Neil Lennon

OhNoYouDidn't

Neil Lennon and his family are currently living in an undisclosed location with 24 hour armed police protection after a hoax bomb was sent to his home. This a few weeks after bullets send from the north were intercepted in the post before reaching him.

He has also been assaulted twice by Rangers fans in the street, once requiring him to go to hospital. A compination of his ethnicity and his abrasive, winning, mentality seem to really bring out the worst in some of the 'fans' of the blue half of Glasgow.

As he is a young Irish manager doing well overseas, I trust we all support him in these trying times for him and his family.

Le King

There are people who are just bigots who hide behind a football jersey. These guys aren't fans. They're idiots, ruining the game. It's quite disgusting to see this still happening in this day and age. Some people need to grow up.

Xavi6

I support him because of what he has been subjected to, not because of his nationality, club or any other circumstances outside of the treatment he gets.

He doesn't get any special sympathy for being Neil Lennon Celtic manager, slayer of all things hun.

super_furry

Glasgow's a weird place. All these lunatics on both sides milling around just desperate to out-Nordie the Nordies. I've been there a couple of times, and once to see Celtic play, but I could never relax, always felt on my guard and wouldn't be keen to go back anytime soon.

Anyway, feck the Old Firm, glory glory to the Hibees!

OhNoYouDidn't

super_furry wrote: »

Glasgow's a weird place. All these people lunatics on both sides milling around just desperate to out-Nordie the Nordies.

Ahhh, the moral equivalence argument. Only took 4 posts.

Tell you what, you find me an example of Celtic fans acting in a way that required a Rangers manager to go into hiding and you might get taken seriously.

This thread isn't about Celtic fans v Rangers fans. Its about Neil Lennon and the extreme situation it has become.

Xavi6

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

This thread isn't about Celtic fans v Rangers fans.

Tell you what, you find me an example of Celtic fans acting in a way that required a Rangers manager to go into hiding and you might get taken seriously

super_furry

I'm not making any argument at all, just explaining that I think Glasgow's a dodgy town full of absolute headcases.

Peadar_85

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Tell you what, you find me an example of Celtic fans acting in a way that required a Rangers manager to go into hiding and you might get taken seriously.

This thread isn't about Celtic fans v Rangers fans. Its about Neil Lennon and the extreme situation it has become.

Very good point - I can't recall ever hearing Walter Smith needing 24 hr security.

I appreciate that the thread isn't about Celtic fans v Rangers fans and I know Celtic have plenty of scum in their ranks too but it's hard to get away from the fact that Celtic brought circa. 80,000 fans to Seville for the 2003 UEFA cup final and they were widely regarded to be A+ supporters while a few years later Rangers supporters go down and wreck Manchester on the same occasion. OK obviously it wasn't all their supporters involved but the only thing I remember about the final was the trouble that was caused.

Gavin "shels"

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Neil Lennon and his family are currently living in an undisclosed location with 24 hour armed police protection after a hoax bomb was sent to his home.

He has also been assaulted twice by Rangers fans in the street, once requiring him to go to hospital.

Has been two hoax bombs afaik.

How do you know they were Rangers "fans"?

MrStuffins

Gavin shels wrote: »

How do you know they were Rangers "fans"?

You're right, it was probably Al Qaeda :rolleyes:

Het-Field

MrStuffins wrote: »

You're right, it was probably Al Qaeda :rolleyes:

Show me some evidence, and then I will happily accept that it was committed by Rangers fans.

Otherwise, it remains two assaults, and a hoax committed by two un-affiliated nutters.

Gavin "shels"

MrStuffins wrote: »

You're right, it was probably Al Qaeda :rolleyes:

So if Walter Smith gets attacked it's automatically Celtic fans that done it?

MrStuffins

Het-Field wrote: »

Show me some evidence, and then I will happily accept that it was committed by Rangers fans.

Otherwise, it remains two assaults, and a hoax committed by two un-affiliated nutters.

Gavin shels wrote: »

So if Walter Smith gets attacked it's automatically Celtic fans that done it?

You lads can play the "oh sure there's no evidence" card all you want, but you know that this was Rangers supporters.

I can't prove it. But I also can't prove that core of Jupiter isn't made intirely of Tesco Brand Spreadable Cheese!

Gavin "shels"

MrStuffins wrote: »

but you know that this was Rangers supporters...

I can't prove it.

Het-Field

MrStuffins wrote: »

You lads can play the "oh sure there's no evidence" card all you want, but you know that this was Rangers supporters.

I can't prove it. But I also can't prove that core of Jupiter isn't made intirely of Tesco Brand Spreadable Cheese!

You cant speak for me and what I know.

