Are you wearing an Easter Lily this year?

Mongarra

I have never worn one and will not change this year. Many of the emblems sold are a fundraiser for Sinn Féin and this is anathema to me.

Also I feel the commemoration has been hijacked by extreme republicans.

sensibleken

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

It depends who you buy one off. I believe most give the money to an association which takes care of patriots graves.

Some patriots. The National graves association do not look after graves of people who were on the pro-treaty side of the civil war.

Morlar

http://www.nga.ie/history.php

A Brief History Of The National Graves Association
After the rising of 1867, a Memorial Committee was formed in Dublin comprising mainly of Fenians, i.e. James Stritch and surviving members of the rising. They had a number of rules governing the Association, the first being "The Association shall observe a strictly neutral attitude with regard to present day party differences", others being "No speech shall be made at any meeting introducing differences among nationalists" and "Graves of Deceased Patriots should be cared for". Some years later, the organisation became known as The Monuments Committee (of the Young Ireland Society), and later The Graves and Monuments Committee. Under this title many of the best known memorials of the NGA were commissioned, i.e. The Fenian Maid of Erin Memorial, The Stowell Bros., The Amnesty Nolan, The Tallaght Martyrs etc

This Committee was to follow in the footsteps of such patriots as Anne Devlin and her friends who, in 1798, in the dead of night, collected the remains of excecuted or murdered members of the United Irishmen from hedgerows and buried them. In 1898 the "98 Memorial Comittee's" main function was to erect memorials and mark the burial places of executed members of the United Irishmen.

In 1926 the Committee became known as Cumann Uaigheann na Laochra Gael or the National Graves Association, the name which it has retained up to the present day. The continuity link between the original organisation and the NGA in its present form comprises the Fenians, J.W O'Beirne and James Stritch who took part in the rescue of Col. Kelly and Captain Deasy at Manchester in 1867 and who remained on the committee of the NGA until their deaths.

In 1992 the Association decided to form a Private Limited Company registered world-wide to prevent the name being used as a flag of convenience by any political group. In order to maintain the voluntary ethos of the work, a special clause was inserted in the Articles of Association -


"No member of the company shall be appointed to any salaried office, or paid fees and no remuneration of benefit in kind shall be given to any member for work done on behalf of the Association."

The objectives of the Association have always been:

* To restore, where necessary, and maintain fittingly the graves and memorials of our patriot dead of every generation.
* To commemorate those who died in the cause of Irish Freedom.
* To compile a record of such graves and memorials.

The Association is not in receipt of, nor have they ever applied for, state funding of any kind. They depend entirely on voluntary donations from nationally minded people, at home and abroad, and on annual subscriptions from Associate members.

The NGA have erected, or accepted to be placed in their care, in excess of 500 Memorials and Wayside Shrines in the 32 counties of Ireland. The best known of their Memorials, to name but a few, are to Wolfe Tone at Bodenstown, Co. Kildare, Bart Teeling, Co. Sligo, Roddy McCorley, Toomebridge, Co. Antrim, The Croppy Boy in Tralee, Thomas Traynor, Tullow, Co. Carlow and to Páid O Donaghue, Curraha, Co. Meath.

In 1932 they commenced tours of Historic Graves in Glasnevin Cemetery free of charge. These tours are held every Sunday from June to September. In 1934 tours of Kilmainham Jail were conducted by the NGA. In 1938 with the help of Helena Moloney, Maude Gonne McBride and others, they succeeded in preventing the proposed demolition of Kilmainham Jail by the Government of the day. It was later restored by voluntary workers including members of the Association. Many well known names were listed among the Associate membership, Mrs. C. Brugha, Nora Connolly (daughter of James Connolly), the opera singer Margaret Burke-Sheridan, the painter Jack B. Yeats, Nobel peace prize winner Sean McBride, Erskine Childers, Sean T. O'Kelly, Eamonn de Valera, Eileen Davitt (daughter of Michael Davitt), Nurse Elizabeth O'Farrell, Brian O'Higgins, Fr. Ml. O'Flanagan, Count Plunkett and Mrs. Kathleen Clarke (widow of the executed 1916 leader) who chaired the first meetings of 1926, to name a few.
The Association was responsible for the repatriation of the remains of Vols. Dunne and O'Sullivan and Vols. Barnes and McCormack from English prison graves to republican plots in Ireland, also Frank Ryan from East Germany, the Connaught Rangers from India and the reburials of the volunteers executed in Mountjoy and Portlaoise during the period 1940-46.


