Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Jimmy Garlic

China getting ready to evacuate its citizens from north east Japan.

Saadyst

nuxxx wrote: »

The amount of dickwaving going on in this thread is unreal. First people were saying theres zero chance of any radiation being leaked, then people were saying everything is under control even when buildings were blowing themselves to pieces.

If there are some nuclear engineers posting here, or people with that kind of knowledge i apoligise though, but for the mostpart know one has any idea of whats going on or how bad it might get.

I havent got a clue about radiation levels or how the reactors work, but cant we just concentrate on the facts provided by actual professionals instead of talking through our arses

Yeah... I'll add most people on TV are hardly "experts".

Tens of thousands dead and even more missing... access to clean water, medical treatment, disease prevention, rescue etc are key issues and the real major problems.

Except everyone is having a fúcking circle jerk over this "nuclear threat", which is NOT going to have ANY major impact in comparison to what's already happened. What a fúcking travesty.

Topper Harley01

It must be pretty desperate if they are using helicopters to dump water onto the reactor. This must be done from a low height or the heat will simply evaporate the water before it has a chance to reach the reactor.

But at least it's getting water onto the reactor if done right.

maquiladora

Kyodo is reporting Japan's defense minister Toshimi Kitazawa as saying the government is considering using SDF helicopters to pour water on the spent fuel pool - akin to the method often used on forest fires - but the measure is on hold due to difficulty assessing the potential impact on the submerged fuel rods and the personnel involved.
by Reuters_MarkKolmar at 2:29 PM


The U.S. navy says more military personnel in Japan are testing positive for low levels of radiation (no figures). They say relief missions are continuing.
Some U.S. warships due to arrive on the east coast of Honshu, however, will now head to the west coast due to radiological hazards.
by Reuters_MarkKolmar at 2:27 PM

Mr Benevolent

Topper Harley01 wrote: »

It must be pretty desperate if they are using helicopters to dump water onto the reactor. This must be done from a low height or the heat will simply evaporate the water before it has a chance to reach the reactor.

But at least it's getting water onto the reactor if done right.

Yeah, but if they're talking about dumping water on the reactor, surely that means that the reactor containment has ruptured?

Dempsey

seamus wrote: »

In a manner of speaking. They don't really have any other choice. It's a known risk of attempting to reduce the pressure in the core. It's an emergency situation, they do what they have to. You hardly think there are health and safety guys onsite doing a risk analysis.

Why wait until its capable of blowing the roof off the building, badly injuring people and collapsing walls next to the containment vessel?

Topper Harley01

Confab wrote: »

Yeah, but if they're talking about dumping water on the reactor, surely that means that the reactor containment has ruptured?

Sorry I should have been more specific, it's the spent fuel pool they are talking about dumping the water on. They didn't say anything about the reactor.

Dempsey

Confab wrote: »

Yeah, but if they're talking about dumping water on the reactor, surely that means that the reactor containment has ruptured?

They are dumping water on the spent fuel pond to cool it as they believe the fuel inside is boiling or partially exposed

drdeadlift

Topper Harley01 wrote: »

It must be pretty desperate if they are using helicopters to dump water onto the reactor. This must be done from a low height or the heat will simply evaporate the water before it has a chance to reach the reactor.

But at least it's getting water onto the reactor if done right.

They are going to have to be very close above it,not a problem with the water evaporating it more getting an accurate hit.

maquiladora

Confab wrote: »

Yeah, but if they're talking about dumping water on the reactor, surely that means that the reactor containment has ruptured?

The spent fuel pool is located above the reactor.

gargleblaster

i don't think it's unreasonable for people to be preoccupied with the metldowns which are underway.

this is basically a giant experiment with the japaese people as guinea pigs. no, radiation won't cause as much death as the quake and tsunami did, but that doesn't mean that people should be expected to ignore the situation.

roryc1

Its easy to just focus in on the reactors but the spent fuel pool is a dangerous looking thing too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spent_fuel_pool

Helix

gargleblaster wrote: »

this is basically a giant experiment with the japaese people as guinea pigs

sure thing michiu

Overheal

gargleblaster wrote: »

this is basically a giant experiment with the japaese people as guinea pigs.

