Leo Varadkar gets Transport

donkey balls

So where did all this EU money for roads go to? Dempsey stated that it was not viable to toll the M9 due to the amount of people using it,What about all those signs with transport 21 on them with the EU logo;).

DWCommuter

If memory serves me correctly, the N2 was going to be a tolled motorway, hence its motorway design and speed limit. I remember a Q & A show where Dempsey was torn asunder about it and he wasn't even the MOT at the time.

veryangryman

mgmt wrote: »

You cannot toll a road that received EU funding.

Course you can *cough Watergrasshill bypass cough *

spacetweek

mgmt wrote: »

You cannot toll a road that received EU funding.

Unlikely to be correct, every motorway in Ireland received EU funding to my knowledge. Well, certainly the ones that lie on a Euroroute would have (that's M1, M11, M7, M8 and N25).

runway16

Tremelo wrote: »

Please don't insinuate that that's my angle. The case for the N28 is enormous on a national basis, with a likely return of tens of billions of euro. The fact that Coveney is from Carrigaline simply means he's all the more aware of this and better positioned to deliver it, in addition to other much needed Cork infrastructure that would be of unquestionable national benefit. It's not about the parish pump at all. Quite the opposite.

Also, Coveney actually travels a lot. I happen to think that a transport minister should travel a lot. I'm not sure how often Varadkar leaves the capital, which is where he was born, where he studied, and where he works. It's a little point perhaps, but I could well imagine that Coveney would have a greater appreciation of what needs doing around the country. Again, just a hunch. We'll wait and see.

Coveney didnt even know that the NRA was only responsible for National roads, according to a transcript of an exchange between Fred Barry and a Dail commitee.

Hardly an optimum choice... but, yes, I agree with you re the N28.

robd

lods wrote: »

You can be pro public transport and against Metro North as it stands. He seems a highly intelligent politician and will make up his own mind .

Indeed. You can be pro public transport and simply have no money which I suspect will be the case.

Reading between the lines of the program for government, I can't see any new transport projects progressing over the term of this government. The hole in finances is too big and they've made a commitment not to cut headline social welfare rates. Reform of the HSE isn't going to safe money in the short term. A redundancy program is going to cost money in the sort term. Thus capital expenditure has to suffer, drastically.

spacetweek

robd wrote: »

Reading between the lines of the program for government, I can't see any new transport projects progressing over the term of this government.

It's the opposite really, they've shown that everything is on the table and MN/DU are far more likely to proceed now than before.

Amtmann

I am preparing to eat humble pie.

NEW DELHI: State-owned carrier Air India plans to take a call soon on making Dublin airport in the Irish capital its new hub, after pulling out of Frankfurt in Germany. The talks between the Indian and Irish governments are at an advanced stage in this regard.

The Irish minister met the Indian civil aviation minister Vayalar Ravi on Wednesday to discuss the issue.

"In many ways the Indian government has shown interest in our airport and seems to be ready to go with it," the Irish minister for transport, tourism and sport Leo Varadkar said.

Air India had initially shortlisted seven European airports to make one of them its new hub, in order to cut costs and facilitate movement of traffic to the US and other parts of Europe in a smoother way.

"Dublin is one of the final two airports that Air India has zeroed in on and will shortly take a call on it," Varadkar, the first Indian origin person to be part of the Irish government, added.

According to Irish government officials, Dublin is among the bottom three airports in Europe in terms of cost. In addition, it will be able to provide a lot of operational benefits to Air India as it would give clearances to traffic headed towards the US in Dublin itself. This would save time for passengers when they land in the US. AI had started hub operations through Frankfurt in March 2009 and ceased them in Octoberlast year after making Delhi's Terminal 3 its new hub to save costs. The decision to drop the Frankfurt hub had been taken as part of a revamp of international operations, wherein the focus shifted to non-stop long-haul flights.

Consequently, the New Delhi-Frankfurt-Toronto connection became Amritsar-Delhi-London-Toronto; Delhi-Frankfurt-Newark became direct between Delhi and Newark.

The earlier practice of routing passengers from Ahmedabad, Delhi and Mumbai and from Chicago, Toronto and Newark to Frankfurt was also discontinued. Instead, Air India started direct Delhi-Chicago and Delhi-Toronto flights last year, when it commenced operations from the T3.

According to Irish government officials , using Dublin airport as a hub would make Transatlantic operations for Air India more profitable and much more passengers can be picked up en-route.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-may-consider-dublin-airport-as-its-new-hub/articleshow/7732192.cms

dowlingm

Question is - what equipment does AI have that can get off 10/28 and go 7100km?

donkey balls

dowlingm wrote: »

Question is - what equipment does AI have that can get off 10/28 and go 7100km?

More than likely B744/B777ER the Rwy at Dub can cope with both including parking stands the A380 would be another kettle of fish.

L1011

They don't have A380s if the Wiki is to be believed.

dowlingm

donkey balls wrote: »

More than likely B744/B777ER the Rwy at Dub can cope with both including parking stands the A380 would be another kettle of fish.

