[TEST LAUNCH] http://search.boards.ie - now ye're searching

seamus

It would be helpful to say what's wrong with the new search rather than just complain about it. At least then they get the chance to you know, fix it.

Dav

If there's one universal constant it's that people are always unhappy with change.

I'd also love to know how throwing months of development work and time away is an "obvious next step" :rolleyes:

New search is a hell of a lot faster than the old one, a lot less database intensive and you can finally search for terms shorter an 4 letters long.

It's not perfect (yet), but it's the main focus of the Tech team at the moment. So as seamus said, tell us what's wrong and we can do something about it.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Zab

I assume that this new search is much less resource intensive than the last one and therefore is a long term necessity?

However, even if that's the case then I'd still believe that it's been launched too early. It is not yet integrated with the rest of the boards system enough for it to be a worthy successor. I'm sure there are loads of issues based on what you can search for (as people have mentioned), but for me the two biggest issues are the jarringly different look & feel (I use a theme too, it just vanishes) and the fact that it doesn't mark the threads as read or not. I'm aware these things will likely come in time, I'm just not sure why you decided to launch it before it was fully developed.

5starpool

A suggestion I would have is to move the forum the result is posted in to the start of the indented results as it is pretty small at the moment. To illustrate using find all posts by Seamus, here is the current result format:

Well that's the Irish begrudgery leeroy. We can never stand to see someone do...

Well that's the Irish begrudgery leeroy. We can never stand to see someone doing well, and if they are, it must be because they're somehow screwing me over.

* 37 minutes ago in Irish Economy by seamus
* 112 Replies
* 2,483 Views


If it could be changed to be something like:

Irish Economy >>> Well that's the Irish begrudgery leeroy. We can never stand to see someone do...

Well that's the Irish begrudgery leeroy. We can never stand to see someone doing well, and if they are, it must be because they're somehow screwing me over.

* 37 minutes ago in Irish Economy by seamus
* 112 Replies
* 2,483 Views


I think it would be better. It wouldn't need to be repeated for the rest of the indented results for that forum. Also, new search still does not allow certain forums such as feedback, PI to be searchable. I was hoping this would be changed with the new search.

Could it be possible to have more results per page as well perhaps?

testicle

Dav wrote: »

If there's one universal constant it's that people are always unhappy with change.

I'd also love to know how throwing months of development work and time away is an "obvious next step" :rolleyes:

New search is a hell of a lot faster than the old one, a lot less database intensive and you can finally search for terms shorter an 4 letters long.

It's not perfect (yet), but it's the main focus of the Tech team at the moment. So as seamus said, tell us what's wrong and we can do something about it.

Why is the site as slow as treacle when POSTing something for the last few days?

AckwelFoley

Im finding it difficult to be positive about the new search for one simple reason - i cant seem to use it for the reason i used the old one

I used the quick search to type in "snyper" and then tick the search posts box.

This allowed me to simply find when and where i was quoted so i could reply to anyone that quoted me, be it good bad or indifferent

0verblood

Dav wrote: »

If there's one universal constant it's that people are always unhappy with change.

I'd also love to know how throwing months of development work and time away is an "obvious next step" :rolleyes:

New search is a hell of a lot faster than the old one, a lot less database intensive and you can finally search for terms shorter an 4 letters long.

It's not perfect (yet), but it's the main focus of the Tech team at the moment. So as seamus said, tell us what's wrong and we can do something about it.

Hello Dav.

There is nothing wrong with change, and people can be happy with change when it's needed and if it's in the right direction. Well this change to the search engine is neither. It's buggy, my latest posts aren't up to date, I'm having trouble searching for usernames, I can't seem to be able to search for "title only". Also, where has the "Find all threads by XXXX" option gone?

And I know it's not good for the Admins egos to get rid of this failed search engine, but it just seems so pointless. You've gotten rid of something that worked perfectly and replaced it with a buggy 1st year computer science project. And I don't notice any difference in speed, in fact the older one is faster, as it's easier to navigate through.

Hopefully the old search engine will never be de-commissioned so I'll always have a handy link to it in my bookmarks.

Anyway, why was the old system replaced? Other than the fact that it's less database intensive.

Dudess

Dav wrote: »

If there's one universal constant it's that people are always unhappy with change.