At the height of the Tan War (War for Independence) the British executed 10 volunteers in Mountjoy Prison, between 1920-21. As was their custom, the bodies were buried in unmarked and unhallowed ground within the confines of the prison walls. In 1923 the relatives of the volunteers requested the remains of their loved ones only to be told by the Free State government that it would stir up trouble for the authorities. The National Graves Association joined in the campaign in the late 1920s to give these men a decent burial. It was with some sense of victory that the Association marked the burial plot within the prison in 1934. Our Committee attended this plot every year up to the late eighties when we realised the authorities were content to allow us to do just that. The National Graves Association never forgot its duty towards these volunteers or indeed towards their relatives. Successive Secretaries campaigned vigorously and our late Secretary, Martesa Kearney (RIP) badgered successive Irish governments and campaigned in both national and international press to have these volunteers interred in hallowed ground with the honour and decency deserved by any volunteer who made the ultimate sacrifice. In 1996 the National Graves Association erected an imposing Celtic Cross in Glasnevin Cemetery dedicated to the forgotten ten. Finally, on October 14th 2001, the campaign culminated in the volunteers being re-interred in Glasnevin Cemetery. Kevin Barry, Patrick Moran, Frank Flood, Thomas Whelan, Thomas Traynor, Patrick Doyle, Thomas Bryan, Bernard Ryan and Edward Foley were buried in Glasnevin Cemetery while Patrick Maher was reinterred in Ballylanders, Co. Limerick. These volunteers were never forgotten by the National Graves Association and indeed will be honoured and remembered by our members when we commemorate the Forgotten Ten.
In 1991, the Association commenced full day and weekend coach tours. The purpose of the tours was to visit thegraves of patriots who might otherwise be forgotten and also as a historic outing for members. As tours are non-profit making, they are not available for the general public. The cost of associate membership is €12 annually (minimum). Associate members are encouraged to have an input into the Association by helping to keep clean and tidy the graves of known patriots in their area, by informing the committee of any memorial in need of repair, by attending commemorations and assisting one of the guides in the Glasnevin tours when large numbers have requested special tours. All members are expected to show the greatest respect for all graves irrespective of the persons interred therein.(The photo shows members of the National Graves Association in front of Cork City Jail.)

The Association has never deviated from its guiding principle "Only a 32 County Irish Republic represents the true aspiration of those who gave their lives for Irish freedom".
grave

Members of the governing body are not allowed by the rules to be a member of any political party. This rule does not apply to associates. The registered office and only correspondence address is National Graves Association, Box No. 7105, 74 Dame Street, Dublin 2. There are no branch committees, there are no County branches, i.e. Belfast National Graves Association, Tyrone National Graves Association. If you are in any doubt, please contact the above address or telephone 087-2282033.


The National Graves Association is an autonomous body, with no affiliation to any political party, organisation or group.

PatsytheNazi

Einhard wrote: »

Two reasons for not wearing one:

First, I think the aactions of the IRA since the War of Independence, and especially during the Troubles, has tarnished the Republican name. I don't wish to be associated, even erronerously, with those I consider to be murderers and terrorists.

CDfm wrote: »

OK - I have a problem with this definition.

My grandfather fought in the War of Independence and 1916 and the organisation in the troubles was not the same.

The IRA off that time morphed into the Irish Army etc and the members went back to their ordinary lives. Essentially it was disbanded.

Sinn Fein split into FF & what became FG.

Todays Sinn Fein really do not have a right to the name -yet they use it like a brand name.

It implies succession from other organisations which is not the case.

The actions of the 'nice' IRA - Collins organising Vinne Byrne and co. to shot policemen in the back, suspected British agents shot in their beds, planting a land mine on the road in Tipperary to blow up a passing British lorry and shooting the wounded left. Kicking in a cottage door and shooting alleged informers in front of their family etc

God, those in the Bogside, the Falls and those of us down here who supported them, should be ashamed of themselves for taking up arms in 1969- against the RUC, Paras, loyalists, orange mobs etc despite decades of unionist thuggery and gross discrimination, as the political parties down in the 'Free' State for decades made political capital with patriotic speeches of the struggle of our forefathers etc

We should have been be 'real' republicans like yourselves and stood "idly by" :rolleyes:

CDfm

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

We should have been be 'real' republicans like yourselves and stood "idly by" :rolleyes:

Hey Patsy - I wasn't there and even if I had been would have been in my pram.

