Woooooooooooooooo hooooooooooooo!!!

Leiva

So let me get this straight .....

Your starting on a journey that will essentially finish with you loosing your B0llox ?

Sounds like many a Stag weekend I have been on .

Easy !

Good luck

watna

bourgeois wrote: »

Posts of the day normally make me laugh. Actually, this one made me laugh as well.

Really? This thread made me smile - a lot. It's great to a) see somebody so happy and getting something they've wanted really badly and b) seeing the mature and genuinely warm responses from posters that you generally never get in AH. It's really cheered me up.

Congrats Links - I'm glad to see you so happy and excited. Best of luck

Khyra24

Ouch...that needle looks painful *shivers*. Congratulations Links234! Take care

grrrrrrrrrr

Links234 wrote: »

I can see it already,
"can't get cheaper car insurance now, you've wasted your time" :pac:
but life is much duller without a sense of humor, so who cares? wouldn't be the first, or last time I'll get a slaggin

Eh hate to break it to you bow but the EU ruled this week that as of September 2012 women wont be charged less. Ha bad one for you

Tallon

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Eh hate to break it to you bow but the EU ruled this week that as of September 2012 women wont be charged less. Ha bad one for you

/facepalm

Thats the joke...

deirdre_dub

First of all, congratulations Links. And, in particular, I take my hat off to you for your honesty and courage in how you are taking your journey into the public domain. As a previous poster said, I think you have done fantastic things for the transgender community in Ireland through your courage, persistence, humour and patience.

A bit about me - I'm about 17 months ahead of where Links is right now. I'm also significantly older. I want to address some of the questions I've seen on this thread.

Unlike Links, I'm straight(-ish) (i.e. I'm mostly into men). How do I feel about telling potential partners about my medical history?

Should it be up to me to tell a potential partner about my medical history before we get serious, or should it be up to my potential partner to tell me that they would have a problem with it before we get serious? I vote for the latter. I intend to grill any potential partners to find out if they are homophobic/transphobic before I get serious with them.

The root of this whole "you should tell before you get serious" thing, as far as I can see, is "sorry, but you are not actually a real girl". If that is how you feel about me, then sorry but we don't have a future.

There was another question about passports. I now have a passport which has "Gender: F" on it. It is actually relatively easy to do (though when I say "easy", one of the things you need is a letter from the hospital to say that you are going through gender realignment). Actually, Ireland is one of the better countries for transgender people when it comes to our legal identities etc. The only place where we are behind is with the birth cert. The whole Lydia Foy thing means that the Government now have to indroduce gender recognition legislation, which we hope will happen soon. I was at a conference in Waterford recently, at which Dr. Foy said that she had re-applied for her new birth cert, and that pressure will be maintained on the Government to give it to her. I think there is going to be a big party when she finally gets it!

There has also been a question about voice. Unfortunately, Links, I do not believe that HRT will have any effect on your voice. However, as you said, your voice is already quite soft, so with a little bit of practice, you should get a good female voice.

As for my voice - I just practice raising its pitch. (As an aside - I was at the AH beers last night, had a bit of a skinful, and now my voice has dropped an octave! ). I'm certainly self-conscious about my voice (especially on the telephone!), but either people don't hear my male voice, or people don't give a damn, because I've rarely had the experience of me saying something to be met with "ZOMG you're a dude!".

The interesting thing is that I know full-time trans women with considerably worse voices than I who have done pretty much nothing with their voice, yet get away with it! It helps that they are older - women's voice tend to drop as they get older.

Anyhoo, congratulations again Links, and well done for your consciousness-raising efforts here and elsewhere.

