That Religion Thing?

Jackobyte

What are your thoughts on religion? With today being Ash Wednesday and all, I said I'd ask.

Officially I'm Catholic. Been through the whole she-bang; baptism, communion, confirmation, etc. Will probably have a Catholic wedding as well for my parents' sake.

But other than that, I couldn't care less. I don't believe in a god who created us and the world around us. I don't believe anything happens after death. I don't think we will be punished for sins, etc. Today I didn't even bother going to the mass organised by my school during school time for Ash Wednesday. I didn't see the point when I didn't believe in any of the stuff that it stands for. Instead I used the time to be productive and got work on a project done.

In relation to other people's religion, I think they are naive for believing in it but I wouldn't try to change them or push atheism on them.

So what's your stance on religion?


EDIT: Does a mod want to add a poll with the main religions? I forgot one.

Screaminmidget

Good thread, kudos.

I'm a raised catholic (Baptised, communion. confirmed), still Forced to go to mass, Unfortunatly Ive stopped believing in the whole Jesus thing. I just can't make myself believe. So, I suppose I could be an atheist I do believe in karma, things going in circles, bad things coming back to bite you in the ass etc. It's the only thing that kinda makes any sense in my mind. Ironic thing is that I'm a godfather, so I dunno if ethically or morally or whatever if I'm the best person for that role.....

Carl Sagan

I was born a catholic and did all the usual crap. I didn't really want to make my confirmation or anything, but was told I had to. I used www.countmeout.ie to get the information about defecting from the church, and sent a signed letter to the right authorities to make it happen, but they never honoured it. After checking back with countmeout.ie, I found out that they're not letting anyone leave the church.

from Countmeout.ie wrote:

In April of this year, the Catholic Church modified the Code of Canon Law to remove all references to the act of formal defection, the process used by those who wish to formally renounce their membership of the Church.

Since then, the Catholic Church in Ireland has been reflecting on the implications of this change for those who wish to leave the Catholic Church. Despite our requests for clarification, the Church have yet to reach a firm position on how or whether they will continue to accept requests for the annotation of the baptismal register.

In recent weeks we have been contacted by an increasing number of people whose defections have not been processed, due to the limbo created by this canon law amendment.

Back then I just didn't want to be another person officially counted as catholic, when I didn't really believe any of that stuff. Now I don't like the catholic church any more.

Jackobyte

Screaminmidget wrote: »

Good thread, kudos.

I'm a raised catholic (Baptised, communion. confirmed), still Forced to go to mass Unfortunatly, Ive stopped believing in the whole Jesus thing. I just can't make myself believe. So, I suppose I could be an atheist I do believe in karma, things going in circles, bad things coming back to bite you in the ass etc. It's the only thing that kinda makes any sense in my mind. Ironic thing is that I'm a godfather, so I dunno if ethically or morally or whatever if I'm the best person for that role.....

I'd say there are a lot of people in similar circumstances. Brought up through religion but not religious themselves.

I was just wondering because in my school of 850, nearly everyone was at mass. There were a few Mormons who didn't go but basically everyone else went and received ashes even though I know a fair few in my class alone are atheist (from discussion in religion class).

Jackobyte

Carl Sagan wrote: »

I was born a catholic and did all the usual crap. I didn't really want to make my confirmation or anything, but was told I had to. I used www.countmeout.ie to get the information about defecting from the church, and sent a signed letter to the right authorities to make it happen, but they never honoured it. After checking back with countmeout.ie, I found out that they're not letting anyone leave the church.



Back then I just didn't want to be another person officially counted as catholic, when I didn't really believe any of that stuff. Now I don't like the catholic church any more.

Does that prevent you from a Catholic wedding now so? I doubt I'd ever bother leaving the Church. I don't consider myself part of it anyway so I'm not bothered about the formalities of leaving.

Carl Sagan

Jackobyte wrote: »

I'd say there are a lot of people in similar circumstances. Brought up through religion but not religious themselves.