I was old enough to be aware of the Herema kidnapping, bank robberies, Ben Dunne kidnapping, Senator Billy Fox assasination, Dominic McGlinchey,Mountbatton assasination, and a host of other things that happened in the south.

Now I am not condemning or condoning what happened in the North-what I am saying they dont represent me.

On matters such as economics I strongly disagree with their world view.

PatsytheNazi

CDfm wrote: »

Hey Patsy - I wasn't there and even if I had been would have been in my pram.

I was old enough to be aware of the Herema kidnapping, bank robberies, Ben Dunne kidnapping, Senator Billy Fox assasination, Dominic McGlinchey,Mountbatton assasination, and a host of other things that happened in the south.

Now I am not condemning or condoning what happened in the North-what I am saying they dont represent me.

On matters such as economics I strongly disagree with their world view.

Ok fair enough CDfm, your a reasonable fellow, I am a bit sharp at times.

(BTW, INLA leader Dominic McGlinchey was one of the greatest, up there with Sean Tracey, Liam Lynch etc His life was sadly typical of many a young man in the six counties at the time. Walking home from a anti internmnet demo, a gang of Brits in a jeep jumped out, beat him senselessly on the street and threw him into Long Kesh for several months. How on earth 'Irish' people can condemn young men like McGlinchey as 'terrorists' while ignoring the terrorism that forced young men like him to turn to the gun is totally beyond me. I hope I'm not been sarcastic, I'm just been honest)

CDfm

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ok fair enough CDfm, your a reasonable fellow, I am a bit sharp at times.

Well Patsy - you and I are probably what our grandfathers hoped for

brianthebard

Mongarra wrote: »

I have never worn one and will not change this year. Many of the emblems sold are a fundraiser for Sinn Féin and this is anathema to me.

Also I feel the commemoration has been hijacked by extreme republicans.

What was the commemoration about before that?

Mongarra

The reason for the commemoration, remembering those who died at various time, but especially at Easter 1916, has not changed. What I am saying, perhaps not very well, is that the memory of those has been tarnished somewhat by the slant being put on it by extreme republicans - Sinn Féin, IRA, Provisional IRA - who appear to think that they are the only legitimate bearers of the torch, whereas there are many, my family included, who would, and did, gladly attend commemorative occasions - remember when there used to be a parade in Dublin, and maybe other places - at Easter. This was stopped when it became a focus for some republicans with extreme views.

brianthebard

Mongarra wrote: »

This was stopped when it became a focus for some republicans with extreme views.

Its a commemoration of republicans who held extremist views, that's just a fact of history. Fair enough you don't support the ira campaign in the north for whatever reasons but don't act like their extreme views differ fundamentally from the extreme views of 1916.

PatsytheNazi

One of the things I notice is how some are saying that they don't commerate 1916 etc because of Republicans and 'extremism' etc

Is making speeches for decades about a United Ireland - while doing nothing about it, 'extremism' of the most hypocritical kind ? And then denouncing the those who defended themselves when a whole sale onslaught was made on the nationalists in August 1969, the Falls Road curfew, Bloody Sunday etc in responce to them just asking for civil rights not seen as "extreme" corruption and selfishness ? Indeed is bankrupting the state through corruption, cronyism and incompetence not another form of rotten 'extremism' ?

Seanchai

Mongarra wrote: »

The reason for the commemoration, remembering those who died at various time, but especially at Easter 1916, has not changed. What I am saying, perhaps not very well, is that the memory of those has been tarnished somewhat by the slant being put on it by extreme republicans - Sinn Féin, IRA, Provisional IRA - who appear to think that they are the only legitimate bearers of the torch, whereas there are many, my family included, who would, and did, gladly attend commemorative occasions - remember when there used to be a parade in Dublin, and maybe other places - at Easter. This was stopped when it became a focus for some republicans with extreme views.

So, an "extreme republican" is somebody who believes that Ireland has a right to be ruled by the Irish and finally free from British interference? I see.

Meanwhile, the British nationalist poppy business honours those who died fighting for British rule over indigenous populations across the globe, from the concentration camps of South Africa to the streets of Derry and Cork. And that poppy-wearing rabble are not "extreme" but the Irish who want this tiny country, and this tiny country alone, free from British rule are "extreme". Jesus, and his entire family, wept.

Seanchai

brianthebard wrote: »

Its a commemoration of republicans who held extremist views, that's just a fact of history. Fair enough you don't support the ira campaign in the north for whatever reasons but don't act like their extreme views differ fundamentally from the extreme views of 1916.

It's not a "fact of history", unless the history in question was written by the likes of Rudyard Kipling, Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher.

The "extreme" view of Irish history is the one which denies the Irish people the right to rule their own country free from British occupation. It's the same fanatical British colonial mindset which held native people after native people across the world under foot century after century claiming to "civilise" them and other raiméis, while economically, culturally and politically raping them in the name of that supposedly "helpful" British culture. And it is that process of murder, rape and destruction which those British nationalist poppy wearers glorify. It is resistance to that in this country which wearers of the Easter Lily commemorate.

brianthebard

Seanchai wrote: »

It's not a "fact of history", unless the history in question was written by the likes of Rudyard Kipling, Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher.

Ok maybe you should back up there and explain why the 1916 rebels are not extremist republicans but the modern ira is. Look I absolutely accept that people will not support the ira in the north, but to say that the 1916 commemoration has been hijacked by extreme republicanism is missing the point in an incredible way.

CDfm

I am within two minds.

The War of Independence and Civil War affected both sides of my parents families. Casualties and emigration. Now the emigration side -everyone had.

The casualty list on one side is very extensive plus one in the Somme. The other grandfather saw comrades go out of control.

So when I see things written - I stop & think.

It is like celebrating Xmas when a relative died at Xmas - bittersweet.

I guess I have gotten that conflicted view.

Take Sean Lemass whose brother Noel got killed up the Dublin Mountains after the civil war ended. I imagine he felt the same.

So there are lots of reasons people did not celebrate.

Einhard

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

God, those in the Bogside, the Falls and those of us down here who supported them, should be ashamed of themselves for taking up arms in 1969- against the RUC, Paras, loyalists, orange mobs etc despite decades of unionist thuggery and gross discrimination, as the political parties down in the 'Free' State for decades made political capital with patriotic speeches of the struggle of our forefathers etc

No, they should be ashamed of themselves for murdering innocent civilians. Not sure how Unionist thuggery and discrimination justifies the plating of bombs in pubs and on busy shopping streets. Maybe though, I'm too sensitive for the kind of things that you obviously believe constitutes a true Republican...

We should have been be 'real' republicans like yourselves and stood "idly by" :rolleyes:

Well considering I was 16 at the time of the GFA, I'm not quite sure what I could have achieved in the 60s before I was even born. Hard to "stand idly by" when one isn't even a tinkle in one's mothers' eye!

However, I'd like to think I would have joined with the protestors in the march and demanded equality of treatment in the North. I wouldn't though have engaged in activities which all too often resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians, including children. You can use that idiotic rolling eyes icon all you like, it won't make me think that the pre-meditated murder and maiming of civilians is justified.

Adrian009

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ok fair enough CDfm, your a reasonable fellow, I am a bit sharp at times.

(BTW, INLA leader Dominic McGlinchey was one of the greatest, up there with Sean Tracey, Liam Lynch etc His life was sadly typical of many a young man in the six counties at the time. Walking home from a anti internmnet demo, a gang of Brits in a jeep jumped out, beat him senselessly on the street and threw him into Long Kesh for several months. How on earth 'Irish' people can condemn young men like McGlinchey as 'terrorists' while ignoring the terrorism that forced young men like him to turn to the gun is totally beyond me. I hope I'm not been sarcastic, I'm just been honest)

I know where you're coming from, Patsy, but to me joining or supporting the IRA during the Troubles would have just made a bad situation worse.

Defending your people is one thing - I'm no pacifist - but blowing up pubs, geriatics and their grandchildren, Remembrence Day parades, was wrong then and is wrong now.

I've seen for myself what its like to be outnumbered and left to the wolves, but that in no way excuses either of us then doing THE EXACT SAME THING. An eye for a eye leaves both of us blind.