Person of Interest [** Spoilers **]

gordongekko

How come she could make it through a vent when the rest couldn't?

Turtwig

gordongekko wrote: »

How come she could make it through a vent when the rest couldn't?

Presumably because it was a really narrow crawl space and a funnel of death for bullets. It does beg the question though why didn't they just enter the facility that way?

gordongekko

Turtwig wrote: »

Presumably because it was a really narrow crawl space and a funnel of death for bullets. It does beg the question though why didn't they just enter the facility that way?

How come they hid behind a counter when bullets were coming through the door and then ran to the left of the door meaning they ran across a bullet ridden door only to run past it again to open it?

Turtwig

gordongekko wrote: »

How come they hid behind a counter when bullets were coming through the door and then ran to the left of the door meaning they ran across a bullet ridden door only to run past it again to open it?

To be fair that's like asking how come they have to continually cock their guns. Or why there's sparks off ricochets? Or why Reese actually let Finch or anyone stack up on the weak exposed side of walls? (In like just about every single episode!) Or why these samaritan agents who set the trap couldn't have just blockade the exits - and waited. Or planted explosives? Or why the machine didn't run its simulations the second it realised they were trapped? Every second is an infinity to it? Or why can we so clearly hear their dialogue when they're shooting? Or why on earth at the end there didn't Root/Shaw pop each other's ear drums, they were quite literally firing their weapons across the other's heads and having a clear conversation?

Once you start down this road the universe of the show collapses. So, in the POI universe we ignore those things. Otherwise it'd be hard to enjoy.

It's a bit like asking why the bullet bills in Mario games aren't actual bullets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTvx61Pgew8

Shaw also did get access codes from the head security honcho

don ramo

while i am not happy that shaw is dead, id really hate for her to come back at some point, this is probably the most conflicting episode of the series yet, i mean there seems to be no clear outcome, which i dont like, if they wanted to write shaw out for a while this is probably one of the worst ways they could have done it, if she comes back and is on samaritans side im gonna be really pissed, its now been 2 full season of since the show switched it into high gear and never looked back or second guessed itself, it'd be terrible if it started now, make the decision and move on,

i'm also pissed that shaw didn't take down blondie with her, shes really annoying me, i know shes supposed to be a baddie, but thats no reason for her to be a robot, im surprised they haven't rectified that yet, with some of the great things they do on this show, its odd that such a small thing annoys me

it was a great episode somehow, i dunno how cause a few things really annoyed me in it, but it was great, some funny dialogue, great action, the moves and counter-moves of each simulation,

also as someone pointed out about the 13 Vs 22 episode thing, someone made a good point that the characters are a bit more wooden, while i dont think that is the case, the characters are committed to what their doing, with little to no attachment to other people, which is what makes it work, most shows would have loads of love interests, wifes, girlfriends, drama coming from all angles, this works cause there is a singular focus on the plot, and little to no variation in between, season 3 was probably one the most consistently paced 22 episode season of tv i have ever watched, 1 maybe 2 filler episodes, and every other episode sticking to the main plot point of the show, in one form or another, there was no let up on the overall story in any episode,

Turtwig

They might reveal in the next episode whether Shaw is alive or not. Hopefully that's exactly what they do. I think it could work if she's kept alive and tortured for intel. Not so sure I like the idea of her becoming an analog interface for Samaritan.

As deco pointed out, in TV unless there's a completely unambiguous shot showing they're dead then the character is possibly not dead. They never showed the samaritan agent performing the final shot so it's still up in the air. My preference is for her to be dead and possibly have another new member join the gang at some point. For now, though have them suffer, wounded and deflated.

Also is anyone else disappointed that they've removed the ambiguity on who the 'bad' machine is? I kind of wish they kept us guessing Samaritan's ethical code for another while longer. The Samaritan 'threat' is now oozing towards a cross between Hydra and the 1984 state.

Ageyev

gordongekko wrote: »

How come she could make it through a vent when the rest couldn't?

Deus ex machina.

Occono

I knew someone was going to die, but I thought for sure it would be Fusco.

Shaw...was a shock.

