Pubic sector reform. Finally.

mathie

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0308/1224291591888.html

With the finance portfolio being split into two component parts, it is expected that Fine Gael’s Michael Noonan will become minister for finance and Labour’s Joan Burton will become the minister with responsibility for expenditure and pubic sector reform.

STEPHEN COLLINS and HARRY McGEE

Legends.

Biggins

Whats the betting they'll make a balls of it!

(couldn't resist)

scico rocks

mathie wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0308/1224291591888.html

With the finance portfolio being split into two component parts, it is expected that Fine Gael’s Michael Noonan will become minister for finance and Labour’s Joan Burton will become the minister with responsibility for expenditure and pubic sector reform.

STEPHEN COLLINS and HARRY McGEE

Legends.

Hopefully changes - and i mean big changes - will happen to get rid of the waste that is the public sector. Seriously overstaffed, lack of hard work, every kind of ridiculous perk ie. term time, taking the whole summer off etc will finally be a thing of the past..........

token56

Not a bad idea if Joan Burton wasn't going to be in charge of it

chin_grin

mathie wrote: »

pubic sector reform.

HARRY McGEE

<chuckle>

u140acro3xs7dm

token56 wrote: »

Not a bad idea if Joan Burton wasn't going to be in charge of it

Just the thought of her horrible whiny voice babbling on about reform is making me feel nauseous.

BizzyC

labour in charge of public sector.....unions will be running the country now...

chin_grin

scico rocks wrote: »

Hopefully changes - and i mean big changes - will happen to get rid of the waste that is the public sector. Seriously overstaffed, lack of hard work, every kind of ridiculous perk ie. term time, taking the whole summer off etc will finally be a thing of the past..........

Right I'm going to point this out before it descends in to just out and out public sector bashing. (And possibly trolling). And no, I'm not 'in' it. But it's just something I've come to notice............

It's like any other job. You're going to get the wasters that will sit on their holes and think they can still get away with doing the absolute minimum, but then you get the ones that are breaking their backs and who realise that they are lucky to have a job, etc etc. Enrolling in loads of courses to get ahead and just being the backbone of the place.

If it comes to it I do hope the wasters get a good kick up the ar$e.

mathie

chin_grin wrote: »

Right I'm going to point this out before it descends in to just out and out public sector bashing. (And possibly trolling). And no, I'm not 'in' it. But it's just something I've come to notice............

It's like any other job. You're going to get the wasters that will sit on their holes and think they can still get away with doing the absolute minimum, but then you get the ones that are breaking their backs and who realise that they are lucky to have a job, etc etc. Enrolling in loads of courses to get ahead and just being the backbone of the place.

If it comes to it I do hope the wasters get a good kick up the ar$e.

BizzyC wrote: »

labour in charge of public sector.....unions will be running the country now...

Trenton Slow Slip wrote: »

Just the thought of her horrible whiny voice babbling on about reform is making me feel nauseous.

token56 wrote: »

Not a bad idea if Joan Burton wasn't going to be in charge of it

scico rocks wrote: »

Hopefully changes - and i mean big changes - will happen to get rid of the waste that is the public sector. Seriously overstaffed, lack of hard work, every kind of ridiculous perk ie. term time, taking the whole summer off etc will finally be a thing of the past..........

FFS.

Repeat after me.

Pubic.
Pubic.
Pubic.

sbsquarepants

Trenton Slow Slip wrote: »

Just the thought of her horrible whiny voice babbling on about reform is making me feel nauseous.

Moan Burton! Jesus, imagine having to live with her:eek:

Gunsfortoys

Shaved or Brazilian?

Biggins

mathie wrote: »

FFS.

Repeat after me.

Pubic.
Pubic.
Pubic.

They cocked-up. Didn't see what was sticking out!

u140acro3xs7dm

chin_grin wrote: »

Right I'm going to point this out before it descends in to just out and out public sector bashing. (And possibly trolling). And no, I'm not 'in' it. But it's just something I've come to notice............

It's like any other job. You're going to get the wasters that will sit on their holes and think they can still get away with doing the absolute minimum, but then you get the ones that are breaking their backs and who realise that they are lucky to have a job, etc etc. Enrolling in loads of courses to get ahead and just being the backbone of the place.

If it comes to it I do hope the wasters get a good kick up the ar$e.

Cant see that happening though as the unions have too much power in the Public Sector and wont allow the useless ones to be booted out. It will be a long long drawn out thing over years with plenty of strikes and work to rule on so on.

