NASRPC nationals in NI, United Kingdom, WHY?

5rdmag

Why are the NASRPC holding our National Pistol Shooting Competition in Northern Ireland, United Kingdom. Why not hold it in the Republic of Ireland where all the clubs that it is meant to represent reside and where their membership are based??

Why does a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, with a certified firearm have to apply to a foreign state for a visitors permit to participate in their own National Championships in a foreign country??

There are many clubs throughout the Republic with suitable facilities were our own licenced pistol shooters would be able to attend...again, I ask why??.....

I think the NASRPC are trying to screw us over yet again....

Sparks

Moved out of Target Shooting because of the no-politics charter rule.

5rdmag

Sparks,

This is nothing to do with politics.....nothing of the sort, just a simple question about holding an Irish National shooting competition in another country....simple.

Dr_Teeth

Dude. Two weeks ago you were all

"This is why I will not support any event, shoot or otherwise involving the NASRPC. "

and now you're like

"I think the NASRPC are trying to screw us over yet again.... "

On the off-chance that you're an actual NASRPC competitor though, you should know that many national matches are shot each year in various clubs around the country. I try to get to 3 or 4 myself in Harbour House / Ballyhoura / Hilltop / Rathdrum etc.

The calendar of events is here: http://www.nasrpc.ie/events

I can't see why you'd have a problem with one of them being hosted north of the border, sport being a unifying thing and all that.

Grizzly 45

Well,I asked the same question about two weeks ago on a simmilar thread,but going by the NASRPC calender there is competitions for WA1500
in Newry in March
,April Newry
May[post the German internationals in30Apr/1st May],Newry
An International WA in NI in June,Newry
July ,Newry
Aug,Newry [so you can get the ol bit of practise in for Stockholm no doubt]
Sept ,Newry
Oct
,if you dont want to go to the IPSC world shoot,in Rhodes in Greece and give the Greeks a few ol bob to help them out in their economy ,with an international competition that WE could host just as easily,but CANT because of our dumbass legislation!!:mad:
You can always go to Newry!!

Nov...you guessed it!! ..Newry

Dec Newry.Handy for the Xmas shopping afterwards.

IOW if you want to shoot 1500 or IPSC.MOVE to Newry!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So Doc,call me abit nit picking but thats 12 competitions on in NI for 2011.
There is not ONE 1500 competition on that calender for the ROI!!!!

I was at ONE 1500 shoot last year in the ROI that was Bhoura.

So would anyone from the NASRPC or the reps on 1500 like to comment on WHY everything is over six hours drive away for some of us with revelant hassle and paperwork??

I mean,we do have exellent ROs down here with 1500 skills and clubs and ranges and things..Why is there nothing simmilar down here??After all I and many others did put in a lot of time,hassle and legal expense to continue this sport,without the added expense of now driving,flying or walking to NI to go shooting competitions when there is a range an hour away??

Anyone??

PS I couldnt care less about 26,32 or 3500 counties united Ireland.I would just like to shoot a odd competition somwhere that does not require extra paperwork, a six hour drive+/-and a mortage in petrol to get to.

Sparks

5rdmag wrote: »

Sparks,
This is nothing to do with politics.....nothing of the sort, just a simple question about holding an Irish National shooting competition in another country....simple.

It's a purely political question 5rdmag, in that it has to do with the administration of the sport rather than the sport itself.

That doesn't mean it's not a legitimate question though - I know the NTSA is a 32-county body and always has been, but the NASRPC has been a 26-country body for as long as I can remember, so it struck me as odd also.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So would anyone from the NTSA or the reps on 1500 like to comment

Minor typo there Grizz, but just to be clear, the NTSA isn't involved in this...

dCorbus

So would anyone from the NTSA or the reps on 1500 like to comment on WHY everything is over six hours drive away for some of us with revelant hassle and paperwork??

Yo, grizz, nought to do with the NTSA - Shurely, you mean the NASRPC? Aren't they the WA1500 reps around these here parts?:D

PS I couldnt care less about 26,32 or 3500 counties united Ireland.I would just like to shoot a odd competition somwhere that does not require extra paperwork, a six hour drive+/-and a mortage in petrol to get to.

+1 on that.

