Are the Irish living in dream world?

MaybeI

Well, what is more realistic, 35k a british seller is asking for or the 170k were currently asking for? Some of the differences are astounding.

So, I ask are we living in dream world? Maybe nothing is selling for a reason, we're aiming miles too high with prices in this current market.

Maybe the market is broken due to the fact most people view house prices = their wealth, and they can't admit they've gone so low?

PROPERTY OWNERS and auctioneers alike may well choke on their porridge this morning when they see that house prices have dropped even further overnight.

The news comes with the publication of the catalogue of Ireland’s first sale of distressed property to be held by British auctioneer Allsops, which specialises in selling properties held by banks, receivers and homeowners needing to sell quickly.

The cheapest property being put on the block is a two-bedroom tenanted apartment in Portlaoise with a top reserve of €35,000. A similar apartment in the same development, Bridle Walk, is listed for sale elsewhere at €170,000.

In Rathfarnham, a two-bedroom penthouse has a maximum reserve of €145,000 in the Allsops auction. A two-bedroom ground-floor unit in the same scheme is listed on myhome.ie for €275,000.

More than 80 properties in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway will be offered at the auction in the Shelbourne Hotel on April 15th, which is being organised by Dublin estate agent Stephen McCarthy of Space, in alliance with Allsop, one of the largest auction houses in Britain.

Details will be available from both companies’ websites tomorrow morning.

Each property carries a maximum reserve price. However, according to McCarthy, the actual reserve prices may well be less on the day, depending on demand. However, the reserve set nearer or on the day will not exceed the published maximum reserves.

Details of properties seen by The Irish Times show these maximum reserves are well below current asking prices for similar homes.

A detached four-bedroom house on a large site in Churchtown, close to Milltown Golf Course, has a maximum reserve of €400,000 – less than three-bedroom homes are making nearby.

A large mews house on a laneway in Ballsbridge has a maximum reserve of €600,000. While there is no similar home for sale nearby, refurbished homes of a similar size in the neighbourhood have been trading around the €1 million mark.

In Temple Bar, a studio apartment on Essex Street has a maximum reserve of €80,000, a price likely to strike fear into the heart of investors with property in the area where slightly larger units trade for upwards of €140,000.

The prices are likely to shock estate agents trying to shift property in a dormant market. However, Mr McCarthy said the auction would benefit the property trade by establishing a floor from which people could build.

chin_grin

So the elections over. Back to rabbling about property? Great!

Fratton Fred

There is definitely some head in the clouds stuff going on. I enquired about one of a pair of new properties near me, the response I got made me explain that I was only interested in buying one, not both.

Even for the pair this guy is asking too much, yet he can't understand why they have been on the market for 9 months. He has them up for rent now at €2,000 more than he should.

Daegerty

Not so much "Irish living in a dream world" just a lot of people selling houses still think they're worth something near celtic tiger prices.

Or else they are still waiting for things to get better. Its not unexpected that the change in mentality takes a couple of years to come about.

For about 20 years in Ireland a price was a thing that only ever went up.

Dravokivich

170k... still too expensive...

Fratton Fred

The estate agents get off far too lightly. They were as guilty as the banks and developers in bankrupting this country. They exploited the system in this country to constantly drive prices up, they then played a part in stifling the bad news people like David McWilliams were giving. They even went as far as giving bogus financial advice, claiming the ecb was going to cut rates, driving prices up further and people had to buy now. This was when northern rock went tits up and the market was about to crash.

Estate agents are witches......burn them!

123balltv

those days are long gone

my neighbour after 3 years is still holding out for top dollar for her house
she'll never get the same money she paid for it
she's going to have to face it houses are just bricks and water now

MaybeI

I hate to use names but that Morgan Kelly article is so true in parts it's frightening. 35k is not far off people buying houses and handing over cash :eek:

pragmatic1

Anyone could see that a tiny two bedroom flat in Dublin isnt worth 200,000 never mind 500,000. Maybe we needed this crash to mature as a nation.