I was just wondering because in my school of 850, nearly everyone was at mass. There were a few Mormons who didn't go but basically everyone else went and received ashes even though I know a fair few in my class alone are atheist (from discussion in religion class).

Yeah I remember that kind of being forced on us. We were supposed to go to a mass for two hours or something. It was only by 5th and 6th year that I didn't care about missing classes, and would rather have not gone; I was basically given the equivalent of detention for that time and told to write out pages before they got back.

Jako8

I'd be agnostic atheist myself. I mean at this time in my life I don't care about religion enough to be partaking in heated conversations or anything like that. If someone wanted me to be part of some ceremony that was religious I certainly wouldn't complain. I don't really see a problem with most religious beliefs as they are comforting for millions of people. I'd never push my belief on other people or look down on them for what they believe in.

I do hate the anti-homosexual agendas of a lot of religious establishments. As well as the division and hatred religion can cause which can lead to conflict. I'd also be of the opinion that religion and school should be separate. The church's hand is too prominent in Ireland and, despite the fact that most of Ireland is catholic, I'd like to see their role phased out. I mean the church practically control the schools and I really feel this should not be the case.

For the most part though I don't see religion as being terrible. People who I know who are strong believers are still good people and at the end of the day isn't that what the church try to promote? (Ignoring all the child abuse and what not)

Jackobyte

Carl Sagan wrote: »

Yeah I remember that kind of being forced on us. We were supposed to go to a mass for two hours or something. It was only by 5th and 6th year that I didn't care about missing classes, and would rather have not gone; I was basically given the equivalent of detention for that time and told to write out pages before they got back.

I'm pretty sure we were all meant to go but I was talking to a teacher when we were meant to be moving chairs and preparing for mass and it had started by the time we had finished and I definitely wasn't walking into the middle of the mass.

Carl Sagan

Jackobyte wrote: »

Does that prevent you from a Catholic wedding now so? I doubt I'd ever bother leaving the Church. I don't consider myself part of it anyway so I'm not bothered about the formalities of leaving.

It depends. Apparently I'm not allowed, but a lot of parishes differ and would allow it as long as one half is a Catholic. I don't plan on getting married in a church anyway, so it doesn't really bother me.

A Neurotic

Religion has become quite irrelevant in my life. I couldn't believe when I heard someone today bemoaning the fact that they couldn't go out because it's Ash Wednesday.

I respect people believing in and belonging to a religion, but it's silly little moral rules like that that just make the whole thing seem so ridiculous to me. Not wanting to cause offence, it just seemed so funny to me.

Jackobyte

A Neurotic wrote: »

Religion has become quite irrelevant in my life. I couldn't believe when I heard someone today bemoaning the fact that they couldn't go out because it's Ash Wednesday.

I respect people believing in and belonging to a religion, but it's silly little moral rules like that that just make the whole thing seem so ridiculous to me. Not wanting to cause offence, it just seemed so funny to me.

I was taking out a pepperoni pizza from the freezer for dinner tonight and was told I wasn't to eat meat by my mom. I had to have a (very delicious) cheese pizza instead but just the fact that you can't eat meat seems a pointless custom.

amacachi

Screaminmidget wrote: »

Good thread, kudos.

I'm a raised catholic (Baptised, communion. confirmed), still Forced to go to mass Unfortunatly, Ive stopped believing in the whole Jesus thing. I just can't make myself believe. So, I suppose I could be an atheist I do believe in karma, things going in circles, bad things coming back to bite you in the ass etc. It's the only thing that kinda makes any sense in my mind. Ironic thing is that I'm a godfather, so I dunno if ethically or morally or whatever if I'm the best person for that role.....

Why unfortunately? I like being allowed to get tattoos and eat shellfish. I may never do those things but I prefer it to be up to me.

