Cruel Vet?

Vain

Any Vets on here that deals with putting down dogs. I had my dog put down at home yesterday he was 14 years old and he had cancer and was on his last legs would not eat and any bit he did he was getting sick. Anyway we said we would put him down as we felt it was best for the dog with the life he was having. Anyway the vet was very cruel and the dog was in alot of pain and we had to ask for him to be put to sleep first as he couldnt find a vein for the injection to stop his heart and the needle was huge and hurting the dog alot. It was like he was taking a short cut by not putting him to sleep first. Anyway when he was asleep he was like he was stabbing the dog looking for a vein. The dog was pumping blood out of the places he was trying to find a vein.

Anyway any one know if vets have to put down in animals in such a way that they are in as least pain as possible?

portgirl123

omg what a horrible experience. my 2 dogs that were put to sleep, while distressing to me was very peaceful for my doggies. am not a vet but that dont seem right at all.
poor u having to see ur baby go like that, more on here prob can give u better advise but dont seem right to me.
hope ur ok

Zapperzy

I don't understand what you mean by putting the dog to sleep first? Do you mean you wanted him sedated before being euthanised?

In older dogs it can be very hard to find a vein especially if it's a small dog or the dog has a lot of fat, as far as I know if the dog was sedated it can be even harder to get a vein. Perhaps the vet wasn't very experienced and was nervous, it is a very nerve wracking experience especially if it was one of the first he/she has had to do on their own.

Sorry to hear about your dog, RIP doggy.

Vain

Zapperzy wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean by putting the dog to sleep first? Do you mean you wanted him sedated before being euthanised?

In older dogs it can be very hard to find a vein especially if it's a small dog or the dog has a lot of fat, as far as I know if the dog was sedated it can be even harder to get a vein. Perhaps the vet wasn't very experienced and was nervous, it is a very nerve wracking experience especially if it was one of the first he/she has had to do on their own.

Sorry to hear about your dog, RIP doggy.

Yes sorry sedated. The vet is very experienced and not young. The reason we called the vet was for the dog to get a peaceful death but this vet gave him a bad painful death.

Thanks

tightropetom

I presume if anything he ate was vomited up then the only means of sedation was by injecting some sedation through a vein?

How else would they sedate him?

(I'm not a vet, but rather I am from a medical background)

I understand that it must have been a traumatic experience to watch, but veins are not always easy to find. If you fail, there will of course be a trickle of bleeding from the site where you tried - it doesn't mean the dog is suffering, however. Any needle is sore, the size is irrelevant - it's the sharp bit at the end that's the problem, and it's possible that some drugs need to be injected through a slightly larger bore needle, especially if they are more viscous, so I don't think the vet was necessarily being cruel. I know human patients think ANY needle looks huge, so to an owner of a pet this can look similarly huge!

Finally, it can be quite hard to cannulate a vein in pressurised circumstances, especially when an animal is to be put down or distressed owners are anxiously awaiting an end etc. (the watched kettle never boils, so to speak). I don't think any vets would deliberately inflict apparent cruelty on an animal that they are trying to do something humane for.

Why not make an appointment to speak to them, ask questions to help your understanding of what happened?

Cherry Blossom

When I had my old lab pts he was given the sedative into one of his front legs, the second injection was given at the same injection site, very straight forward and very quick.

Vain

tightropetom wrote: »

I presume if anything he ate was vomited up then the only means of sedation was by injecting some sedation through a vein?

How else would they sedate him?

(I'm not a vet, but rather I am from a medical background)

I understand that it must have been a traumatic experience to watch, but veins are not always easy to find. If you fail, there will of course be a trickle of bleeding from the site where you tried - it doesn't mean the dog is suffering, however. Any needle is sore, the size is irrelevant - it's the sharp bit at the end that's the problem, and it's possible that some drugs need to be injected through a slightly larger bore needle, especially if they are more viscous, so I don't think the vet was necessarily being cruel. I know human patients think ANY needle looks huge, so to an owner of a pet this can look similarly huge!

Finally, it can be quite hard to cannulate a vein in pressurised circumstances, especially when an animal is to be put down or distressed owners are anxiously awaiting an end etc. (the watched kettle never boils, so to speak). I don't think any vets would deliberately inflict apparent cruelty on an animal that they are trying to do something humane for.

Why not make an appointment to speak to them, ask questions to help your understanding of what happened?

Thanks for the reply, I never explained my story full. About 2 months ago my dog was diagnosed with throat cancer. He had 2 ops to try and stop it but it was too aggressive. My vet said to ring him when he stops eating as it will be time to have him put down.

My dog went down hill fast and anything he ate he was getting back up by been sick. He also looked very unhappy weak and sick. So we called our vet and told him and he came to put him down.

