How To Get To Crotty's Lake

Sully

Trespassing is illegal. You can be prosecuted for it.

Private property, he doesn't have to give access. The case was different to what we have here. He has every right to block access afaik - just like they do with the Metal Man. Council probably should be a bit more co-operative with him for the public and tourist benefit. Within reason.

dayshah

Sully wrote: »

Trespassing is illegal. You can be prosecuted for it.

Private property, he doesn't have to give access. The case was different to what we have here. He has every right to block access afaik - just like they do with the Metal Man. Council probably should be a bit more co-operative with him for the public and tourist benefit. Within reason.

Yes, but rights of way can exist due to 'tradition'. For example if for 30 years you allow your neighbour cross your back garden as a short-cut then I think due to 'adverse possession' they can have a legal right to a right of way. But of course I'm not a lawyer.

There are already schemes to compensate farmers for access to land. If there is public access it is inevitable that some fences will be damaged and so on, so that's why there are schemes to cover this. But this case is purely a retaliation because he wasn't given planning permission. It was one of those boom time developments totally out of character with the area.

I think people should be allowed go to the Metal Man too, but I think an important difference is that the farmer in Tramore has cows and so on around the metal man. So people going there would be interacting with the cows and so on. Its all a working farm. However Crotty's lake is rough ground.

byhookorbycrook

Rights of way only exisit where gates have been traditionally open for 7 yrs,we were always told. When the people of the "big house" in Stradbally lived in Woodhouse, the entrance gate to the cove was closed twice a year to maintain their private status.

dayshah

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Rights of way only exisit where gates have been traditionally open for 7 yrs,we were always told. When the people of the "big house" in Stradbally lived in Woodhouse, the entrance gate to the cove was closed twice a year to maintain their private status.

Its a good few years since I was up by Crotty's Lake. But as far as I can remember there was no fencing around the lake separating it from the rest of the mountain. Ie, you could walk from Coumshingaun to Crotty's lake without crossing a fence. It wasn't easily accessible, but that's what mountaineering is all about.

So I suppose it must have been open from the mountain side for a long time.

Mountainsandh

I think the man has a point, an eco friendly development in that area would create employment and encourage tourism, two very badly needed commodities.

There is a lot of begrudgery for people who are likely to make a few bobs out of an enterprise, whatever that is. It is a pity. The authorities should be working with people who have such projects, not against them... and the public too.

The only means of pressure the man has are the land and the lake, glad for once somebody has the guts to take a stand.

I'm not Irish, and before anyone suggests I "go home if I don't like it here" (has happened), I have been living here 15 years and I do love Ireland and the Irish... but this "no way" mentality pains me to witness.

Co Waterford has a lot to offer, I have my entire French entourage endoctrinated and in love with the county after their numerous visits, and yet, unless people start supporting ideas for development, it is going to stagnate till everything of interest will be destroyed by vandals or disgruntled locals (look at the fairy tree incident).

The man (and I don't know him !) is right : the discontent would be better vented to the authorities, after all, they're the ones holding back the project.

dayshah

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I think the man has a point, an eco friendly development in that area would create employment and encourage tourism, two very badly needed commodities.

It was a €30 million development. That's not exactly an eco-development. If it were to be done in an urban setting I wouldn't object.

I would hate if Ireland destroyed the scenery we are trying to promote, like has happened in Spain and other countries.

Mountainsandh

Actually, the more money involved, the better looking and more eco-friendly the development is likely to be.
Scenery is not going to be destroyed by 40 log cabins and a few extra buildings. If the planning department were doing their job properly, which they might just have to, now, finally, then the designing can obviously
be discussed and debated until a reasonably good looking development is agreed on.

Is that what the man is planning ?
http://www.a-gites.com/vacances-la-plagne-bellecote-IMG1225738818-121210.jpg

If that's the case, I'm with you.

I grew up close to skiing resorts, and have seen many a built up area in the Alps which looked the part and did not destroy the scenery.
One development in the Crotty's lake area does not necessarily mean you are going to be developping Mahon Falls, and the Nire, and other Comeraghs lakes. To the scale of Ireland, one development in this one spot could in fact be marketed as covering the entire Comeragh range.

