7.62X51 NATO

AKA_MADNESS

Hello peep's. Two questions....

Do any of ye know of a reputable source for NATO 7.62X51 ammunition. I can get it from Duffy's in Galway but the supply is slow and travelling from Dublin adds to the cost.

Also, Can one import our own ammunition. Looking abroad, the choice is great!...

Cheers

deerhunter1

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

Hello peep's. Two questions....

Do any of ye know of a reputable source for NATO 7.62X51 ammunition. I can get it from Duffy's in Galway but the supply is slow and travelling from Dublin adds to the cost.

Also, Can one import our own ammunition. Looking abroad, the choice is great!...

Cheers

what about this stuff will deliver,

http://www.fingalsports.com/ammo.html

gunhappy_ie

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

Hello peep's. Two questions....

Do any of ye know of a reputable source for NATO 7.62X51 ammunition. I can get it from Duffy's in Galway but the supply is slow and travelling from Dublin adds to the cost.

Also, Can one import our own ammunition. Looking abroad, the choice is great!...

Cheers

7

AS deer hunter mentioned Fingal sports are a great sourse for it and like duffies they will post.

Unfortunatly, I picked up the last he had of the match stuff yesterday, but he assures me that hes getting more.

Also, I looked at the idea of importing and its prohibitive, I was looking to import several thousand rounds from luxemberg ( large volume is the only way to go or it would be cheaper buy it here.) but not only is the papertrail a mile long but its expensive......

AKA_MADNESS

deerhunter1 wrote: »

what about this stuff will deliver,

http://www.fingalsports.com/ammo.html

Thanks for that. I've tried there but supply is scarce. Cheers all the same :-)

AKA_MADNESS

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

7

AS deer hunter mentioned Fingal sports are a great sourse for it and like duffies they will post.

Unfortunatly, I picked up the last he had of the match stuff yesterday, but he assures me that hes getting more.

Also, I looked at the idea of importing and its prohibitive, I was looking to import several thousand rounds from luxemberg ( large volume is the only way to go or it would be cheaper buy it here.) but not only is the papertrail a mile long but its expensive......

Thanks for that!.:) Can I ask you are you talking about .308 Match ammunition or 7.62X51 NATO?..

I can't use .308 commercial. The chamber pressures are too high compared to the 7.62X51 NATO I need. I know externally they are like twins, but the Chamber sizes and pressures differ greatly between commercial and Military.

Military Chambers for semi-auto feeds have a greater tolerance to allow for rapid feeds and slamming etc. Military (NATO 7.62X51) wall thickness is thicker to prevent the shell from stretching too much as a result of the tolerances. As a result they contain less powder too. 58,000 Cu PSI compared to commercial 68,000 Cu PSI .308.

Its an arguable talking point. But in my case with an operating rod that could bend.... NOT :-) The Barrel is stamped for 7.62 so I'd rather not take any chances if you know what I mean.

I'd luv to buy in Bulk. But, yeah.. If the effort is too great.. I'll leave it. Unless someone is currently doing it and wants to share the how to's etc :-)

Thanks all.

gunhappy_ie

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

Thanks for that!.:) Can I ask you are you talking about .308 Match ammunition or 7.62X51 NATO?..

I can't use .308 commercial. The chamber pressures are too high compared to the 7.62X51 NATO I need. I know externally they are like twins, but the Chamber sizes and pressures differ greatly between commercial and Military.

Military Chambers for semi-auto feeds have a greater tolerance to allow for rapid feeds and slamming etc. Military (NATO 7.62X51) wall thickness is thicker to prevent the shell from stretching too much as a result of the tolerances. As a result they contain less powder too. 58,000 Cu PSI compared to commercial 68,000 Cu PSI .308.

Its an arguable talking point. But in my case with an operating rod that could bend.... NOT :-) The Barrel is stamped for 7.62 so I'd rather not take any chances if you know what I mean.

I'd luv to buy in Bulk. But, yeah.. If the effort is too great.. I'll leave it. Unless someone is currently doing it and wants to share the how to's etc :-)

Thanks all.

Thats opening up a can of worms that im not even going to go into..... but I can assure you that as a owner of sever semi auto .223s and 308s over the years you will not damage yout op rod unless you are handloading and making to hot a load.


Can i take it by Op rod youve either a M1 Grand or M1A....