Is there enough runway though? One of the big failures of the Celtic Tiger was not getting the parallel, longer 10/28 done.

Sponge Bob

there would be enough runway westbound, Delhi - NYC say as the longer leg would be inbound to Dublin. I'd say AI might use Frankfurt eastbound .

ardmacha

there would be enough runway westbound, Delhi - NYC say as the longer leg would be inbound to Dublin. I'd say AI might use Frankfurt eastbound .

But surely the advantage of using DUB is the possibility of picking up some passengers or freight en route? This wouldn't work well if they only stop one way. If all AI want is US immigration and a long runway then SNN would do the trick.

runway16

There will be no problem with the runway for Air India at Dublin heading to the US and Canada. The problem will be on the return to India, when the 777 would be payload restricted.

An extension of 500m (but preferably 1000m) would sort the issue and wouldnt take all that long as it is considered "permitted development" under planning law, something similar to adding a conservatory to your home!

The land is available, it would not overly disrupt operations, and wouldnt cost the earth either... and it needs to be done anyway. We could be waiting many years for the parallel runway to be built.

DUB is also perfectly capable of handling the A380 - it uses even less runway typically than the 747 (again, depending on what route,, it would be payload restricted) but the airfield can handle it no problem. A couple of the newer stands at T2 could also accomodate it, but the facility to board / disembark passengers at both levels of the aircraft is not present, and so this would take considerably longer.

But the airfield can handle it - some people seem to think that DUB is somehow lacking in this area - it is not, just that the runway length limits what can be lifted from it.

Sponge Bob

runway16 wrote: »

There will be no problem with the runway for Air India at Dublin heading to the US and Canada. The problem will be on the return to India, when the 777 would be payload restricted. .

Isn't that what I already said ??

The existing runway in Dublin could easily be lengthened to near 3000m but the Nobber Road would possibly need to be put in a tunnel to take it past 3000m ....not a serious challenge except that Aer Rianta wants a second 3100m runway where they have space for it further north and not an extension.

If the world IS warming up as they say the runway may need to be a tad longer again for Ultra Heavy takeoffs/aborts like the A380 and 747-8 freighter variants coming down the line...say 3500m.

An extension would be the best idea for the next 10-15 years in my opinion, best not a mickey mouse one

runway16

If I am basically backing up what you just said, what exactly is the problem? Am I not allowed to state my view - especially given I work in the business and can offer an inside viewpoint?

Anyhoo, back to the runway: There is also significant space to extend the runway at the other end, such that 3500m would be achievable.

Even the Nobber road could just be diverted to go around the end of the lengthened runway - thats exactly what the cheap bastards did when they built the runway in the first place ;-)

DAA own all the land needed to do this, it will simply mean replacing the approach lighting into adjacent fields, and the road issue mentioned above.

The planned new runway looks like it will be 3660m now and not the 3100m that was originally proposed, but who knows how long we will be waiting for it.

The 747-8 freighter is already in service now, and would not present any more of an issue than current 747's. Even the A380 has better take off performance than the 747, so there are really no specific requirements for those aircraft types over and above what a 777-300 needs for example. Runway Width is recommened at 60m for an A380, but it has no issue operating on 45m wide runways (the standard width) and has now been certified for such. 10/28 at DUB is 45m wide, but has Shoulders at Either side of 7.5m, so no problems there.

AI wont split the operation between Dublin and Frankfurt either - the plan is for a "Scissor Hub" rather than a technical stop. The idea is that, say 3 flights would arrive from Delhi, Mumbai and Amritsar, and 3 would then depart to New York, Chicago and Toronto, meaning that passengers from each of the 3 Indian cities could connect to each of the 3 US/Canadian cities. Obviously to achieve that, both Eastbound and Westbound Aircraft need to land at the same place and same time frame.

Sponge Bob

runway16 wrote: »

The planned new runway looks like it will be 3660m now and not the 3100m that was originally proposed, but who knows how long we will be waiting for it.

That new distance seems about the right length for future purposes. Thanks Runway. Mind you a lot more people live in Nobber than was the case 30 years ago

In all fairness to Aer Rianta they could not have predicted the celtic tiger/rise of longhaul to asia in the mid 1980s when they planned the current DA runway at 2800m.

davebuck

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That new distance seems about the right length for future purposes. Thanks Runway. Mind you a lot more people live in Nobber than was the case 30 years ago

In all fairness to Aer Rianta they could not have predicted the celtic tiger/rise of longhaul to asia in the mid 1980s when they planned the current DA runway at 2800m.

The runway at Dublin was kept short by the government to protect the Shannon stopover,Aer Rianta wanted to build a longer runway at Dublin but were prevented.

runway16

davebuck wrote: »

The runway at Dublin was kept short by the government to protect the Shannon stopover,Aer Rianta wanted to build a longer runway at Dublin but were prevented.