Seaneh

yes. They are. The market isn't even close to booming out... I reckon its about halfway there. Eventually people will realise their 280K 4 bed Semi-D is only actually worth about 80K at most, and when that happens and they realise the lunacy in continuing to pay a 20 odd year mortgage they will start cutting their losses and walking away from the houses, writing off the 5/6 years they have paid already and start renting again for less than half their mortgage.
Its happening in a lot of states in the US where people have realised their houses are never going to be worth what they paid for them and then if they cut their losses and start saving again they will be able to buy a better house for less than 1/3rd the price in a couple of years and still end up saving a **** ton of money in the long run.


If that starts happening here. We are really screwed and we now own the stupid mortgage debts because of government policy to nationalise the banks.

biko

From After Hours

Cool Mo D

MaybeI wrote: »

Well, what is more realistic, 35k a british seller is asking for or the 170k were currently asking for? Some of the differences are astounding.

So, I ask are we living in dream world? Maybe nothing is selling for a reason, we're aiming miles too high with prices in this current market.

Maybe the market is broken due to the fact most people view house prices = their wealth, and they can't admit they've gone so low?

They are not asking for 35k. 35k is the reserve for the auction. Very very different. Most likely they are setting an eye-catching reserve to get as many people interested, to get the best possible price. The company are interested in selling for the highest price they can get, not trying to show how cheap they can go.

tanyabond

The houses might be bricks and water, but the land is still worth a lot of money! Like here for instance (listed yesterday morning) - http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=580429

bobbyg

Cool Mo D wrote: »

They are not asking for 35k. 35k is the reserve for the auction. Very very different. Most likely they are setting an eye-catching reserve to get as many people interested, to get the best possible price. The company are interested in selling for the highest price they can get, not trying to show how cheap they can go.

35k is the TOP reserve, the auctioneer was talking on Matt Cooper yesterday and explained that the top reserve is the max that the property will sell for i.e if someone bids 35k for this property it's theirs!

Dymo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The estate agents get off far too lightly. They were as guilty as the banks and developers in bankrupting this country. They exploited the system in this country to constantly drive prices up,
Estate agents are witches......burn them!

Do you not know what an Estate Agents job is? there job is to get the highest price for the seller. I'm sure if you were selling you would want the same.

Back on topic, people are still living dreamland for some of the prices of property but I think now property that is on the market is by people that have to sell. A bank manager in a small town told me not 1 mortgage was granted this year yet (AIB) so if people aren't getting mortgages it's very difficult to sell houses.

R P McMurphy

MaybeI wrote: »

I hate to use names but that Morgan Kelly article is so true in parts it's frightening. 35k is not far off people buying houses and handing over cash :eek:

Not much different to the price of a very decent car. Maybe we should think outside of the box and combine both and all start living in motor homes (or carvans)

muletide

It seems to me that alot of the dreamers are residing in the Kildare area. I just cannot get my head around the asking prices for 4/5 bed homes in estates in some of the towns.

Some examples:

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=580452

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=580434

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=580196

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=580181

Don't get me wrong these are nice houses but they are just that nice houses- are they really half a million euro houses.

They are basic family (3 kids & 1 dog) homes and yet they command almost 20 times the average wage. I really am baffled.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to how they can be worth even 50% of the asking price.

Monty Burnz

muletide wrote: »

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to how they can be worth even 50% of the asking price.

Good luck with that

chillywilly

bobbyg wrote: »

35k is the TOP reserve, the auctioneer was talking on Matt Cooper yesterday and explained that the top reserve is the max that the property will sell for i.e if someone bids 35k for this property it's theirs!

This does not make sense. Why would they put a cap on the price they sell for? If the price doesn't reach 35k then it is not sold. If it goes over 35k then it is. The top reserve is the least it can sell for.

tanyabond

muletide wrote: »

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to how they can be worth even 50% of the asking price.

