the so call 30day rule

Moloko17

Are the iska rules the same in the UK as they are in the USA? Beacuse i have went through the rules and all i can see about this 30day rule is its only 30days you cant comepete on another show if knocked out and 7days otherwise?


So could someone please show me where it says in the iska rule set that you can not compete on another show if competing on an iska sanctioned show, which is being stated by a certain promotion? As i believe this is just being inforced to cause conflict between promotors and shows!!

mark.leonard

Moloko17 wrote: »

Are the iska rules the same in the UK as they are in the USA? Beacuse i have went through the rules and all i can see about this 30day rule is its only 30days you cant comepete on another show if knocked out and 7days otherwise?


So could someone please show me where it says in the iska rule set that you can not compete on another show if competing on an iska sanctioned show, which is being stated by a certain promotion? As i believe this is just being inforced to cause conflict between promotors and shows!!

Its a common enough safety constraint. I only know of one ISKA sanctioned MMA show though, am I wrong?

pablohoney87

I cant really talk for the promoter but I think the 30 day rule applies to before their show i.e. they dont want you fighting in the run up to their show. In case of a ko where you would have to pull out of the show.

mark.leonard

I think Cage Contender, Cage Wars and Clan Wars all employ this rule.
A fighter is not medically cleared to fight for up to 30 days after a concussion, so if you are a promoter and don't want to risk losing a fight on your card, you lock them into a 30 day rule.
Makes sense to me.

John Ferguson

mark.leonard wrote: »

I think Cage Contender, Cage Wars and Clan Wars all employ this rule.
A fighter is not medically cleared to fight for up to 30 days after a concussion.

We use a 28 day lock out for all fighters fighting on a Cage Contender card. This is simply to safegaurd the fight card. The medics that we use will not clear anyone to fight who has had a KO or TKO in the 28 days prior. As far as i am aware most pro boxing is the same 4 weeks (28 Days).

Barry mentioned in the other thread that you cannot hold any non pro fighter to a contract, i'm not sure this is the case as the opinion i got a while ago was different. Money does not need to change hands to make a contract binding providing the fighter is over 18 years old (Mind you it is doubtful that a promoter would chase a contract due to the cost unless he was trying to make a point). I personally don't like using contracts with the semi pro lads but due to the sheer volume of shows around now as promoters we need to safegaurd our cards (I admit that there are many clubs who will always turn up when they say, but sadly there are many who will not)

I just had a look at the ISKA website as Moloko has mentioned and i too could only find the paragraph that said 7 days in general but 30 days after a knock out. But that said it was the worldwide HQ site and not the UK website that i found it on. Maybe the contracts are different to the rules on the website, as i dont run a sanctioned event im not sure how they work tbh. Also just to point out I'm not getting at Clan Wars here, they always put on a decent show and im looking forward to being one of the 750 or so at the Ulster Hall in May which they will no doubt sell out!!!!

IFS.NI

Moloko17 wrote: »

As i believe this is just being inforced to cause conflict between promotors and shows!!

Certainly not.

You can now see Cage Contender have a 28 day rule and are not sanctioned, why is it so hard for you to believe that the ISKA have a 30 day one.

Mark has also commented on why a ruling is used.

Heres 2 quotes from two other ISKA Promoters just to clear up any queries you have -

Question sent by me -

Hi guys,

There is a dispute by a few members on the boards.ie forum were some people in the Irish MMA community seem to think I have plucked the 30 day ruling out of the sky because some shows who are not sanctioned have a 28 day ruling, can you confirm as seperate MMA events also using the ISKA as a sanctioning body your views please

Answer from Darren Sherlock - Fight Ikon (ISKA Sanctioned)

"Yes it's definately 30 days ban, not only following a KO but also a TKO. I wasn't allowed to have Leeroy Barnes fight on Fight Ikon 4 due to him having a TKO in another event before mine which is ISKA sanctioned. It should be standard on any MMA event for fighters safety but unfortunately not all shows care about fighters safety"

Answer Alistair Petit - Fight UK - (ISKA Sanctioned)

'Same as what Darren has said Paul. I have the 30 rule in the contract. Cheers '

Conclusion -

So thats another 2 seperate ISKA shows saying the same thing on the 30 day ruling, if anyone wants to waste my time further I can get a statement from the UK Director also but I think the proof shown at the minute should be more than enough.

Its not a youth club where people can jump in and out willy nilly - its also not done to annoy anyone, its a serious MMA event run as professionally as possible.

What serious promotion is going to let a fighter fight within the knock out peroid with the risk of the guy having to pull out due to being KO'd/TKO'd - fight cards all over the world would be a shambles! Cards are bad enough with pull outs as it is with injuries, flu's/colds and time wasters - ask any promoter, its a bloody nightmare !

The 28 day or 30 day ruling is used all over the UK and Europe depending on promoter or if they are sanctioned. Clan Wars, Fight Ikon and Fight Force (Fight Uk) for example are sanctioned so have to use the 30 day rule, Cage Contender for example are not sanctioned so can use what ever ruling they see fit and are using the 28 day rule,fighters and teams agree to the conditions of each event and thats it - peroid. Either they agree to the terms or they dont agree.

I cant make it any clearer than that and have explained myself 3 times now and backed up the ISKA 30 day ruling with 2 seperate ISKA events and wont be commenting again on the matter.

scudzilla

Anybody remember that BAMMA fight between Watson & Reid a few months back, that was a huge fight for BAMMA as live on tv and the promotion was all over the place, yet Watson fought in Canada 2 weeks before.
That to me was ridiculous on BAMMA's behalf, not putting the 30 day rule into Watson's contract.

IFS.NI

fightie wrote: »

. Also just to point out I'm not getting at Clan Wars here, they always put on a decent show and im looking forward to being one of the 750 or so at the Ulster Hall in May which they will no doubt sell out!!!!

LOL Shameless self plug on numbers but your nearly right, theres 1000 tickets out as the choir seats and stage are being used so should be plenty to create a good atmosphere in the place

Good luck with the show on Saturday.

Peace

Moloko17

paul on another thread you said it is for fighters safety, but why do you not just be honest like fight.ie member stated that it is to protect his card? As if you did so no one or i would have an agruement to state, so if your honest it is just to protect your card and you profits is it not?

cowzerp

In fairness Paul is iska sanctioned and has to work within that organisations rules, he does not make the rules so can only do as the sanctioning body says, going on about it is beating a dead horse as Paul cant change the rules.

John Ferguson

IFS.NI wrote: »

LOL Shameless self plug on numbers but your nearly right, theres 1000 tickets out as the choir seats and stage are being used so should be plenty to create a good atmosphere in the place

Good luck with the show on Saturday.

Peace

Cheers and good luck with Mervs fight at the weekend!!!

I'm shocked you were able to get 1000 tickets for the Ulster Hall, the main reason CC turned the Ulster Hall down 9 months ago was that the capacity was only 936, when we took seats out for the cage, officials, 1.6m gaps etc etc the most we could find space for was 753 even with the stage being used. Im sure the atmos will be great and I for one am really looking forward to it!!

:cool: Peace

John Ferguson

IFS.NI wrote: »

Certainly not.

Answer from Darren Sherlock - Fight Ikon (ISKA Sanctioned)

"Yes it's definately 30 days ban, not only following a KO but also a TKO. I wasn't allowed to have Leeroy Barnes fight on Fight Ikon 4 due to him having a TKO in another event before mine which is ISKA sanctioned. It should be standard on any MMA event for fighters safety but unfortunately not all shows care about fighters safety"

I remember this one because Leeroy had been beaten TKO by Warren Kee on Cage Contender 6 in Manchester. If my memory serves me correctly TV footage was requested by Sherlock Promotions from CC after the TKO to prove it was a TKO. If it was not a TKO Leeroy would have been still allowed to fight on Ikon (2 weeks later). Just to try and put this subject to bed, if a fighter is not beaten by KO or TKO can he still fight in an ISKA event within 30 days?

SDTimeout

Sanctioned , Professional , Amateur or otherwise. Any show using a 28 day rule is one we should appreciate as fighter safety is the key issue surely ?

Barry.Oglesby

Stall the digger there now Paul, I wasn't saying you plucked this from nowhere. I'm quite sure this is a valid rule in ISKA. My point is that it's unfair on amateur fighters.

