The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Lemlin

Tom Joad wrote: »

Probably explains it all right but would have been better off leaving it at 7 o clock.

Even 5 but then it'd clash with the first World Cup game of that evening. I still think your looking at a poor crowd. I've already asked a few here in work and they don't seem interested in going.

One thing I've noticed is that alot of people who would normally be stalwart supporters lost a bit of heart in the team after the Roscommon defeat.

Tom Joad

Lemlin wrote: »

One thing I've noticed is that alot of people who would normally be stalwart supporters lost a bit of heart in the team after the Roscommon defeat.

I can't fathom that at all - we lost a final in Croke Park to a good team that ran Mayo to a point .

We played poorly in Croke Park again but hardly the end of the world. Or was it on top of the under 21 result??

KeepTheFaith

Anyone who loses faith after losing a final in Croker after an unbeaten League Campaign is no sort of stalwart. We've followed throughout some seriously barren years let's not forget that.

Hammar

I won't make it as i work until 4pm on Saturday.
Fixing a game for 3pm on a Saturday is bull****.

Lemlin

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Anyone who loses faith after losing a final in Croker after an unbeaten League Campaign is no sort of stalwart. We've followed throughout some seriously barren years let's not forget that.

That's what I can't understand but I've spoken to a number of people, particularly older gents who would have seen the barren years of the early nineties, and they seem to be losing a bit of heart in the team.

I think alot of people are coming to the conclusion that the system we use is holding our footballers back. To be honest, I think the system plays to our strengths.

We've won four U21 Ulster titles but scoring forwards have always been something we lacked. People seem to think if we knock off the shackles we'll fly into teams but what people expect often isn't what actually happens.

I'm hearing Mackey could miss the game this weekend so that could leave us without Clarke, McVeety, Mackey, Flanagan and Dunne. Five starters. Christopher Conroy could be in with a shout to replace Mackey.

Will be interesting to see what the junior team is tomorrow.

scoopmine

I thought the junior was tomorrow?

Lemlin

scoopmine wrote: »

I thought the junior was tomorrow?

I'm getting ahead of myself. Ninja edit completed.

willabur

celt262 wrote: »

It's a joke that they are keeping this a secret.

Lemlin wrote: »

That's what I can't understand but I've spoken to a number of people, particularly older gents who would have seen the barren years of the early nineties, and they seem to be losing a bit of heart in the team.

I think alot of people are coming to the conclusion that the system we use is holding our footballers back. To be honest, I think the system plays to our strengths.

We've won four U21 Ulster titles but scoring forwards have always been something we lacked. People seem to think if we knock off the shackles we'll fly into teams but what people expect often isn't what actually happens.

I'm hearing Mackey could miss the game this weekend so that could leave us without Clarke, McVeety, Mackey, Flanagan and Dunne. Five starters. Christopher Conroy could be in with a shout to replace Mackey.

Will be interesting to see what the junior team is tomorrow.

I tear my hair out when I am at a cavan match listening to lads shouting to let the ball in or going on about the negative style of play.
The system we have has brought us a serious amount of success, while we are doing alot of things right it is still very much a work in progress. The team and ethos is still at an early stage of development. I think our greatest strength has to come from accepting what is our greatest weakness and that is being a small fish in a big pond. We need to play the way we do in order to compete, we need to prepare better and work harder because by sheer weight of numbers other counties will have a natural advantage over us. It looks in all likelyhood like this will be a year of modest progression. ANother Ulster u21 and a league promotion are both massive plusses. Would be nice to see people get behind the team and push on for a few more championship games this year, get some wins under the belt and change the headlines of cavan football to be about winning games rather than pre match kerfuffles or referee baiting by disgruntled ill advised individuals.

Crash Bang Wall

The same lads shouting lump it in, are the same lads that yell terrible ball when the ball actually does go in.

I think we need to work at getting the ball from back to front a bit quicker. At present Mackey is the only one who can carry the ball at pace. McDermott against Armagh tried it and was turned over numerous times.

