Why bring on poor Mickey Lyng just to pull him back off!?

The biggest sickener is that the game was there for the taking around the 60 minute mark and we kicked what I thought was four wides in a row. HS review of the game says three but I thought it was four. Either way, it was terrible.

Hopefully the lads will sit down and watch that video a good few times. There's alot to be learned. I won't even start on the goal....

Mackey,McDermott,Dunne and McKiernan all missed,so you're correct, 4 in a row.
There were definitely some decisions on the sideline i questioned,
James McEnroe for me shouldn't have been the defender taken off, I know Shine caught a few balls over him around the midfield diamond,but he should never have been contesting them in the first place seeing as he gives up 4 inches in height to him. There were others than should have went before him.

Lemlin

McEnroe rarely tends to finish games. It's something I've noticed in the past. May be a fitness issue.

I thought Jack looked too rusty and shouldn't have started. He should have went off earlier IMO. I was surprised to see him for the second half.

Crash Bang Wall

We started well and were on top for the first 15. After that it went a bit pear shaped. We started to get bullied at mf, but to be fair I thought Killian Clarke done well when he came on. Where it went wrong for me though was the gk and ff line.

The goal we conceded, I have no idea what Gilsenan was doing. The guy ran straight through and Gilsenan was in no mans land. He neither closed down or stayed on his line. His kickous were poor also, especially when we were being cleaned out at mf.

And the FF line.......not at the races at all. Jack clearly short of match practice, Dunne easily missed 1-3 04 1-4. The oneat the end of the first half was criminal, straight into keepers hands from no more than 20 yards.
And Keating......so so greedy its insane. He tried two hail mary efforts in the first half from under the Hogan Stand, and in the second half when he did get on the play he rarely ussed it well. One instance when Mackey broke past him at pace on the shoulder and he held on to the ball, and lost it had me screaming.

The management were hit and miss. Clarke improved us at MF, maybe Argue could have came on, as he a more natural MF option. Cant see why Brady lasted so long either. I dont blame the lad, as he was short of match fitness, but he had very little influence on the game.

Rory Dunne was isloated more than normal, maybe its something we have to get used to, and that can definitely be worked on so it doesnt concern me too much.

We kicked a lot of scoreable wides in the second half, again something we can work on, but the FF line needs to seriouusly up their game in regards to shot selection and decision making.

Lack of a quality free taker is also killing us, Donie Shine missed nothing all night

nice_guy80

Shine missed one actually.

I said previously that Cavan will never win much at senior with the approach being taken at U21. Firstly, it lost them the game against Dublin when they should have been pushing on.
Playing defensive football at that age group will produce players who fit into a system, but then at senior when you need really high skill levels and an ability to make decisions on the ball under pressure it doesn't happen.

Crash Bang Wall

Different approach between the seniors and under 21s to be fair. 21s played more defensive because they dont have the forwards to play a more attacking game. Seniors lost the game last nite from a gready ff line, and missing a host of scoreable chances, especially in the second half

celt262

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Different approach between the seniors and under 21s to be fair. 21s played more defensive because they dont have the forwards to play a more attacking game. Seniors lost the game last nite from a gready ff line, and missing a host of scoreable chances, especially in the second half

That is not going to change though, the two lads are greedy and that won't be knocked out of them at this stage. It is a big problem but we don't have many other options.

When team run at us at pace we are in bother.

cavan4sam

As crash said the game was lost in goals and ff line
. Gilsenans kick outs were predictable and as for the goal well thats just his big day party piece
imo he should be no.3 in the line of keepers .

As for keating and dunne they had the winning of the game and fluffed it
Jack brady to me is somewhat overrated huge potential but lacks a little in confidence.

tom hayes cud be a good addition to the panel he'd add a bit more firepower and looks very strong

terry got some calls wrong on the line givney for all his faults wud have not let rossies bully us in midfield

Dunne should not have taken the penalty . I thought niall mc was our penalty taker

all in all disappointed with the result but it was a good game of football with some great score taking

Lots of schoolboy errors to work on but we should be right for armagh

.was I the only one wondering was there a fancy dress competition in croker last night some of the lads in front of me were priceless particularly the leprechauns doing the warm up beside the rossie subs .

cavan4sam

As crash said the game was lost in goals and ff line
. Gilsenans kick outs were predictable and as for the goal well thats just his big day party piece
imo he should be no.3 in the line of keepers .

As for keating and dunne they had the winning of the game and fluffed it
Jack brady to me is somewhat overrated huge potential but lacks a little in confidence.

tom hayes cud be a good addition to the panel he'd add a bit more firepower and looks very strong

terry got some calls wrong on the line givney for all his faults wud have not let rossies bully us in midfield

Dunne should not have taken the penalty . I thought niall mc was our penalty taker

all in all disappointed with the result but it was a good game of football with some great score taking

Lots of schoolboy errors to work on but we should be right for armagh

.was I the only one wondering was there a fancy dress competition in croker last night some of the lads in front of me were priceless particularly the leprechauns doing the warm up beside the rossie subs .