I know you're just repeating what someone else wrote on a third party site but he was a nutter that implied TEPCO was deliberately dicking around like they wanted to be able to study mutant babies or something.

Keeping in mind I will hazard a guess all the Plant workers live around the plant. I sure as hell don't like commuting very far to work.

It's the stupidest soundbyte I've heard since this whole thing started, include Gilbert Gottfried's tweets.

Whahey!

The water levels at Fukoshima Daiichi plant are recovering smoothly. TEPCO

Thank goodness!

Topper Harley01

Water levels at no.2 reactor reported to be stabilizing.

T0mmyM

Whahey! wrote: »

The water levels at Fukoshima Daiichi plant are recovering smoothly. TEPCO

Thank goodness!

That's for the number 2 reactor says Reuters.

gargleblaster

any alarmist claptrap you read into that statement is on you.

the simple fact is that this is uncharted territory. sorry if that makes anyone uncomfortable.

"Please do not go outside. Please stay indoors. Please close windows and make your homes airtight," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told residents in the danger zone

there are still people being endangered by this situation. it's rather oddto see people here, comfortably safe, brushing the danger off as if it doesn't exist. good thing the authorities in japan are taking it seriously.

Helix

Overheal wrote: »

I know you're just repeating what someone else wrote on a third party site but he was a nutter that implied TEPCO was deliberately dicking around like they wanted to be able to study mutant babies or something.

it was actually michu kaku who said it, who is far from a nutter, and he certainly wasnt implying anything of the sort

Overheal

gargleblaster wrote: »

any alarmist claptrap you read into that statement is on you.

the simple fact is that this is uncharted territory. sorry if that makes anyone uncomfortable.

"Please do not go outside. Please stay indoors. Please close windows and make your homes airtight," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told residents in the danger zone

there are still people being endangered by this situation. it's rather oddto see people here, comfortably safe, brushing the danger off as if it doesn't exist. good thing the authorities in japan are taking it seriously.

I also wear my seatbelt when I drive my Jeep.

Prepare for the Worst; Hope for the Best. Do the Japanese strike you as a culture that doesn't take every reasonable precaution? That's all I make of them telling people to stay indoors and such.

Water levels at no.2 reactor reported to be stabilizing.

Thats good but the levels in each core have fluctuated wildly over the past few days. they'll need to keep monitoring it, it's not as if No.2 is out of the danger yet.

gargleblaster

Overheal wrote: »

I also wear my seatbelt when I drive my Jeep.

Prepare for the Worst; Hope for the Best. Do the Japanese strike you as a culture that doesn't take every reasonable precaution? That's all I make of them telling people to stay indoors and such.Thats good but the levels in each core have fluctuated wildly over the past few days. they'll need to keep monitoring it, it's not as if No.2 is out of the danger yet.

much less overreaction in this response. i'll take that backpedaling as an admission that you were way off the mark in your last one

as for seatbelts, the analogy for them would be the pills. staying in your house, not going outside, and making your home airtight is a little more involved than buckling a seatbelt. nice try though.

i'm glad that you feel so unworried and unfazed by this, being as close as you are to the danger.

reminder: i'm not saying that anyone should be panicking, merely pointing out that being preoccupied with the news re: the meltdowns is reasonable.

davyjose

Saadyst wrote: »

Yeah... I'll add most people on TV are hardly "experts".

Tens of thousands dead and even more missing... access to clean water, medical treatment, disease prevention, rescue etc are key issues and the real major problems.

Except everyone is having a fúcking circle jerk over this "nuclear threat", which is NOT going to have ANY major impact in comparison to what's already happened. What a fúcking travesty.

You used an important word there -- "threat". The tsunami and earthquake are horrible tragedies, but they've happened. As tragic as it is, it's not as newsworthy as the unfolding events in fukushima, because the looming spectre of nuclear devastation still hangs in the air. And nobody knows how severe it'll be.

My 2c is that this should really have been resolved by now; the longer it goes on, the more chance of disaster, IMO. And I'm starting to get properly frightened.

Overheal

gargleblaster wrote: »

much less overreaction in this response. i'll take that backpedaling as an admission that you were way off the mark in your last one

?

Or reading back on the last several posts, perhaps you misunderstood my tone from the beginning?