Lucas Hood

Occono wrote: »

I knew someone was going to die, but I thought for sure it would be Fusco.

Shaw...was a shock.

You don't actually see her die. Unless you see someone die on tv there is always a possibility they're still alive.

MargeS

Occono wrote: »

I knew someone was going to die, but I thought for sure it would be Fusco.

Shaw...was a shock.

The clue was given when Finch tried to explain to the machine during the chess game about sacrificing the Queen.

MargeS

MargeS wrote: »

The clue was given when Finch tried to explain to the machine during the chess game about sacrificing the Queen.

The Queen is the most powerful piece on the board, that's not Shaw.

Root would equate to the Queen. She is in contact with the machine and has massive tactical advantages due to this.

Harold is the King. Lose him and it is game over but he is no physical threat.

That chess game was for to show the machine learning and also to throw a massive red herring towards the viewer, regarding who would die. (In fact it shows Harold teaching the machine that no one can be sacrificed, by it. Someone making the choice to sacrifice their own life is a different matter )

Penn

There's no way Shaw's alive. Not a hope. In fact bringing her back in a non-flashback would seriously weaken the show.

It's also easy enough to determine why they all couldn't leave through the vent Shaw came in. She's small and extremely agile. The others likely wouldn't fit or wouldn't make it (especially Fusco and Harold). Not a big enough plot point to worry about in my opinion

Anyway, only starter watching the show before Xmas so have binge watched the past few weeks. What a show. The premise doesn't do the show justice, it's an incredibly well crafted and well written show.

Occono

Lucas Hood wrote: »

You don't actually see her die. Unless you see someone die on tv there is always a possibility they're still alive.

Yeah I've seen since that previews and interviews have all but confirmed she didn't. Which...seems a bit odd. Not that there's no explanation I could imagine for it, but it really committed to it being for real in the episode.

DeWitt

The anticipation for tonight's episode is killing me.

Yeah, am out of this thread until tomorrow evening at the earliest

Agent Coulson

A really really interesting episode and has opened a whole new bag of questions.

DeWitt

Yeah, loving the way they've set this all up. I do hope we get to see more and more of Grice too. He's already a great character.
I really enjoyed the kid as Samaritan's analogue during his first appearance, but it wasn't working for me this time. I kept imagining the choral segment from The Omen during his scenes.

Mr E

It took a lot of confidence by the writers to come at the Shaw resolution from an unexpected angle - it was 20 minutes before we even saw the regulars.

Brilliant episode. The White House adds a whole new layer to the story (and a very interesting one too).

Tokyo

Another very interesting episode I thought. Probably disappointing to those who were expecting an explosion fuelled 'let's-get-Shaw' episode, but almost felt like the pilot episode of a spin-off show to me. Takes the characters in a whole new direction, and opens up a whole range of new storylines, IMO. It'll be interesting to see what they do with it.

drugstore cowboy

Outstanding episode. Great acting and I really enjoyed the other side getting some air time to show us more insight into their operation.

Axwell

Nice finish to the trilogy and sets up a few new storylines. Good to see Control back in the game. Can see a common interest develop between the team and Control to take down Samaritan but there being a lack of trust the whole time and no doubt some double cross along the way. The one part i didnt like was actually the White House part. Made it feel more Hollywood or just a step too far for me. The show has its own groups and factions in control and previously HR etc. It rarely uses real live organisations or government agencies such as the FBI as central parts to episodes so really hope they dont go too much into the White House stuff and have someone playing the president etc.

Not really sure on the whole Gabriel thing either as part of that. It makes sense to have a kid, after all Samaritan is much younger than the machine in terms of existence so a child makes sense and I enjoyed his initial interactions but the whole 'I want to talk to the president' for me just took it a bit too far. Its clearly to show the levels Samaritan will go to and getting experts to do its dirty work in the part of the 4 software guys who it then kills off making them appear a threat.

Love the show and a great episode, interested to see where it goes from here and when we get to see the Elias story arc come back into play. Can see this series end towards a big move by Samaritan that means all the parties have to come together in some way to try take it down which could be very interesting.

