IndyCar 2011

Ghost Train

So close

frostie500

Trampas wrote: »

back marker should be shot

IT's up to the leader to get past the backmarker but really there's no excuse for that crash. You have to back off and make sure of winning the race when you have a comfortable lead and just need to finish the race. Crying shame but not the back markers fault

Sparks43

wow really cannot believe that finish :eek:

amacachi

Haven't seen a replay because I had to talk to someone about that. :pac: Looked on first viewing like he cleared the backmarker and just forgot to take the turn.


Feel awful for the lad but the fiver I put on Wheldon softens the blow somewhat. I was actually saying "Go on!" for JR to somehow scrape along the line first til I heard Wheldon had somehow gotten into second.

Ghost Train

Would have loved to see the crashed car win and brought to victory lane. Fair play to the team boss, wasn't too pissed about the crash

amacachi

Ghost Train wrote: »

Would have loved to see the crashed car win and brought to victory lane. Fair play to the team boss, wasn't too pissed about the crash

I was watching out for Dixon and thought when I didn't see him I thought he was going to get across in the lead.


Jesus I feel so bad for Hildebrand.

amacachi

Heh, Indycar.com is down. Hildebrand still ended up in 2nd, 2 seconds back.

Can't believe how bad I feel for Hildebrand. Kimbell must feel like crap as well.

TheChrisD

Results available on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Indianapolis_500#Race_results

Ghost Train wrote: »

Would have loved to see the crashed car win and brought to victory lane.

This.

amacachi

Panther putting in a protest apparently. Better not cost me money. :pac:

I'm fairly sure the appeal won't be accepted, drivers can't be expected to not drive around an accident when a yellow comes out. It seems pretty clear cut to me at least.

TheChrisD

amacachi wrote: »

Panther putting in a protest apparently. Better not cost me money. :pac:

I'm fairly sure the appeal won't be accepted, drivers can't be expected to not drive around an accident when a yellow comes out. It seems pretty clear cut to me at least.

Actually, it sounds legit. I had Timing and Scoring up for the entire event and the track did clearly go YELLOW before the checkered. I think that's what Panther are basing their action on, since obviously under yellow, there's no passing.

However, a major flaw in their argument is the fact that J.R. himself it what caused the yellow. I'm not sure what IndyCar rules are with regards to what happens to the car that directly causes the yellow. I know NASCAR rules are that if you cause the yellow, you are sent to tail end of the field, and if you were in the lucky dog spot, you don't get it.

EDIT:

Well, a quick Twitter search has debunked that theory that the appeal will work:

amacachi

You can't see the flags properly in that, and from memory I'm almost sure I saw the yellows and chequers being flown together before they were at that point in the track.
EDIT: Almost looks like there may be a little yellow visible but if the lights are green that has to be the one that makes the difference.
This would set a bad precedent, while obviously there's no passing under yellows how does driving past a crashed car count as passing?

TheChrisD

amacachi wrote: »

You can't see the flag in that

Don't need to, green light is lit above J.R.'s car. This is turning into 2002 all over again

amacachi

TheChrisD wrote: »

Don't need to, green light is lit above J.R.'s car. This is turning into 2002 all over again

Yeah but I think the flag at the line may have already been out. That said it could've been the flagman winging it since surely the lights are connected straight to race control.

TheChrisD

Well, maybe. I know that this exact scenario was the same in 2002, with regards to Tracy pass on Hélio when the caution came out (for a crash not involving either of those two), giving Hélio the win.

Per the rulebook (Article 7.1 B, Page 72 in it:

B.Decisions by the Senior Official are effective at the time
he declares his decision, regardless of the time the
declaration is received by the Competitors. INDYCAR
uses multiple systems to notify Competitors of such
decisions. All Competitors shall react to the first
notification they receive. The systems include the
following:

1. Track Lights – Green and/or yellow lights
positioned around the Track above the outside
retaining wall adjacent to the debris fence.