If they worked in the Private sector and their employers are not doing too well they get let go. Their employer is the government and its doing really badly so they have to go.

orourkeda

BizzyC wrote: »

labour in charge of public sector.....unions will be running the country now...

How do you figure that one out? She's won't be the only minister in charge of a part of the public sector.

chin_grin

mathie wrote: »

FFS.

Repeat after me.

Pubic.
Pubic.
Pubic.

OHHHHHHHHHHH!

<facepalms>

jester77

mathie wrote: »

Joan Burton will become the minister with responsibility for expenditure and pubic sector reform.

Jayus, that's some mental image you've left us with.

Wonder how'll she reform it, she'll probably just trim a little from the top and leave the rest of it out of control just like it is now. Can't imagine she would have the guts to go gung ho and rip it to the core!!

Dave!

Labour in charge of public sector reform, awesome.

orourkeda

Trenton Slow Slip wrote: »

Cant see that happening though as the unions have too much power in the Public Sector and wont allow the useless ones to be booted out. It will be a long long drawn out thing over years with plenty of strikes and work to rule on so on.

If they worked in the Private sector and their employers are not doing too well they get let go. Their employer is the government and its doing really badly so they have to go.

I cant see how having a strong union is a problem. As long as they are doing their job then unions are here to stay whether people like it or not.

Without them thw whole of Ireland will become Ryanairland.

orourkeda

Dave! wrote: »

Labour in charge of public sector reform, awesome.

Is that because FF did such a stunning job f*cking it up in the first place?

danbohan

BizzyC wrote: »

labour in charge of public sector.....unions will be running the country now...

whats new in that , they are as least as culpable as the banks , dev , ff for the mess

u140acro3xs7dm

orourkeda wrote: »

I cant see how having a strong union is a problem. As long as they are doing their job then unions are here to stay whether people like it or not.

Without them thw whole of Ireland will become Ryanairland.

Say what ya like about Ryanair but they are an efficiently run company and very solvent. The Irish state on the other hand are the complete opposite.

godscop

scico rocks wrote: »

Hopefully changes - and i mean big changes - will happen to get rid of the waste that is the public sector. Seriously overstaffed, lack of hard work, every kind of ridiculous perk ie. term time, taking the whole summer off etc will finally be a thing of the past..........[/Q

I hope the sort out the wasters in the banks..A bonus for screwing the country..;)

ixoy

Reminded me of a blog for one of the Dublin NE candidates, with the following headline:

Government getting closer to selling our pubic forests!

I guess he'll be glad that Labour are taking up his interest in modern Irish grooming habits!

orourkeda

danbohan wrote: »

whats new in that , they are as least as culpable as the banks , dev , ff for the mess

Pardon my ignorance here, but how do you figure that the unions are at least as culpable as the banks for this mess?

KindOfIrish

orourkeda wrote: »

Without them thw whole of Ireland will become Ryanairland.

I, personally, prefer 20 euro return to London with Ryanair to 50 euro return to Dublin with unionased Irish Rail. Ryanairland would be my dream land!

orourkeda

Trenton Slow Slip wrote: »

Say what ya like about Ryanair but they are an efficiently run company and very solvent. The Irish state on the other hand are the complete opposite.

Ryanair is a well run business. There's no denying that but the perception is that they treat their staff like dirt. The fact that the irish state is poorly run is not entirely the fault of the unions.

orourkeda

KindOfIrish wrote: »

I, personally, prefer 20 euro return to London with Ryanair to 50 euro return to Dublin with unionased Irish Rail. Ryanairland would be my dream land!

€20 return flights to London are one thing.

A functioning public sector that treats it's staff fairly is another thing entirely.

orourkeda

godscop wrote: »

scico rocks wrote: »

Hopefully changes - and i mean big changes - will happen to get rid of the waste that is the public sector. Seriously overstaffed, lack of hard work, every kind of ridiculous perk ie. term time, taking the whole summer off etc will finally be a thing of the past..........[/Q

I hope the sort out the wasters in the banks..A bonus for screwing the country..;)

I dont think anyone would bemoan increased efficiency in the public sector.

The perception that a lack of hard work tkaes place is not entirely fair either.

phill106

chin_grin wrote: »

Right I'm going to point this out before it descends in to just out and out public sector bashing. (And possibly trolling). And no, I'm not 'in' it. But it's just something I've come to notice............