Slow Show

I could go on for ages but I'm sure someone can put my views into far better words than I can so I'm just gonna echo what everyone else has said - I don't really care much for religion, I don't believe there's any higher power out there. To be honest, it all stopped for me after I discovered the truth about Santa Claus. Look at the similarities - someone we believe in without a shred of proof to make us try live our lives right. I suppose I wasn't a typical ten-year-old. :P

I still go to mass every Sunday because of my family, it's not worth the effort creating a stir by telling them how I really feel so I just go with it. I also haven't eaten one bit of meat today, which is a bit ridiculous but that's life, it ain't worth rocking the boat.

Oh and yeah, I don't have a problem with anyone believing in whatever they want to believe in, and church celebrations - graaaand.
Basically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=093MUTp0Z2c

(it's weird how I happened to be listening to that song while typing this)

Screaminmidget

amacachi wrote: »

Why unfortunately? I like being allowed to get tattoos and eat shellfish. I may never do those things but I prefer it to be up to me.

Poor typing on my part, The "unfortunatley" should be the other side of the smiley.

amacachi

Screaminmidget wrote: »

Poor typing on my part, The "unfortunatley" should be the other side of the smiley.

Good stuff, wasn't an attack, I just don't like seeing people sad when they've gotten free.

Screaminmidget

amacachi wrote: »

Good stuff, wasn't an attack, I just don't like seeing people sad when they've gotten free.

I'm not free yet
Its becoming very convinient that I have stuff on every sunday morning that prevents me from going

Cows Go µ

I'm actually quite religious, though I'm one of few people I know who actually are. I was raised protestant and still am. I wouldn't go to church but I really doubt god would care about that sort of thing. The way I see it, so long as I love him and be a good person, he's probably quite happy with me. I think my parents would be pretty much the same, I think they would be religious but not church goers. I never thought they forced it on me but I suppose I was dragged to church and went to church camps and stuff but that was just the done thing and it never really bothered me.

Its weird though, out of the people my age, the only religious ones I know are protestant, I can't think of any that would be catholic. But that could be the fact I'm doing maths and hang around physicists, they may be more inclined to believe what can be proved though I could be wrong. Though one lad spent ages trying to convince me of the fact that being religious is stupid and that I should "know better" as a mathematician.

KnifeWRENCH

Up until a few years ago, I did believe in God. Partly because I liked the idea of an afterlife, and partly just to annoy militant atheists. (Atheists = grand. Militant atheists = twats)

Now I'm an apatheist (apathetic agnostic; it's a real thing!) Basically, I don't know if there's a higher power or not. Nobody does. And quite frankly, I don't care.

And while I'm not entirely closed off to the idea that there may be some form of higher power, I definitely don't believe in an interventionist God who loves us all. That notion is bollcoks, as far as I'm concerned. And if there is an interventionist God then, quite frankly, he's an evil bastard. Look at the amount of shít that happens in the world. No loving God could EVER be responsible for stuff happening.

I do like the idea that there is an afterlife, but if I had to be honest with myself I would have to say that there almost certainly isn't one.

Also, I don't believe in karma or fate, or things happening for a reason. Good things happen to bastards who deserve nothing, and decent people get thrown through the mill. The universe is random and uncaring. That's just the way it is, as far as I'm concerned. And we're all powerless to change any of that.

As for Catholicism, it's all a bit too much effort. Like my sister is having her daughter baptised soon, and I'm to be godfather, For her sake, and my family's sake, I agreed to do it. But I honestly don't see the point in indoctrinating a child into a religion that nobody in my family is even bothered about anymore. It seems to be done just because it's the done thing. I'm never having kids (I'm the least child-friendly person I know!) but if I ever did, I would not get them baptised. And I probably won't ever get married, but if I do it won't be in a church. (Of course, if the person I'm "marrying" is a man aswell, I won't have the option anyway! :pac:)

Which brings me to something Jako8 mentions. The views of the Catholic Church and many other major organised religions on homosexuality, contraception, abortion, euthenasia.....quite frankly, they disgust me. Even civil rights have been quashed by religion; I'm not tarring all Muslims with the same brush because some Muslim countries are comparatively moderate (Turkey and Jordan, for example.) But just look at what people have to go through in Saudi Arabia., under the ever watching eye of the Mutaween (religious police.) It's just.......ugh. Mindboggling.