Irish architects have shown in other places how inventive and sensitive they can be to the environment, this is the occasion to come up with something the area could be proud of, 30 million is a good bit of money to be working with.

Psychedelic

Mountainsandh wrote: »

The man (and I don't know him !) is right : the discontent would be better vented to the authorities, after all, they're the ones holding back the project.

The Council is holding back his development but they are not blocking access to his land. That is the land owner in an attempt to get the public to be angry at the Council, when it is him and only him who is blocking public access. Basically it's "let me build my development or no one is allowed on my land". Sounds a bit petty to me.

After re-reading the article here it looks he may have some genuine cause for complaint against the Council, but again, I don't think this should have anything to do with the public accessing the land.

dayshah

I think we should have a law like in Sweden that allows public access to rough land.

The public are paying the subsidies to the horse industry and agriculture. I think the public should get something back in return.

Mountainsandh

Psychedelic, yes, I do understand that, it is the man blocking access. He is doing it to make a point though, that can be seen as petty, or from where I stand, he is just using what means of pressure he has on the council.
I know several people who got refused planning permission on very unfair terms, and who felt absolutely powerless. I'm sure if any one of them had had a way to pressurise the planning department, they would have used it, and rightly so, in my opinion.

I'm into photography, and since I have started to explore good spots for photo opportunities, I have found that a lot of lovely places were indeed private. Whoever owns those places is lucky, and if they were to open them up to the public I would be very grateful, but if they don't wish to do so, it should be their choice.
As far as I know, this man did not steal the land, or "cunningly" buy it off an unsuspicious farmer, it was in his family. So he was just being nice by letting people enjoy the lake. It seems to me he was thinking the people would side up with him, not against him, and if people were supportive of him, that would indeed be an effective way to get the council to work with him for his project.

Daysha, by your reasoning, a dairy farmer who receives subsidies for his farm would owe something back to the public too ? So what should the farmers give us for free ?
I'll settle for a warm pint of milk a day. :pac:

edit : I really do hope it is reopened to the public some day, and if there is a good access road, and maybe a place to have a cup of tea, so much the better, I can take the grannies out for a lovely day up there. And if there are discreet comfortable cabins on the spot, I'll be sure to recommend them to my French friends and family, eager to explore the Comeraghs and experience the lovely mountains. If you were going on a trip to hike a bit in the Alps, and had a choice between staying in a cabin by a lake up there, or down in the noisy town 10 miles below, what would you choose ?

dayshah

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Daysha, by your reasoning, a dairy farmer who receives subsidies for his farm would owe something back to the public too ? So what should the farmers give us for free ?
I'll settle for a warm pint of milk a day. :pac:

I think I should be allowed walk across the field to see something like the metalman. If people were interfering with the cattle I'd think the farmer should then be allowed keep the area closed until that issue was resolved.

However, there are plenty of farmers who allow access because it doesn't cause any hassle. Farming can be a lonely profession and they are happy if people are friendly to the farmer and talk about the hurling and so on. Others can become fairly contrary in a Bull McCabe sort of way.

Psychedelic

Dayshah, regarding access to the Metalman, I heard last year that access is going to it is going to be allowed in the near future.

dayshah

Psychedelic wrote: »

Dayshah, regarding access to the Metalman, I heard last year that access is going to it is going to be allowed in the near future.

That's good. I think Mr Metalman had something of a case as his field did have cows in it, and is by the side of a cliff.

STIG83

Psychedelic wrote: »

Dayshah, regarding access to the Metalman, I heard last year that access is going to it is going to be allowed in the near future.

Nice one!!

Boskowski

So basically rather than leaving it unspoiled he sniffed a commercial enterprise and when turned down he's acting the bollix.
Unfortunately that is only making him look even more selfish.
If public development was his interest he surely wouldn't punish the public. How a carpark and 40 cabins are going to be eco friendly and eduxational i dont know you can paint it green its still a car park. This sounds like spin around what's basically just a commercial project in an unspoiled area.
Now his commercial interest is hampered and he's thrown his toys out the pram it seems.

