Sky + and Landlord dish removal...Advice needed.

robd

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Merely because a case hasn't be taken as yet. EU law would supercede here, making the clause illegal.

I'm pretty sure the case could be made under the competition act too, as to enforce these rules, the landlord would essentially be giving 1 company a monopoly in the complex.

That's not really going to solve the problem in the short to medium term though. The likely winners in this one would be the solicitors. God only knows the costs.

The best the OP can do is talk to other tenants and establish a relationship with them, finding out if they've the same issue, all with a view to getting a communal dish. A workable solution basically.

It's a good bit of work but if he generally feels that UPC is no good and absolutely wants Sky then that's what he needs to do. Get a petition going, set up a committee etc.

No amount of complaining or tooing and froing on this board is going to resolve the issue.

Dublin_Gunner

Paulw wrote: »

Vital nugget.

It's not the landlord who is making the rules, it's the management company.

Aside from which, you are forbidden from mounting a dish, but not from receiving a satellite signal. Dishes do not have to be mounted outside, and can be used through a window, so even then, I doubt this European directive (it's not an actual law), would apply.

The competition law would not come in to play either, since again, you are only forbidden from erecting a dish externally. You can have one internal.

I'd love to know how to receive a satellite signal without a dish of some sort!

If no other placement of a dish apart from externally to the property, allows you receive a signal, then their rules are restricting your right of service.

As I said its not straightforward.

Paulw

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I'd love to know how to receive a satellite signal without a dish of some sort!

If no other placement of a dish apart from externally to the property, allows you receive a signal, then their rules are restricting your right of service.

As I said its not straightforward.

Definitely not straightforward, and it's so complex no one is ever likely to take a case to court over it.

Firstly, I can't see how a court can grant you a right to mount a dish on property you don't own (you only have a lease. Technically the management company own the property.

You can receive a satellite signal with a dish mounted indoors (through a window). The dish doesn't need (absolutely need) to be mounted outdoors.

Yeah, this is something that can be discussed in many many ways, but until there is case law, the management company have the legal right to enforce the no dish policy.

So, bottom line for the OP in this case, is that he must obey the landlord.

Bazzy

i've seen dishes mounted on tripods on balconies not braking any rules with regards to moutning of dishes.

There are some management companies that went and removed peoples satellite dishes in a complex in dublin. As they didnt own the dishes they left them for the residents in there parking space.

They then sent the residents a bill for removing said dishes and filling in the holes left by them ....

JustAddWater

There are quite a lot of smart arses and people giving you opinions (not options) I shall give you an option that no-one else has suggested yet (can't believe nobody mentioned it!)

why not get UPC standard (since you get setanta as you liked) and simply buy a PVR or DVDR/PVR

Something like this http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2662253/art/lg/rht-497h-dvd-recorder.html would work

I'm sure that you can find your own that suits your budget.

RE: The dish.... I'm afraid that it'll have to come down. Never mind the other apartments, they may or may not be in a similar situation

The everyone else is doing it so why can't we attitude isn't going to help or cut it in this situtation... It's only going to make you look bad if you push the maintainence company or landlord

athtrasna

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Merely because a case hasn't be taken as yet. EU law would supercede here, making the clause illegal.

I'm pretty sure the case could be made under the competition act too, as to enforce these rules, the landlord would essentially be giving 1 company a monopoly in the complex.

Its certainly not straight forward, but a case could be made.


Its been discussed many times in the satellite forum oer the years.

Here's a post with relevant info and links
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57366766&postcount=11

Sounding like a broken record but here I go again - the EU ruling is that people can't be prohibited from receiving satellite broadcasts from their home countries. That means, that the government can't block signals. It does not mean that every house in the country has to have satellite access. It is up to individuals to select accommodation that enables them to receive satellite feed. By renting/buying in a development that clearly does not allow satellites, a person would not be entitled to erect a dish.

Not relevant to the OP but the EU thing comes up time after time and some people totally misunderstand the context.

athtrasna

Bazzy wrote: »

i've seen dishes mounted on tripods on balconies not braking any rules with regards to moutning of dishes.

There are some management companies that went and removed peoples satellite dishes in a complex in dublin. As they didnt own the dishes they left them for the residents in there parking space.

They then sent the residents a bill for removing said dishes and filling in the holes left by them ....

Technically the person erecting the dish could be charged with criminal damage as they don't own the external walls that they drilled through in the first place.

Dublin_Gunner

athtrasna wrote: »

Sounding like a broken record but here I go again - the EU ruling is that people can't be prohibited from receiving satellite broadcasts from their home countries. That means, that the government can't block signals. It does not mean that every house in the country has to have satellite access. It is up to individuals to select accommodation that enables them to receive satellite feed. By renting/buying in a development that clearly does not allow satellites, a person would not be entitled to erect a dish.

Not relevant to the OP but the EU thing comes up time after time and some people totally misunderstand the context.

No it doesn't, it does help enforce that though. It relates to the freedom of satellite services across member states of the EU - your home nationality makes no difference.

Surely, if I live within my home country, then my right to watch my home countries satellite signals are preserved also?? You contradict yourself in misunderstanding.

I'd like you to read 2 EU articles:
EU Press release 2001

Concerns of an architectural and town-planning nature, which are often cited in this context, can be met by solutions which make it possible, where necessary and technically feasible, to minimise the visual and aesthetic impact of satellite dishes without impairing quality of reception, under reasonable conditions and at reasonable cost; such solutions can, for example, involve the location of the dish (indoors rather than outdoors) or the type of dish (e.g. a collective dish rather than numerous individual dishes).

Obstacles to freedom of user choice
The choice of technology, like the choice of services, rests entirely with the user. It is therefore unacceptable to influence such choices, for example, by penalising or otherwise discouraging the use of satellite dishes, or requiring satellite dish users to receive particular services or channels.

COMMUNICATION FROM THE COMMISSION ON THE APPLICATION OF THE GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS AND SERVICES

II. The free movement of goods and services and satellite dishes: general principles
By virtue of the principles of the free movement of goods (Articles 28 to 30 EC) and the free movement of services (Articles 49 et seq. EC, as interpreted in the light of Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights), as a rule, every individual who wishes to have access to a satellite dish must have that opportunity.

[23] See the following judgments: Brasserie du Pêcheur, Joined Cases C-46/93 and C-48/93; Case 14/83; Case 106/89; Fratelli Costanzo, Case 103/88. Moreover, the Court added that the liability of a Member State arises whatever the agency of the State whose action or inaction was the cause of the failure to fulfil its obligations, even in the case of a constitutionally independent institution (see the Commission vs Belgium judgment, Case 77-69, and Case 71/81). Moreover, the rights created by the free movement of services may be relied upon by individuals against organisations or bodies which, whatever their legal status, are subject to the authority or control of the State or have special powers beyond those which result from the normal rules applicable in relations between individuals (cf. judgment C-188/89). This extensively refers both to acts issued by the public authorities and to those issued by bodies which are legally considered private, but on whom the public authorities exercise a decisive influence by appointing directors, providing funding, etc. (see the Commission vs France judgment, Case 21/84; and the "Buy Irish" judgement referred to in note 22).

You may stop being a broken record now.

Paulw

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

such solutions can, for example, involve the location of the dish (indoors rather than outdoors) or the type of dish (e.g. a collective dish rather than numerous individual dishes).

Just as you quoted - the dish can be used indoors. Therefore the complex does not automatically have to grant permission to externally erect a dish.

Either way, none of this applies to the OP, since he can't receive satellite signal from his unit, and had previously mounted a dish on a separate unit, which he was not renting.

athtrasna

That still says everyone has the right, but not that everyone has the right everywhere! Freedom of movement and freedom of choice still apply. The opportunity arises in the choice of location.

Same way as if I want access to public transport, I live in an area that has it. I don't move half way up a mountain and demand it.