Links234

huge thanks to everyone this is amazing, post of the day and all! wow

Metallitroll wrote: »

oi..pft.. linksy. help a brother out; you do not fancy men whatsoever? in our natural state.. of course. undiluted; pure. the essence offf men...

sorry, don't have any interest in men at all

Tallon

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Be nice or be banned.

lol, I thought I posted this while drunk....

herisson

awh thats savage Links

hope all goes well for ya

Gummy Panda

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Should it be up to me to tell a potential partner about my medical history before we get serious, or should it be up to my potential partner to tell me that they would have a problem with it before we get serious? I vote for the latter. I intend to grill any potential partners to find out if they are homophobic/transphobic before I get serious with them.

I don't think many guys would be too happy with that

philologos

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Should it be up to me to tell a potential partner about my medical history before we get serious, or should it be up to my potential partner to tell me that they would have a problem with it before we get serious? I vote for the latter. I intend to grill any potential partners to find out if they are homophobic/transphobic before I get serious with them.

Of course it should be? - Being dishonest about something as serious as this is a perfect reason to not go any further in a relationship, and if one had aspirations from the beginning to have a family that wouldn't be fair either.

I don't think this actually even counts as "transphobia". It just means that people should be honest from the get-go about something as serious.

deirdre_dub

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Should it be up to me to tell a potential partner about my medical history before we get serious, or should it be up to my potential partner to tell me that they would have a problem with it before we get serious? I vote for the latter. I intend to grill any potential partners to find out if they are homophobic/transphobic before I get serious with them.

I don't think many guys would be too happy with that

Happy with what exactly? With being grilled about their prejudices? With learning that gender isn't what they were taught it is?

I'm not too happy with it either. I'm not too happy that there are some who believe I should go around with a neon sign over my head which says "transgender", and some of those who even believe that the fact I don't have that neon sign is a capital offense for which I can be justifiably killed. I'm really not happy with that, actually.

Quite apart from those who believe I am unworthy of life, there are others who believe that I am unworthy of love, because of some accident of my birth. They believe I should be quarantined, as if I had some terrible communicable disease. They seem to believe that I have the power to make them gay! Good grief!

I am female, which means that if you are male, and we get together, it is a straight relationship, not a gay one. If you see it as a gay relationship - that is your ignorance, born out of you not understanding what is actually going on. I will not and cannot support you in seeing it as a gay relationship. It isn't a gay relationship - it is a straight one.

But, even if it were a gay realtionship - so what?! Homophobia, anyone?

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like in a situation where someone couldn't have kids for example
For a lot of people maybe it's not an issue and for some it would be and then they would be best off not in relationship with the person

Would they yell it straight up or wait for someone else to say they'd want kids eventually
Duno, I think it should be brought out in the open soon into it

deirdre_dub

deirdre_dub wrote: »

But, even if it were a gay realtionship - so what?! Homophobia, anyone?

I don't think its homophobia to not want to be in a gay relationship like

philologos

There is one thing to say that someone has the full liberty to make decisions about how they are to appear or live. It is another when such decisions start to affect other peoples lives in a relationship. If it is going to affect other peoples lives, I think they should know.

squishykins

Yyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaayyyyyy Links! I'm so happy for you, have a blast on this new journey you're taking, and get ready for all the womanly feelings bombarding you when you're being all logical! :P

deirdre_dub

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like in a situation where someone couldn't have kids for example
For a lot of people maybe it's not an issue and for some it would be and then they would be best off not in relationship with the person

Would they yell it straight up or wait for someone else to say they'd want kids eventually
Duno, I think it should be brought out in the open soon into it

I'm old enough that I do not believe that the question of kids would come into any relationship.

In any case, the question you are asking is the same question as "should all sterile people have to tell their prospective partners about their sterility before getting into a relationship?". I think the answer to that is "no".

Many trans women store sperm before transition, and so children are still possible in a relationship. And, as we've seen, some trans men hold on to their wombs after transition. Finally, adoption is always an option.

deirdre_dub

Jakkass wrote: »

There is one thing to say that someone has the full liberty to make decisions about how they are to appear or live.

The first thing I want to address is this whole question of a "decision".

One of the myths of trans that I would like to see addressed is this myth that I "want" or "choose" to be a woman.