It's like any other job. You're going to get the wasters that will sit on their holes and think they can still get away with doing the absolute minimum, but then you get the ones that are breaking their backs and who realise that they are lucky to have a job, etc etc. Enrolling in loads of courses to get ahead and just being the backbone of the place.

If it comes to it I do hope the wasters get a good kick up the ar$e.

That is what the rest of us want! The people who give out about the public sector want to fire the wasters there, or at least be allowed to!

u140acro3xs7dm

orourkeda wrote: »

Ryanair is a well run business. There's no denying that but the perception is that they treat their staff like dirt. The fact that the irish state is poorly run is not entirely the fault of the unions.

Ryanair staff are well paid despite the public perception, they just work hard for it. I would have no problem with the Public sector getting paid well if they worked hard for it. They have all these perks because of the unions. Im not blaming frontline staff in the public sector either.

orourkeda

Trenton Slow Slip wrote: »

Ryanair staff are well paid despite the public perception, they just work hard for it. I would have no problem with the Public sector getting paid well if they worked hard for it. They have all these perks because of the unions. Im not blaming frontline staff in the public sector either.

All civil servants are not lazy or overpaid despite the public perception. Some of them work hard for what they earn.

BostonB

Personally I've not been impressed in working with the unions. They've often prevent improvements in processes where I've worked, like retaining paper work where its not needed, or prevent people from doing multiple jobs, where it makes no sense to split them between different people. Or unions not approving systems, when they have no one qualified to do so.

On the flip side they've prevent management from breaking agreements and messing with peoples lives for no good reason other than to play manager.

u140acro3xs7dm

orourkeda wrote: »

All civil servants are not lazy or overpaid despite the public perception. Some of them work hard for what they earn.

Thats the problem, some of them. I am not blaming the public sector staff. Their are Public Sector employees in my house and i have applied for a Public Sector job before. Half the management need to go and the remaining half need to manage so all of them are working hard.

I like my pubes the way they are, thank you very much.

chin_grin

Deleted User wrote: »

I like my pubes the way they are, thank you very much.

Shaven, not stirred?

orourkeda

BostonB wrote: »

Personally I've not been impressed in working with the unions. They've often prevent improvements in processes where I've worked, like retaining paper work where its not needed, or prevent people from doing multiple jobs, where it makes no sense to split them between different people. Or unions not approving systems, when they have no one qualified to do so.

On the flip side they've prevent management from breaking agreements and messing with peoples lives for no good reason other than to play manager.

Unions are fine when they are doing their jobs properly.

It's the fecky stuff that annoys people.

orourkeda

Trenton Slow Slip wrote: »

Thats the problem, some of them. I am not blaming the public sector staff. Their are Public Sector employees in my house and i have applied for a Public Sector job before. Half the management need to go and the remaining half need to manage so all of them are working hard.

Which begs the question, why are they there and who put them there?

gonedrinking

BizzyC wrote: »

labour in charge of public sector.....unions will be running the country now...

I tried to warn the electorate several times that a vote for labour was a vote for the unions, and I was laughed at and jeered. Well who's laughing now eh. You know, I'm not much on speeches, but its so gratifying to......leave you wallowing in the mess you've made. You're screwed, thank you, bye...

mikedragon32

Wow.

That is all I can say. Jokes are wasted of some of you. Clearly you're the cream of the Privates sector.

thomasj

mathie wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0308/1224291591888.html

With the finance portfolio being split into two component parts, it is expected that Fine Gael’s Michael Noonan will become minister for finance and Labour’s Joan Burton will become the minister with responsibility for expenditure and pubic sector reform.

STEPHEN COLLINS and HARRY McGEE

Legends.

Dear oh dear! what a blunder to make!

And its on the front page of the times!

mathie

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Wow.

That is all I can say. Jokes are wasted of some of you. Clearly you're the cream of the Privates sector.

Jokes?! No time for jokes.
Rabble.
Public sector.
Rabble.
Private sector.
Moo. Moo. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jester77

thomasj wrote: »

Dear oh dear! what a blunder to make!

And its on the front page of the times!

Are you referring to front page of their website or the print edition?
What a cock up!

thomasj

Its on both!

Biggins

thomasj wrote: »

Its on both!

Double balls up!

jester77

thomasj wrote: »

Its on both!