Turtwig

Interesting episode. Very much liked the control centric angle.

Really disappointed with Samaritan as the 'villian' though. The 'white house' stuff is too maniacal. The use of a kid just pushed the entire premise too far. In the earlier episode the kid was brilliant, but as a conduit to the whitehouse, it doesn't work on any level and the hopes I had for Samaritan at the start of the season are truly dashed. It's basically Hyrda now.

ixoy

I've always liked Control so I was very happy with an episode centred around her. I honestly thought she'd let the programmer go but glad they had a bit more nerve and have her shoot him. Her little tour at the end worked better.

I'll agree it's a little disappointing with Samaritan but I figure they're going to go with "the greater good at any cost" path. It fits in a little with how Harold told the Machine that you can never sacrifice anyone to win the game. Samaritan has not been told that and will do what it needs to do to win the game. Its goal though is - hopefully! - benevolent in a twisted way. Seize power to bring about its order which will see it in charge but as a benevolent dictator. That'd be in keeping with what we've seen so far.
The kid-as-proxy though is a bit daft.

MOH

Really enjoyed that, seeing Root and Reese going on their rampage via news reports was a nice angle.
I actually thought they were going to go back to that next week, and the whole Control thing was a separate issue - the bit where she was told her regular security team had been conveniently taken out by the masked duo really looked like Samaritan was setting her up. Should have known that would be too obvious.
They managed to open up a whole new can of worms while still progressing the hunt for Shaw - pretty good use of 40-odd minutes.
Nice to see a reference back to Nautilus at the end.

Yeah, the kid, not working for me at all in this ep.

I'd also somehow thought Grice's partner was Samaritan's blonde. No idea how I made that mistake. She looks nothing like her.
Her or Grice for the Samaritan mole.

(Ah! True Detective is where I know the guy with the Samaritan remote from!)

Turtwig

ixoy wrote: »

I've always liked Control so I was very happy with an episode centred around her. I honestly thought she'd let the programmer go but glad they had a bit more nerve and have her shoot him. Her little tour at the end worked better.

Don't think she had a choice, really. She was always the pragmatic mission first sort. Samaritan already suspected her. If she didn't shoot the programmer Samaritan would most likely just have retired her. She doesn't know yet who the enemy is but it's clear she's suspicious. If she's to save her country she's going to have to act like normal until the time is right to strike.

As others have said, even though she'll ally with 'team machine' I suspect she's going to betray them once the Samaritan threat is removed.

Kind of hoping that Grice (is that his name?) dude is going to be the next Shaw. I like him.
What I absolutely do not want to see as a "resolution" is Samaritan surviving on some isolated flash drive/computer somewhere when they think they've made it extinct. I'm just stating that now, to get it out of the way.

Mr. G

I really enjoyed that show, in particular the fact that Control was always there.

I think Control's colleague/boss next to the President (don't know his name?) may get suspicious. His role might be important in Samartain's aim to get at the President.

Turtwig wrote: »

Don't think she had a choice, really. She was always the pragmatic mission first sort. Samaritan already suspected her. If she didn't shoot the programmer Samaritan would most likely just have retired her. She doesn't know yet who the enemy is but it's clear she's suspicious. If she's to save her country she's going to have to act like normal until the time is right to strike.

I wonder could it be possible that the Machine's Team would be helped by Control?

Control is suspicious. I just really hope she keeps acting cool and stops at the last minute.

At the end of the show, when she rubbed her finger on the wall revealing paint, this sort of clarifies her suspicion.

Having said this, I would be disappointed if the next show only focuses on Shaw and not the rest of it.

FreudianSlippers

Excellent episode and they dealt with the Shaw thing perfectly IMHO. It's still up in the air, but it looks like she may still be alive. This seems like it might be a good way to deal with Shahi's pregnancy and allow her to return as a regular next season (hopefully!)

Mr. G

The actor that plays Shaw is pregnant.

Sort of a spoiler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JklMYpv7bPE

don ramo

Mr. G wrote: »

The actor that plays Shaw is pregnant.

i think we all know that,