Like I mentioned before, militant atheism pisses me off. Because I hate to see decent religious people being made fun of for their beliefs. I have no problem with religious people, so long as they don't cram their beliefs down my throat, or use their religious beliefs as justification for bigotted or homophobic views.

I'm rambling. I'll stop now.

/blog length post

Bottleopener

I come from a Catholic family, and have been through communion etc. My parents are quite religious - my Mam goes to mass most days of the week. I go with them on Sunday to keep them happy - I see no use in creating unnecessary tension by refusing to go.

I do not really believe in the majority of the stuff the church teaches, and have my own reasons for doing so. I am confident in my beliefs (or lack thereof), but I know that it's probably for the best I, whilst I'm living at home, go along with my parents to mass. I do like the community aspect the local church brings - my parents are both very involved in stuff around the parish, and I'll help out my father when he's on sacristan duty (he has a load of health problems, and I do most of the work now - but it gives him a sense of something to do at the weekends, and helps him to be involved in the community).

Church attendance on the whole among young people appears to be very, very low. I remember last year a quick poll taken in religion class showed that only 2 out of 20 of us still went to mass. Must be a pretty big contrast with the figures from 20 years ago.

TrustedApple

Well i was a catholic because of my mum and dad but know one in my family is catholic anymore because we all just think its a pack of lies and crap that was made up over 2000 years ago and way do we still have to believe in it in this day and age.

If you where a real catholic you cant have sex before marriage is the bigist Cra.p i have i think the catholic religion has come on like. Also with what the people in the catholic religion done to children was just wrong and they still wont say they did all does things to them that to me are sick sick Fuc.kers

Anyway i met a person the same age as me how is 100% catholic at our age i think he/she was int well in the head.

No meat today has one thing i had a nice steak today for lunch with my girlfriend who had the same and two old people where turn there noses up at us while we where eating it and she had ash on her forehead really old school catholic and i told her what the hell are you looking at its a steak and the old one told me that way was i not eating fish today because you have to. I told her back well i am free to do anything i like. But she then said your catholic and you must believe in it our your going to hell. I told her back i am also having sex with my girlfriend and using condoms to so i must be going to hell for that and also you believe in your funny little cult. Everyone in the restaurant clapped me on for what i was saying. This was my 1st public outburst at someone because i am playing 20 euro for my steak i going to enjoy every bit of and i only get to see my girlfriend two days a weak if its a good weak

But anyway the catholic religion is a cult to me and always well be because why do we have to believe in a book in this day and age that i think was made up to make money in the 1st place as a tax

amacachi

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

(Atheists = grand. Militant atheists = twats)

What's a militant atheist? Stalin?

Now I'm an apatheist (apathetic agnostic; it's a real thing!) Basically, I don't know if there's a higher power or not. Nobody does. And quite frankly, I don't care.

Sounds from the rest of your post you're an agnostic atheist.

Like I mentioned before, militant atheism pisses me off. Because I hate to see decent religious people being made fun of for their beliefs. I have no problem with religious people, so long as they don't cram their beliefs down my throat, or use their religious beliefs as justification for bigotted or homophobic views.

Just to do a Dawkins, why should someone's insane beliefs be treated with respect once it's called a religion?

Pygmalion

Not a fan tbh.

The entire concept of accepting certain things to be true on faith alone I think is quite detrimental.
That these things often overlap with issues on morality, ethics and equality makes it abhorrent.