AKA_MADNESS

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Thats opening up a can of worms that im not even going to go into..... but I can assure you that as a owner of sever semi auto .223s and 308s over the years you will not damage yout op rod unless you are handloading and making to hot a load.


Can i take it by Op rod youve either a M1 Grand or M1A....

yes an M1

Can of wors is right. But after much trawling, I came across this site and I'm happy to stay with 7.62 :-)
http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html

gunhappy_ie

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

yes an M1

Can of wors is right. But after much trawling, I came across this site and I'm happy to stay with 7.62 :-)
http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html

Well on a regular basis i see guns chambered in either or calibre and fireing both rounds with no bother.

I myself feed my G3 any ammo I want and never have and any problems but ... good luck on your quest for Mil surp 7.62 its out there but rare.

Another alternative would be to purchase an adjustable gas regulator, that will solve over pressure issues.

If you dont mind me asking (PM reply if you perfer) are you a member of midlands or interested in classic rifle shoots ?

AKA_MADNESS

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Well on a regular basis i see guns chambered in either or calibre and fireing both rounds with no bother.

I myself feed my G3 any ammo I want and never have and any problems but ... good luck on your quest for Mil surp 7.62 its out there but rare.

Another alternative would be to purchase an adjustable gas regulator, that will solve over pressure issues.

If you dont mind me asking (PM reply if you perfer) are you a member of midlands or interested in classic rifle shoots ?

Yes, I'm a member of Midlands. A great Club!. Luv the new layout. Missed the last Classic shoot. The text arrived the wednesday before the shoot and I had the wood stripped off for work. Typical eh?

kemen

if u fax a copy of your licence, can duffy's not post the ammo to you?

dev110

kemen wrote: »

if u fax a copy of your licence, can duffy's not post the ammo to you?

Yes you can call up and order then e-mail/post/fax a copy of your licence and they will send on the ammo. You can order it online either.

marksman9999

Hav eyou tried Jerry Scully in athlone, used to be good for sourcing different types of ammo, have had dealings with him for a while so don't know if he can help you on this one?

Sika98k

Crescent sports in Monkstown,Co.Dublin had some a while back and may still do. 01-2808988

Tackleberrywho

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

Hello peep's. Two questions....

Do any of ye know of a reputable source for NATO 7.62X51 ammunition. I can get it from Duffy's in Galway but the supply is slow and travelling from Dublin adds to the cost.

Also, Can one import our own ammunition. Looking abroad, the choice is great!...

Cheers

just wondering.
Is there an adjustable gas port on your rifle?
If there is not; opening up the gas port a tau would allow more gas to be used to cycle and reduce the pressure of .308.

On most 7.62x51 i have used have an adjustable gas port.

just a thought.
I do not know if it would work for your set up.

gunhappy_ie

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Another alternative would be to purchase an adjustable gas regulator, that will solve over pressure issues.

QUOTE]

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

just wondering.
Is there an adjustable gas port on your rifle?
If there is not; opening up the gas port a tau would allow more gas to be used to cycle and reduce the pressure of .308.

On most 7.62x51 i have used have an adjustable gas port.

just a thought.
I do not know if it would work for your set up.

Already mentioned :P

And is IMO the best option as you can tune the rifle to suit a particular type of ammo.

The M1 Grands dont have an adjustable gas system as standard but can be refitted quiet easliy with after market parts.

(who remembers the FN ?? close the gas system so. fired gun wont recock, adjust up 1 click, fire adjust up 1, fire adjust up 1 until the gun will fire in semi auto then add 2 more clicks to allow for reliability issues)

OPENING THE GAS PORT IS COMPELTELY THE WRONG ADVICE !

By opening the gas port you will increase the amount of gas used to recock the rifle, thus increasing recoil and wear/tear.

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Another alternative would be to purchase an adjustable gas regulator, that will solve over pressure issues.
QUOTE]




Already mentioned :P

And is IMO the best option as you can tune the rifle to suit a particular type of ammo.

The M1 Grands dont have an adjustable gas system as standard but can be refitted quiet easliy with after market parts.

(who remembers the FN ?? close the gas system so. fired gun wont recock, adjust up 1 click, fire adjust up 1, fire adjust up 1 until the gun will fire in semi auto then add 2 more clicks to allow for reliability issues)

OPENING THE GAS PORT IS COMPELTELY THE WRONG ADVICE !