The fist passing over and back the field needs to be accompanied by intelligent runs from half forwards and full forwards, eg ff line running out bringing markers, and hb/hf running in looking for quick ball over the top.

We are lighter than most teams so we need to vary a running game as much as possible.

willabur

I think alot of the problem the other day was the speed at which we played, we seriously lacked intensity aswell as a bit of cuteness. In order for our game to be effective we need to have (as you say) guys running strong to break the lines, the same way that mackey does. Mackeys talent is that he can do it with the ball.
Without that its too easy for a team like Armagh to sit back and hit anything that tries to come at them with the ball. Ball gets turned over and someone like Kevin Dyas is given the freedom of the park to tear our exposed defence a new one

Lemlin

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

The same lads shouting lump it in, are the same lads that yell terrible ball when the ball actually does go in.

I think we need to work at getting the ball from back to front a bit quicker. At present Mackey is the only one who can carry the ball at pace. McDermott against Armagh tried it and was turned over numerous times.

The fist passing over and back the field needs to be accompanied by intelligent runs from half forwards and full forwards, eg ff line running out bringing markers, and hb/hf running in looking for quick ball over the top.

We are lighter than most teams so we need to vary a running game as much as possible.

I've been saying that since I first watched this system in the McKenna Cup last year against Down. I know I keep blurting on about him but I think Niall Smith could be a huge addition to the starting 15 if he can play like he did for the U21s - attacking the opposition at pace.

We are too slow and ponderous. I've no problem with the defensive system but we need to work the ball forward quicker. There's no point having Givney and Keating in the full forward line if the ball isn't going in. Keating will win dirty ball himself as well. People talk about Dunne getting scores but Keating scored 0-5 from play on McGee for Cavan two years ago against Donegal.

tayto lover

Cavan scored 5 - 10 against an understrength Louth team in a challenge at the weekend so all is not too bad for you lads. Chins up.

Lemlin

tayto lover wrote: »

Cavan scored 5 - 10 against an understrength Louth team in a challenge at the weekend so all is not too bad for you lads. Chins up.

To compete at a decent level we'd want to be scoring that against a full strength Louth team

Tom Joad

Cavan 6 points to 4 up at Half time in Junior Final.

tayto lover

Cavan 1-11 Longford 1 -7 Full Time. Late L/ford goal.
One of my Kingscourt friends at the game just sent me a text.

Tom Joad

tayto lover wrote: »

Cavan 1-11 Longford 1 -7 Full Time. Late L/ford goal.
One of my Kingscourt friends at the game just sent me a text.

More Leinster titles than Meath this year so :D

Hill St Blue

The team was named today (link below)
It'll be the twitter feed for me Because of the delay in confirming the match time, like a lot of other folk, I had to say yes to other plans. Given that they knew about the fixture quite a while ago, it's poor form that they waited so long to arrange it...I know a good few folk who won't make it. It'll be the 1st Champo match that I've missed in about 20 years!

Hyland’s management team have made four changes from the side that took the field in the Athletic Grounds. In comes Joshua Hayes who impressed at corner back throughout the Allianz NFL along with Cavan Gaels club men Robert Maloney-Derham and the experienced Michael Lyng. Michael Argue who made his senior debut in last years qualifier also gets the nod having impressed throughout the U-21 campaign. Making way are Feargal Flanagan, Dara McVeety, Killian Brady and Eugene Keating.

Cavan line out as follows:

1 Conor Gilsenan Conchur Mac Giolla Seanáin Seamróga Choill an Chollaigh 2 Jason Mac Laughlin Jason Mac Lochlainn Gaeil Na Sionnáine 3 Rory Dunne Ruarí Ó Duinn Cnoc Rua 4 Alan Clarke Alún Ó Cleirigh Dún-A-Rí 5 Joshua Hayes Joshua Ó hAodha An Muinchille 6 James McEnroe Seamus Mac Conrua Reamor Aontainthe 7 Robert Maloney-Derham Roibeard Ó Maolomhnaighh/Deirm Gael An Cabhán 8 Damien O Reilly Damien Ó Raghallaigh Béal Tairbirt 9 Gearoid McKiernan Gearóid MacTiarnann Muilleann Iarann 10 Michael Argue Michael Ó hÉarga Seamróga Choill an Chollaigh 11 Michael Lyng Michael Ó Loinn Gael An Cabhán 12 Niall McDermott Niall Mac Dhiarmada Béal Átha na nEach 13 Jack Brady Sean Mac Bradaigh Reamor Aontainthe 14 David Givney Dáithí Ó Dhuibhne Ciceam Bailemunna 15 Martin Reilly Mairtín Ó Raghallaigh Coill na Gearraí