2. “Race Control Frequency” – The radio
frequency used by INDYCAR to provide direct
communication to Entrants during Events. The
spotter (if applicable) and a representative of the
Entrant in the Entrant’s pit must both monitor it.
Entrants failing to monitor it shall be charged with
knowledge of communication on such frequency and
are subject to penalty. Competitors failing to follow
directions may be penalized.

3. Track Condition Radio (“TCR”) - All Cars
must use the INDYCAR-supplied TCR and wiring
harness without modification.

a. Oval Events - The TCR signals a yellow
condition..

So yea, they actually may have a case depending on when Barnhart called for it.

amacachi

I think the fact that he passed a crashed car has to make all the difference though.

TheChrisD

Aww jaysus, so many technicalities this rulebook has:

3.During the yellow condition, no Car may pass
another Car unless:
a.The other Car is stopped on the Track or the
Driver of the other Car has waved all of the
passing Cars by in a safe location and promptly
confirms such action by radio communication to
Officials;
b.The other Car is not maintaining the pace lap
speed; or
c.Either Car is in the pit lane boundaries.

I can understand them maybe saying he wasn't maintaining pace speed (like what fúcked over Ambrose at Sonoma last year in the NASCAR), but he hasn't yet stopped nor has he waved the other cars by.

Also, going back to the fact that the field is frozen the second Barnhart calls for it? Check this pic, while the main track was green, the pit-lane yellow light was ON: http://twitpic.com/54blnj/full

amacachi

I doubt the yellow wasn't called for before the pass tbh but at the same time there's a few ways for Indycar to let Wheldon keep the win. They can either say that JR wasn't maintaining the pace at the time of the pass. That or they can say that even if he was at the right pace at the time of the pass he had slowed too quickly and given that there was a 2 second gap by the line so Wheldon had little choice but to pass.


TBH I think it's all going to come down to what the Indycar want to do, give the win to who crossed the line first and who didn't seem to do anything wrong or give it to the rookie and get some (bad) publicity.

Sparks43

Still cant believe the last corner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZc_u2lfOeo

Grim.

Sparks43 wrote: »

Still cant believe the last corner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZc_u2lfOeo

you can see the flags cleary in this vid and i didnt see the yellows untill wheldon was over the line

amacachi

Grim. wrote: »

you can see the flags cleary in this vid and i didnt see the yellows untill wheldon was over the line

True but the pit lane light had already gone yellow even if the light on track hadn't. As per the rules that means that the track is under caution even if the drivers don't know about it. I've no doubt the track was technically under yellow however I'd still say Wheldon was within his rights to pass.

amacachi

Just read that the field is frozen when a yellow comes out, hope Wheldon won't be sickened.

At the same time though I was under the impression that even under yellow you still had to cross the line, a la last year. Whichever decision is given it's going to be a mess.

gs39t

What an absolutely amazing/bizarre race. :eek: I was thinking as JR went into the last turn that his crew should be telling him to stay behind the lapped car, he had enough of a gap to coast home. Fair play to Wheldon, part time team with Herta, nice to see that happen

NASCAR Spoiler

In a twilight-zone-esque mirror image Dale Jr in the National Guard car leads the coke 600 into turn 4 and runs out of fuel

amacachi

Spoiler alert.

gs39t

amacachi wrote: »

Spoiler alert.

Sorry i guess i was the only one watching it live

TheChrisD

gs39t wrote: »

I was thinking as JR went into the last turn that his crew should be telling him to stay behind the lapped car, he had enough of a gap to coast home.

I should pay attention to the thread title more, I thought you were talking about the NASCAR and was wondering why the heck you mentioned a lapped car XD

gs39t

TheChrisD wrote: »

I should pay attention to the thread title more, I thought you were talking about the NASCAR and was wondering why the heck you mentioned a lapped car XD

In NASCAR Jr usually is the lapped car

acquiescefc

bit late on this but ...WOW...what a finish, thought Hildebrand had it.

just back from states and was hoping to avoid hearing the result(and did) and watched the whole race this morning.

fair play to Wheldon, another win for the Brits cant believe he doesnt have a seat this year. the pure emotion of it, and his dedication to his mom.

anyone know why Mike Conway wasnt in the field?

amacachi

Conway didn't manage to qualify.

amacachi

Just bumping this to see if anyone knows what time the races begin tonight. Sky have a 3 hour programme starting at 1.30 which seems a bit optimistic to me.