By opening the gas port you will increase the amount of gas used to recock the rifle, thus increasing recoil and wear/tear.

FN was before my time, FN Mag maybe.

I was just questioning the topic.
adding another gas port that vented off to atmosphere would reduce the pressure (it may cause other problems though)

Closing the gas Port increases chamber pressure.
The OP wants to reduce chamber pressure, if I am reading his post correctly.

If his chamber pressure is reduced he can then fire .308's and not have any issues.

I'd prefer to have a rifle that could fire regular Target/hunting ammo than Mil spec stuff

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

just wondering.
Is there an adjustable gas port on your rifle?
If there is not; opening up the gas port a tau would allow more gas to be used to cycle and reduce the pressure of .308.

On most 7.62x51 i have used have an adjustable gas port.

just a thought.
I do not know if it would work for your set up.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

FN was before my time, FN Mag maybe.

I was just questioning the topic.
adding another gas port that vented off to atmosphere would reduce the pressure (it may cause other problems though)

Closing the gas Port increases chamber pressure.
The OP wants to reduce chamber pressure, if I am reading his post correctly.

If his chamber pressure is reduced he can then fire .308's and not have any issues.

I'd prefer to have a rifle that could fire regular Target/hunting ammo than Mil spec stuff

Firstly the OP is worried about bending the OP rod (I assume causing unnessessary wear too) on his M1 Grand. While there are different pressures on different types of ammo chamber perssure shouldnt be a concern as his chamber will take that pressure. Perhaps if he had an vietmam era M16 then he should be worried as 5.56 has changed since it first appeared on the scene.

Where you seem to be getting confused is what a opening/closing a gas port will do, you firstly started that "opening up the gas port a tau would allow more gas to be used to cycle and reduce the pressure of .308." Then said "adding another gas port that vented off to atmosphere would reduce the pressure (it may cause other problems though)" and lastly "Closing the gas Port increases chamber pressure."

Ill start with the last statement "Closing the gas Port increases chamber pressure.".....short answer NO because as there is X amount of powder to burn it in Y amount of space, thats what will dictate pressure.

Ill take the first and second statement as 1 as they contradict each other. "opening up the gas port a tau would allow more gas to be used to cycle and reduce the pressure of .308." Opening the gas port from barrel to gas block or gas block to OP rod will increase the amount of gas that goes through the recocking system. Increased gas well recock the gun harder and faster than its origional design this is what the OP wants to avoid as that will damage his gun. "adding another gas port that vented off to atmosphere would reduce the pressure (it may cause other problems though)" Correct but incorrest, it will reduce pressure on the OP rod and mechanism but chamber pressure will stay the same. The other problems that you havent mentioned is that the gun will effectivly be turned into a single shot.

Heres a good example..... A guy I know had an M1 for a while, he had very little rounds through the barrel (she was a .308) but couldnt figure out why the gun wouldnt fire as a semi. Everytime you pulled the trigger the round would fire off but the gun would only recock halfway or so, not be able to eject the spent casing and not feed the next round into the chamber. So he asked for my advice, firstly I asked what ammo he was using and checked the gas block to see if grease was blocking up the ports, we ruled that out as it was a good batch of ammo that he was using and the gas ports were clean. We chatted more he said how he was waiting for an adjustable gas block to arrive and see if that would solve the problem. Long story short..... It turns out that he had purchased a set of + power springs and put them in the gun from day 1.

Point being, there was sufficent gas within the ammuntion that he was using to recock the gun just that with the imbalence of the springs it couldnt. Had he used the adjustable gas block it possibly would have worked but in his case he would have had to put alot more gas through the gun to get it to work.

The in OPs case adding an adjustable gas plug to solve all his problems ...

Adjutable gas plug......

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146#productTabReviews

Great video about that gas plug..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZR4vE89H9I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFyUhSwIcMw

Tackleberrywho

Now we seem to be getting to the nuts and bolts of the situation.

Suffice it to say, the OP need not try and get 7.62x51 and instead get .308 if he retro fits some parts.

I missed your post earlier in the thread, however I am glad I did, as now I have a better understanding of the Gas cycling system Vs Porting etc.;)

clivej

Or get .308 Hornaday Garand 168gr ammo made just for the Garand M1.