I made a similar point a while back (which was totally misunderstood and misinterpreted by many, as I understand it, and thus accordingly modded out of existence - but which was meant with the best intentions and without any malice or "politic" slant).

BTW anyone planning to get up to the shoot in BPC, who doesn't already have an NI Visitors permit, better get their skates on - it's less than 3 weeks away and the permits can sometimes take a bit longer than that to recieve.

<Mod snip of a deleted post>

Glensman, in fairness to 5rdmag, I'd say his dig (and I'm only assuming here) was more at the NASRPC for running a competition outside of their bailiwick, in another organisations "sphere of influence", and calling it a "national competition" - and by "political", it has more to do with shooting politics, rather than the "national question". It's a bit harsh and unfair IMO to be <mod edit>uncivil</mod edit> just because he has an opinion on whether a Republic of Ireland NGB should be holding events in the Republic of Ireland or holding them in Northern Ireland and still calling them a national competition.

By all means, have competitions all over the place, north south east or west, but if you're going to call it a national competition, you should really be the NGB for the sport in the region you are holding the "national" competition in.

As the NASPRC's own constitution (Jan 2011) states that: "The Association (i.e. the NASRPC) shall be the sole body representing competitive sporting rifle and pistol shooting in Ireland" - Now.... I can only assume by "Ireland" in this case they mean the Republic of Ireland, as they cannot really claim to be either the smallbore pistol NGB for NI (which AFAIK is the bailiwick of the NITSA and/or the NSRA) and the WA1500 NGB for NI (which AFAIK is also the bailiwick of the NITSA and/or WA1500 Northern Ireland, which from what I can tell is an integral part or branch of NITSA).

I may be entirely wrong about all this and will happily stand corrected, but it would be a bit like the BDMP holding a "national" F-class competition in the 26 counties bit of the island of Ireland, which would be in the internationally recognised bailiwick of the NRAI as far as F-Class in the Republic of Ireland is concerned - likewise the NASRPC holding a "national" competition north of the border.

Regardless of the "national politics" and the whys-and-wherefores of partition (which are in this case and IMvHO irrelevant to the particular matter of this thread), the NASRPC are not (AFAIK) the NGB for pistol shooting in Northern Ireland, anymore than NITSA are the NGB for pistol shooting in the Republic of Ireland.

And, For the Record, none of what I have posted is intended as a "political statement" of any kind and please do not misconstrue my intentions behind this post. If any offence is taken, I apologise in advance, but assure you that none is intended.

Dr_Teeth

Grizzly, 5rdmag's post was in relation to a normal national match, where we shoot T&P, GP40, Multi-target etc with pistol and gallery rifle. There are lots of these matches scheduled this year for you to come to and compete with your centre-fire pistol. They are the matches in green writing on the calendar.

The matches in blue writing are the international matches, and are obviously not run by the NASRPC. The WA1500 matches you're talking about in Newry, are run by NITSA.

I agree it would be great if more full official WA1500 main match competitions were happening this year here in the Republic, perhaps you should talk to the NASRPC guys about it. Personally I reckon it's down to the fact that very few people have their center-fire pistols back yet.

Glensman

dCorbus wrote: »

Yo, grizz, nought to do with the NTSA - Shurely, you mean the NASRPC? Aren't they the WA1500 reps around these here parts?:D



+1 on that.

I made a similar point a while back (which was totally misunderstood and misinterpreted by many, as I understand it, and thus accordingly modded out of existence - but which was meant with the best intentions and without any malice or "politic" slant).

BTW anyone planning to get up to the shoot in BPC, who doesn't already have an NI Visitors permit, better get their skates on - it's less than 3 weeks away and the permits can sometimes take a bit longer than that to recieve.



Glensman, in fairness to 5rdmag, I'd say his dig (and I'm only assuming here) was more at the NASRPC for running a competition outside of their bailiwick, in another organisations "sphere of influence", and calling it a "national competition" - and by "political", it has more to do with shooting politics, rather than the "national question". It's a bit harsh and unfair IMO to be <mod edit>uncivil</mod edit> just because he has an opinion on whether a Republic of Ireland NGB should be holding events in the Republic of Ireland or holding them in Northern Ireland and still calling them a national competition.

By all means, have competitions all over the place, north south east or west, but if you're going to call it a national competition, you should really be the NGB for the sport in the region you are holding the "national" competition in.