Maybe time travelling exists? And EA listing those properties just jumped out of 2007?

smk89

muletide wrote: »

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to how they can be worth even 50% of the asking price.

You'd have to get into the mentality of the owners or an estate agent so start by giving yourself a brain injury.

Monty Burnz

chillywilly wrote: »

This does not make sense. Why would they put a cap on the price they sell for? If the price doesn't reach 35k then it is not sold. If it goes over 35k then it is. The top reserve is the least it can sell for.

What they are saying is that the price goes to that, then it will definitely sell. The actual reserve below which it will not sell is not disclosed, but is lower than the top reserve.

chillywilly

Monty Burnz wrote: »

What they are saying is that the price goes to that, then it will definitely sell. The actual reserve below which it will not sell is not disclosed, but is lower than the top reserve.

Yes that makes sense but what bobbyg said was that 35k was the max it will sell for. Thats incorrect, 35k in the minimum it can sell for(or close due to lower unknown reserve).

brianthebard

smk89 wrote: »

You'd have to get into the mentality of the owners or an estate agent so start by giving yourself a brain injury.

absolute lolz, brilliant.

bobbyg

chillywilly wrote: »

This does not make sense. Why would they put a cap on the price they sell for? If the price doesn't reach 35k then it is not sold. If it goes over 35k then it is. The top reserve is the least it can sell for.

I understand how a reserve works but I am just repeating what was said on radio yesterday. I may have misinterpreted it but he clearly said that this was a TOP reserve and that prices would not go above these reserve prices.

have a listen, like i said maybe I misinterpreted it.

http://audiostore.todayfm.com/player/thursday.html

quozl

bobbyg wrote: »

I understand how a reserve works but I am just repeating what was said on radio yesterday. I may have misinterpreted it but he clearly said that this was a TOP reserve and that prices would not go above these reserve prices.

It's confusing terminology but they don't mean what you think they do.

What that top reserve means is that that is the highest figure that the reserve can be set at. The reserve may be set lower on the day depending on what they think their best interests are, but it will not be above that value.

That doesn't mean the property can't sell for significantly above that value.

I wonder if they're deliberately trying to be misleading?

Fighting Irish

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The estate agents get off far too lightly. They were as guilty as the banks and developers in bankrupting this country. They exploited the system in this country to constantly drive prices up, they then played a part in stifling the bad news people like David McWilliams were giving. They even went as far as giving bogus financial advice, claiming the ecb was going to cut rates, driving prices up further and people had to buy now. This was when northern rock went tits up and the market was about to crash.

Estate agents are witches......burn them!

The banks/government/developers/auctioneers made me overspend on my house!!!!!!11

bobbyg

quozl wrote: »

It's confusing terminology but they don't mean what you think they do.

What that top reserve means is that that is the highest figure that the reserve can be set at. The reserve may be set lower on the day depending on what they think their best interests are, but it will not be above that value.

That doesn't mean the property can't sell for significantly above that value.

I wonder if they're deliberately trying to be misleading?

Sorry this is from their website, maybe I was wrong.

