Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Thrill

strong quake felt in tokyo, lasts 15 seconds or more

maquiladora

easataro: Quake with intensity of 6plus on Jpanaese scale of 7 hits eastern Shizuoka Rocks wide area including #Tokyo #JapanQuake

No Tsunami alert.

seamus

maquiladora wrote: »

IAEA said that earlier "radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere". Is that not a release of radioactive material?

Unfortunately not, that's an annoyingly unclear statement.

Radiation and radioactive materials are different things. Radiation (which is often also called radioactvitiy) is the emission of subatomic particles. These can travel long distances and can cause damage to cells and the like but once they've been absorbed by the environment, they're usually harmless. Being in the vicinity of radiation doesn't "infect" you with radiation and once removed from the source of radiation, you're safe.

Radioactive materials on the other hand emit radiation. If these get onto the atmosphere and from there into the environment, they will continue to emit radiation, causing long-term exposure effects. This is why Chernobyl is a wasteland. In this case, removing onesself from the source of the radiation is impossible (it's on your clothers, in the air and in your body) and all you can do is try to decontaminate.

The IAEA statement is unclear because it doesn't state whether radioactive materials have been released in the atmosphere (which is a big problem) or whether excess radiation is simply being emitted.

I suspect the latter - once brought under control, the radiation will stop and the surrounding area is safe. If it's radioactive materials, then the local environment is already screwed and having people lock themselves indoors isn't going to do much in the long run.

Thrill

Quake was M6.2 at depth of 10km, centered under east Shizuoka.

Brain Stroking

Is a quake over 6 in Tokyo not a significant event in itself? Would that not cause significant damage? Are they in danger of getting another huge one?

Saadyst

Nice article over at the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198723013907008.html

Overheal

Brain Stroking wrote: »

The Franch say it is a Level 6 when all else say Level 4. The French came out last week and said that they recognised the Libyan rebels as the new Libyan government. Jump the gun much?

Not to defend the French but Chernobyl is a 7 and Three Mile Island was a 5. Is the Fukushima Crisis really still better off than Three Mile Island? All things considered, I think not.

maquiladora

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Is a quake over 6 in Tokyo not a significant event in itself? Would that not cause significant damage? Are they in danger of getting another huge one?

No damage reported.

cherryghost

Just seeing some live videos up from that already, some shaking going on there. Not much to worry about unless its a sign of another forthcoming quake elsewhere, but I doubt it.

opinion guy

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Is a quake over 6 in Tokyo not a significant event in itself? Would that not cause significant damage? Are they in danger of getting another huge one?

There have been multiple quakes over 6 since Friday. The Japanese konw how to build properly.

Run_to_da_hills

opinion guy wrote: »

There have been multiple quakes over 6 since Friday. The Japanese konw how to build properly.

There is a 6 as we speak in Shhizuoka NHK.

Saadyst

Saadyst wrote: »

Nice article over at the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198723013907008.html

And another:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/15/fukushima_update_tuesday/

Thrill

Overheal wrote: »

Not to defend the French but Chernobyl is a 7 and Three Mile Island was a 5. Is the Fukushima Crisis really still better off than Three Mile Island? All things considered, I think not.

Is the TMI incident classified too high? I don't know the criteria laid for each classification, so I wouldnt know.

Overheal

Thrill wrote: »

Is the TMI incident classified too high? I don't know the criteria laid for each classification, so I wouldnt know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nuclear_Event_Scale

as it turns out I dont think there have been any deaths, yet. I believe they're coming. That still leaves it at a 5 if you ask me.

gargleblaster

seamus wrote: »

The IAEA statement is unclear because it doesn't state whether radioactive materials have been released in the atmosphere (which is a big problem) or whether excess radiation is simply being emitted.

aren't the gasses that are being released in those explosions radioactive? how could they not be?

Tristram

Over 150 aftershocks since Friday. Each aftershock seems to convince more expats to leave. Stressful times.

seamus

gargleblaster wrote: »

aren't the gasses that are being released in those explosions radioactive? how could they not be?

The explosions primarily involve hydrogen and oxygen reactions, derived from superheated water. Neither are radioactive and the resultant explosion, while devastating (hydrogen and oxygen being very good at exploding), does not contain any radioactive material.

The explosions are primarily occuring outside of the core, it's not nuclear materials that are exploding and the explosions aren't occuring in the core and bringing radioactive materials with them.

