Filing tax returns for U.S while still living in Ireland

Aprilmay

Hi I was woulding if anyone can give me advice about completing my tax returns for the U.S. I have activated my greencard in September 2010 - but myself, husband and kids won't be moving until the summer June/July.We all got our greencards but don't have any SSN yet, will this be a problem filling out the tax forms? My husband may be going out to start a job at the begining of April but the date is not yet confirmed. I really just want to have the taxes done before we travel over. Is the form the 1040 we have to complete? Has anyone had experience in completing their taxes before they actually make the move without having a SSN? Any advice ?

lonestargirl

I'm pretty sure you need a SSN to do tax returns, you definitely need them for claiming dependents (if I recall correctly you have a child). Last year I filed with an ITIN but you can only get one of these if you are not entitled to a SSN.

Under the US citizen services section of the US embassy in Dublin they have a section for applying for a SSN. It's worth contacting them to see if, as a greencard holder, they will process your application there.

avalon68

Are you sure you need to file a return this year - it seems from your post you have not been working there yet, so why would you need to file a return?

lonestargirl

US citizens and greencard holders are taxable on their worldwide income regardless of where it was earned or where they reside.

Aprilmay

lonestargirl wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you need a SSN to do tax returns, you definitely need them for claiming dependents (if I recall correctly you have a child). Last year I filed with an ITIN but you can only get one of these if you are not entitled to a SSN.

Under the US citizen services section of the US embassy in Dublin they have a section for applying for a SSN. It's worth contacting them to see if, as a greencard holder, they will process your application there.

Thanks I will try them because we have the physical greencards but we haven't received our SSN - we know they have to be on file somewhere to do it. I was on the IRS website and we can't get a ITIN because we are entitled to to the SSN and you can't have both. The IRS have a international helpline too I was going to call them for advice too. We have two kids and I know we probably won't have to pay taxes but we just want to do everything correctly.The Embassy here asked us if we wanted our SSN sent to the same address as our cards but they haven't arrived although from what I've heard here from others experience the usually only arrive after you have started working.

lonestargirl

If you ticked the box they should have arrived, I got my newborn's SSN within 2 weeks of his birth recently.

It seems like you may actually have SSNs, you just don't know what they are. Hopefully that section of the embassy may be able to look them up for you.

silja

Did you give a mailing/ intended address in the USA when you did your visa paperwork? SSN probably was sent there (it was for me).

PeakOutput

I need to do my returns for the last year as well but have no idea were to start

can anyone give me a link to site with all the information i will need? im pretty sure i didnt earn enough to have to pay tax but i know i still gotta get a return in and i applied for a greencard this year so if that comes true i want all the taxes to be in order

Aprilmay

silja wrote: »

Did you give a mailing/ intended address in the USA when you did your visa paperwork? SSN probably was sent there (it was for me).

No they haven't arrived to that address, we got our greencards at christmas they were activated last September they were sent to a friends address along with our welcome to the US packs but no SSN.It very strange because we did tick the box and the Dublin embassy said they would be sent there. I'm going to Email the Embassy and explain I'm sure once they know its for tax purposes and I quote my Greencard case number. I don't want to leave it until my husband goes to start his Job in April because it might not be until after the 15th of April. I really don't want any hassle when I'm following with the kids- I will have enough on my mind taxes shouldn't be one of them:rolleyes:

Aprilmay

lonestargirl wrote: »

If you ticked the box they should have arrived, I got my newborn's SSN within 2 weeks of his birth recently.

It seems like you may actually have SSNs, you just don't know what they are. Hopefully that section of the embassy may be able to look them up for you.

Yes thanks for the link we would have SSNs - I'm going to email them on the link and explain the situation- we did tick the box and everything else arrived.

silja

Yeah something must have gone wrong, maybe they got lost in the post. Will never understand why they send SSN and greencards regular mail!

Palmy

Aprilmay,
We are in the exact same postion as you,and entered around the same time frame.We also ticked the box for our ssn to be sent out,but like you we never received them.
Can you keep us posted how you get on with the embassy here as we are in the exact same position and dont want all the drama when we also go back in around july.

Thanks:)

Aprilmay

Contacted the Embassy by phone- they took my details my name-dob -mothers name, fathers name- No SSN issued yet -so he said to just go into the nearest office when go there to stay for good and apply for one then. I think just because we only activated the card when we were there and didn't go into the office to get one issued. I just wonder when we do, will they be sent to the address given on the application form.