Allsop Announce First Irish Auction on 15th April at the Shelbourne Hotel, Dublin
In a fresh approach to buying and selling property, Ireland’s first distressed multi lot property auction will take place on 15th April at the Shelbourne Hotel, Dublin.
The auction will be held by Allsop and Space, an established real estate consultancy in Dublin. Their aim is to deliver to buyers a transparent forum within which bidders determine the value of property and are not dictated to by sellers who are clinging on to over optimistic and historic price aspirations.
Space approached Allsop last year with the objective of taking a renewed approach to the stagnation in the Irish property market. The collaboration combines Spaces’ knowledge and understanding of the Irish market with Allsop’s expertise and resources for holding successful multi lot property auctions.
The sale will comprise of over 80 lots from across the country including Dublin, the Midlands, South and South-East on behalf of a variety of receivers. All properties are distressed and will comprise predominantly residential stock but also some commercial and mixed use buildings. There is a combination of vacant and let property to appeal to all types of buyers.
Some of the properties on offer will have been offered by private treaty at much higher prices since the peak. For example, a modern three bedroom, two bathroom apartment in a prestigious central Dublin block was formerly on the market for over €900,000 (around £760,000). The maximum disclosed reserve is €220,000 (around £200,000).
"Nobody likes to buy assets in a market that they perceive to be uncertain" says Stephen McCarthy of Space. "This has been a real obstacle to renewed activity. And it's been compounded by the fact that many private sellers have been obstinately asking prices that are clearly historic and over optimistic. It's been very difficult to say what a property is actually worth in Ireland today.
We're now offering buyers a refreshing opportunity to set prices themselves. The room will determine value through competitive bidding, which subsequently could offer crucial benchmarking to the market to establish where property values really are at the moment"
Bidders are anticipated to range from first time buyers, who have been unwilling to make their first purchase in an uncertain market, to seasoned investors seeking opportunity from rental returns.
Historically, auctions have generally been confined to small or single lot sales. Due to the rise in popularity in websites such as EBay and the real need for change in the Irish property market, the auction route is becoming an increasingly popular method of sale. The auctioneers expect strong interest from both Irish and overseas buyers who are keen to see movement with competitively priced lots acting as catalysts.
In a departure from the UK practice of quoting guide price ranges for each lot prior to auction (indicating the band of figures within which the vendor is likely to set the reserve price), the Irish sale will publish a maximum reserve price. The ultimate figure will not exceed, and may be lower than, the amount quoted."It delivers a very clear message to newcomer buyers" says Gary Murphy, partner and auctioneer at Allsop. "We want bidders to appreciate immediately that, if they can afford to bid the disclosed maximum, then, provided of course that the bidding does not go higher, the hammer will fall and the property will be theirs. It's that transparent".If successful, Allsop Space will bring further distressed stock to market at increasingly larger auction sales in Dublin with a further two auctions planned for this year, dates to be confirmed.
"It's been an exciting project to develop" says Murphy. "If the sale goes as well as we hope, we are confident that many of the other banks and receivers to whom we've been speaking, will also want to play a large part in future sales."
The catalogue will be available in print and on line from Saturday 5 March.
Allsop's Murphy said "We shall be marketing to both Irish and UK buyers. The launch of the Dublin catalogue will coincide with the publication of our 29 and 31 March UK brochure, from which Ireland will also be promoted. Our clients will benefit from Allsop’s online database of 220,000 registered buyers".
Buyers will be able to bid on the day from the auction room itself or by phone, by proxy or by internet. All properties will be available for viewing prior to auction, those bidding must have their finance in place, with a 10% deposit payable on the day.
Further information about the auction is available by phone on 01 676 2033. Printed and online catalogues are available will be available from 4th March.

gigino

Its misleading , just like many auctioneers were during the tiger years.
No wonder many people hate estate agents.

A max reserve is still a reserve. Of course if someone bids higher than the reserve they will take that.s

smk89

gigino wrote: »

Its misleading , just like many auctioneers were during the tiger years.
No wonder many people hate estate agents.

A max reserve is still a reserve. Of course if someone bids higher than the reserve they will take that.s

It may be misleading, but it made the front page of the Irish Times and probably the main conversation of their readers today.
Its a great marketing strategy.

Senna

smk89 wrote: »

Its a great marketing strategy.

....aimed at stupid people.
Its a reserve, they set it low to create interest, then hope the bidding go much higher. They done it in a auction in Donegal last year. Advertised the reserve at 80k (4 bed detached house), create huge interest and a large crowd for the auction, in the end it sold for 140k, not far off what it would have been advertised for anyway.