Who is to say this was not the work of cruel pranksters ? Who is to say that this was done by sectarians with no footballing affiliations ? Who is to say it wasnt the product of a political organisation ?

Of course you can prove your facetious nonsense about Jupiter. Look at any reputable astronomy book. On the other hand, you have admitted that you cant prove whether these were Rangers fans or not. Therefore, it is little more then an inference, drawn from nothing tangible.

gimmick

Headcases all and Lennon has had more than his fair share of abuse, but

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

Show me some evidence, and then I will happily accept that it was committed by Rangers fans.

Otherwise, it remains two assaults, and a hoax committed by two un-affiliated nutters.

Both the assaults led to convictions. All 5 were named in court as being Rangers fans and that that was their motive.

You can try and muddy the waters all you like, but it wasn't the Red Brigades, now was it.

OhNoYouDidn't

Gavin shels wrote: »

So if Walter Smith gets attacked it's automatically Celtic fans that done it?

On the balance of probability, yes, it probably would be.

Its not in dispute that the assaults were carried out by Rangers fans. No-one will know exactly who sent him two hoax bombs or bullets unless they are caught. But thats somewhat irrelevant. He shouldn't have to deal with this just for being an Irish employee of Celtic.

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Both the assaults led to convictions. All 5 were named in court as being Rangers fans and that that was their motive.

You can try and muddy the waters all you like, but it wasn't the Red Brigades, now was it.

Then you are citing former cases which are irrelevant to the current matter i.e the bomb scare.

Thus, it remains that you have no evidence regarding the footballing affiliations of those involved in the two recent incidents. Im not trying to muddy waters. Im just not going to allow for the rabble rousing Celtic crew to jump up and down, with no tangible evidence.

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

Then you are citing former cases which are irrelevant to the current matter i.e the bomb scare.

Thus, it remains that you have no evidence regarding the footballing affiliations of those involved in the two recent incidents. Im not trying to muddy waters. Im just not going to allow for the rabble rousing Celtic crew to jump up and down, with no tangible evidence.

So you are backtrackig from your assertation that none of the incidents were Rangers fans. Good.

The police are working on the basis that the postal incidents were Rangers fans. The Rangers fans on here are working on the principal it was Rangers fans.

As has been said before, you don't need difinitive proof to have a strong inclination as to the motives behind this campaign. And it has to stop.

seafood dunleavy

Gavin shels wrote: »

Has been two hoax bombs afaik.

How do you know they were Rangers "fans"?

Do you actually think theres a doubt about who they support?And yes two hoax bombs,nothing to worry about.Apart from being told to leave your house by the police in the middle of the night.

OhNoYouDidn't

seafood dunleavy wrote: »

Do you actually think theres a doubt about who they support?And yes two hoax bombs,nothing to worry about.Apart from being told to leave your house by the police in the middle of the night.

Even if it wasn't Rangers fans, and it is worth acknowledging that there is no difinitive proof it was, its still fundamentally wrong.

Imagine the fuss if Alex Ferguson or Wenger had to put up with this?

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So you are backtrackig from your assertation that none of the incidents were Rangers fans. Good.

The police are working on the basis that the postal incidents were Rangers fans. The Rangers fans on here are working on the principal it was Rangers fans.

As has been said before, you don't need difinitive proof to have a strong inclination as to the motives behind this campaign. And it has to stop.

Im not backtracking. I am accepting that I was wrong. I was not aware that those cases had been prosecuted. For the avoidance of doubt, there is no evidence that these assaults are linked to the current case. Further, you are drawing inferences from past, unrelated incidents. These inference are of no good to anybody.

Show me the evidence that the Police are working on that basis. Further, show me that the basis is well founded, and beyond a hunch which is stimulated by virtue of sectarian difficulties. I dont care what the Rangers fans on here are saying. They are not party to the incident, so their opinion is worthless.

Sorry, the criminal law works on something more solid then "inclinations", and a "balance of probability".

I totally agree that Lennon should be left unfettered by the actions of others. But you are seeking to conflate footballing affiliations on the basis of previous incidents.

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

I totally agree that Lennon should be left unfettered by the actions of others. But you are seeking to conflate footballing affiliations on the basis of previous incidents.

I am indeed. As a player and as a manager Neil Lennon has had to endure unprecedented abuse, violence and death threats. To the point where he was spirited away in the middle of the night by armed police for his own safety.

You can go off on tangents till the cows come home. But Rangers fans have form on this and its fair to call them on it.

This situation is out of control and the media silence on it is deafening.

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I am indeed. As a player and as a manager Neil Lennon has had to endure unprecedented abuse, violence and death threats. To the point where he was spirited away in the middle of the night by armed police for his own safety.

You can go off on tangents till the cows come home. But Rangers fans have form on this and its fair to call them on it.

This situation is out of control and the media silence on it is deafening.

The law of Evidence is also conscious of utilising bad character evidence. Thus, it is not "fair" to call anybody on this. There are countless explainations for who could be responsible for this. You just prefer to draw an inference which suits your purpose.

As I have said, Lennon should be left alone.

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

The law of Evidence is also conscious of utilising bad character evidence. Thus, it is not "fair" to call anybody on this. There are countless explainations for who could be responsible for this. You just prefer to draw an inference which suits your purpose.

As I have said, Lennon should be left alone.

I'm all ears

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I'm all ears

-Very cruel Pranksters.
-Political Organisations.
-People with non-football related grudges.


I defy you to tell me that you can categorically rule these out.

Pauleta

OP, why did you start this thread? Was there something you wanted debated about the subject or did you just want everyone to agree with you and have a big Rangers bashing thread. Its the only reason i could possibly work out why the thread was even started

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

-Very cruel Pranksters.
-Political Organisations.
-People with non-football related grudges.


I defy you to tell me that you can categorically rule these out.

Animal Liberation Front
Anti Gingers
The Illuminati.

FFS, get real. We all know who did it even if there is no direct proof. Even the cesspit that is Follow Follow isn't deflecting like you are - half of them support it.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So you are backtrackig from your assertation that none of the incidents were Rangers fans. Good.

The police are working on the basis that the postal incidents were Rangers fans. The Rangers fans on here are working on the principal it was Rangers fans.

As has been said before, you don't need difinitive proof to have a strong inclination as to the motives behind this campaign. And it has to stop.

Please tell me where the bears on here said it was Rangers fans ??
The people who are responsible for these latest incidents which I condemn may try and affiliate themselves to The Rangers Football Club but in no way can they be classed as Fans

OhNoYouDidn't

Pauleta wrote: »

OP, why did you start this thread? Was there something you wanted debated about the subject or did you just want everyone to agree with you and have a big Rangers bashing thread. Its the only reason i could possibly work out why the thread was even started

I kind of naively assumed that the majority of posters here would agree that what Lenny has to put up with was unnaceptible. The fact that Rangers fans are involved is irrelevant.

My mistake obviously.

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Animal Liberation Front
Anti Gingers
The Illuminati.

FFS, get real. We all know who did it even if there is no direct proof. Even the cesspit that is Follow Follow isn't deflecting like you are - half of them support it.

Resorting to facetious nonsense to avoid categorically denying that the three I mentioned can be ruled out. How many bomb-scares are hoax's for publicity sake from small minded numbskulls ? Can you deny that extreme political organisations may be culpable, and are simply bandwagoning on the media circus which has ensued since the game at CP last week ?

The is no proof at all. Direct or otherwise. Essentially, this thread is nothing more then an outlet for you to vent ? Am I wrong ?

bobbysands81

Pauleta wrote: »

OP, why did you start this thread? Was there something you wanted debated about the subject or did you just want everyone to agree with you and have a big Rangers bashing thread. Its the only reason i could possibly work out why the thread was even started

So an Irish manager has received bullets in the post, death threats, has 24 hour security, has had to been removed three times from his house in the middle of the night due to imminent attacks (in the last couple of months), has been attacked on the streets and you're wondering why this thread was started???!!

...but remember we best not speak evil of Rangers fans in case we hurt their feelings eh?

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

Resorting to facetious nonsense to avoid categorically denying that the three I mentioned can be ruled out. How many bomb-scares are hoax's for publicity sake from small minded numbskulls ? Can you deny that extreme political organisations may be culpable, and are simply bandwagoning on the media circus which has ensued since the game at CP last week ?

The is no proof at all. Direct or otherwise. Essentially, this thread is nothing more then an outlet for you to vent ? Am I wrong ?

If he was manager of any other club, would you be clutching at straws like this...?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So an Irish manager has received bullets in the post, death threats, has 24 hour security, has had to been removed three times from his house in the middle of the night due to imminent attacks (in the last couple of months), has been attacked on the streets and you're wondering why this thread was started???!!

...but remember we best not speak evil of Rangers fans in case we hurt their feelings eh?

You won't hurt my feelings Bobby :p

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I kind of naively assumed that the majority of posters here would agree that what Lenny has to put up with was unnaceptible. The fact that Rangers fans are involved is irrelevant.

My mistake obviously.

We all agree that Neil Lennon is entitled to be left alone and in peace. He is a football manager, and like all other managers should be let about his daily business. Suggesting that you "naively" assumed that we would support him is an attempt to shirk the argument. You know well we are all behind him in terms of this treatment.

