how you seen the state of the new dail

Jim

Papa Smut wrote: »

This is what we're arguing about now?!

I guess all must be well and good with the country so :rolleyes:

It's something simple, obvious and tangable that everyone can argue about and everyone can have an opinion on.

"We should reject the IMF and EU deal. We'd be better off on our own!"
"Why do you say that? What are the economic repercussions"
"Erm..."

Versus

"I don't like pink!"

Laminations

Right, I'm off, when I start getting silly infractions I get disinterested mighty quick

Scofflaw

Laminations wrote: »

Right, I'm off, when I start getting silly infractions I get disinterested mighty quick

And when you feel you're above being moderated for making snide personal attacks, you also get a ban.

7 day ban for discussing moderation on thread on top of snide personal attacks.

moderately,
Scofflaw

steelcityblues

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.ighlights the snob in you!

RGDATA!

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wearing a suit wont solve the issues of this country!

I refute any claim that the appearance of these people is anything to do with their potential qualities.

+1

Cannibal Ox

Quote from recent Irish Times article about politicians on the campaign trail and clothes.

Eoghan Murphy wrote:

“You would hope it wouldn’t be important, but presentation has to play a role and communicate part of the message. I want my suit to be a uniform, a suit of armour, smart and practical. And out canvassing you get through shoes, mine have been resoled twice. I’m not fussy about them – if I have to buy them I’ll buy four at a time.”

He's right about dress symbolizing a message, Jackie Healy Rae's hat did more then cover up his bald spot.

In a way it is ridiculous to argue about fashion sense when there is so much else happening, but at the same time it is important because what a politician wear can symbolize their political message.

In that sense, you could argue it's unfair on the other TDs to circumvent the established rules because it gets the message across so clearly that Mick Wallace, Ming etc, etc aren't part of the established order because of what they wear.

Even if they are forced to wear suits for the next meeting, they've gotten their point across and pretty effectively.

hatrickpatrick

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

But why? What actual practical difference does it make?
I apply this to schools and other professions as well, btw. Unless wearing certain clothes affects your job itself - for instance actors in costume, or staff wearing uniforms or logos so as customers know who to approach for customer support - I utterly fail to see how it's relevant whether you're "in uniform" or not. It's ridiculous IMO.

Biggins wrote: »

* Think of Harney on a beach somewhere *
O' the horror! :pac:

I hate to be the one to say this, but....... Rule 34
:P
Hope that won't affect your sleep tonight!

whiteonion

Permabear wrote: »

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Appearance is not that important. I know of a certain minister of finance with a pony tail and an earring who happens to be one of the most respected ones in Europe.

Permabear

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DoesNotCompute

blacksmith105 wrote: »

oh sweet holy devine .. have you seen the newly elected independent TD speaking in the dail ... i hope to jaysus that the IMF are not watching this have you seen the state of Mick Wallace, Ming Flanaghan and Richard Boyd Barrett they look like they have been dragged backwards through a hedge.
If the IMF watch this I reckon the interest rate will be doubled .

Someone should teach them that they need to look respectable and respect the environment that they have been elected to , A decent shirt and necktie is the minimum required as they are representing the people of this country .
The people who voted for these people voted for change but for fecks sake wear a suit and tie these guys are standing on hallowed ground .
Even Healy rae wore a suit ... have we just elected the biggest set of gombeen men again

The country's bankrupt, our politicians can't even afford neckties

Brenireland

blacksmith105 wrote: »

oh sweet holy devine .. have you seen the newly elected independent TD speaking in the dail ... i hope to jaysus that the IMF are not watching this have you seen the state of Mick Wallace, Ming Flanaghan and Richard Boyd Barrett they look like they have been dragged backwards through a hedge.
If the IMF watch this I reckon the interest rate will be doubled .

Someone should teach them that they need to look respectable and respect the environment that they have been elected to , A decent shirt and necktie is the minimum required as they are representing the people of this country .
The people who voted for these people voted for change but for fecks sake wear a suit and tie these guys are standing on hallowed ground .
Even Healy rae wore a suit ... have we just elected the biggest set of gombeen men again

fair point with regards the dress code for the dail,however I do feel "Ming" Flanagan done quite a lot of good for himself great talk today & like wise Boyd-Barrett.

gbee

blacksmith105 wrote: »

If the IMF watch this I reckon the interest rate will be doubled .

On the contrary, they'll realise that we burn "your loan is being sold to third parties who will take every effort to recover same" letters.

We might actually reply with a letter of our own.

Ash.J.Williams

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

To date, we have been seen as a joke internationally, and that's with a shirt and tie. I wish all our new TD's the best and they can wear a toga as long as they do the job to the best of their abilities.

hotmail.com

Every parliament in the world has a few characters - get over it.

murpho999

Permabear wrote: »

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This is the bit that always get me!

Can you tell me how people abroad will see this?

Dail Eireann does not make much news abroad and the views of an independent backbencher will not make international news.

Really is over-dramatising how much people keep an eye on Ireland. Lived in Holland for years and most people there think Ireland is part of England so don't even know we have a parliament.

In relation to Mick's appearance, think he could have shaved and worn a less colourful shirt but it doesn't really bother me.

What I do find hard to accept is that a man of his age dyes his hair blonde!

RobbieTheRobber

Permabear wrote: »

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Sorry who will judge us the english parliament who formerly had elected racists in the form of BNP.

Or perhaps berlusconi the most corrupt leader in politics, or perhaps maybe he will get his former porn star ministers to judge us.

No maybe it will be the germans where only recently one of their minsiters had to resign because he copied near verbatim sections for his thesis.

Are these the nations you speak of that will judge us?

The are far worse things in the political world than an independant TD(not even a government minister) who has no respect for tradtition.

The only people I see putting us down are a minority of irish people, some who have questionably been very supportive of fianna fail throughout the lead up to the election.

So is the real issue nothing to do with attire but rather more to do with a lack of a fianna fail badge atop his populist clothing! :rolleyes:

3ndahalfof6

Permabear wrote: »

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shirt and tie toeing the party, no shirt or tie, if yis mess with us weeel fook your shiit up.

i suppose being an overweight undersized minister of health there was nobody from other countries laffin.

who would ya have Mick or Mary.

COYW

Permabear wrote: »

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100% correct. I have been working with a group from Switzerland all day today who flew in this morning. Over lunch we were watching the speeches from the Dail. On seeing the independents they were gobsmacked. One of them actually questioned if their attire was acceptable. As a tax payer and an irish citizen, I felt utterly embarrassed.

These people are very well paid now. There is absolutely no reason why the gents cant tidy themselves up and put on a suit. If I walked into my place of work tomorrow dressed like a tramp, I would be told to go home and I would lose a days pay.

If they have such a lack of respect for the Dail then they should not have run in the first place.

Biggins

Permabear wrote: »

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So instead of looking at the other 150+ TD's you home in on the few that are not to your dress code liking? Great start indeed - and I don't mean by them!

O' and by the way Italy at one stage had recently a porn actress that oft times turned up around the place wearing bugger all.
She in her time went on to be one of the best of people's representatives and was taken quite seriously - for the simple reason that she knew her stuff. She even set-up her own political party!
(Here) She did get elected in 1987, with approx 20,000 votes and the point was made.

If anyone else is looking in from Europe, do we not think for one second that they might also think "Goodness - they elected a fair variety of characters to their representative house! I wish we could do that too!" - No, some of us must automatically think the worst and judge by the look of a cover - not the actual contents or even give anyone a decent chance to allow their contents to be seen!

I'm sick of such backward people! It is partly what has the country the way it is!
(Lets just all like good sheep, only swallow the outside PR image)

daddydick

Wallace, Boyd Barrett and Ming all looked dishevelled...their appearance was a joke and quite frankly a disgrace. Wear a suit, a tie and have a shave for God's sake..!

RobbieTheRobber

COYW wrote: »

100% correct. I have been working with a group from Switzerland all day today who flew in this morning. Over lunch we were watching the speeches from the Dail. On seeing the independents they were gobsmacked. One of them actually questions if their attire was acceptable. As a tax payer and irish citizen, I felt utterly embarrassed.

These people are very well paid now. There is absolutely no reason why the gents cant tidy themselves up and put on a suit. If I walked into my place of work tomorrow dressed like a tramp, I would be told to go home and I would lose a days pay.

If they have such a lack of respect for the Dail then they should not have run in the first place.

The ULA and Sinn fein TD's take no more than the average industrial wage as pay for themselves and as for the other independents, have they yet been paid a salary?

How could they when the dail didnt even know who the ministers would be?

raymon

maybe we should bring back more FF suit wearers like this upstanding citizen

COYW

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The ULA and Sinn fein TD's take no more than the average industrial wage as pay for themselves and as for the other independents, have they yet been paid a salary?

They take the full amount from the tax payer like every other TD. The surplus goes to their respective parties, allegedly. They are not saving the tax payer a penny.

Dave!

The people dressing 'like slobs' are independent TDs who have no power, so I don't see the big deal. As mentioned above, actual government ministers in other countries have their share of legitimate controversies, so I don't much care what Mick Wallace wears. Nobody outside of Ireland will even see him tbh, so how will it damage our international credibility?

Aidric

Dave! wrote: »

I don't much care what Mick Wallace wears. Nobody outside of Ireland will even see him tbh, so how will it damage our international credibility?

He is to be the subject of a New York Times editorial tomorrow, I understand.

Pauleta

I think Mick Wallace looked sharp today. All he was lacking was a suit jacket, which would of been hard to match with his pink shirt. Im gonna give him a thumbs up. Richard Boyd-Barrett on the other hand looked like a tramp and showed his constituents and the nation a lack of respect. As a constituent of Dun Laoghaire i shall be writing to him to complain.

Sir Oxman

raymon wrote: »

maybe we should bring back more FF suit wearers like this upstanding citizen

I agree - he's super-dapper and obviously, going by this irrefutable and immovable law of judging books by their cover, he must be an upstanding, intelligent, socially-aware and honourable public representative.

I mean, how could he not be going on appearances rather than his actions...oh wait.

happyoutscan

daddydick wrote: »

Wallace, Boyd Barrett and Ming all looked dishevelled...their appearance was a joke and quite frankly a disgrace. Wear a suit, a tie and have a shave for God's sake..!

Based on how good I thought Ming spoke and represented his constituency, I have absolutely no interest in what he wears or how he grows his facial hair.

happyoutscan

COYW wrote: »

I have been working with a group from Switzerland all day today who flew in this morning. Over lunch we were watching the speeches from the Dail. On seeing the independents they were gobsmacked. One of them actually questioned if their attire was acceptable. As a tax payer and an irish citizen, I felt utterly embarrassed.

Think this says more about you...

Biggins

happyoutscan wrote: »

Based on how good I thought Ming spoke and represented his constituency, I have absolutely no interest in what he wears or how he grows his facial hair.

I'd say tonight his constituency are even more proud of him - and rightly so.
If only those in suits could speak so eloquently alone - and some of them have been there years!

d'Oracle

happyoutscan wrote: »

Based on how good I thought Ming spoke and represented his constituency, I have absolutely no interest in what he wears or how he grows his facial hair.

Based on how he performed on the radio the other day, I have grave reservations about what he wears or how he grows his facial hair.

LordSutch

blacksmith105 wrote: »

how you seen the state of the new dail

Have you seen?

Einhard

COYW wrote: »

100% correct. I have been working with a group from Switzerland all day today who flew in this morning. Over lunch we were watching the speeches from the Dail. On seeing the independents they were gobsmacked. One of them actually questioned if their attire was acceptable. As a tax payer and an irish citizen, I felt utterly embarrassed.

To be honest, if I were Swiss I'd be more gobsmacked at the recent legislation prohibiting minarets in their country, than the colour of the shirt worn by one of 166 legislators in a country which hasn't yet, despite all its difficulties, stooped to the level of legislating for xenophobia.

Also, if they judged the man entirely by what he wore, then they were worhty of nothing but contempt. I'd subscribe to a fund to buy Wallace a nice suit and a hair cut, but I'd never presume to judge his character or his policies by his dress.

Also, TBH, I thought he scrubbed up reasonably well today!

wow sierra

Does anyone else think that the negative comment about the attire of the Independents is just an attempt to undermine them and divert attention from their actual contribution. I for one was quite impressed by them. It really gave me some heart today to know that there will be a vocal opposition to this Government.

Also they were dressed neatly - Mick Wallace for example made a huge compromise to dress like that.

As had been said here many times - it was the Bankers and Politicians in their suits who got us into this mess in the first place.

karma_

wow sierra wrote: »

Does anyone else think that the negative comment about the attire of the Independents is just an attempt to undermine them and divert attention from their actual contribution. I for one was quite impressed by them. It really gave me some heart today to know that there will be a vocal opposition to this Government.

Also they were dressed neatly - Mick Wallace for example made a huge compromise to dress like that.

As had been said here many times - it was the Bankers and Politicians in their suits who got us into this mess in the first place.

Indeed, about as shallow an attack as is possible.

Einhard

Pauleta wrote: »

I think Mick Wallace looked sharp today. All he was lacking was a suit jacket, which would of been hard to match with his pink shirt. Im gonna give him a thumbs up. Richard Boyd-Barrett on the other hand looked like a tramp and showed his constituents and the nation a lack of respect. As a constituent of Dun Laoghaire i shall be writing to him to complain.

DL/Rathdown must have a classier sort of tramp than the rest of the country!;)

To tell the truth, having heard all the complaints about the attire of the variious independents, I was a bit disappointed when I actually saw them, relatively reasonably dressed. From listening to Joe Duffy, I expected Mick Wallace to at least have most of buttons of his shirt undone, and perhaps a big gold medallion sitting on his bare chest!

wow sierra

COYW wrote: »

100% correct. I have been working with a group from Switzerland all day today who flew in this morning. Over lunch we were watching the speeches from the Dail. On seeing the independents they were gobsmacked. One of them actually questioned if their attire was acceptable. As a tax payer and an irish citizen, I felt utterly embarrassed.

These people are very well paid now. There is absolutely no reason why the gents cant tidy themselves up and put on a suit. If I walked into my place of work tomorrow dressed like a tramp, I would be told to go home and I would lose a days pay.

If they have such a lack of respect for the Dail then they should not have run in the first place.

If you are so concerned about our image as a nation you should have used the opportunity to defend the rights of these individuals to dress as they did. You could have explained that they are infact intelligent, articulate people who have a mandate from their local area, based on what they have done rather than how they dress. There are many thousands of people in this country whose lives have been improved by the efforts of the people who you are embarrassed by. If you knew anything about their achievements you could have shared them with your guests like a proud Irish person.

AlekSmart

Anybody who was/is familiar with Mr Wallace who,in reality has made more principled stands than most of the other 165 TD`s put together,would not be at all surprised at his dress.

For many years this man was a familiar sight at his company`s various Dublin City Council contracts,where he spent most of the time actually working alongside his employees.

He remains also one of the few well known business people openly "shafted" by the Official Ireland bespoke-suit brigade in the wake of his openly disagreeing with Official Ireland`s accolade being visited upon George Bush.

Oh yes indeed Mick Wallace and his employees were taught a lesson by the men-in-suits back then alright,as his Dublin City Council contracts mysteriously and rapidly evaporated...:o

I`m sorry Blacksmith105,but I`d suggest Mick Wallace,more than most has good grounds to regard that patch of Dublin 2 as somewhat less than "Hallowed"

county man

Joe Higgins doesnt wear a tie and neither did Tony Gregory.Never did them any harm.

Dyr

Permabear wrote: »

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Ah yes... the net curtain irish, still petrified about what others might think

raymon

More fine honest , hard working , selfless role models .

Great lads and ladies - and never robbed a penny !!!

Fitzerb

Ray Burkes Pension wrote: »

They're just treating the Dail with the respect it deserves.

Therfore they are treating you and I with the same respect

A Dub in Glasgo

I learned many moons ago that those who want to pull the wool over your eyes will ensure they wear a suit. Presumably they do this because there are many people out there (some have posted here) who would think less of people if they do not wear a suit and consequently they will not respect that persons viewpoint. It is the shallowness and snobbery of it that is the embarrassing thing, not the fact that someone in the Dail is not wearing a suit.

Doublin

Anyone have a link to the speeches today? Missed them.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Jimmy Garlic

This thread just goes to show that some peoples priorities are twisted. Those who obsess about how others dress and have a warped sense of who deserves respect based on how they appear are usually shallow and contemptible individuals. They couldn't care less about important attributes as long as others fit into the little box of how they deem they should appear. Superficial, shallow people really annoy me and sadly this country is full of them.

Einhard

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

This thread just goes to show that some peoples priorities are twisted. Those who obsess about how others dress and have a warped sense of who deserves respect based on how they appear are usually shallow and contemptible individuals. They couldn't care less about important attributes as long as others fit into the little box of how they deem they should appear. Superficial, shallow people really annoy me and sadly this country is full of them.

Jesus, the world really is black and white where you live eh?

Fittle

It matters not what fianna fail and bertie and charlie et al, wore in the Dail.

On the first day in a new job, one should dress appropriately for your position. On the first day of any job I have ever had the pleasure to start, I have always worn a suit (I'm female and work in an office environment). It is respect for your co-workers and for your environment.

On the second day, when you discover that the staff might dress more casually, it's obviously more appropriate that you would dress more casually yourself.

Pink and denim shirts?

There is not a hope that Obama or Cameron would accept them in their Governments. Our politicians will be looked upon as a bunch of gobsh1tes. Is it any wonder how the 'Oirish' are portrayed in the media, outside of Ireland:rolleyes:

Valmont

I'm not sure if I'm laughing at this thread out of frustration or genuine amusement- but that picture of Pink shirt man is classic. He probably did it for a dare.

Biggins

Permabear wrote: »

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Your putting across (wrongly) that we are inferring that just because someone is wearing a suit, means they are seen by all here that they are ALL suspect - NO ONE has said that, if they have please point out who - A few have said that a few with suits are suspect (note again: NOT ALL).

Do you not see the irony and double standards that you are saying/inferring we are calling all those with suits bad - yet you who is giving out about those without suits, must be all showing disrespect and badness for being without one!

Pot calling the kettle black or double standards? Who can really take this logic seriously?

There is not a hope that Obama or Cameron would accept them in their Governments. Our politicians will be looked upon as a bunch of gobsh1tes. Is it any wonder how the 'Oirish' are portrayed in the media, outside of Ireland

...And thank god for that! Frankly I wouldn't want any of their lot in our Dail either.
It would mean war mongering, invasions, allowing giving guns to kids, allowing the large sales of guns, no medical health care system, even worse political lobbying involving huge sums of money.
No thanks. You can keep your USA style comparisons - I'll keep my t-shirted representatives and have them more possibly honest, accountable and closer to the public who's actual image they actually (the cheek of them!) reflect!