Someone's going to get a bollicking when they cum into the office this morning.

u140acro3xs7dm

jester77 wrote: »

Someone's going to get a bollicking when they cum into the office this morning.

Surely the editor reads the front page before approving it.

drdeadlift

Trenton Slow Slip wrote: »

Just the thought of her horrible whiny voice babbling on about reform is making me feel nauseous.

Seriously you people will never be pleased with whoever is in her position,we just had a general election maybe its time to be just a bit optimistic about the future.

TheZohanS

Nothing will change, this is all political spin.

Only at the weekend Enda Kenny backtracked on the number of Public Servant roles he was going to chop and FG openly admitted that they are going to have to follow FF's 4 year plan to a "t".

There's no real change, it's same shìt different day but with a different spin.

jester77

Trenton Slow Slip wrote: »

Surely the editor reads the front page before approving it.

Doesn't look like it Probably just ran it though a spell checker.

But then again, with the way Irish politics have been run over the previous years it wouldn't surprise me if there now was a ministerial position for pubic sector reform. Great way to get more people interested in politics.

Gunsfortoys

TheZohan wrote: »

Nothing will change, this is all political spin.

Only at the weekend Enda Kenny backtracked on the number of Public Servant roles he was going to chop and FG openly admitted that they are going to have to follow FF's 4 year plan to a "t".

There's no real change, it's same shìt different day but with a different spin.

4 years is enough time for FG to completely discredit themselves and for FF to enter power again.

You have to hand it to FF, it is almost as if they planned it.

TheZohanS

Here's your change:

The Fine Gael/Labour coalition Government is to implement in detail the outgoing Government's four-year austerity plan as approved by the EU-IMF, the Sunday Independent can reveal.
In what will amount to the most barefaced breach of election promises ever perpetrated by an incoming Government, the coalition partners' programme for government will cause uproar when it is published today.
While an attempt will be made to dress up the programme as a new plan by a new Government, when it is analysed it will be seen for what it is -- the continuation of the economic policies of Fianna Fail and the Greens, virtually in minute detail, as laid down by the EU-IMF.
If anything, Fine Gael will be seen to have capitulated more as it is handing over responsibility for reform of the public sector to Labour, whose core support is drawn from the public sector.
The programme envisages no more than 22,000 voluntary redundancies in the public sector, a long way short of Fine Gael's election promise to reduce the numbers employed by 30,000.
Fine Gael is expected to defend this U-turn by stating that 2,500 voluntary redundancies have already taken place in the public sector since January 2010.
However, the Fine Gael decision to hand reform of the public sector to Labour will provoke fury among many Fine Gael TDs, and cause uproar among the huge numbers who voted for Fine Gael.
Furthermore, it reduces the Government's chances of re-negotiating the EU-IMF bailout since our public spending excess is seen as a chronic problem in Europe.
The new Government will place heavy emphasis on its intention to renegotiate the bailout plan, as imposed on the outgoing Government, but the possibility of such a renegotiation is at least two, maybe three years away.
The omens are not good in this regard as the incoming Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, has already prepared the ground to pull back from his demand for "haircuts" on senior bank debt, saying other ways must be found to cut the cost of Ireland's bank bailout if losses are not imposed on bondholders.
"There is no way we are going to survive as a country unless we successfully renegotiate the EU-IMF deal," a senior Fine Gael source, familiar with the negotiations to form a Government, told the Sunday Independent yesterday.
The new Government will cite briefings on the dire state of the economy, and the banks to explain its decision to slip into the straitjacket imposed by the EU-IMF, just vacated by Fianna Fail and the Greens.
Yesterday, however, a well-placed Fine Gael source did not even attempt to disguise the fact that the new programme for government represents a rip-off of the outgoing Government's four-year plan as signed off on by the EU-IMF.
"Yes, we are going to have to stick with the four-year plan, at least for two or three years, and maybe even go further and deeper than the austerity measures envisaged in that plan," he said. "There is no getting away from that. I cannot deny it.
"The country is banjaxed, worse than we ever imagined. We have no choice."
In effect, the programme for government negotiated between Fine Gael and Labour will represent a middle-ground compromise on the respective election promises of FG and Labour, particularly in relation to the economy.
However, Fine Gael has ceded to Labour the issue of reform of the public sector, which is certain to anger the hundreds of thousands of private sector workers who voted for Fine Gael in the General Election.
An analysis of voting patterns carried out by the Sunday Independent reveals that only 16 per cent of Fine Gael voters gave their second preference to Labour candidates, while Labour transfers to Fine Gael amounted to just 35 per cent.
The analysis, therefore, shows that Fine Gael voters made it clear that they were not supporting a Fine Gael/Labour coalition; while there was greater Labour support for this form of Government, a majority of Labour voters did not favour coalition with Fine Gael either.
In the Sunday Independent today, Independent TD Shane Ross, who had offered up to eight Independent TDs to support a minority Fine Gael Government, writes: "These guys fell into each other's arms months ago.
"Any observer of the camaraderie in Leinster House over the years knows that their 14 years in the political wilderness of opposition have united them in one common mission: power. To hell with policy, it is time to divide the spoils. Spoils first, policy later."
However, it is the specifics of policy, as contained in the programme for government, which are now certain to provoke the anger of the electorate.
In the election campaign, Fine Gael promised to reduce numbers working in the public sector by 30,000, through a scheme of voluntary redundancy, under the Croke Park deal. But Labour said a voluntary reduction of the order of 18,000 would suffice.
The Sunday Independent has learned that the new government programme commits to reducing employment in the public sector by, at most, 22,000 through the Croke Park deal, a concession by Fine Gael which represents a huge victory for Labour.
Yesterday, a senior Fine Gael TD who is not party to the negotiations said: "If we hand over the public sector to Labour the game is up, we will be finished before we start. It is one of the most central issues, if not the main issue. This will lead to deep divisions in Fine Gael."
Another Fine Gael TD told the Sunday Independent: "Already today I have had two businessmen on to me about this. If Fine Gael lets Labour have the public sector, it's over for us, game, set and match."
The Sunday Independent understands that the new government will embark on a programme of the sale of non-strategic state assets, ostensibly to provide for a job stimulus package as promised by Fine Gael in the election campaign.
However, there is growing concern within Fine Gael that the sale of semi-states will take place to spare greater savings in the public sector.
In relation to the economy, both Fine Gael and Labour have compromised their election promises to, in effect, bring them closer to the commitments of Fianna Fail's four-year plan.
For example, the new programme for government commits to reducing the national deficit to three per cent of Gross Domestic Product by 2015: in the election campaign, Fine Gael said its aim was to reduce the deficit by 2014 and Labour said by 2016.
Fine Gael will claim victory insofar as the new programme commits to no new or increased taxes on work, not even on those who earn in excess of €100,000 a year, as proposed by Labour during the election.
However, a raft of stealth taxes will be contained in the government programme, such as water charges and property taxes. Other, more obscure stealth taxes are also expected.
It is also understood that Fas is to be abolished and its functions absorbed into the workings of the Department of Social Protection.
The issue of public sector reform will move centre stage when the new Government is in power. The credibility of Fine Gael and Labour on this issue, however, will be damaged by a decision not to cut the number of ministers of state.
While the new government programme contains a range of proposed political reforms, the Sunday Independent understands that all 14 junior ministers are to be retained.
Further briefings indicate the possible make-up of the Cabinet: the Fine Gael contingent will include Enda Kenny (Taoiseach); James Reilly (Health); Phil Hogan (Environment); Alan Shatter (Attorney-General or Justice); Richard Bruton, Michael Noonan, Leo Varadkar; Simon Coveney; and Frances Fitzgerald. Sean Barrett is expected to be made Ceann Comhairle.
The Labour contingent will include Eamon Gilmore; Joan Burton; Brendan Howlin; Ruairi Quinn; and Pat Rabbitte. The Labour portfolios will include a new department for public sector reform; and Foreign Affairs, Enterprise & Employment and Education. It is expected Labour will also have a 'super-junior' minister at Cabinet, either Jan O'Sullivan from Limerick or Sean Sherlock from Cork.
The Fine Gael parliamentary party is to discuss the programme for government tomorrow; the programme will also go before a Labour special delegate conference in Dublin today.
Shortly before 10pm last night, Fine Gael's chief negotiator Phil Hogan emerged from the talks to say that the parties would reach a deal by the end of the night. He said that there were just "three or four policy issues" remaining to be sorted out, and added that the shape of the Government -- meaning the dividing out of the ministers' portfolios -- had yet to be agreed upon.
Sources close to the talks said that negotiations were prolonged into the early hours because Mr Gilmore was demanding six full ministers at Cabinet table -- while Mr Kenny was adamant that Labour could only have five, plus one "super junior".

Source.