He tied up the dogs mouth with a shoe lace. Injected the lethal injection into is leg but couldn't find a vein. He kept trying and the dog was crying in pain and in alot of distress. My dad then asked him to sedate dog which he did. The dog was then knocked out and he was trying to find a vein for the leathal injection and was stabbing the needle into the dog. He eventually found one and gave it to the dog but it didnt kill him. He had to give him another one. In the end he injected it into the dogs heart when he done this the dog woke gave a cough or some noise and died.

We were in the understanding that the dog would have no pain or as little as and that he would be sedated so wouldnt have any pain and have a nice peaceful dead. Thats why we called the vet for him to die peacefully but he had a horrible painful death:(

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

When I had my old lab pts he was given the sedative into one of his front legs, the second injection was given at the same injection site, very straight forward and very quick.

Yes thats what we would of loved for our dog, we wish we didnt ring the vet now as we are blaming ourself for the pain he went through. The dog was looking up at us he trusted us and we let him down by putting him through it.

Wisco

The drug that is used for euthanasia is very irritant if it goes outside the vein. Having said that, in your dog's case, it sounds like it probably was very hard to find a vein- this is often more difficult in dogs that are very ill, dehydrated, low blood pressure etc.
Unless a dog is very difficult to handle, sedation before euthanasia is not routine (sedatives in dogs can be given into the muscle but they will not act as fast as intravenous sedation, obviously). It can also be harder for the vet to do the job at your home as he will not have any help (ie a nurse or someone who knows how to restrain a dog while holding off a vein, etc) and it may be harder to work on the dog while it's on the floor or in its bed.
I seriously doubt the vet is cruel but it does sound like he was unlucky not to find a vein and perhaps should have sedated the dog first- but that is his decision and as I said, is not common practice in family pets that are easy to handle. I know for some people, cost is not an issue, but giving sedatives plus euthanasia drugs can also be quite expensive, so he may also have been trying to keep costs down for you.
Perhaps you should ask to speak to him and discuss your concerns. In my experience, every vet wants a euthanasia to be as quick and painless as possible, although it doesn't always go exactly according to plan.
Sorry for your loss- think of your dog when he was healthy and running around, going for walkies, and all the good things dogs do- maybe that will make it easier for you. Time will help too, I think, although we never forget past pets.

EGAR

The few times I had a dog pts'd the vets sedated the dog first with an injection in the muscle. It is a lot less stress free than going straight into a vein. One vet wanted to PTS a cat by giving the lethal injection in the heart and I walked out on him.

anniehoo

The way you've described definitely doesnt sound like a perfect euthansia by any means. Im confused by the "shoelace" comment. Was your dog struggling or nipping? This was probably used as a make shift muzzle in that case. The drug that is used is Euthatal ( a blue liquid) and is basically an overdose of Pentobarbital. As mentioned above it can be difficult to find a vein but an experienced vet will only try 3 or 4 times (the vein could blow) so to repeatedly "stab" your dog as you describe isnt right.

Hmm...its difficult as im sure it was a traumatising experience for you. My dog was very peacefully PTS last year ( she actually gave the paw ) for the injection, the vet found the vein immediately and drifted away.No drama and no stress.

Your dog is out of pain now and thats the main thing,but if you are insistent that the procedure was more painful/stressful than it shouldve been go back to your vet and ask for a full explanation. Failing that a complaint to the Veterinary Council of Ireland is the next course of action.

cram1971

Really sorry that your dog was stressed while being PTS, I used to work with an uncle who is a Vet and have helped in a fair few euthanasias, unfortunatly I can remember two out of the few hundred that didn't go as clinical as anyone would have hoped, both were where there was a very sick dogs wth low BP and quite dehydrated. However what I would say the stress experianced in the last 5 minutes of its life was unfortunate but compared to the previous few weeks the dogs is in a better place.

Really though decision I know making that call to your vet.

TooManyDogs

OP that sounds like a horrific experience. The two dogs I've had to get pts were peaceful so it sounds like you were unfortunately very unlucky.

One of the other posters suggested ringing your vet and asking him to go through what happened, that might be a very good idea. It might be that the vet is as upset by the way things went as you and not the cruel person he may have come across as. He also might be able to say what went wrong and you'll be able to ask any questions you want.

Vain

anniehoo wrote: »

The way you've described definitely doesnt sound like a perfect euthansia by any means. Im confused by the "shoelace" comment. Was your dog struggling or nipping? This was probably used as a make shift muzzle in that case. The drug that is used is Euthatal ( a blue liquid) and is basically an overdose of Pentobarbital. As mentioned above it can be difficult to find a vein but an experienced vet will only try 3 or 4 times (the vein could blow) so to repeatedly "stab" your dog as you describe isnt right.