All Ireland Qualifier (AIQ) Cavan V Westmeath Saturday 28th June, Kingspan Breffni Park at 3pm.

Tom Joad

The only way that team sheet makes sense is if it is a dud.

Lemlin

Tom Joad wrote: »

The only way that team sheet makes sense is if it is a dud.

No Mackey and no Keating. Mackey is still injured though I believe and I had heard Keating's place was in doubt prior to the Armagh game. He's badly off form apparently.

Tom Joad

Lemlin wrote: »

No Mackey and no Keating. Mackey is still injured though I believe and I had heard Keating's place was in doubt prior to the Armagh game. He's badly off form apparently.

Aware that Mackey won't make it but Givney ahead of Keating makes no sense to me especially with no Dunne. Who is going to get scores??

Not Keating's biggest fan but Givney offers nothing at 14. Can't understand Jack Brady starting either unless the Junior game is being given a bigger priority than this game?

There are plenty of lads showing good form that are worth a jersey from the juniors - Philly Tinnelly, Paul O'Connor for a start.

We will be in trouble at midfield as Gearoid is just not at match fitness so it's hard to see where the creativity is going to come from.

I was starting to get hopeful about Saturday but now am worried that we just don't have enough to get scores or even create chances.

tayto lover

Tom Joad wrote: »

Aware that Mackey won't make it but Givney ahead of Keating makes no sense to me especially with no Dunne. Who is going to get scores??

Not Keating's biggest fan but Givney offers nothing at 14. Can't understand Jack Brady starting either unless the Junior game is being given a bigger priority than this game?

There are plenty of lads showing good form that are worth a jersey from the juniors - Philly Tinnelly, Paul O'Connor for a start.

We will be in trouble at midfield as Gearoid is just not at match fitness so it's hard to see where the creativity is going to come from.

I was starting to get hopeful about Saturday but now am worried that we just don't have enough to get scores or even create chances.

Was impressed with Enda Reilly in the Junior games. He knows where the goals are.

Tom Joad

tayto lover wrote: »

Was impressed with Enda Reilly in the Junior games. He knows where the goals are.

Good call as well - another guy who is showing some form. The priority must be the juniors - only reason that these lads are not getting called into senior panel.

Lemlin

Tom Joad wrote: »

Good call as well - another guy who is showing some form. The priority must be the juniors - only reason that these lads are not getting called into senior panel.

I don't know tbh. Hyland has never rushed lads from junior to senior. I know a man that was at the junior final Wednesday night and said the only players that made an impression were Tinnelly, Moynagh and Tom Hayes when he came on.

He wasn't impressed at all with O'Connor. He said he appears to have developed into another Cavan forward who has a habit of trying shots from impossible angles.

The other problem he had was that the slow ponderous play continued so it looks like we'll see more of the same on Saturday.

Thunderbirds

Enda Reilly good at placed balls in last two junior games but offers nothing from play. Paul O Connor has being largely anonymous in the juniors too. Conor Moynagh and Tinnelly look like two seniors. Stick out like sore thumbs. Mickey Lyng was terrible in junior semi so don't know how being named on 40. Paul Smith looked very good in final too. Tom Hayes changed game when he came on.

Tom Joad

Thunderbirds wrote: »

Enda Reilly good at placed balls in last two junior games but offers nothing from play. Paul O Connor has being largely anonymous in the juniors too. Conor Moynagh and Tinnelly look like two seniors. Stick out like sore thumbs. Mickey Lyng was terrible in junior semi so don't know how being named on 40. Paul Smith looked very good in final too. Tom Hayes changed game when he came on.

Haven't seen too much of the junior games so mainly going on what I've seen of the players in other games and what I'm hearing from the matches.

My big question is where the scores are going to come from on Saturday and what criteria players are being picked on and is the junior championship being given a greater importance than the senior side this year? I'm starting to think that the main objective for the year was promotion and a crack at an under 21 all-ireland and that was it.

For me the match against Westmeath is massive for rebuilding confidence and faith in the team. If the management have decided Keating is not starting on the basis of form - why pick Givney as the big target man when his form has been awful? Similarly with Jack Brady and Mickey Lyng - really don't have a good shout based on form over the likes of O'Connor, E Reilly, Hayes in my opinion. Also feel that to get the best of Niall McDermott he should be played in the right position (off the shoulder of the forward line target man) to do damage. As there will be no one marauding forward from midfield to offer a different point of attack - we are relying on our two wing half backs to do a hell of a lot - would have given the nod to Tinnelly on that score on form.

I am huge fan of Terry Hyland's and I know his team sheets are a work of fantasy usually so maybe I am worrying unnecessarily here.

Thunderbirds

No Niall Smith in squad for junior final. Him and Lyng both absent from semi. Tinnelly looks like he could play wing forward and no Keating is strange but he has to pass it around more.

Lemlin

Tom Joad wrote: »

Haven't seen too much of the junior games so mainly going on what I've seen of the players in other games and what I'm hearing from the matches.

My big question is where the scores are going to come from on Saturday and what criteria players are being picked on and is the junior championship being given a greater importance than the senior side this year? I'm starting to think that the main objective for the year was promotion and a crack at an under 21 all-ireland and that was it.

For me the match against Westmeath is massive for rebuilding confidence and faith in the team. If the management have decided Keating is not starting on the basis of form - why pick Givney as the big target man when his form has been awful? Similarly with Jack Brady and Mickey Lyng - really don't have a good shout based on form over the likes of O'Connor, E Reilly, Hayes in my opinion. Also feel that to get the best of Niall McDermott he should be played in the right position (off the shoulder of the forward line target man) to do damage. As there will be no one marauding forward from midfield to offer a different point of attack - we are relying on our two wing half backs to do a hell of a lot - would have given the nod to Tinnelly on that score on form.

I am huge fan of Terry Hyland's and I know his team sheets are a work of fantasy usually so maybe I am worrying unnecessarily here.

I haven't attended any junior games this year but from what I've heard what is said above by Thunderbirds is totally correct. As with the Irish soccer team and the fixation with Andy Reid/Stephen Ireland etc., we in Cavan seem to have an awful fixation with elevating players who don't really warrant inclusion. Previously it was Kevin Tierney who people reckoned wasn't given a chance until he got a few runs in the League this year. Now its O'Connor. O'Connor had one good game for the juniors against what was apparently a woeful Wexford team. He hasn't performed in either of the games since.

I can't see why you would think that about the junior championship and saving players to be honest Tom. If anything, this year's junior team is more experimental than previous years. We also need to bear in mind that the team are regularly playing practice games in training. The word I'm hearing from these is that Givney is flying in training and Ketaing is not. Apparently things just aren't working out for him and he has no club at the minute so isn't playing a lot either. Hayes is still very young to throw into senior football. He's only 17 or so and I think he's better as an impact sub if used at that age rather than starting.

In relation to scores and where they will come from, last year we scored 1-22 against Derry. The scores were shared around the team. Martin Dunne was top scorer with 6 points but 5 of that was from frees. Martin Reilly was top scorer with 4 points from play and a number of other players chipped in with two points each. Martin Reilly, Brady, Argue, McKiernan, McDermott and Givney are all well fit to take a score. Not to mention Damien O'Reilly and McEnroe when moving forward.

I'm not reading too much into the team selection but I can see its advantages. I would think that if it starts near as selected that Maloney Dernham will move to midfield with McKiernan and O'Reilly will drop back to the half back line. That will introduce some much needed height with a second big man at midfield. I would also expect Argue to operate like Donie Shine did for Roscommon in the league final and drop back to ensure we have three big men at midfield for kick outs.

celt262

Argue could also be used like he was in the U21 semi for kickouts , but i'm not sure if the named keeper has the ability to get the ball on top of him.


I would be worried where the scores will come from I guess everyone will have to chip in with a few if we are going to win.

Tom Joad

I'm not leading any bandwagon for any particular player to be included. I mentioned an example of two players who have been showing form who in my view were in with decent shouts of a jersey ahead of Jack Brady and David Givney. If Keating was dropped based on poor form then the leaving Givney as the target man/ main ball winner pick is a bit of a head scratcher for me as his form has been worse over a longer time frame.

In my opinion there are lads showing form who merit a jersey based on form over the likes of Lyng and Jack Brady. Conor Moynagh is another that is showing form as is Philly Tinnelly and I would have thought they might have been elevated to the senior panel. That's not fixating on any one particular player.

I can't see why you would think that about the junior championship and saving
players to be honest Tom.

It happened with the under 21s in the league (correctly so in my opinion) and plenty of people questioned it in previous years on this thread and elsewhere so it's not a huge leap to make.


Re the scoring, there's a lot more to it than sticking the ball over the bar - the ball has to be brought into the right areas of the field and chances have to be created. I can't see Gearoid being fit enough to make bursts forward and I think we are lacking a bit of creativity and score making ability if the team takes the field as per announced.

But it would be a surprise if that did happen as we all know. And as the great man himself once said when asked how many selectors he would have after he got the job - he answered about 2,000 if the game is in Breffni.

TL;DR - I'm worried that we don't have enough in the team to get scores and the team has stagnated a wee bit - fresh blood and confidence into the team may have given the side a lift.

Lemlin

Tom Joad wrote: »

I'm not leading any bandwagon for any particular player to be included. I mentioned an example of two players who have been showing form who in my view were in with decent shouts of a jersey ahead of Jack Brady and David Givney. If Keating was dropped based on poor form then the leaving Givney as the target man/ main ball winner pick is a bit of a head scratcher for me as his form has been worse over a longer time frame.

In my opinion there are lads showing form who merit a jersey based on form over the likes of Lyng and Jack Brady. Conor Moynagh is another that is showing form as is Philly Tinnelly and I would have thought they might have been elevated to the senior panel. That's not fixating on any one particular player.

It happened with the under 21s in the league (correctly so in my opinion) and plenty of people questioned it in previous years on this thread and elsewhere so it's not a huge leap to make.

Re the scoring, there's a lot more to it than sticking the ball over the bar - the ball has to be brought into the right areas of the field and chances have to be created. I can't see Gearoid being fit enough to make bursts forward and I think we are lacking a bit of creativity and score making ability if the team takes the field as per announced.

But it would be a surprise if that did happen as we all know. And as the great man himself once said when asked how many selectors he would have after he got the job - he answered about 2,000 if the game is in Breffni.

TL;DR - I'm worried that we don't have enough in the team to get scores and the team has stagnated a wee bit - fresh blood and confidence into the team may have given the side a lift.

I haven't found Givney's form all that bad to be honest. He did a capable job in our run last year in difficult circumstances - playing without a recognised midfielder beside him.

I also think he made the best of a bad situation in the Armagh game. The ball wasn't played into him. Keating, on the other hand, cut a frustrated and dejected figure. Too much shoulder shrugging and giving out.

I'd agree about Jack Brady though. I still believe he may not start and we could see Keating in there. I'd even throw Tierney in ahead of him tbh.

Lyng is a bit of a wildcard but he's a creative player that can pick a pass. He wouldn't have made my team sheet either after the League final but he's 30 or so and Hyland must have him in there because he planned using him at some stage.

Things could go wrong but it's certainly a team I don't mind seeing. I'd have preferred to see Mossy Corr and perhaps McKeever included somewhere but we'll see how things go tomorrow.