As the NASPRC's own constitution (Jan 2011) states that: "The Association (i.e. the NASRPC) shall be the sole body representing competitive sporting rifle and pistol shooting in Ireland" - Now.... I can only assume by "Ireland" in this case they mean the Republic of Ireland, as they cannot really claim to be either the smallbore pistol NGB for NI (which AFAIK is the bailiwick of the NITSA and/or the NSRA) and the WA1500 NGB for NI (which AFAIK is also the bailiwick of the NITSA and/or WA1500 Northern Ireland, which from what I can tell is an integral part or branch of NITSA).

I may be entirely wrong about all this and will happily stand corrected, but it would be a bit like the BDMP holding a "national" F-class competition in the 26 counties bit of the island of Ireland, which would be in the internationally recognised bailiwick of the NRAI as far as F-Class in the Republic of Ireland is concerned - likewise the NASRPC holding a "national" competition north of the border.

Regardless of the "national politics" and the whys-and-wherefores of partition (which are in this case and IMvHO irrelevant to the particular matter of this thread), the NASRPC are not (AFAIK) the NGB for pistol shooting in Northern Ireland, anymore than NITSA are the NGB for pistol shooting in the Republic of Ireland.

And, For the Record, none of what I have posted is intended as a "political statement" of any kind and please do not misconstrue my intentions behind this post. If any offence is taken, I apologise in advance, but assure you that none is intended.

If the OP had have phrased it closer to the way that you have then perhaps he would not have cause offence.

Your explanation of different governing bodies was a help to me as I am not in to target shooting and wouldn't have known the facts stated above.
As far as national chamionships go, the nation is all 32 counties. The 2 entities north and south of the border are States, not nations.
And as regards the term 'Ireland'. The same applies, I say this from a legal perspective (also personal, but that is of no consequence for this discussion).

It does seem strange BTW that So many of the cometitions are in Newry, a short drive from Dublin- but not from everywhere!

Sparks

Glensman wrote: »

As far as national chamionships go, the nation is all 32 counties. The 2 entities north and south of the border are States, not nations.

That's not how it's worked in the past though. Some associations (like the NTSA and ICPSA) have always been explicitly 32-county bodies and the NTSA has run national championships up North before; but the NASRPC was a 26-county body as far back as I can recall, as were many others because most NGB's area of responsibility ended at the state border. Even in the NTSA's case, while selection for national teams could happen over all 32 counties, and while several N.Ireland clubs are affiliated to the NTSA, it was always considered that N.Ireland was a rather odd gray area because the NSRA had equal NGB status with the NTSA there. So it's an unusual enough situation to make the question legitimate, if indelicately phrased.

Bananaman

This thread has left a sour taste in my mouth.

You people seem to forget what target shooting is about - the hint is in the name - shooting.

It is not about politics or where you are from or what club you are a member of (unless you win) or what country you are from (unless you are lucky enough to make the national teams) - I seriously get the impression from threads like this (I know, I know, it is not in any way representative of the real world) that people are so focused on the politics they have lost sight of why we are in the sport.

Sending lead downrange and making small little holes in paper targets.

I have shot in oodles of ranges all over the republic and the north.
Twenty years ago if someone told me I would be attending shooting matches in Northern Ireland I would have taken their sharp toys away - but I do it at least a half dozen times a year and will now be able to do it even more.

I, for one, look upon this as yet another opportunity to do what I like to do.

Shoot.

The rest of you should also.

B'Man

NASRPC: Nigel

Bracken Projectile Club are a member of the NASRPC, have been for over a year, have had their members travel to other NASRPC competitions and other events and have requested that NASRPC hold a National competition at their range and their request is being fulfilled.

On the question of counties. NASRPC has already held three events in two counties this year. We currently have a further twelve or thirteen events pencilled in across a further ten or eleven counties this year alone.
That is probably enough for now. However, as more and more clubs join the NASRPC and request that we hold National matches or other events in their facilities I have no doubt that will grow.

NITSA is not a member of the NASRPC so I will not comment on their behalf.
We have a good relationship and that is why we advertised their competitions on our Calendar.
If you have any questions with respect to NITSA or their events I would recommend that you contact them directly via www.nitsa.org.uk.

We have offered the same facility to many other groups to publicise their events via the combined shooting calendar to help people identify what is on when.
If you have events that you would like included then please contact webmaster@nasrpc.ie.

If you are interested in other NASRPC events you can keep abreast of them by keeping an eye on the NASRPC calendar or by emailing competitions@NASRPC.ie with your queries.

As competitions and events are coming up we will continue to advertise them through a number of mediums, one of which is the Upcoming Events thread in the target shooting forum here on boards.

I hope that is clear.

Sparks

In other words, it's not a National Championships, it's an Open National-level competition and this is down to a communications error?

Grizzly 45

Dr_Teeth wrote: »

Grizzly, 5rdmag's post was in relation to a normal national match, where we shoot T&P, GP40, Multi-target etc with pistol and gallery rifle. There are lots of these matches scheduled this year for you to come to and compete with your centre-fire pistol. They are the matches in green writing on the calendar.

The matches in blue writing are the international matches, and are obviously not run by the NASRPC. The WA1500 matches you're talking about in Newry, are run by NITSA.

I agree it would be great if more full official WA1500 main match competitions were happening this year here in the Republic, perhaps you should talk to the NASRPC guys about it. Personally I reckon it's down to the fact that very few people have their center-fire pistols back yet.

Thanks Doc,that clears up a lot.
One of the problems of the "alphabet soup" of organisations in the Irish shooting community is easy for anyone without Sparks's handy and easily understood organisational chart:D could get a tad confused as who is running what and where.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

This thread has left a sour taste in my mouth.
You people seem to forget what target shooting is about - the hint is in the name - shooting.

B'man, that's not only uncalled for and unhelpful, but actively made the situation worse.
Someone read the announcement, misinterpreted it (which, bluntly, was easy enough to do), and asked what was a legitimate question based on what they'd read. You could have just said "No, it's just an Open, not a Nationals" (side note: that's precisely why other bodies use those two terms for national-level competitions and their national championship competitions). One sentence and it would have been sorted and put to bed. Instead, you went on a diatribe.

That -- ie. not being focused on the end result -- is one of the main causes of all our internal politics, and it's something we've all done at some point. It'd be nicer if it stopped though.

If you just want to shoot, you wouldn't ever bother coming in here. If you're here, it's because you also like to talk about shooting, or read about it. There's nothing wrong with that, but if you're going to do it, to paraphrase B'man,

Communicate.

Bananaman

Jaysus - I never knew you could split the same hair so many times.

I have just re-read that match notice and it states:

The National Association of Sporting Rifle & Pistol Clubs
will hold a National Competition in

Bracken Projectile Club, Strabane, Co. Tyrone
on Saturday 26th March 2011

and

All NASRPC Competitions are Open Competitions.

and

All Events will count towards the 2011 NASRPC National Championships.

Seems clear to me - but them I'm not looking for one of Nostradamus' predictions in it.

B'Man

Sparks

Again, you're just making it worse B'man. I'm not the one who misread the notice or asked the question. I'm just pointing out that a single sentence would have solved this far better than what was posted.

NASRPC: Nigel

Sparks wrote: »

I'm not the one who misread the notice or asked the question. I'm just pointing out that a single sentence would have solved this far better than what was posted.

I believe you are correct

5rdmag wrote: »

Why are the NASRPC holding our National Pistol Shooting Competition in Northern Ireland, United Kingdom. Why not hold it in the Republic of Ireland where all the clubs that it is meant to represent reside and where their membership are based??

Why does a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, with a certified firearm have to apply to a foreign state for a visitors permit to participate in their own National Championships in a foreign country??

There are many clubs throughout the Republic with suitable facilities were our own licenced pistol shooters would be able to attend...again, I ask why??.....

NASRPC hold many events, in a wide array of shooting disciplines, in ranges all over Ireland throughout the year. This is only one of those events.

Last year we held fourteen competitions throughout Ireland in nine different venues, culminating in the NASRPC National Championships at the end of the year. We did not host any matches in Northern Ireland last year, even though we had a request for one, the calendar was far too full already.

This year there will not be quite so many, primarily due to a limit on peoples time but also due to the large number of major international competitions this year in which Irish Competitors will be participating. There will still be in the region of twelve Competitions, one of which will be in Northern Ireland.