Sparks43

amacachi wrote: »

Just bumping this to see if anyone knows what time the races begin tonight. Sky have a 3 hour programme starting at 1.30 which seems a bit optimistic to me.

8pm ET which is 2 am here

TheChrisD

The Versus coverage starts at 8pm EST, so 1am here. Also 3 hours makes sense given how the races are supposed to have a one-hour gap between them.

amacachi

TheChrisD wrote: »

The Versus coverage starts at 8pm EST, so 1am here. Also 3 hours makes sense given how the races are supposed to have a one-hour gap between them.

Well they're giving themselves just 2.5 hours for the races then, when I said optimistic I meant there wouldn't be enough time, not too much. :pac:

Sparks43

Remember we are on BST At the moment

ET is 6 hours behind

amacachi

Sparks43 wrote: »

Remember we are on BST At the moment

ET is 6 hours behind

They're in DST at the moment too though I thought?

TheChrisD

Sparks43 wrote: »

Remember we are on BST At the moment

ET is 6 hours behind

No, the US has a daylight savings time that is even longer than us, this year their one is March 13 - November 6. We will only ever be 4 or 5 hours ahead, never 6.

Either way, the coverage has just started now. Am watching on http://www.justin.tv/besweeet5.

amacachi

Goddamn it I can't wait to have useful internet back. :pac:

TheChrisD

amacachi wrote: »

Just bumping this to see if anyone knows what time the races begin tonight. Sky have a 3 hour programme starting at 1.30 which seems a bit optimistic to me.

I think they might get it all.

The first race starts at 7.45pm CDT - 1.45am here, and the second is scheduled to start at 9.45pm CDT - 3.45am here. 114 laps at around 24 seconds a lap is barely 45 minutes, but will most likely take about an hour total if you include cautions. But, who knows.

amacachi

TheChrisD wrote: »

I think they might get it all.

The first race starts at 7.45pm CDT - 1.45am here, and the second is scheduled to start at 9.45pm CDT - 3.45am here. 114 laps at around 24 seconds a lap is barely 45 minutes, but will most likely take about an hour total if you include cautions. But, who knows.

Aye, gonna be interesting whatever happens. I'm sure the "sensible" tactic is to take it easy in the first race but I don't imagine being in any way cautious around Texas is going to work out well for anyone. ^_^

amacachi

I don't know how Hildebrand could get into an Indycar again after Indy. :pac:

amacachi

I don't know if I want this to be as exciting as last year, already lost about 10% of the little hair I have watching Le Mans. :pac:

amacachi

Power really needs to wise up around Sato methinks. Scary stuff already.

TheChrisD

Shít man, they make it look like there's no room at this track compared to the Trucks last night! Especially down the back-stretch where they all jump to the bottom.

amacachi

Everytime this cut to the camera showing them just on the backstraight I half-gasp, it's consistently scary.

Sparks43

Crazy starts alright wheel to wheel all over the track


Indy on my pc and le mans on the tv:D

amacachi

Think it was Tags there getting really, really close to a backmarker.

amacachi

Amazing seeing Power's wing flex against Sato's rear wheel there. Don't think it was against the endplate thankfully, a puncture would not be a good thing around here.

amacachi

Fairly sure the second stops will stop this being the fastest ever race, pity. :pac:

Sparks43

amacachi wrote: »

Fairly sure the second stops will stop this being the fastest ever race, pity. :pac:

its only going to be a splash for the lead cars


Fast paced race for sure

Sparks43

and we have a yellow :mad:

amacachi

My nerves are going to explode during this. :pac: