Next gen xbox in development

folan

Source

Very early if theyre only hiring now. So we can maybe expect a new console out in 2-3 years though, which makes sense if you consider I've had mine for 5 years now.

with the UI improvments in xbox over the years, this could see a nice OS, so the hardware pairing will be important. though im happy with my graphics now, but its really frustrating that some xbox games lag on my xbox! if my mega drive or snes never did that, neither should my xbox

Blazer

I reckon this is for the 4th gen Xbox or the next next-gen as it was put.
No way are MS not locked down now on the hardware specs for the next Xbox.
We're 5 years into the current life-cycle of the Xbox and I definitely can't see it taking another 2-3 years for another one to appear.
As MS have now learned whoever gets their next-gen console out there wins and they're not going to allow Sony to steal one over them.

cython

Sc@recrow wrote: »

I reckon this is for the 4th gen Xbox or the next next-gen as it was put.
No way are MS not locked down now on the hardware specs for the next Xbox.
We're 5 years into the current life-cycle of the Xbox and I definitely can't see it taking another 2-3 years for another one to appear.
As MS have now learned whoever gets their next-gen console out there wins and they're not going to allow Sony to steal one over them.

I wouldn't necessarily buy into that theory. 3 years ago so-called industry insiders were forecasting that we would have a new xbox and/or playstation for Christmas 2011, but in the meantime we have seen the release of Move and Kinect, which both companies are hoping will extend the lifespan of their current generation of products. Perhaps they could even be classed as a half generation in between full revisions?

Either way, I suspect that at this stage if there were to be a new console released this year, or even in the first half of next year, then we'd have heard about it through Devs readying titles for it. Even with enough NDAs to wipe out the rainforests once and for all, there ought to be some chatter. Hell, even official announcement of the PS3 led the release by over a year! Developers of cross-platform titles are still only properly getting fully to grips with the intricacies of developing for the PS3, and exploiting its hardware, in the last 2 years. Another 2 years or a bit more of life is not unreasonable to expect from the current crop.

Couple this with the fact that recruiting now for a 4th gen xbox would be forecasting an incredibly short lifespan for the 3rd gen one (given the lengths of development cycles so far being < 5 years), and it seems less likely again. Barring a new one releasing this year, MS would need to be considering about a 3-4 year lifespan for a so-called "xbox 720", which is incredibly short by the standards of any full-blown console.

Blazer

cython wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily buy into that theory. 3 years ago so-called industry insiders were forecasting that we would have a new xbox and/or playstation for Christmas 2011, but in the meantime we have seen the release of Move and Kinect, which both companies are hoping will extend the lifespan of their current generation of products. Perhaps they could even be classed as a half generation in between full revisions?

Either way, I suspect that at this stage if there were to be a new console released this year, or even in the first half of next year, then we'd have heard about it through Devs readying titles for it. Even with enough NDAs to wipe out the rainforests once and for all, there ought to be some chatter. Hell, even official announcement of the PS3 led the release by over a year! Developers of cross-platform titles are still only properly getting fully to grips with the intricacies of developing for the PS3, and exploiting its hardware, in the last 2 years. Another 2 years or a bit more of life is not unreasonable to expect from the current crop.

Couple this with the fact that recruiting now for a 4th gen xbox would be forecasting an incredibly short lifespan for the 3rd gen one (given the lengths of development cycles so far being < 5 years), and it seems less likely again. Barring a new one releasing this year, MS would need to be considering about a 3-4 year lifespan for a so-called "xbox 720", which is incredibly short by the standards of any full-blown console.

That's the way business's work though..as soon as one product gets shipped the design team are immediately working on it's replacement.
It's the same whether in Dell/MS/Apple etc...the design team work on the part until it gets shipped as which point the support teams take over that product and the design team start on a new one.
The rumours always stated Summer 2011/12 for an xbox launch and I'll reckon we'll start to see some releases in the coming months etc.
Just because they'd be starting on the next next gen doesn't mean it's going to launch in the next 2-3 years.
In fact if you look at the job description they're looking for people to take ownership of the product from initial to deployment phase and you can be 100% sure that MS are way past the initial phase on the next xbox.

folan

its one of the two, though if the new xbox (lets call it the) 720 is to come out this year, I would have expected to hear more about it by now. However, I wouldnt rule out a 720 announcement at E3, though agreeing with cython it would be strange if ndas had been kept this quiet. It is microsoft.

Not The Real Scarecrow

I know a chap that has been working on developing a new xbox for the last 3 years,according to him its pretty much tech developed but ms decided to hod off on its release cause game developers are pretty much happy with the power of the 360 at the moment.Thats the main reason that the kinnect was released as a seperate unit a while back, the original plan was to have it integrated in the new system. From my understanding it'll be a few years till a new one hits the shelves but there will be a fair few more tweeks to the current system and xbox live.Unfortunately only the Americans are gonna mainly benifit from some of the new stuff coming on xbl.

NTMK

it only going into development now??
its a long way off from even getting a mention at e3. id give it at least e3 2012 for an announcement and relase around christmas 2013

microsoft wont rush this time after the 360 launch

hightower1

I dont know who ya'll have been listening to seeing as they were "supposedly" predicting new consoles by xmas 2011 :eek::eek:

Anyone who knows anything will look at the R and D costs VS timescale of this generation and know that its lunacy toexpec anything new before 2015.

There is no hope in hell of MS announcing the dev of the next console at E3, I can tell you no thier keynote will push wp7 phone / kinect / xbox integration , a price cut for kinect bundle and even possibly a new IP or a next Halo installment. No new hardware.

Thoughts focus on what the next console could include and there are a world of options even right now but making a briliant console isnt hard... making a VIABLE and AFFORDABLE console is very difficult.

Huge solid state drives, massive focus on connectivity and the biggest overhaul wont even be in the hardware , It'll be XBL itself.

amacachi

Would be damn stupid to launch a new console soon. I'd assume that MS and Sony (aren't completely brainless) are waiting for the other one to blink. The next consoles should be fairly off-the-shelf type configurations given how much PC graphics have improved since (and before) the last consoles came out.

The other problem with the next generation is going to be the lack of obvious/quantifiable advancement in graphics.
But hey, we'll see.

hightower1

amacachi wrote: »

Would be damn stupid to launch a new console soon. I'd assume that MS and Sony (aren't completely brainless) are waiting for the other one to blink.

I dont think Sony have any plans in the foreseeable future to start R and D on the next console offering tbh. The ps3 is only just starting to make money and become viable, couple that with current issues like the LG fiasco and jailbreaking then they have to leave the ps3 at least another 5 years in active circulation to call it a true fiscal sucsess. MS on the other hand have a fiscal sucsess already and can now push small steps forward until the end of the 360s cycle like software developments. There wont be any more hrdware released from MS from now until the next gen.

They can afford to start r and d now based on the market history and position of the 360 but sony simply cant at the moment and as I said they wont be at that position for 5 years approx. The question is can Sony afford to leave the ps3 active til then???? My answer would be no, it will face bleed of the customer base to its rival if MS have a 2 year headstart over the next playstation. Sony purchasers are also becoming more savy and are realising that Sonys initial price point for new hardware will be very very high and will wait for the first price cuts before investing so that pushes any "real" consumer buy in back by about 6months to a year of the console release.

In short Sony will have to cut itslosses with the ps3. It will leave them in a bad starting position really as r and d costs arent going down in fact they are sky rocketing. To start a new console r and d cycle to full production costs in the region of 1 billion USD and thats not a bill you want to be footed with while your "cutting losses" from an investment which should have been paying twords the new console.

The future of the xbox seems bright and stable but the future of the ps4 seems a lot more merky and worringly seems to hinge on how Sony as an entity is coping when decision time comes. The extra cash will have to come from the other divisions and will rest on the boards confidence in the playststion brand to not make the same mistakes again. My eductated opion leaves sony ps4 developmnt @ 50/50 chances of even being started at best. I honestly wouldnt be suprised to hear sony say they will not enter the next gen market in the next cycle or very well maybe partner with someone else on their new console.

Personally I would love to see a sony /MS venture, MS supplying the XBL , software and integration while Sony develope the hardware but thats all pie in the sky right now.

amacachi

hightower1 wrote: »

I dont think Sony have any plans in the foreseeable future to start R and D on the next console offering tbh. The ps3 is only just starting to make money and become viable, couple that with current issues like the LG fiasco and jailbreaking then they have to leave the ps3 at least another 5 years in active circulation to call it a true fiscal sucsess. MS on the other hand have a fiscal sucsess already and can now push small steps forward until the end of the 360s cycle like software developments. There wont be any more hrdware released from MS from now until the next gen.