As for specific religions, the fact that none of the major ones have survived without a need to frequently re-interpret and ignore their core teachings to fit more modern views says something about their use as a moral guide.
And on that note, questioning religious beliefs seems to make one "militant" in the eyes of many, which means that these reforms are usually quite a long and difficult process.

jumpguy

I do believe in a God. However, he/she (irrelevant really) is my god, and I reject most of the connie the Catholic church throw our way. I hope god would judge me not on whether I go around trying to "convert" people, go to mass, or eat meat on Ash Wednesday (I didn't start the day well anyway, had a chicken roll for breakfast). Hopefully I'd be judged for the good I do in this world, and not on whether I obey what the Pope says I ought to do.

As for Jesus, I believe Jesus was a good man and a revolutionary who indeed did many good things, and shows excellent morality, and indeed is a moral example worth following.

Speaking of morality, I don't think religion is a moral guide for people. Not at all. In fact, that's so untrue, I won't even bother going into depth about it.

I think religion, for me, is a personal thing. I don't believe in the Church as an instituition, it's rather self-serving and has commited more wrongdoings over the centuries than any other organisation I can think of. People can express their view, just so long as they don't force their view on me, and I most certainly won't force my view on them. I'd never bring religion into a debate. People who get all snobby and judge people or thing people are inferior to them because they believe in a religion actually make me sick though. It says a lot more negative things about the person judging than it does the person who is religious. On the other side, religion fundamentalists also make me sick.

It's part of my life I don't actively discuss, because it's just that, personal and I really don't care about other's opinions on it. It's like trying to convince someone who just doesn't like marmite that it tastes nice. It's just a personal conviction.

Lawliet

amacachi wrote: »

Just to do a Dawkins, why should someone's insane beliefs be treated with respect once it's called a religion?

Inclined to agree here. I don't see why religion must be automatically respected, let alone awarded all the rights and privileges that it gets. Particularly considering these beliefs are sometimes used as an excuse to discriminate against others and justify criminal behaviour. I understand religion is a personal thing and so criticising it makes people uncomfortable, but when personal beliefs are being used for political ends -as they are every single day- then it needs to be criticised.

Jamie Starr

First of all, I don't mind religion. I think it gives you some basic moral values like "be nice to one another" and "try to live a happy life". All religious texts are guides, interpretations on how to live a life like that. You can't expect everything in a book hundreds of years old to be up-to-date with your sensibilities, but I think the parables in the New Testament, for example, still have some ideas you can take something from.

I can never quite bring myself to make fun of religion, or pick holes in it, because it's such a brilliant embodiment of what makes us human. We want to believe in something so badly, we try our best to project that picture in our minds onto reality. It's the reason there are churches, priests, prayers, rules. It's the reason we don't go to church, the reason we don't pray, the reason we remove certain ideas from our lives. Ultimately, I believe all we want to do is throw an image on reality which we feel we can look at and live with.

When I say I don't believe in God, in Heaven or Hell, or in the zillions of other things I disregard or wholly invest in on a day to day basis (I'm like that), that's just what I think. Someone might think something different, and in order to make my image of life matter, I'll probably call them on it. Deep down though, I know it's all just in our heads, that we're just trying to bend reality into the shape we want- and it's the millions of other shapes and images I don't agree with that make mine seem more real. Religion is a great thing, even if it only exists so we can argue why it isn't a great thing. It adds detail to whatever picture you wish paint.

In conclusion, reality is what you make it.

/charliesheen

Grindylow

Well I was raised Catholic (Baptised, Communion, Confirmation, etc.) and I still am one. I used be made go to church every Sunday up until about 6th class, but I don't go anymore. The church just isn't for me, especially with all the drama that happened with it. The way I see it is there's no need for the pope etc either, God should be the only one ruling over it. Just because the pope says one thing means it comes into action in the catholic community which kinda goes against God considering there isn't much that can be done about it, yano?

But yeah I'm not ashamed of it like, I think it's a nice thing to believe in, but I sometimes do fear the whole heaven thing. I do believe in it, but sometimes if I think about it, it just gets awfully scary and stuff.. I dunno it probably sounds really weird to people.