The source of the Guinea Pig quote was an alarmist. Fuel for Conspiracy Theorists. Or at least thats how they are going to see it.

Conversely if you want to review my contributions to this thread over the last few days you will see I'm the farthest thing from an alarmist.

as for seatbelts, the analogy for them would be the pills. staying in your house, not going outside, and making your home airtight is a little more involved than buckling a seatbelt. nice try though.

Nice try to what?

i'm glad that you feel so unworried and unfazed by this, being as close as you are to the danger.

reminder: i'm not saying that anyone should be panicking, merely pointing out that being preoccupied with the news re: the meltdowns is reasonable.

I never said they shouldn't be occupied with the news?

Who do you think I am exactly? I'm confused. I want a coffee.

I thought about heading down to walgreens and grabbing Iodine a couple times but the radiation levels just arent that dire yet, and it is true I am very far away. It wouldn't be an unreasonable precaution on the West Coast though.

Turtwig

Radiation level's in Tokyo briefly spiked at around .90 µSv /hr in the after math of the torus explosion. They gradually receded over the three next hours to .2 µSv/hr.
This situation has gotten worse than Three Mile Island should still be containable though. My biggest fear earlier in this thread was actually for the spent fuel pools, it appears that these are still warming in Units V and Units VI and it is not known why.:(

T0mmyM

Japan government orders injections of water into Daiichi No. 4 reactor spent fuel pool

Overheal

davyjose wrote: »

My 2c is that this should really have been resolved by now; the longer it goes on, the more chance of disaster, IMO. And I'm starting to get properly frightened.

Meltdown situations can easily take days, weeks, and months to reach conclusion. Don't let the length of time in itself cause you to worry.

mgmt

Malty_T wrote: »

Radiation level's in Tokyo briefly spiked at around .90 µSv /hr in the after math of the torus explosion. They gradually receded over the three next hours to .2 µSv/hr.
This situation has gotten worse than Three Mile Island should still be containable though. My biggest fear earlier in this thread was actually for the spent fuel pools, it appears that these are still warming in Units V and Units VI and it is not known why.:(

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/web0316-radiation.jpg?w=620&h=993

Overheal

Malty_T wrote: »

Radiation level's in Tokyo briefly spiked at around .90 µSv /hr in the after math of the torus explosion. They gradually receded over the three next hours to .2 µSv/hr.

.2 µSV/hr is a nice low figure. Very, very far from lethal exposure levels. 110 years to absorb 2 SV if im not mistaken.

maquiladora

T0mmyM wrote: »

Japan government orders injections of water into Daiichi No. 4 reactor spent fuel pool

TEPCO said earlier today they werent able to do that, thats why helicopters are being considered now. The roof is still on No.4 building though isnt it, so Im not sure how they will do that.

The Sparrow

Since someone mentioned Michio Kaku, here is his latest post. What do we think?

http://bigthink.com/ideas/31617

The situation in Japan, as of Tuesday morning, keeps getting worse. We are getting close to the point of no return (the point where we have uncontrolled releases of radiation due to breach of containment).

News & Developments

* 3 reactors have suffered partial meltdowns.
* These three reactors also suffered hydrogen gas explosions
* A fourth unit has a nuclear waste storage site on fire (which can in principle release more radiation than in a standard reactor core).
* Almost all workers, except for 50, have been evacuated. Once all the workers are evacuated, full scale melting is inevitable.
* Unit 2 actually had 100% of its core fully exposed, for about 2 hours. Worse, cracks seem to have formed in the containment vessel, which may be the source of the very high radiation levels.
* Unit 3 uses MOX fuel, which contains some deadly plutonium, one of the most dangerous substances on earth.The utility keeps saying that things are stable, only to see things worsen. This "stability" is the stability of hanging by your fingernails.

If I had the ear of the Prime Minister, I would recommend the "Chernobyl Option."

* Put the Japanese Air Force on alert
* Assemble a huge fleet of helicopters. Put shielding underneath them.
* Accumulate enough sand, boric acid, and concrete to smother these reactors, to entomb them forever.

This is what the Soviets did in 1986, calling out the Red Air Force and sandbagging the reactor with over 5,000 tons of concrete and sand.

We have not yet hit the point of no return. But when we do, I think the only option left is this one.