But you know well that your OP was completely loaded, and went far beyond a word of support for Neil Lennon.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

A compination of his ethnicity and his abrasive, winning, mentality seem to really bring out the worst in some of the 'fans' of the blue half of Glasgow.

K-9

This thread is a surprise.

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If he was manager of any other club, would you be clutching at straws like this...?

What are you on about ? Categorically deny that there are potential alternative explainations or I will assume you conceed the point.

bobbysands81

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

You won't hurt my feelings Bobby :p

You know I'd never dream of it sweetheart!

Hope you're well on the road to recovery mate!

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

What are you on about ? Categorically deny that there are potential alternative explainations or I will assume you conceed the point.

I have stated that we cannot categorically deny that the nail bombs in the post from west Glasgow were not the work of Beider Manhoff or the Shining Path.

But the balance of probability is that it was a bigoted 'supporter' of Rangers who despises what Neil Lennon is.

Do you deny that?

bobbysands81

Het-Field wrote: »

What are you on about ? Categorically deny that there are potential alternative explainations or I will assume you conceed the point.

Of course there are other potential alternative explanations - sure didn't he give you a few of them himself?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You know I'd never dream of it sweetheart!

Hope you're well on the road to recovery mate!

Getting there very slowly mate

OhNoYouDidn't

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Hope you're well on the road to recovery mate!

Second that. Hope all is well BBE, believe it or not, we missed you round here...

Pauleta

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So an Irish manager has received bullets in the post, death threats, has 24 hour security, has had to been removed three times from his house in the middle of the night due to imminent attacks (in the last couple of months), has been attacked on the streets and you're wondering why this thread was started???!!

...but remember we best not speak evil of Rangers fans in case we hurt their feelings eh?

Obviously its a terrible thing to happen but its not really something to debate. Thats what the celtic thread is for, which im sure its being commended wholly. I just think its strange.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I have stated that we cannot categorically deny that the HOAX nail bombs in the post from west Glasgow were not the work of Beider Manhoff or the Shining Path.

But the balance of probability is that it was a bigoted 'supporter' of Rangers who despises what Neil Lennon is.

Do you deny that?

Fixed that for you

OhNoYouDidn't

Pauleta wrote: »

Obviously its a terrible thing to happen but its not really something to debate. Thats what the celtic thread is for, which im sure its being commended wholly. I just think its strange.

You don't think this situation is worthy of a thread on its own?

Especially seeing as the chap is Irish?

I find that quite strange myself. As I said, if this happened in England there would be uproar. Happens outside England and its downplayed

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I have stated that we cannot categorically deny that the nail bombs in the post from west Glasgow were not the work of Beider Manhoff or the Shining Path.

But the balance of probability is that it was a bigoted 'supporter' of Rangers who despises what Neil Lennon is.

Do you deny that?

I cannot deny your logic. Yet, I believe there are other plausable explainations, which are political, or personality based, and which have nothing to do with the beautiful game, or those who purport to engage with it in whatever form.

Ill explore all the options. If it ultimately transpires that you are correct, then I will certainly admit that I am wrong. However, there is no certainty around this matter at all.

bobbysands81

Het-Field wrote: »

I cannot deny your logic. Yet, I believe there are other plausable explainations, which are political, or personality based, and which have nothing to do with the beautiful game, or those who purport to engage with it in whatever form.

Ill explore all the options. If it ultimately transpires that you are correct, then I will certainly admit that I am wrong. However, there is no certainty around this matter at all.

I think ONYD is implying probability not certainty.

Dempsey

The abuse he's been subjected to is nothing short of a disgrace.

People that know the do's and donts of sending bullets and hoax nail bombs through the post so that the police cant trace them must be proper sneaky evil b@stards.

I'm afraid to think what might happen if Celtic beat Rangers in the League Cup Final, this nut might step up his campaign if he's not caught.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/9420611.stm

Celtic boss Neil Lennon's agent has insisted that his client will not walk away from the club despite threats made against him.

The Northern Irishman, 39, has had bullets addressed to him in the post and a hoax mail bomb alert this season.

That led to suggestions that Lennon might leave Celtic before his contract runs out at the end of the season.

However, Martin Reilly told BBC Scotland: "As far as quitting as a manager goes, it's not in his nature."

Glad to hear that he wont be giving in to the threats

A Dub in Glasgo

It is a disgrace and I can guarantee that this would be big news across Europe if this was a manager from one of the big leagues. It is laughable that there are some who do not even think it merits a thread here... unbelievable.

karma_

It's too bad that this has turned into another Celtic v Rangers slanging match. It is an important story and most likely deserves to be discussed in a rational manner as I cannot recall any other manager being subjected to death threats or being the victim of hoax bomb attacks.

It's a real shame that it's been dragged into a slanging match even before we got through one page.