Each National Competition is a competition in its own right.

There will be many competitions in each discipline and a subset of each competitors results from the overall e.g. best 3 from 5 results in a given discipline, will count towards the qualifications for the National Championships.

This is because we understand that we cannot reasonably expect people from Kerry to travel to Tyrone or for people from Sligo to travel to Cork or people from Mayo to travel to Wicklow every time we schedule a match. They often do but you cannot reasonably require them to, so everyone has an opportunity to miss some of the events and still be in the running for the National Championships.

Bracken may be a long way for people from Cork or Kerry but it is not so far for our affiliates and others from the rest of Northern Ireland, Donegal, Sligo, Louth, etc.

Bracken are a member of the NASRPC so have as much right to host a National Competition as any other member.

I hope that clarifies the OPs questions and would like to thank Sparks for highlighting that they had not been answered specifically.

derek_g34

I dont know about the rest of you guys, but nothing gives me greater pleasure than travelling to a range I've never been to before, whether it be at home or abroad. I met a couple of the Bracken lads at two different training courses I attended in the last couple of months. You couldn't meet two nicer fellas, and not once did either of them try to have a row with me over shooting politics...we could learn a lot from them.

So it's NITSA on the 19th, Bracken on the 26th and a Target Pistol Open Day in Harbour House on the 2nd of April, I'll be travelling to them all.

Those of you with centrefire pistols, who dont want to have anything to do with the NASRPC or dont want to travel out of the 26 counties, it must be a very empty competition calendar indeed.

Grizzly 45

Must be nice to have money or an unlimited mileage account.;)
Lucky you to be able to do such!
Some of us are on tight budgets these days,and being able to get to our nearest range just to practise twice a month with the cost of fuel and time is quiet a feat.[Not to mind thinking of doing a "road warrior" trip up to NI and back.Or ammo costs for that matter]

Its the personal finances,not the unwillingness to go I would say with many these days.:(

@NASRPC Nigel.
Any chance then of some dates when the competitions will be for the WA1500 and where ?

derek_g34

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Must be nice to have money or an unlimited mileage account.;)
Lucky you to be able to do such!
Some of us are on tight budgets these days,and being able to get to our nearest range just to practise twice a month with the cost of fuel and time is quiet a feat.[Not to mind thinking of doing a "road warrior" trip up to NI and back.Or ammo costs for that matter]

Its the personal finances,not the unwillingness to go I would say with many these days.:(

@NASRPC Nigel.
Any chance then of some dates when the competitions will be for the WA1500 and where ?

How many shooters can you fit in a company car that comes with a company fuel card?:D

Tackleberrywho

derek_g34 wrote: »

How many shooters can you fit in a company car that comes with a company fuel card?:D

I could do with one of these Fuel cards!

€87 for a fill of Diesel yesterday:eek:

If I want to travel cheaply I take the bike, but can't bring the Pistol then!
Vicious circle.

Also not all of us have Every weekend off.
I have not been scheduled off for a full weekend in 9 years:(

Glensman

derek_g34 wrote: »

How many shooters can you fit in a company car that comes with a company fuel card?:D

There ye go lads. Get yourselves as far as the Curragh and you've a lift up!

NASRPC: Nigel

At the moment we have no confirmed sanctioned WA1500 shoots.

if you send an email to competitions@NASRPC.ie to let us know of your interest we will be able to let you know when that changes.

Grizzly 45

derek_g34 wrote: »

How many shooters can you fit in a company car that comes with a company fuel card?:D

Better be a BIG car,if everyone takes you up on the offer!:D

clivej

derek_g34 wrote: »

How many shooters can you fit in a company car that comes with a company fuel card?:D

Glensman wrote: »

There ye go lads. Get yourselves as far as the Curragh and you've a lift up!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Better be a BIG car,if everyone takes you up on the offer!:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5RI30RJIPk

Grizzly 45

Thats a rave from the Grave...Havent seen or heard that one in years!:D

EastTyrone

such an attitude to have, i know trhere are alot of barriers etc, but the north is part of ireland too!

Sparks

Not in the eyes of those we have to get our licence paperwork from. Which isn't to say we don't go to matches up there.

However, this thread has run its course and before it descends into another round of arguing over state lines (we already have the Politics forum for that), I'm closing it.