They can afford to start r and d now based on the market history and position of the 360 but sony simply cant at the moment and as I said they wont be at that position for 5 years approx. The question is can Sony afford to leave the ps2 active til then???? My answer would be no, it will face bleed of the customer base to its rival if MS have a 2 year headstart over the next playstation.

I don't see why MS would bring out another console while still making profit on the 360 though. Like I said, lack of obvious advancement is gonna be a sticking point if either of them go for a new console soon. Look at the last 4 generations;
Increased colours, resolution, games sizes and graphic complexity.
3D environments start in earnest.
3D environments (in SD) advance massively, rendered much better and little pop-in etc.
HD graphics.

Where to next? The other thing is that unless 2K TVs become really mainstream there's little point in a console that has better than a current build-your-own gaming PC for around 600 quid. Rather than spend 2 years on R+D the current 600 quid gaming PCs could be built for around 300 at most in a couple of years time by Sony and MS and would be a piece of piss to code for etc. I don't imagine any of the next-gen consoles will try to re-invent the wheel like Sony tried and failed with the PS3.

Helix

folan wrote: »

Very early if theyre only hiring now

theyre only hiring externally and publically now

you can bet your bollix theyve been working on this internally since pre 360 release

Helix

hightower1 wrote: »

I dont think Sony have any plans in the foreseeable future to start R and D on the next console offering tbh

thats not how the gaming industry works, i can guarantee you that r&d has started for the ps5

20goto10

R&D? It's not like they have to invent anything for it. Whatever the hardware is it's already out there in PC boxes.

I'd say all they're waiting for is a new engine to pop up in the pc gaming world which they can base their development on. Slapping together a UI is trivial and will simply be kinect 2.0.

Helix

20goto10 wrote: »

R&D? It's not like they have to invent anything for it. Whatever the hardware is it's already out there in PC boxes.

I'd say all they're waiting for is a new engine to pop up in the pc gaming world which they can base their development on. Slapping together a UI is trivial and will simply be kinect 2.0.

itll be the same kinect hardware

hightower1

amacachi wrote: »

I don't see why MS would bring out another console while still making profit on the 360 though. .

There will always be somewhat profit margin on a console in amrketing terms, what prompts a new consle is when the forecasted margin dips to unacceptable levels for the old gen as opposed to the potential margin to be made on a new gen. This coupled with the need to the brad to be kept relevant in modern terms.

hightower1

Helix wrote: »

thats not how the gaming industry works, i can guarantee you that r&d has started for the ps5

I am sorry helix but thats completely wrong. Perhaps you mean in terms of component devices being developed for general use / applications? i.e a new processer being developed by Samsung for generral use BUT may some day be used in a consle then yes but in terms of components being developed or repurposed specifcially for a next gen console then its simply not the case.

When you expand the amount of individual components , configurations, repurposing , software and backup utilities that now encompass what a ture console means then no current next gen console is in development yet.

Yes some thrd party manufacturer man be making a component which will be in use in the next gen but that alone is able to be labeled as "developing for the new gen"

Vyse

hightower1 wrote: »

I am sorry helix but thats completely wrong.

I agree with Helix on this. You can bet that the specs for the XBox 720 and PS4 have been pretty much finalised at this stage. This generation will be the longest to date (the 360 has been out for over 5 years, it was launched just over 3 and a half years into the original XBoxs lifecycle).

Planning for the 360 commenced just after the original Xbox launched.

Helix

hightower1 wrote: »

I am sorry helix but thats completely wrong. Perhaps you mean in terms of component devices being developed for general use / applications? i.e a new processer being developed by Samsung for generral use BUT may some day be used in a consle then yes but in terms of components being developed or repurposed specifcially for a next gen console then its simply not the case.

When you expand the amount of individual components , configurations, repurposing , software and backup utilities that now encompass what a ture console means then no current next gen console is in development yet.

Yes some thrd party manufacturer man be making a component which will be in use in the next gen but that alone is able to be labeled as "developing for the new gen"

its not completely wrong. im not talking about them building prototypes, or knowing whats going into the thing, but more a case of cotinual theoretical research always being 2 generations ahead of the generation on market at any given time

re the ps4 or xbox 720 (stupid name) they'll be beyond the theoretical stage, but nowhere close to having anything along the lines of specs or knowing whats going in the box. this development with adverts being placed by microsoft however, suggests that things have been narrowed down sufficiently to begin on the road to prototyping

hightower1

amacachi wrote: »

Where to next? The other thing is that unless 2K TVs become really mainstream there's little point in a console that has better than a current build-your-own gaming PC for around 600 quid. Rather than spend 2 years on R+D the current 600 quid gaming PCs could be built for around 300 at most in a couple of years time by Sony and MS and would be a piece of piss to code for etc. I don't imagine any of the next-gen consoles will try to re-invent the wheel like Sony tried and failed with the PS3.

I would imagine the focus of the next gen would be integration and connectivity. MS has seen how great back end support and online services can make or break a console so absolute focus will be on improving and building upon the XBL groundwork. Furthering that ethos and coupling it with integration we may start seeing common devices or services like apple tv really come to the fore. Where now IP tv devices sit beside the console it only makes sense for a device like this to couple with providers to bring IP tv to consoles. Theframework is already there, netflix could curently do this only for licensing and buisiness plan issues but the back end support / hardware is ready now so there is no reason to not have it in the next gen.

A lot depends on how MS as a company want to move forward, do they want to harmonise their differet divisions i.e have your windows OS connect seemlessly to your console, your phone also? Smart money says yes, they are attempting this now but the big stumling block is the main hub.. the console. It was created before Win7 and Win7 phone so it cant reach its fullest as is but if you create a new OS with a view to include console / phone connectivity from the ground up then the sky is the limit. We see inclings of this already with the recent tech demo of kinect using WP7 and xbox live integration on the WP7 os so I wouldnt bet aginst cross platform connectivty being core.

hightower1

Helix wrote: »

cotinual theoretical researchQUOTE]

Continual theoretical reaserch is a far stretch from "the ps5 being in development" as you put it.

Theoretical quantum physics in relation to string theory is currently a hot subject but a scientist studying that particular field of physics cant claim to say he is "building a ship to travel beween dimentions" if he is only doing theoretical research.

cython

Vyse wrote: »

I agree with Helix on this. You can bet that the specs for the XBox 720 and PS4 have been pretty much finalised at this stage. This generation will be the longest to date (the 360 has been out for over 5 years, it was launched just over 3 and a half years into the original XBoxs lifecycle).

To be fair, MS were late to the game with the original Xbox, with the PS2 and the Dreamcast having released significantly before it, so if they were to remain current, in terms of generations, the console was always going to have a relatively short lifespan, rather than a representative one.

Vyse wrote: »

Planning for the 360 commenced just after the original Xbox launched.

Yes, probably in broad strokes, as in "hey, we should probably look to the future of console generations, they have a finite lifespan, after all," but there are plenty of sources out there stating that technical development (which the above job posting would relate to, let's remember) did not start until 2003, about 2-2.5 years before release. Even if we add a year to that for technical development of a new console, if this posting is for a 4th gen xbox, then it will be released by about 2015, meaning the 3rd gen one you are so sure is finalised would have a pathetically short lifespan.

Additionally, bear in mind that the 360 has seen revisions in terms of both shrinking the manufacturing process, and ultimately a revised design design in the form of the 360 S and Kinect that its predecessor did not. This, coupled with/caused by the RROD fiasco, will have tied up at least some of the original hardware team well beyond its launch. Add to this the release of Kinect, which is a revision (and revenue generating opportunity) more extensive than has happened for most consoles in the past, and it's not so much of a stretch to imagine the lifespan of the 360 being prolonged such that the hardware for the next generation is undergoing development now.

hightower1

Its exciting to think the next gen rumbles have begun already. Yes its going to be four years away but 4 years or hearing intermittently about a game (splinter cell conviction) wrecked my head seeing as at the end of the day its just a game but when its a console I dont mind hearing about it in dribs and drabs for that long.


Now queue the inevitable concept designs to come out that look completely mind blowing...... that end up looking nothnig like the drap plastic box we will be left with. :mad:

For once I would like a truly beautiful console. I still find myself using the power button on the S for that nice touch / sound effect.

TouchingVirus

From a console modding perspective I hope the guy on the 3rd job position (Hardware Verification) sucks :P

docdolittle

TouchingVirus wrote: »

From a console modding perspective I hope the guy on the 3rd job position (Hardware Verification) sucks :P

From a game developers perspective, I really hope MS hire some top modders to try and get rid of any early exploits that they missed in development

-=al=-

Can't wait till facebook is advertised to sell the next xbox :pac:

bah, hope it doesnt include a browser, i can do without it on the machine


+ there will be another 34 ipods, 19 iphones and 12 ipads released before it


hope they put actual proper buttons back on it also

Myrddin

20goto10 wrote: »

R&D? It's not like they have to invent anything for it. Whatever the hardware is it's already out there in PC boxes.

And what of the OS that'll have to be researched & developed? What of the hardware integration? What of the architecture/cooling? Peripheral integration? Power requirements/useage? Are you telling me all of that for the Xbox720360 Turbo is sitting in my pc now? Sweet, I'm off to the patent office :cool:

Myrddin

docdolittle wrote: »

From a game developers perspective, I really hope MS hire some top modders to try and get rid of any early exploits that they missed in development

Isn't Hotz working with MS on some phone related stuff? Maybe he'll get a promotion to try his hands at next-gen sucurity I don't perticularly care anymore about current gen modding, there's too much stigma attatched to it these days. "They're destroying the industry, They're cheating at MW2, Oh the poor dev houses charging €40 for 10MB DS games god help them" etc etc. (I'm not advocating DS piracy, I very much dislike the rampant use of flashcards & the ease at which they're gotten, but dev houses need to help themselves in a lot of cases...prices being one major avenue)

It's also too easy these days, you download the firmware that someone's already made for you & simply install it? Where's the fun in that? It's a hobby of mine, I like exploring the potential of what the machine can offer, but there has to be a challenge to it too, to be of any satisfaction. There's a satisfaction from seeing something you've worked on with your own hands, offering something different to a standard console. But when it's plug & play? I'd rather not bother.

I agree with Kinetic here though, from past insider info etc, it's likely MS are very far along the r&d phase of the next console. It's also likely the successor to that, is on flip charts as we speak.

amacachi

EnterNow wrote: »

And what of the OS that'll have to be researched & developed? What of the hardware integration? What of the architecture/cooling? Peripheral integration? Power requirements/useage? Are you telling me all of that for the Xbox720360 Turbo is sitting in my pc now? Sweet, I'm off to the patent office :cool:

The PS3 still hasn't graphically gotten to where PCs were when the PS3 was released despite costing Sony around a thousand dollars apiece to put together. In the PS3's case they could have easily just used off-the-shelf components and gotten results that were cheaper and better. The 360 squeezes a lot out for what it is but it reached its graphical peak a few years ago.

You can't patent something that already exists.

Hardware integration: plug n play. Architecture is no issue if standard components etc. are used. Cooling would have to be sorted but I think a year or two would be plenty of time To do it. :pac: As for the power requirements I don't see what you mean at all, early consoles this generation had horrible power consumption so I don't think that's an issue that's focussed on much.

stephendevlin

Why doesnt PS3 and Xbox just start making apps for thier consoles. Make much more sense. I know PS3 doesnt really have any (not sure about xbox) but they could make a mint that way. SKYPE / IPTV (I know there are some forms of this) / BETTER WEB BROWSERS / SLINGPLAYER .. to name a few that would be successfull. I mean Apple make a lot of money this way.. why not on these consoles?

Not like they can add much more at this stage I mean the HD games are fantastic and they are on the verge of making 3D gaming come alive but thats just games they are making a few quid on ..:D

Myrddin

amacachi wrote: »

The PS3 still hasn't graphically gotten to where PCs were when the PS3 was released despite costing Sony around a thousand dollars apiece to put together. In the PS3's case they could have easily just used off-the-shelf components and gotten results that were cheaper and better. The 360 squeezes a lot out for what it is but it reached its graphical peak a few years ago.

You can't patent something that already exists.

Hardware integration: plug n play. Architecture is no issue if standard components etc. are used. Cooling would have to be sorted but I think a year or two would be plenty of time To do it. :pac: As for the power requirements I don't see what you mean at all, early consoles this generation had horrible power consumption so I don't think that's an issue that's focussed on much.

So what are you saying? Rearrange an ATX motherboard & call it an Xbox 720? I'm all for off-the shelf components, but a platform needs to be designed to make them all work together, not to mention a software interface.