TLDR: I'm religious.

Pygmalion

Agnostic Mantis wrote: »

I think it gives you some basic moral values like "be nice to one another" and "try to live a happy life".

To be honest if someone needs a religion to tell them that being nice to other people is a good thing then there's something seriously wrong with them.
No point sugar coating it.

Jackobyte

Lawliet wrote: »

Inclined to agree here. I don't see why religion must be automatically respected, let alone awarded all the rights and privileges that it gets. Particularly considering these beliefs are sometimes used as an excuse to discriminate against others and justify criminal behaviour. I understand religion is a personal thing and so criticising it makes people uncomfortable, but when personal beliefs are being used for political ends -as they are every single day- then it needs to be criticised.

To quote one Robert Pirsig: "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

Davidius

I'm an atheist in the sense that I do not believe in any god. That is not to say that I know with certainty that there is no God or are no gods but there is nothing to suggest it so I don't see any good reason to believe in it. Looking at it objectively the God(s) hypothesis doesn't have much of a foundation over anything else you can think of.

On the topic of militant atheism: I use to find this more annoying than I do now and maybe I've started to fall under 'militant'. I still hold the belief that everybody certainly has the right to hold certain beliefs, however I also fully support the right for others to openly criticise religious views even though it makes others uncomfortable. I hold that to be religious one would need to suspend their critical/skeptical faculties or has too easily allowed themselves to be swayed by personal desire/emotion. Blind faith in something is not really a rational point of view and I don't think it needs protection from criticism.

The thing I don't like about 'militant' atheism is that some advocates can make it too personal, bringing it back to their own religious upbringing in such a way that it comes across as angry ranting rather than actual skepticism/rational argument. (That's not too say I don't think there's something wrong with raising your kids in a religion.)

KnifeWRENCH

amacachi wrote: »

Just to do a Dawkins, why should someone's insane beliefs be treated with respect once it's called a religion?

They may be insane to you or to me, but not to the person who believes it. I'm not saying you have to respect anyone's beliefs, I'm just saying be nice and don't throw copies of Dawkins books at them or whatever. If they let you be, leave them be. Insulting or making fun of someone because they have different beliefs to you, no matter how ridiculous their beliefs may seem, just doesn't sit well with me.
Now when they use their beliefs to try and justify crime/war/homophobia etc., then I stop having any sympathy with them....

Lawliet wrote: »

Inclined to agree here. I don't see why religion must be automatically respected, let alone awarded all the rights and privileges that it gets. Particularly considering these beliefs are sometimes used as an excuse to discriminate against others and justify criminal behaviour. I understand religion is a personal thing and so criticising it makes people uncomfortable, but when personal beliefs are being used for political ends -as they are every single day- then it needs to be criticised.

Eh....if you read my post (and since you're replying to amacachi, who was replying to me, I hope you did.) I specifically made mention of that.

Like I mentioned before, militant atheism pisses me off. Because I hate to see decent religious people being made fun of for their beliefs. I have no problem with religious people, so long as they don't cram their beliefs down my throat, or use their religious beliefs as justification for bigotted or homophobic views.

I'm not saying that religion automatically deserves respect and I certainly agree that the whole "rights and privileges" thing shouldn't exist. All I'm saying is that if someone doesn't try forcing their beliefs down your throat, then don't force yours down theirs. Live and let live etc.

I guess the way I should be saying it is that religious views are not above criticism when they conflict with human rights. But when religious views don't go any further than "Jesus loves me so long as I'm not murdering anyone" then I don't see why anyone would bother going to the trouble of arguing with them over it. Tbh, most "Catholics" today are just decent folk who say prayers every so often and go to mass once a week. They're not marching down the street calling for teh gheys to be shot or for anyone who works on the sabbath to be stoned. So why would anyone bother actively trying to make those people feel bad?

Jackobyte

*must not click Jedi*