I have a small mainly amateur team. My plan for these guys is for them to fight as many amateur bouts as they can, as often as they can so that they can rack up experience and cage time. If I was to book one of them on your show, then they would have 30 days in which they could not fight. It doesn't seem like a lot but a bit like buses, fights tend to come in threes, and so do amateur fighter's opportunities to fight. Due to work or study commitments, many amateurs can only fight in certain "windows". If 3 fights come along in an 8 week window, and they don't suffer concussion or other injury, then you or anyone else are impeding their development as athletes by not allowing them to get some game time in.

The "fighter safety is a must" line has been trotted out enough. We all know it and we all look after our people. So I don't think we're progressing the discussion any further by stating that in the case of KO or TKO a fighter should have a compulsory break. So let's get down to brass tacks.

If a fighter is uninjured, declared fit to fight by a medical professional (all fights have a doc or paramedic), then he should be allowed to fight in as many, unpaid fights in any given period of time for the purposed of experience and enjoyment of the sport he's involved in.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record... or jumping iPod... but there is not a large enough space between professional shows and amateur shows. You cannot treat an amateur fighter making his debut in front of his mates and family like this. It's unfair. If you make an amateur sign a contract, then in my opinion, you are shafting him. What does he get in return for this contract? The right to fight? The right to sell your tickets for you? An amateur fighter should fight if he says he will, but he should also reserve the right to drop out should he be feeling too much pressure, if his job is asking for overtime, if his girlfriend gets sick etc. etc. etc.

I had a fighter in at the weekend at Battlezone. He had an IACC fight the week before, he had a C class on Saturday and he'll have a C class in 12 days. The Battlezone fight came up at late notice, but we took it and I was absolutely delighted we did as it was a tough fight in which he learned more than if he'd spent 3 months in the gym. I hope he'll learn just as much in Portlaoise in 12 days because he's an amateur and I don't care how many he wins or loses as long as he keeps learning. If he comes out of the next bout okay, we might take another the week after that who knows?

Now I'm sure I'm off your Christmas card list, and I know you don't want to discuss this further, but I would remind you that this is a discussion forum after all, and if you want to promote your show and make claims about fighter safety, then you probably have to take the rough with the smooth and take some flak too.

By the way I'll pass on what I do when I have people fighting in the weeks before my fight shows, I cross all my fingers and toes, light candles in the church, pray to Allah and do a rain dance. I won't be taking a guy who is doing me a favour and selling tickets for me to court if he hurts himself.

Menace2Society

mark.leonard wrote: »

I think Cage Contender, Cage Wars and Clan Wars all employ this rule.
A fighter is not medically cleared to fight for up to 30 days after a concussion, so if you are a promoter and don't want to risk losing a fight on your card, you lock them into a 30 day rule.
Makes sense to me.

What Mark said! ^^

What's all the fuss about anyway? Even if the fighter doesn't get KO/TKO'd within the 30 days, Mma is a very hard sport & the chances of injury are quite high, so maybe the fighter doesn't get dropped, but gets caught in an armbar & his arm pops, he won't be able to fight again within the 30 days. It's also about injuries, so then the 2nd show is minus a fight. And that could have been the ticket seller/ headline fighter, whatever. It doesn't matter as that show is now minus one.

It's got nothin to do with shows tryin to get one over on each other, it's playin it safe to protect their show.

Makes sense to me!

Menace2Society

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

If a fighter is uninjured, declared fit to fight by a medical professional (all fights have a doc or paramedic), then he should be allowed to fight in as many, unpaid fights in any given period of time for the purposed of experience and enjoyment of the sport he's involved in.

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I do agree with this tho, if they are declared fit to fight, then let them fight!

Simples!

MAC17

Can someone tell me why Decky Dolton had to pull out of Cage Contender due to the 30day rule so he could fight on clan wars and why Mark Uprichard is due to fight Decky Larkin on Cage Contender and Mike Reid on Clan Wars? Is this not the same situation

DamoUp

Mark isn't fighting Mike Reid on Clan Wars. Don't think the fight was ever agreed between the parties involved

IFS.NI

Fight was agreed although Mike had unforeseen work commitments having to work away from home and also Mark agreed to fight on Cage Contender which broke the 30 day rule so the fight was dropped under those two principles.

Looking forward to mark and Decky at CC end of April, should be a great fight!