This is contrasted with Chernobyl where part of the inner core did indeed get ejected in the initial explosion.

Over 150 aftershocks since Friday. Each aftershock seems to convince more expats to leave. Stressful times.

When you consider that 1,000 earthquakes per year is typical for the entire country and 1,500 is big but not abnormal, then 150 quakes in one area in just four days seems to indicate ongoing seismic instability. Could be rough times ahead for Tokyo.

Dempsey

gargleblaster wrote: »

aren't the gasses that are being released in those explosions radioactive? how could they not be?

He doesnt know, like everyone else. He is speculating. Yesterday he was trying to convince me that the explosions at the plant were controlled or had an element of control which is total bull.

seamus wrote: »

The explosions primarily involve hydrogen and oxygen reactions, derived from superheated water. Neither are radioactive and the resultant explosion, while devastating (hydrogen and oxygen being very good at exploding), does not contain any radioactive material.

The explosions are primarily occuring outside of the core, it's not nuclear materials that are exploding and the explosions aren't occuring in the core and bringing radioactive materials with them.

This is contrasted with Chernobyl where part of the inner core did indeed get ejected in the initial explosion.

A spent fuel pond at Reactor no.4 caught fire

Whahey!

The IAEA are now saying that the explosion yesterday at the Fukushima Daiichi plant may have affected the integrity of the main containment vessel.

Cookie_Monster

TV on the office, Sky showing another explosion, is this a fourth, or is it just recycled footage of the one reported overnight?
Can't quite see the text from where I am.

Mr Benevolent

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

TV on the office, Sky showing another explosion, is this a fourth, or is it just recycled footage of the one reported overnight?
Can't quite see the text from where I am.

Almost certainly recycled footage.

seamus

Dempsey wrote: »

He doesnt know, like everyone else. He is speculating. Yesterday he was trying to convince me that the explosions at the plant were controlled or had an element of control which is total bull.

Cite? I did qualify that these were intentional moreso than properly controlled explosions. It's what tends to happen in these scenarios. Yes, I am speculating, just like you.

A spent fuel pond at Reactor no.4 caught fire

Indeed it did. This has been quenched now, any resulting fallout still has to be evaluated.

Whahey!

More than likely just recycled news. There were three explosions and the latest news was a fire in spent fuel at reactor number four.

Dempsey

seamus wrote: »

Cite? I did qualify that these were intentional moreso than properly controlled explosions. It's what tends to happen in these scenarios. Yes, I am speculating, just like you.
Indeed it did. This has been quenched now, any resulting fallout still has to be evaluated.

Qualify? Your bull****ting, simple as that.

Again, how are they controlled explosions when people are getting badly injured and causing damage to containment systems. You think they are letting them off and crossing their fingers that nothing bad will happen! :rolleyes:

seamus

Dempsey wrote: »

You think they are letting them off and crossing their fingers that nothing bad will happen!

In a manner of speaking. They don't really have any other choice. It's a known risk of attempting to reduce the pressure in the core. It's an emergency situation, they do what they have to. You hardly think there are health and safety guys onsite doing a risk analysis.

Whahey!

The magnitude of the last quake in Shizuoka has been revised upwards to 6.4 from 6.0.

maquiladora

Operator of #Japan Fukushima Daiichi plant plan to use helicopters to pour water to cool fuel rods in #nuclear reactor 4 : CNN

cherryghost

Meteorological Agency of Japan reporting that the 6.4 earthquake near Tokyo occured on a SEPERATE PLATE (The Phillipines plate). There was also small jolts 4/5km away from Mt. Fuji. They aren't related.


They are also stating to be weary of further activity in those areas. All on NHK world right now.

maquiladora

Whahey! wrote: »

The magnitude of the last quake in Shizuoka has been revised upwards to 6.4 from 6.0.

Interesting that its a completely seperate earthquake from Fridays, according to the JMA. A different tectonic plate was involved.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/140_35.gif (Blue square left of Tokyo)

Hank Scorpio

The amount of dickwaving going on in this thread is unreal. First people were saying theres zero chance of any radiation being leaked, then people were saying everything is under control even when buildings were blowing themselves to pieces.

If there are some nuclear engineers posting here, or people with that kind of knowledge i apoligise though, but for the mostpart know one has any idea of whats going on or how bad it might get.

I havent got a clue about radiation levels or how the reactors work, but cant we just concentrate on the facts provided by actual professionals instead of talking through our arses