I appreciate that Dav, and yeah, it's probably part of the issue - something familiar phased out/disappearing is never popular... and then, within no time, peeps are used to the replacement and all is well with the world again.
However... this new search function, while faster certainly, and allowing for a search with a term shorter than four characters (both good features) is otherwise not seeming to offer what the old search did. The reasons are from post 160 onwards on the main thread. Personally I don't see a problem with a change to the look of it, but could it not offer the same functions as the old one?

0verblood wrote: »

And I know it's not good for the Admins egos to get rid of this failed search engine

Uncalled for really - if there's a reason why an admin like Zaph or Beruthiel or Gordon would give a sh1t if the new one was done away with, I certainly can't think of it. I've no doubt there are admins who don't like the new search.
As for those involved in site development, well I could understand more some defensiveness from them if the criticism is shouty and aggressive - it's not nice to spend ages working on something and to get a really hostile reception rather than constructive criticism.

Anyway, why was the old system replaced? Other than the fact that it's less database intensive.

Huge strain on servers or database or something (luddite here ) - at one stage last year or the year before, search was switched off entirely for a while.

pickarooney

Dav wrote: »

It's not perfect (yet), but it's the main focus of the Tech team at the moment. So as seamus said, tell us what's wrong and we can do something about it.

There have been many posts pointing out just what is missing in the new search in the dedicated thread (I think this one should be merged into it BTW). Just one reply acknowledging the points and saying they will be addressed soon would probably calm everyone down.

Tallon

How do I search for threads started by someone?

0verblood

Dudess wrote: »

I appreciate that Dav, and yeah, it's probably part of the issue - something familiar phased out/disappearing is never popular... and then, within no time, peeps are used to the replacement and all is well with the world again.

They replace a perfectly working search engine with a far-from-complete one which has 20% of the functionality of the original and is actually pretty much useless... and the boardsies are the problem because they're "opposed to change". :rolleyes:

Imagine if firefox released a browser which barely functioned, in which you couldn't even surf the web, and at the same time made it next to impossible to use another working version of firefox. If they received complaints about it, it would be the people that are wrong, because they're opposed to change right? Yeah... makes sense.

Dudess, peoples attitude to change has nothing to do with this. In fact, look at the first page of the Test Launch thread when they announced the new system, it got like 65 thanks and some nice supporting comments... people liked the change! But that was before they noticed all the flaws.

As for those involved in site development, well I could understand more some defensiveness from them if the criticism is shouty and aggressive - it's not nice to spend ages working on something and to get a really hostile reception rather than constructive criticism.

Really... what do they expect by forcing boardsies to use the new search engine which is barely functional? Sorry if I come across as shouty and aggressive but if a user can't get accurate search results for comments they made (for example my most recent comment in the search engine is from 8 hours ago... the one I made at 18:35 seems to be lost in cyberspace), and they can't search for threads they created, and they can't search for posts where they've been quoted... how the feck is boards supposed to work? Do I need a pen and paper to keep track of all the threads I've commented on?

0verblood

Dav wrote: »

I'd also love to know how throwing months of development work and time away is an "obvious next step" :rolleyes:

By the way I wasn't asking you to throw it away, just remove it. And when it's almost complete, bring it back.

seamus

0verblood wrote: »

Really... what do they expect by forcing boardsies to use the new search engine which is barely functional?

Overblood, I see a lot of text in your posts and no content.

Just a lot of whinging that it doesn't work, and it's buggy, but very little specifics.

Here, look, I'll give you an example of what I mean, here's a gripe of mine:

When you do a search for "All posts by XXXX" it doesn't show you whether the thread has new posts in it or not. I use this function to look at threads I've posted in. If I can't see whether there have been new replies, then "All posts by seamus" is useless to me.

Now, your turn. What bugs have you encountered that are so seriously hampering your ability to use the search?

Yes, I'm being a little sour with you because I know well what it's like to make a change for the better only to have users turn around and tell you they don't like it for no specific reason, and can we go back to the old inefficient system please, for no reason other than they're comfortable with the old way.

0verblood

seamus wrote: »

Overblood, I see a lot of text in your posts and no content.

Just a lot of whinging that it doesn't work, and it's buggy, but very little specifics.

Dav asked me for specifics, I listed them. In two separate posts, and also referred him to the other thread full of specific problems which he seems to be ignoring. Are you blind?