I neither choose nor want to be a woman.

What has happened is I've gone through a process of discovering that I am a woman. Now, that might sound strange - how can I possibly say that I am a woman when there is so much evidence to the contrary? Well, the answer is that the evidence to the contrary is hidden. Links knows this stuff better than I do, but it turns out that, because of some hormonal thing in my mother's womb, I've literally ended up with a female brain in a male body. I think and feel like a female. Testosterone feels like poison in my brain (seriously - the injection that Links mentions at the start of this thread is something that we get once a month - I'm due to get my next one next Tuesday, so my testosterone levels are currently near their maximum, and I'm feeling the effects).

It is another when such decisions start to affect other peoples lives in a relationship. If it is going to affect other peoples lives, I think they should know.

The decision I've made is nothing more than a decision to get treatment for a medical condition. It's no different, in principle, to getting a broken leg put in a plaster cast.

I'm working very hard indeed to limit the effects of my condition on those around me. Of course, in the initial stages, it isn't possible for me to prevent my condition from affecting everyone around me. I've involved my family and my work in my treatment.

As for future relationships. I'm 50% of any future relationship - my needs are also, believe it or not, important. It's a balancing act, to be sure.

Of course I need to treat any other person in a relationship with respect, and let them know what they need to know in order to be happy. For instance, someone has already mentioned the question of children - if I find out that having children who aren't adopted is important to the other person, then obviously I need to mention that I'm sterile.

I believe that it is my responsibility to get myself to a place where there are, to the degree that is possible, no negative consequences whatsoever for anyone who enters into a relationship with me. Hence I feel justified in not wearing a neon sign over my head which says "transgender".

Links234

it's silly to think that anyone needs to mention everything on a first date, you're getting to know each other, see how you get on and everything.

but lets not have the discussion about when a transgender person should tell a prospective partner about their history, it's done to death, and this isn't really the thread for a debate.

desaparecidos

watna wrote: »

seeing the mature and genuinely warm responses from posters that you generally never get in AH. It's really cheered me up.

I think this has something to do with that:

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Be nice or be banned.

I'd just like to add to the thread that I fundamentally disagree with the original posters actions.

I can't fully say what I would like to say due to the draconian moderation which is making boards a site I will visit less and less.

Links234

It's my life and it's my body.

deirdre

Oh dont get me wrong I'm delighted for links (and deirdre too I think?) I just thought it was an interesting question

deirdre wrote:

Many trans women store sperm before transition, and so children are still possible in a relationship. And, as we've seen, some trans men hold on to their wombs after transition. Finally, adoption is always an option.

I didnt mean you couldnt have kids, I was just picking it out of the air as an example, it's a big enough deal for lots of women especially when they get a bit older, but equally it's not a deal at all for other women. So I thought that would be comparable.

squishykins

desaparecidos wrote: »

I think this has something to do with that:



I'd just like to add to the thread that I fundamentally disagree with the original posters actions.

I can't fully say what I would like to say due to the draconian moderation which is making boards a site I will visit less and less.

This is something that really bugs me. Mods get attacked so much for doing their job, sometimes I really don't envy them. For all we know, <insert mod's name here> could be the biggest homophobe on the block, yet it is still their job to keep things civil on boards. I wouldn't call it draconian moderation, if people were allowed to say anything they liked on boards, I doubt it'd still be running as a reputable website today. Anywhere like this needs rules for it to run efficiently, and the rules aren't ever going to suit everyone. This thread was for links to share her happiness and excitement that she is undergoing something that she has wanted for a long time, which is admirable. If you disagree, why not create a new thread for discussion and debate instead of attacking one person on it?



Sorry for the rant, I just get so mad about these things :mad:

dark crystal

Best of luck, OP.

I love that this is such a sign of the times that we live in, that a person should no longer feel the need to continue living a lie, simply because of the judgements of others in society.

I wish you every happiness in the future ahead.


Bloody big needle, though!!

WesternNight

Congratulations Links! I'm delighted that it's all starting to come together for you now

deirdre_dub

desaparecidos wrote: »

I'd just like to add to the thread that I fundamentally disagree with the original posters actions.

I can't fully say what I would like to say due to the draconian moderation which is making boards a site I will visit less and less.

The instruction from the moderator was to "be nice". Can you say what you want to say while being nice? Or, is what you want to say something that boils down to an un-nice thing like "you are a fscking freak and should be burned at the stake"? Because, if it is the latter, then I hope you can see that saying that would be counter-productive for everyone involved.

I fear that the reason why you are opposed to someone receiving medical treatment for a recognised medical condition is because you don't understand said medical condition. So, before you post, I would ask you to please make sure that you do understand the medical condition. Because, if you don't, you could easily say something which, from the point of view of those of us who do understand the medical condition, comes across as very hurtful / ignorant / un-nice.

As I said above, this isn't a choice. I'll repeat my words - I neither choose nor want to be a woman. Please see my post above for an explanation of what that means. (In a nutshell, because of hormonal stuff in my mother's womb, I was left with a female brain in a male body, so I think and feel like a female).

So your opposition "to the original poster's actions" boil down to an opposition to receiving treatment for a very painful and difficult medical condition.

deirdre_dub

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't think its homophobia to not want to be in a gay relationship like

As I said, it wouldn't be a gay relationship! :rolleyes:

deirdre_dub

deirdre_dub wrote: »

As I said, it wouldn't be a gay relationship! :rolleyes:

Which I agree with, but then you said "But, even if it were a gay realtionship - so what?! Homophobia, anyone?" which is clearly what I was responding to
Don't rolleyes me!

Wolfe Tone

I would have thought someone would have said "cool story bro" by now, AH what has happened to ye?

Wolfe Tone

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I would have thought someone would have said "cool story bro" by now, AH what has happened to ye?

cool story sis :cool:

deirdre_dub

bluewolf wrote: »

Oh dont get me wrong I'm delighted for links (and deirdre too I think?) I just thought it was an interesting question

You are not happy for me too? Or you weren't sure if I'm trans as well? (I am).

I didnt mean you couldnt have kids, I was just picking it out of the air as an example, it's a big enough deal for lots of women especially when they get a bit older, but equally it's not a deal at all for other women. So I thought that would be comparable.

Here's the bottom line. Contrary to popular belief (and I'm not accusing you of having this belief), I am not a monster. I believe in treating people with respect and honesty. However, I also have needs of my own. And, I am dealing with a medical condition that society makes horrendously unnecessarily difficult to deal with. So I am asking for the same level of respect towards me that is expected of me. Telling me what I must and must not do in my intimate relationships isn't respectful.

I'm not out to create hassle in other people's lives. But, as is the case with any human, I also need things like love. I need to balance a huge amount of stuff - homophobia, transphobia, doctors, people not understanding etc - and I'm doing my best.

desaparecidos

Links234 wrote: »

It's my life and it's my body.

So what?

Does it mean you have to scream it from the roof tops, and anyone who disagrees is threatened with a ban if they dare vice their opinion? Doesn't sound like a discussion board to me.

deirdre_dub

bluewolf wrote: »

Which I agree with, but then you said "But, even if it were a gay realtionship - so what?! Homophobia, anyone?" which is clearly what I was responding to
Don't rolleyes me!

Rolled eyes you because, in context, your "I don't think its homophobia to not want to be in a gay relationship like" comment indicated to me that you didn't understand that it wouldn't be a gay relationship.

I'm quite happy indeed to acknowledge that I was wrong.

WesternNight

desaparecidos wrote: »

So what?

Does it mean you have to scream it from the roof tops, and anyone who disagrees is threatened with a ban if they dare vice their opinion? Doesn't sound like a discussion board to me.