Palmy

Yeah, i would say you could just put your new addresss on it instead of using your friends address.
So i take it we dont have to file a tax return for 2010 as we didn't have our ssn issued to us yet.:)

Aprilmay

Palmy wrote: »

Yeah, i would say you could just put your new addresss on it instead of using your friends address.
So i take it we dont have to file a tax return for 2010 as we didn't have our ssn issued to us yet.:)

Well I checked the link for the benefits bureau -and that was the number to call they call issue SSN there but I think its mainly for U.S expats who have children born here.He asked if I was born here or U.S. I also mentioned that I wanted it to pay tax returns and he said I would have to get the number SSN when I go - I kind of said I didn't want be be in trouble with the IRS for taxes and then replied they don't know anything about issues with taxes. So am I to assume that we don't have to file if we don't have the SSN and I'm not likely to have one until after the 15th April- as at the moment we are not on the database

lonestargirl

Palmy wrote: »

So i take it we dont have to file a tax return for 2010 as we didn't have our ssn issued to us yet.:)

As greencard holders you have to file tax returns, the IRS doesn't really care that the SSN office have screwed up in issuing SSNs.

lonestargirl

PeakOutput wrote: »

I need to do my returns for the last year as well but have no idea were to start

can anyone give me a link to site with all the information i will need? im pretty sure i didnt earn enough to have to pay tax but i know i still gotta get a return in and i applied for a greencard this year so if that comes true i want all the taxes to be in order

irs.gov

Basic form is 1040 - the instructions are quite comprehensive.

The first step is to establish if you are tax resident or not (if you are you have to include Irish income too). The non-resident form is 1040NR

If your taxes are straightforward you might be able to do the simplified form 1040EZ

BailMeOut

you can also buy some time by filing for an automatic extension. This gives you until October 2011 to file although you still need your SSN for an extension too.

Aprilmay

lonestargirl wrote: »

irs.gov

Basic form is 1040 - the instructions are quite comprehensive.

The first step is to establish if you are tax resident or not (if you are you have to include Irish income too). The non-resident form is 1040NR

If your taxes are straightforward you might be able to do the simplified form 1040EZ

So which one would apply most in our situation as all our income for the last year was earned in Ireland and nothing in the U.S is it the 1040NR - I wouldn't have a clue how to calculate how much we would owe (if we even owe anything??)

BailMeOut

Aprilmay wrote: »

So which one would apply most in our situation as all our income for the last year was earned in Ireland and nothing in the U.S is it the 1040NR - I wouldn't have a clue how to calculate how much we would owe (if we even owe anything??)

I lived in USA for 16 years and never once attempted to file a tax return myself. I always used an tax accountant in the states.

USA has a tax treaty with Ireland so earnings in Ireland that you paid taxes on in Ireland while resident in Ireland are not supposed to be liable for additional tax in USA. Of course your should get this information confirmed from a proper tax advisor/professional as I am not one!

lonestargirl

Aprilmay wrote: »

So which one would apply most in our situation as all our income for the last year was earned in Ireland and nothing in the U.S is it the 1040NR - I wouldn't have a clue how to calculate how much we would owe (if we even owe anything??)

EDIT: I may be wrong, I'll double check in the morning

I don't find doing taxes that difficult, but I am a numbers person.

Wisco

If you have trouble doing it yourself, you can use the likes of Turbo Tax (www.turbotax.intuit.com) and it will walk you through everything online and then you can print the forms and post them off (if you're resident outside the US) or file them electronically (think you have to be resident within the US for this).
When I last used it, I think it was only around $25. I only paid for it once and then could use it as a template for the following years.

dissed doc

lonestargirl wrote: »

The first step is to establish if you are tax resident or not (if you are you have to include Irish income too). The non-resident form is 1040NR

I thought the whole thing with the green card is that you *are* resident )and tax resident) as soon as it is activated. You can get some time away to move over, but effectively you become resident in the US from the moment you make the first activation.

