Are teachers allowed to touch students ?

smilgy

Hypothetical question, are teachers legally allowed to touch a student ? Example of a situation would be a student gets in a row with the teacher and if he was about to storm out, and the teacher tried to stop him/her, would that be considered ok or could the teacher get in trouble for it if reported ?

rainbowtrout

I think the whole concept of touching a student is complicated. Obviously a teacher can't hit a student etc, but if I'm in a science lab and something goes wrong I may have to pull a student out of the way of a dangerous situation. That in my opinion is OK. It's for the safety of a student.

I can give you an example that happened in my science class only a couple of months ago. My students were working with acid and boiling water and various other chemicals. I was helping one group when I heard a scream and saw a student (first year) crying and screaming that her back was burning, I could see her jumper was wet, but I didn't know what was on her jumper, I assumed that it was water because I had not left the students have the acids or bases on their benches. They were also cleaning up at this stage so there wasn't much in the way of anything dangerous left on the benches. But I couldn't take the risk that one of them hadn't moved some or spilt a test tube by accident. I had to pull the jumper off her so it didn't touch her face and then pull her into the prep room and pull her shirt off her as that was wet too. Prep room as it was a mixed class and she would have preferred to stand there burning than have the boys see her without a shirt - i can understand her dilemma. Another (female) teacher came in from the adjoining lab to help and we got her sorted out with dry clothes and calmed her down.

Anyway as it turned out it was warm water and there was no harm done and she just got a fright, she was leaning with her back to a bench and a student knocked over a beaker of warm water while cleaning and it got the back of her jumper but I couldn't take the chance. A situation like that leaves a teacher without much choice other than to touch a student but only for their own safety.

In the situation you describe, if a student had some sort of row with me, and tried to leave the class, I would stand in front of the door. In that case they would have to push me out of the way to leave the room. No more than it is not acceptable for a teacher to touch a student in an aggressive way, it's not acceptable for a student to touch a teacher. I think in that situation a student will back down. If they don't, well then they are going to land themselves in a lot of trouble if they push a teacher out of the way, and if they managed to leave the classroom without permission I wouldn't physically prevent them, I would just take out my phone and ring down to the principal/deputy principal and get him on the case. I couldn't leave my class anyway as they are supposed to be under my supervision and even more so if it was a practical class.

Another situation in a practical class a while back. Students again working with acids, student is cleaning up after an experiment, is wearing gloves and goggles. Despite repeated warnings throughout the class scratches his cheek while still wearing the gloves which had traces of acid on them. Tells me a few minutes later that his cheek is stinging and hurts and then I have to question him to find out why and I figure out what happens, I then have to hold his head under running water to take the sting out of the burn and then give him a cloth to tend to his cheek himself but monitoring him the whole time.

Again I'm acting in the student's best interests and there is nothing untoward going on.

Teachers will only have physical contact with students where absolutely necessary, like in situations described above. I don't think any teacher would physically restrain a student if they tried to leave a class, they would just approach it from another angle.

Aoifey!

In your situation I would say above is about right. I remember when I was in 3rd year I very troublesome student tried to storm out of class shouting and screaming. The teacher stood in front of the door, but did not touch her, the student then got around the teacher (sort of side stepping til she got the room to get passed her). At the time I didn't think about it, but the teacher did not touch her once, which would have been hard to do as she was being very unreasonable and I'd be tempted to pull her back into the classroom. She then went and got the principal.

rainbowtrout

Aoifey! wrote: »

In your situation I would say above is about right. I remember when I was in 3rd year I very troublesome student tried to storm out of class shouting and screaming. The teacher stood in front of the door, but did not touch her, the student then got around the teacher (sort of side stepping til she got the room to get passed her). At the time I didn't think about it, but the teacher did not touch her once, which would have been hard to do as she was being very unreasonable and I'd be tempted to pull her back into the classroom. She then went and got the principal.

Yes, that's essentially what is likely to happen, because if we did try and stop a student by physical means if they are the type of student where it has gotten past the shouting and screaming and they are attempting to storm out you can be sure that they will also be screaming assault if you lay a finger on them, even though you were not attempting to assault them only to restrain them, so it's not worth it.

PJelly

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I heard a scream and saw a student (first year) crying and screaming that her back was burning.... anyway as it turned out it was warm water and there was no harm done and she just got a fright,

student is cleaning up after an experiment, is wearing gloves and goggles. Despite repeated warnings throughout the class scratches his cheek while still wearing the gloves which had traces of acid on them. Tells me a few minutes later that his cheek is stinging and hurts

My, you do have the jumpiest, most attentive students don't you

randylonghorn

PJelly wrote: »

My, you do have the jumpiest, most attentive students don't you

Doesn't sound like it to me.

A first year slightly panicky in an unfamiliar lab environment, someone subconsciously scratching his cheek despite consciously knowing he shouldn't?

If that's the worst a science teacher sees in her years of teaching, sounds like she's in a very tame school tbh.

John Sugrue

Thanks for this thread. I hope to be starting the PGDE in September. Stuff liek this is nice to know. I suppose another angle would be if a student was behaving particularly dangerously and the teacher felt the safety of other pupils was at risk...

partyatmygaff

John Sugrue wrote: »

Thanks for this thread. I hope to be starting the PGDE in September. Stuff liek this is nice to know. I suppose another angle would be if a student was behaving particularly dangerously and the teacher felt the safety of other pupils was at risk...

Hmm let's imagine a situation...

A student with a beaker or concentrated sulfuric acid or sodium/potassium dichromate crystals threatening someone in the class. That would be the ultimate question really. Should the teacher intervene and risk severe injury or worse death or should they find a way to peaceably defuse the situation?

rainbowtrout

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Hmm let's imagine a situation...

A student with a beaker or concentrated sulfuric acid or sodium/potassium dichromate crystals threatening someone in the class. That would be the ultimate question really. Should the teacher intervene and risk severe injury or worse death or should they find a way to peaceably diffuse the situation?

I reckon it's pretty impossible to say, there are so many different factors you could bring into the situation you have just described. Gut feeling suggests that I should try to do something, I have a duty of care to my students.

But as I said you could have so many different things going on in a lab in that situation: has the student just flipped instantly? do they have a history of dangerous behaviour? are they normally reasonable and likely to respond to a peaceful way of diffusing the situation? are they at the end of the lab where they could have thrown it at someone before you even get the chance to intervene?

And of course as you mentioned do you intervene at the risk of severe injury yourself?

To be honest if you had a student that was likely to create a situation like that they would have probably been long banned from participating in practical activities

partyatmygaff

rainbowtrout wrote: »

To be honest if you had a student that was likely to create a situation like that they would have probably been long banned from participating in practical activities

Not always. An old Engineering teacher of mine said he witnessed an event where a normally very reasonable and quiet guy threw a hammer at someone across a class. For the purposes of my earlier question...

The person in question has a history of being a reasonable and very normal person but seems to have a moment of insanity and is threatening someone else with either of the two chemicals I mentioned earlier. The person's classmates are attempting to get them to see sense and then the person goes on to threaten the rest of their classmates as well.

You're only wearing gloves, goggles and perhaps a lab coat with your face entirely exposed. The "heroic" thing to do would be to distract and then physically restrain the person in question at the risk of getting either permanently disfigured, killed or even sued for assault. What should or could a teacher do in such a situation?



Just in case people are unaware of the hazards of the two chemicals I mentioned...

Concentrated sulfuric acid causes severe permanent disfigurement and damages skin and almost all organic matter.

Dichromate salts such as potassium dichromate and sodium dichromate are powerful oxidisers and are class 1 carcinogens.

spurious

Ideally, get yourself and the other students out of the room and call for help.

techieteacher

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Hmm let's imagine a situation...

A student with a beaker or concentrated sulfuric acid or sodium/potassium dichromate crystals threatening someone in the class. That would be the ultimate question really. Should the teacher intervene and risk severe injury or worse death or should they find a way to peaceably defuse the situation?

These are the things they don't teach you in college!

seriouslysweet

I saw a student hit a teacher in our school with the door on purpose and then claim the teacher hit him, we were not listened to when we tried to explain what had happened. I've never seen a teacher touch a student...

deise go deo

Common sense really applies,
It is a particular issue in primary schools where the child may need to be comforted in some way or may initiate contact themselves. In secondary this is less of a problem.

Really, if you don't have a reason to, don't, if you do, then is it justifiable, if yes then there shouldn't be a problem, if not then don't.

Art Teacher

smilgy wrote: »

Hypothetical question, are teachers legally allowed to touch a student ? Example of a situation would be a student gets in a row with the teacher and if he was about to storm out, and the teacher tried to stop him/her, would that be considered ok or could the teacher get in trouble for it if reported ?

Students are not allowed to storm out of the room. Its a safety risk for them to do so - student should be under the supervision of his/her teacher. It would not normally be right for a teacher to use forceful restraint on a student but in this instance If the teacher caught the student by the elbow and said - stop dont go ! _ Legally, there would be nothing really wrong with this - although as an experienced teacher i would not touch this student because I reckon the type of student that would row and storm out would be the type to claim assault.

As far as I know, restrain techniques have been taught in the last few years to teachers in Northern Ireland for situations in certain schools. About 10 years ago I went for an interview to teach in post primary school in a detention centre. I was asked would i be prepared to learn restraint techniques and declined.

NnaYllek

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Hmm let's imagine a situation...

A student with a beaker or concentrated sulfuric acid or sodium/potassium dichromate crystals threatening someone in the class. That would be the ultimate question really. Should the teacher intervene and risk severe injury or worse death or should they find a way to peaceably defuse the situation?

Neither, run out of the classroom and hide The students will be grand dealing with the mad one on their own!

Fyi that was all a joke

FISMA

smilgy wrote: »

Hypothetical question, are teachers legally allowed to touch a student ? Example of a situation would be a student gets in a row with the teacher and if he was about to storm out, and the teacher tried to stop him/her, would that be considered ok or could the teacher get in trouble for it if reported ?

Why do you ask?