Tackleberrywho

30-06 Springfield 168 gr A-MAX® M1 Garand

Clive

I think it is only in .30-06????

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-06-168-gr-A-MAX-M1-Garand/


Ballistics

Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2700/2719 2513/2355 2333/2030 2161/1742 1996/1486 1839/1261
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
-0.90 2.30 0.00 -8.70 -24.90 -49.80

clivej

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

30-06 Springfield 168 gr A-MAX® M1 Garand

Clive

I think it is only in .30-06????

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-06-168-gr-A-MAX-M1-Garand/


Ballistics

Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2700/2719 2513/2355 2333/2030 2161/1742 1996/1486 1839/1261
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
-0.90 2.30 0.00 -8.70 -24.90 -49.80

Yes your correct

"I was wrong once but it was a mistake".

Tackleberrywho

clivej wrote: »

Yes your correct

"I was wrong once but it was a mistake".

One would have thought someone would make 7.62/.308 speck for all those semi's on the US market

Seems like D*** was selling Pokies saying they were .308!

gunhappy_ie

Being an ex service rifle there still are literally millions of rounds available surplus which many americans can still buy and use (eg google search http://www.ammogarand.com/3006ammo.html
http://www.thecmp.org/ammosales.htm) in there origional chambered 30- 06 guns.

For those who use modern ammo they either dont care and fire away or use an adjustable gas plug.

Hornady are good to cash in on the comercial aspect of the american market with there ammo being of high quality but to origional specs.

I believe its more a european thing to rebarrel guns to .308 and IMO rightly so especially here in Ireland where (from what Ive been told as I havent a 30-06.. yet :P) there is far more selection of ammo in 308 than 30-06.

clivej

I was thinking of getting a Garand at one time and did a bit reading up on them. From what I can remember the Garand in the original spec was 30-06 and then reduced to 308 in the late 50's. Not all of the 308's had the gas ports of the correct size to allow for the recycling system to work correctly and needed to have them drilled out bigger for correct operation.

But don't take my word on that.


http://yarchive.net/gun/rifle/garand_308.html
"As the M1s were first being converted, it was found that in test firing, the
gas supplied to the op rod to function the rifle was not quite enough with the
standard 30 caliber barrels's gas port diameter. These holes had to be opened
up a few thousandths of an inch. It was a standard operating procedure that
when a new 7.62mm M1 barrel was pulled from the box to go in a rifle, the gas
port was drilled out. The second thing that was done was to knurl the barrel
where the lower band went so it would be a tighter fit."

AKA_MADNESS

dev110 wrote: »

Yes you can call up and order then e-mail/post/fax a copy of your licence and they will send on the ammo. You can order it online either.

Thanks for that. He's completely out. Has been for some time.

AKA_MADNESS

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

FN was before my time, FN Mag maybe.

I was just questioning the topic.
adding another gas port that vented off to atmosphere would reduce the pressure (it may cause other problems though)

Closing the gas Port increases chamber pressure.
The OP wants to reduce chamber pressure, if I am reading his post correctly.

If his chamber pressure is reduced he can then fire .308's and not have any issues.

I'd prefer to have a rifle that could fire regular Target/hunting ammo than Mil spec stuff

Finally ordered a couple of Adjustable Gas regulator plugs. Should allow me use any Commercial .308 ammo. Thanks for all the good advice. :-)

gunhappy_ie

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Finally ordered a couple of Adjustable Gas regulator plugs. Should allow me use any Commercial .308 ammo. Thanks for all the good advice. :-)

A couple ?? did you order different types to try out ???

AKA_MADNESS

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

A couple ?? did you order different types to try out ???

No two (In case anything ever happens to it) of the same by Schuster. They come with a wrench to adjust and a locking screw to keep it at the setting desired.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146

gunhappy_ie

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

No two (In case anything ever happens to it) of the same by Schuster. They come with a wrench to adjust and a locking screw to keep it at the setting desired.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146

Cool.... Shame we cant get you to the classic rifle shoot tomorrow 03/04/2011 in kerry

Post up pics when ya get time

AKA_MADNESS

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

AKA_MADNESS wrote: »

Cool.... Shame we cant get you to the classic rifle shoot tomorrow 03/04/2011 in kerry

Post up pics when ya get time

Some Pics for you. Hope the classic shoot in Kerry went well. :-)

AKA_MADNESS

bump!