It's not really something you get to legitimately disagree with, though, is it? It's a fact. It's a reality. It's something that has no effect whatsoever on your life, presumably...so why would you feel any need to argue against it on a discussion board?

deirdre_dub

desaparecidos wrote: »

Does it mean you have to scream it from the roof tops, and anyone who disagrees is threatened with a ban if they dare vice their opinion? Doesn't sound like a discussion board to me.

You weren't threatened with a ban for disagreeing, you are threatened with a ban if you aren't nice.

I'll do a deal with you. If you write out a PM which contains your understanding of what links and I are talking about, and which then contains your concerns, and send it to me, and indicate to me if you are willing to have your understanding corrected, I'm sure we'll be able to figure out a way where your concerns can be aired publically.

dlofnep

Congrats OP If you're happy, that's all that's important.

Links234

desaparecidos wrote: »

So what?

Does it mean you have to scream it from the roof tops, and anyone who disagrees is threatened with a ban if they dare vice their opinion? Doesn't sound like a discussion board to me.

I want to scream it from the roof tops because I am just that happy, and because I post here a lot and it's absolutely huge news, it's not been easy getting to this point, I've had to go through an awful lot to get this treatment, so I think it's fine for me to be able to say "YES! I've done it everyone!"

if you've got a fundamental disagreement with me, that's fine too, you can be civil and talk about it, or you can even PM me as long as you're not abusive.

Queen-Mise

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Rolled eyes you because, in context, your "I don't think its homophobia to not want to be in a gay relationship like" comment indicated to me that you didn't understand that it wouldn't be a gay relationship.
/QUOTE]

I get a headache when I think about this.

Ok a boy who is a really a girl going with a girl is lesbian and presumably if going with a boy it is heterosexual.

A girl who is really a boy going with a boy is homosexual and same as above is heterosexual.

Is this how ye understand it? Or am I completely wrong on this.


Oh and congratulations OP.

deirdre_dub

Queen-Mise wrote: »

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Rolled eyes you because, in context, your "I don't think its homophobia to not want to be in a gay relationship like" comment indicated to me that you didn't understand that it wouldn't be a gay relationship.

I get a headache when I think about this.

Ok a boy who is a really a girl going with a girl is lesbian and presumably if going with a boy it is heterosexual.

A girl who is really a boy going with a boy is homosexual and same as above is heterosexual.

Is this how ye understand it? Or am I completely wrong on this.

That is correct.

Think about it - "a girl who is really a boy" (as you put it) is a what? Yes, that's right - a boy! Hence any relationship he gets into with a woman is a straight relationship.

Of course, things get really confusing when you add in that there are gender queer and androgenous people!

fonecrusher1

Jiminy Jeekers! this thread descended into a bickering match. Imagine that.

CRUMBS!

Neyite

Links234,

The very best of luck on your journey to finally becoming on the outside what you have always been on the inside. I wish you a happy and exciting transistion, I am delighted for you.

Queen-Mise

deirdre_dub wrote: »

That is correct.

Think about it - "a girl who is really a boy" (as you put it) is a what? Yes, that's right - a boy! Hence any relationship he gets into with a woman is a straight relationship.

Of course, things get really confusing when you add in that there are gender queer and androgenous people!

The gender queer & androgenous I'll have to look into.


Part of it is as simple - girl who is boy/boy who is girl etc. So the crux of the point, it does not matter what the physical genitalia are - it is the girl/boy inside that matters.

I did a lot of study last week on gender and how it is not based on sex, culture ior language are influences for example. Studying it was a minefield - it is a really complicated subject.
The biological part is one aspect of a huge area. Probably gone of track here.

philologos

deirdre_dub wrote: »

That is correct.

Think about it - "a girl who is really a boy" (as you put it) is a what? Yes, that's right - a boy! Hence any relationship he gets into with a woman is a straight relationship.

Of course, things get really confusing when you add in that there are gender queer and androgenous people!

This is your understanding of it. Others may differ irrespective of how right you may think you are. This is why it is much easier to say that while you have the full liberty to alter any aspect of your fundamental appearance (of course arguably more, but this is up for discussion) when it affects other peoples lives it is something serious that does need to be disclosed. Indeed, and while you have the liberty to make such choices, you do not have the liberty to force everyone else to agree with your understanding of it.

Irrespective of what slant one may put on the issue, if I found that I was in a relationship and wasn't told this up front only to be told it at a later stage I don't think it would be my fault if I was upset about it to be frank with you. Indeed, it would be perfectly normal.

WesternNight

Jakkass wrote: »

This is your understanding of it. Others may differ irrespective of how right you may think you are. This is why it is much easier to say that while you have the full liberty to alter any aspect of your fundamental appearance (of course arguably more, but this is up for discussion) when it affects other peoples lives it is something serious that does need to be disclosed. Indeed, and while you have the liberty to make such choices, you do not have the liberty to force everyone else to agree with your understanding of it.

Irrespective of what slant one may put on the issue, if I found that I was in a relationship and wasn't told this up front only to be told it at a later stage I don't think it would be my fault if I was upset about it to be frank with you. Indeed, it would be perfectly normal.

Lots of ifs and buts and indeeds.

I don't think anyone's saying that no-one should ever tell partners, or prospective partners, about this aspect of one's life. Just that it's up to the person whose life it is when they tell people.

It's the kind of thing that, I imagine, involves a certain level of trust to be built up before sharing with someone. There are so many things that people wouldn't want to disclose on a first date, or even a fifth date, and this isn't any different. People don't have an automatic right to know private details about a person's life until they've earned the trust to know them first. And it's up to, in this case, the transgender person to decide that.

krudler

WesternNight wrote: »

Lots of ifs and buts and indeeds.

I don't think anyone's saying that no-one should ever tell partners, or prospective partners, about this aspect of one's life. Just that it's up to the person whose life it is when they tell people.

It's the kind of thing that, I imagine, involves a certain level of trust to be built up before sharing with someone. There are so many things that people wouldn't want to disclose on a first date, or even a fifth date, and this isn't any different. People don't have an automatic right to know private details about a person's life until they've earned the trust to know them first. And it's up to, in this case, the transgender person to decide that.

But on the flipside, if someone knew a prospective partner was transgender from the beginning then they could decide whether its a relationship they want to get into. I doubt anyone wouldnt see it as a big deal that their new boy/girlfriend told them "oh btw I used to be a man/woman" its not exactly exactly something you just go "oh thats interesting, so what movie dyou wanna see later?" its something you'd have to discuss in detail with the person.

i dunno, its one of those situations that you'd never know how to deal with unless it happens to you.

krudler

krudler wrote: »

But on the flipside, if someone knew a prospective partner was transgender from the beginning then they could decide whether its a relationship they want to get into. I doubt anyone wouldnt see it as a big deal that their new boy/girlfriend told them "oh btw I used to be a man/woman" its not exactly exactly something you just go "oh thats interesting, so what movie dyou wanna see later?" its something you'd have to discuss in detail with the person.

i dunno, its one of those situations that you'd never know how to deal with unless it happens to you.

When I said "early" previously I didn't mean like 1st date.
I would say it's better to wait a few dates. That's still early enough but late enough that the other person may realise any preconceptions they had are maybe wrong.

liah

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't think its homophobia to not want to be in a gay relationship like

Being with a transwoman doesn't make you gay.

Anyway, congratulations Links! This is an amazing step, you must be so excited.

liah

liah wrote: »

Being with a transwoman doesn't make you gay.

I didn't say it did.
Can people please read the quote before making mad assumptions about my post? Or even my subsequent clarifying post?

johnn

liah wrote: »

Being with a transwoman doesn't make you gay

Even if they still have....for lack of a better word....a cawk?

johnn

bluewolf wrote: »

I didn't say it did.
Can people please read the quote before making mad assumptions about my post? Or even my subsequent clarifying post?

Keep digging :rolleyes:
A lot of ignorance in this thread.