Hmm...its difficult as im sure it was a traumatising experience for you. My dog was very peacefully PTS last year ( she actually gave the paw ) for the injection, the vet found the vein immediately and drifted away.No drama and no stress.

Your dog is out of pain now and thats the main thing,but if you are insistent that the procedure was more painful/stressful than it shouldve been go back to your vet and ask for a full explanation. Failing that a complaint to the Veterinary Council of Ireland is the next course of action.

Yes the shoe lace was to stop him from biting. I may call the vet and have a word about it thanks for the reply:)

cram1971 wrote: »

Really sorry that your dog was stressed while being PTS, I used to work with an uncle who is a Vet and have helped in a fair few euthanasias, unfortunatly I can remember two out of the few hundred that didn't go as clinical as anyone would have hoped, both were where there was a very sick dogs wth low BP and quite dehydrated. However what I would say the stress experianced in the last 5 minutes of its life was unfortunate but compared to the previous few weeks the dogs is in a better place.

Really though decision I know making that call to your vet.

Yes I think my dog would of been dehydrated so made it harder. Thanks for the reply.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

OP that sounds like a horrific experience. The two dogs I've had to get pts were peaceful so it sounds like you were unfortunately very unlucky.

One of the other posters suggested ringing your vet and asking him to go through what happened, that might be a very good idea. It might be that the vet is as upset by the way things went as you and not the cruel person he may have come across as. He also might be able to say what went wrong and you'll be able to ask any questions you want.

Ya think im going to call him. Thanks for the reply.

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

When one euthanises a dog they often display agonal breating before they die. There can be twitching of limbs and deep gasping. Sometimes it can appear that the dog is awake,conscious and thus sensitive to pain. It can be distressful to the owner to witness this (as you have). You can be assured however that the dog did not wake up and as such did not experience pain.

Thanks for that i thought he woke up.

SophieSakura

That must have been really horrible to see

I don't think necessarily that the vet was cruel. In a very sick dog it can be really difficult to find a vein so what else could a vet do . . . they can inject them with sedative under the skin.


I know a vet was putting down a dog when I was there, it was really really sick, almost dead anyway. Luckily the owners didn't stay to watch. The vet couldn't find a vein no matter how hard she tried (she didn't repeatedly stab the dog, she just tried several different veins, nothing was working because the dog was so sick anyway). She got really upset about putting the dog through more suffering and she wasn't used to injecting into the heart like some vets do so didn't want to do that. She wasn't being cruel and she felt bad that the dog couldn't just go to sleep quickly and stop suffering, but she did have to try lots of times to get a vein.

tesslab

Ah Op I really feel for you. The same thing happened to me three years ago with an emergency vet we called out for our 15 year old lab. It was such an awful experience.
Strangely I met a man in my local park who had the same experience. Turned out to be the same vet!:mad: By any chance are you based in Dublin?
Just try to think of the good life you gave your dog and give yourself time to grieve. Please don't dwell on this too much. You're going through enough already. x take care Op.

Sigma Force

That's horrible, ok I know it can be hard to find a vein but from the way op described it that was not a nice way for an animal to go. Esp. when you are there watching your beloved pet being put to sleep it's traumatic enough.
I wonder could the vet not of just used gas at least to knock the dog out first the poor thing.
So sorry op you and your pooch had to go through it like that it's hard enough as it is.

summer_ina_bowl

OP, I understand that this was an awful experience for you and your poor dog, but please don't assume that the vet was being intentionally cruel.

As others have said, it is much more difficult to get a vein in an old/sick/dehydrated dog and this difficulty is greatly increased in the later stages of cancer - as large growths basically feed of the animals blood supply causeing their blood pressure to drop and their circulatory system to collapse.

Injectable sedatives and anaesthetics also cause a drop in blood pressure making it even more difficult to get a vein. This is why sedatives are not given routinely before animals are euthanasia. Oviously, as this was a home visit, knocking the dog out with gas wasn't an option.

I'm sure the vet didn't enjoy this incident one bit, in fact, it's disheartening and frustrating for them too when a euthanasia doesn't go smoothly. Vets pride themselves on making this unpleasant scenario as pain and stress free as possible for all involved - but every failed attempt to get the vein causes a little swelling in the area making the job harder - add this to the fact that your dog was a long term patient and throw in having your upset family watching his every move intently and I'm sure you can appreciate that this was an upsetting and difficult task for the vet.

I'm not saying that this situation couldn't have been handled a bit more sensitively, but I am saying that I seriously doubt your vet was intentionally cruel and that the issues here more than likely arose from the poor health of the dog and his very low blood pressure and that the vet came to your home where he had minimal equipment and trained help. I'm sorry for your loss.