What bugs have you encountered that are so seriously hampering your ability to use the search?

Hmm lets see, your link defines a bug as a failure, or fault in a system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result. Well one failure of this new search system is that it says my most recent post is from 8 hours ago... which is an incorrect or unexpected result, as I just posted something at 9pm... therefore, "All posts by 0verblood" is useless to me. Also, another bug: if a search result contains two lines of text, they overlap eachother. By the way what was the point of linking to wikipedia?

Yes, I'm being a little sour with you because I know well what it's like to make a change for the better only to have users turn around and tell you they don't like it for no specific reason

Yes... I never gave a specific reason. I just hate change. That's why I never use the internet, I'm typing this through Teletext.

biko

snyper wrote: »

Im finding it difficult to be positive about the new search for one simple reason - i cant seem to use it for the reason i used the old one

I used the quick search to type in "snyper" and then tick the search posts box.

This allowed me to simply find when and where i was quoted so i could reply to anyone that quoted me, be it good bad or indifferent

This ^^^
I use the search to find people mentioning me or if there are reports for me to action. Now it seems to ignore reports where I'm mentioned.

If I use the "Find More Posts by xxx" that drops down if you click a users name I get the new search with a different layout and skin.

I'll probably get used to/workaround the new interface but imo there was no problem with the old one, except it was heavy on the DB. So it feels like users are being punished for a back-end problem.

The new interface have the options to Reindex Post | Reindex Thread for some reason, I'm not sure what they're supposed to help with. Why ask the user to index?

5starpool

0verblood wrote: »

Well one failure of this new search system is that it says my most recent post is from 8 hours ago... which is an incorrect or unexpected result, as I just posted something at 9pm... therefore, "All posts by 0verblood" is useless to me.

Some forums such as feedback are not searchable on new or old search systems, so if you are referring to your posts here, that is why they don't show up.

Necronomicon

Dav wrote: »

It's not perfect (yet), but it's the main focus of the Tech team at the moment. So as seamus said, tell us what's wrong and we can do something about it.

What snyper said above about searching for posts by a specific user is one.

Also, not being able to limit search terms to thread titles is a huge loss IMO. I mentioned it in the other thread, this is what I mostly used search for.

liah

Am I the only one who hated the old one? It was such a pain to search a specific forum, had to scroll for aaaaaaaaaaages and miss it about 10 times til you could select it.

I like this one a hell of a lot better than the old ugly one.

0verblood

5starpool wrote: »

Some forums such as feedback are not searchable on new or old search systems, so if you are referring to your posts here, that is why they don't show up.

I think you've just solved the mystery, thanks! That leaves only one bug so... ah these Admins aren't the worst so they're not.

Toto Wolfcastle

I'd like to see the thread title included. That's what the link at the top of the posts should read rather than the first few words of the post.

Ross

Threads merged.

biko wrote: »

The new interface have the options to Reindex Post | Reindex Thread for some reason, I'm not sure what they're supposed to help with. Why ask the user to index?

Mod features - you should read the OP of the equivalent thread about search in the mod forum.

Man there is some bile in one or two of these replies, but a couple of genuine grievances that are eminently solvable.

Would you believe I forgot about vanity searches? We tested this thing pretty extensively in the office, then out amongst the moderators, worked out a bunch of kinks, but nobody ever mentioned being able to search for people quoting them as a killer feature.

Hands up, my bad.

There are also a few bugs, but frankly, if we waited to cover every possible use case, A) we'd never launch, and we'd never find out the real problems.

I'll address this more in depth tomorrow, but please guys, the old search is still available by going directly to the URL for now. Less of the hate and a bit more information from you would be beneficial.

To those of you that have been eloquent (if frustrated) from the start, many thanks.

Tallon

Tallon wrote: »

How do I search for threads started by someone?

*cough*

colly10

Dav wrote: »

If there's one universal constant it's that people are always unhappy with change.

Sure thats always the answer, why request feedback if thats the mentality.
If it lacks functionality that they use, they will be unhappy.
I use the old search for nearly everything I do on boards. The new posts link comes a distant second.
The site itself is far less attractive to me without the old advanced search. I cannot keep track of threads the way I did, it's say many of the people who gave good feedback barely used the old advanced search

Dav wrote: »

It's not perfect (yet), but it's the main focus of the Tech team at the moment.