Entirely correct. It wasnt a matter of the airport not foreseeing it as such (Aer Rianta were actually an incredibly forward thinking company in their day), but a matter of them being hamstrung by inane parish pump politics....:mad:

A number of sound decisions were taken by Aer Rianta to future proof the airport, including buying up land in the area, preventing certain development in order to ensure a noise problem didnt occur, provision of space for an underground station in Terminal 1 etc etc.

The airports problems really began when a certain carrier started getting agressive, and was demanding the lowest costs. It was duly given to them, but at the price of lack of investment in the airport.

L1011

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Mind you a lot more people live in Nobber than was the case 30 years ago

Is there another Nobber than the one I'm thinking of, which is practically in Cavan and not likely to be driven on the road diverted around the runway?

Tech3

His expenses for the trip to India were posted up on Transport.ie today

Programme

Cost of the trip on excel

Very transparent so far 9,000 for two over to India for the week

hopefully he gets up to speed fast on his brief.

runway16

MYOB wrote: »

Is there another Nobber than the one I'm thinking of, which is practically in Cavan and not likely to be driven on the road diverted around the runway?

Maybe we are getting confused with the Naul Road? Thats what I had considered that road at the end of Runway 28 to be (I think it is signposted as the Naul Road anyway)

Sponge Bob

Naul it is , sorry.

murphaph

runway16 wrote: »

the plan is for a "Scissor Hub" rather than a technical stop. The idea is that, say 3 flights would arrive from Delhi, Mumbai and Amritsar, and 3 would then depart to New York, Chicago and Toronto, meaning that passengers from each of the 3 Indian cities could connect to each of the 3 US/Canadian cities. Obviously to achieve that, both Eastbound and Westbound Aircraft need to land at the same place and same time frame.

This is something that Dublin Airport would be ideal for, not just for AI but larger European carriers too. With codesharing possibilities you could have continental European passengers switching airline at Dublin in this fashion. It makes geographic sense for the most westerly island to have this function, especially as we have US INS at DUB. Like the old flying boat days eh?!

Irish and Proud

Tech3 wrote: »

His expenses for the trip to India were posted up on Transport.ie today

Programme

Cost of the trip on excel

Very transparent so far 9,000 for two over to India for the week

hopefully he gets up to speed fast on his brief.

Good on him, that's the way it should be for all ministerial trips abroad. I also like the way in which he has documented what he has being doing on that trip - also the way it should be!

Hope it stays that way!

donkey balls

While I dont agree with some of the things that Leo mouths off about the way the expenses have been published with a detail break down I welcome that.
As for Dub getting AI it would be great for business for DUB airport ground handling companies/catering&cargo operations,Cargo normally destined for India normally goes by road to the UK either to MAN or LHR any additional airlines wanting to land here should be grabbed as the the revenue of these flights trickle down through the economy.
I used to work in the industry and still have friends that do one flies for Ryanair and he told me that when they pulled most of their aircraft out of Frankfurt Hahn the airport is like a ghost town with shops that used to be busy closing down and car parks that had over flows closed.

spacetweek

Tech3 wrote: »

hopefully he gets up to speed fast on his brief.

I hope he doesn't wait for the new NDP to be finalised before signing off on anything. No need since the Metro and big road projects for this year are essential and we've already had endless discussion and CBAs for them. Any further analysis would simply confirm what we already know.

runway16

murphaph wrote: »

This is something that Dublin Airport would be ideal for, not just for AI but larger European carriers too. With codesharing possibilities you could have continental European passengers switching airline at Dublin in this fashion. It makes geographic sense for the most westerly island to have this function, especially as we have US INS at DUB. Like the old flying boat days eh?!

It already goes on to a fairly big degree at DUB, but of course has room for growth. 34% of passengers on Aerlingus Long Haul flights now transfer at Dublin onto European services.

Delta transfers a number of passengers to Air France at DUB. (Air France now places its code on Delta's flights to New York and Atlanta, so its passengers have another option to get to Paris from the US - via Dublin.

American Airlines also transfers passengers onto Etihad flights to Abu Dhabi.

The DAA has an incentive scheme in place to encourage this, and it will bear fruit over the medium term I think.

Even though these passengers dont leave the airport, it is still very good for Ireland Inc as transfer passengers can ensure the viability of long haul routes that otherwise not be sustainable if they were relying on just the Irish market.

runway16

donkey balls wrote: »

While I dont agree with some of the things that Leo mouths off about the way the expenses have been published with a detail break down I welcome that.
As for Dub getting AI it would be great for business for DUB airport ground handling companies/catering&cargo operations,Cargo normally destined for India normally goes by road to the UK either to MAN or LHR any additional airlines wanting to land here should be grabbed as the the revenue of these flights trickle down through the economy.
I used to work in the industry and still have friends that do one flies for Ryanair and he told me that when they pulled most of their aircraft out of Frankfurt Hahn the airport is like a ghost town with shops that used to be busy closing down and car parks that had over flows closed.

You dont have to go as far as Frankfurt Hahn to see that: look at Shannon that has been decimated by Ryanair's part withdrawal. At Dublin, most of the traffic decline has been due to FR's cuts as well. Other Carriers have not cut back nearly as much as Ryanair.