So, they started tax residency liability from Sept. 2010. If they earned over US$75000 in the year (€54k?) while outside the US then tax must be paid for the excess over 75k to the IRS. Maybe I'm wrong though genuinely don't know

Palmy

Aprilmay

I rang the IRS today and they explained to me that once you have entered the U.S you are considered as a resident.So you need to fill out the 1040 form.
As an oversea resident you are automatically given 2 months extra to file your taxes (Due date 15 june)but you need to write clearly on top of the form you are currently living outside the U.S.
If you want to leave your tax return till you enter the U.S (and get someone to file your taxes out for you) you need to fill out a 4868 form (which will give you untill 15 October to file taxes)but this must be sent to them before the 15 june date.

SSN : The IRS also explanined to me that i needed to put my SSN on all forms,so they basically told me i need to get my ssn sorted before i can do anything.
I tried to contact the U.S Embassy in Dublin but no luck, so i rang the Embassy in London they checked to see if a SSN had been allocated to me,but like you nothing on the system.
He told me to ring the Embassy in Dublin make an appointment go in and fill out the form for my SSN ,and they can process it from the Embassy.I have the contact number and extension number for department which looks after this.I will ring today and let you know how i get on.

lonestargirl

dissed doc wrote: »

I thought the whole thing with the green card is that you *are* resident )and tax resident) as soon as it is activated. You can get some time away to move over, but effectively you become resident in the US from the moment you make the first activation.

Correct, what you quoted was originally my reply to PeakOutput who does not have a greencard and is filing for the 1st time. His filing status may depend on his visa type and the number of days he spent in the US.

dissed doc wrote: »

So, they started tax residency liability from Sept. 2010. If they earned over US$75000 in the year (€54k?) while outside the US then tax must be paid for the excess over 75k to the IRS. Maybe I'm wrong though genuinely don't know

Once you enter any time in 2010 you are tax resident for the entirety of 2010 and must declare all your income (incl interest on savings etc). The amount you can write-off is pro-rated according to the number of days spent outside the US in that year, i.e. if you spent 10 days in the US you can only write off (355/365) of the allowance. If I recall correctly you can also deduct tax paid outside the US.

Palmy

Just an up date

Talked to the Dublin Embassy today ,all i need to do is go in between 10.00-11.30am Mon-Fri and ask to see the Federal Benifit unit.Bring in birth certs,passports and Green cards,fill out the relevent forms and they will process them for me and allocate me my SSN.

Aprilmay

Palmy wrote: »

Just an up date

Talked to the Dublin Embassy today ,all i need to do is go in between 10.00-11.30am Mon-Fri and ask to see the Federal Benifit unit.Bring in birth certs,passports and Green cards,fill out the relevent forms and they will process them for me and allocate me my SSN.

I spoke to them in the FBU and they never said I could do this. Let me know when your going in and how you get on . I will have to try to organise a day for the four of us, Do you not need an appointment because I remember the day we went for our interview- The police had to check us off the list?????

Palmy

Aprilmay

No appointment needed, as we are Green Card holders and Residents.
I pretty much told them i needed my SSN,and that the IRS had told me i need it (which they did to fill taxes ).I'll go in on Monday so i will keep you posted.

Aprilmay

Palmy wrote: »

Aprilmay

No appointment needed, as we are Green Card holders and Residents.
I pretty much told them i needed my SSN,and that the IRS had told me i need it (which they did to fill taxes ).I'll go in on Monday so i will keep you posted.

Great can't wait to hear how you get on

Palmy

Went into the Embassy yesterday.Forms filled out and processed ,we will have our ssn sent to our Irish address in about three weeks.Wasn't a problem, you can either print the form out for yourself or they will give you them.Just make sure you have all your passports,greencards,and birth certs.It shouldn't take more than 40 min.No appointment needed, i just told sercurity i wanted to go to the sbu to fill out forms for our ssn and we had green cards.Any person over the age of 18 has to be present when you fill out the forms at the Embassey.
Happy thats sorted now.:)

Aprilmay

Palmy wrote: »

Went into the Embassy yesterday.Forms filled out and processed ,we will have our ssn sent to our Irish address in about three weeks.Wasn't a problem, you can either print the form out for yourself or they will give you them.Just make sure you have all your passports,greencards,and birth certs.It shouldn't take more than 40 min.No appointment needed, i just told sercurity i wanted to go to the sbu to fill out forms for our ssn and we had green cards.Any person over the age of 18 has to be present when you fill out the forms at the Embassey.
Happy thats sorted now.:)

That's Great news -I will arrange to go in with my husband one of the days and I will get the kids theirs too ( its great that I don't have to bring them in with us)Did you go early ?