STIG83

Boskowski wrote: »

So basically rather than leaving it unspoiled he sniffed a commercial enterprise and when turned down he's acting the bollix.
Unfortunately that is only making him look even more selfish.
If public development was his interest he surely wouldn't punish the public. How a carpark and 40 cabins are going to be eco friendly and eduxational i dont know you can paint it green its still a car park. This sounds like spin around what's basically just a commercial project in an unspoiled area.
Now his commercial interest is hampered and he's thrown his toys out the pram it seems.

Taking it out on other people cos he didnt get his way is all it is.

deiseb0y

I was actually at Crotty's Lake today and it is a beautiful spot.
There were wild goats there and what I believe was a goshawk, though I didn't get a clear look at it.

There was a dead lamb floating in the lake, which I removed, so the people of Carrick on Suir should be safe to drink their free water.

I had no idea that the lake was off limits to the public and, approaching from the Coumshingaun side I saw no signs or fences indicating that there was no public access.

Apologies to Mr Cullinane for my inadvertent trespass. I can assure him that I did not damage any fences or other property.

Reading this thread, my sympathies tend to go toward Mr Cullinane in his attempt to open up the Comeraghs to some controlled access, in what seems to be a sympathetic project.
I tend to agree with the points made by Mountainsandh.

It's easy to just say no to every development, but I think the relevant authorities, whilst bearing in mind their duty as public servants and environmental protectors, should also be trying to act constructively in their approach to such projects. They should be making suggestions and counter proposals if they think the project is not suitable as it stands.

As to Mr Cullinane, I would ask him to look into his heart and find the magnaminity to share his birthright and not punish the innocent in this matter.

dayshah

deiseb0y wrote: »

I had no idea that the lake was off limits to the public and, approaching from the Coumshingaun side I saw no signs or fences indicating that there was no public access.

I wonder what the legal situation is. Ordnance Survey maps don't say who owns what land, so if I am wandering through the mountains, and don't see any signage, is that considered trespassing?

Finnbar01

Apparently the development consisted of 40 log cabins, parking facilities, and a place for visitors to shower and buy refreshments.

If this development had to go ahead I would say it would be half finished and left there.

The council did Mr Cullinane a blessing in disguise.

audidiesel

personally i think they should allow the development now.

but even if they gave planning, in these current economic times i dont think the landowner would receive funding so it would be a moot point.

if there was a picture/sketch of the proposed development and it looked ok then i think mr. Cullinane would get more support.

hopefully it does get resolved at some stage. havent been there in about ten - fifteen years and would like to make the trip again

foxcoverteddy

Hey lads that is some interesting thread, the remarks etc brilliant. I had never heard of Crotty's lake, is there a history to it.
We spend most weekend's in Clonea and holiday's so finding somewhere different would be good.
Amazing what the boards throw up, like is Aldi coming to Dungarvan?
Thanks a million, and has Bill given the green light for going to the lake, what about compulsory purchase??????????????????????? regards Foxy:o

Guramoogah

http://www.rathgormack.com/history/crotty.htm

dayshah

foxcoverteddy wrote:

I had never heard of Crotty's lake, is there a history to it.

TG4 had an interesting documentary about crotty a few years ago. It might be on their site.

hiromoto

I swam nekkid in the lake today, no access problems but i did stub my toe.

foxcoverteddy

Has there been any further news regarding the lake and public admittance, it seems to have gone very quiet.

TheFishingKid

Any further development on access to crotty's lake

RoyalAcademy2

public access still denied by people begging for public funds: may hell freeze over before greedy people win

there is access but it is difficult to get to from west (caumshinaun) and west (booleys)

plumjaws

With and interest in, and experience of, hill-walking in The Comeraghs, I recently made an unannounced visit to the land-owner to discuss access to Crotty's Lake, and I found him to be helpful and genuine. Having read the discussion on this thread, I was a little nervous in broaching the subject, but the man in question immediately put me at ease, and I found him to be warm and caring; despite being under pressure with his own activities, he allowed me time to present my case and discuss it with him. I left the area feeling very positive about access to the lake.

jimbo1979

Did I hear right that some school children found treasure around crottys cave or lake recently.is the farmer allowing people to access this lake again

crottys lake

Still closed to public unfortunately. That was an April fool joke by Munster Express re that story.