It's far from it, but was rolled out now to replace a working search despite it lacking the functionality of the old one and all recent posts in the "test launch" saying that they dislike the new one.

Dav wrote: »

New search is a hell of a lot faster, alot less database intensive

Did anyone complain about the old one being slow? It's also FAR slower for the user to find what they're looking for (if they even can anymore). Also end users don't care about calls to the DB and you would hope that managements main focus would be the end user? Just seems like a bit of a carzone move to me.

Ross wrote: »

but frankly, if we waited to cover every possible use case

You can't return results by threads, it's hardly minor, it was the default on the old advanced search

Dav wrote: »

tell us what's wrong and we can do something about it

Havn't exactly done exhaustive testing but a few obvious ones to me would be (I only use the advanced search btw) -

1. It's not possible to return results by threads rather than posts.

2. The search returns a bunch of posts, you cannot actually see the name of the thread that posts relate to so it's much harder to see if that post actually relates to what your actually looking for. This is a big one, say i'm looking for a thread I posted in last week, I have to skim read all the posts it returns to work out which one was in the thread i'm looking for, eg.- not easy if i'm looking for a boxing thread if I posted in a load of them over the last while (because i'm discussing boxing in all them).

3. Because it doesn't return posts by thread, I can't just go straight to the last post in the thread, obviously that doesn't take long to get there but it's more time added to point 2 above

4. I cannot get it to return all threads i've posted in in the order that they were last posted in (related to point 1 above). This is a big loss because I cannot check which ones have had much/any activity since I last posted in them. To do this I have to work out which posts are from which threads, then click each of them to see which threads have or have not been updated.
In perticular if a thread I posted in goes quiet for 2 weeks, then gets a few post in it, it is impossible for me to tell that it's active again because that thread would be buried in a bunch of my posts (down the list) with no signs the thread had been updated. With the old search, that thread would be right up near the top cause someone posted in it recently and I can see the date/time of the last post in the thread

5. I cannot search for where my posts were quoted, just putting your name in the search term (rather than author) and selecting to return by posts would return this in the old search. These results are omitted by the new search.

6. Newest first should be default on new search, best match returns irrelevent stuff (especially if searching by author) although it's handy enough for the user to just select it

7. I cannot decide whether to search by thread titles or titles + content. Although the search by threads would have to be available before this one is.

There's probably a few more but that's all i've spotted, havn't really been checking much though. Don't mean any offence by the way, boards is a great site, it would be the main one I use, it's just I think alot is lost by getting rid of the old advanced search and boards did ask for feedback.

colly10

Tallon wrote: »

*cough*

You cant as far as i'm aware, you can't search for threads full stop, only posts

Tallon

colly10 wrote: »

You cant as far as i'm aware, you can't search for threads full stop, only posts

Why remove a widely used feature like that?

K-9

Tallon wrote: »

Why remove a widely used feature like that?

I don't think it was done on purpose now!

If you read Ross' reply you'll see it was missed.

I blame the mods myself!

Dudess

Ross wrote: »

Would you believe I forgot about vanity searches?

In my opinion, a vanity search is one where a person wants to see if something has been said about them; but a search for your username being quoted is more for debate-engaging purposes - to check whether there were any responses for you to reply to.

Conor

One (brief) point and then I'll go back to lurking:

The old search is killing us slowly. It's not something that can be fixed by throwing more hardware at it. We got away with that (most of the time) for several years but it's not a strategy that works forever. It's not something that can be fixed with a minor software change either. Right now, the site locks up several times a day when a cluster of bad searches coming in. Sometimes it will lock for over 2-3 minutes where no-one can use the site at all. It's not acceptable - either from a usability or security point of view - to have a feature which is capable of disabling the site. It's not a question of volume of search, two or three unfortunately-timed bad searches can slow the site to a crawl. The old search needs to be removed ASAP and it won't be left hanging around forever as a hidden/restricted feature.

Steve

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

I'd like to see the thread title included. That's what the link at the top of the posts should read rather than the first few words of the post.

+1 to this.

It's probably the only thing I'd have a gripe with - maybe that's because I use the search more as a mod than to find 'interesting stuff' but it's relevant info in a search result that I wouldn't like to lose access to.

Other than that, top class job.