Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Sierra Oscar

maquiladora wrote: »

Kazuaki Nagata of The Japan Times :

Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry ordered TEPCO to pour water into Fukushima's No.4 reactor's spent fuel pool as quickly as possible.

The order was issued at 10pm on March 15, and it says the water needs to be poured to prevent potential disaster.

One wonders why they not doing this already, and why TEPCO had to be actually "ordered"?

opinion guy

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

One wonders why they not doing this already, and why TEPCO had to be actually "ordered"?

Yes I have to say I have my doubts about TEPCO management

maquiladora

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

One wonders why they not doing this already, and why TEPCO had to be actually "ordered"?

Too dangerous it seems...

Due to high radiation levels at the No. 4 reactor, workers on Tuesday were unable to prepare for the pouring of water into the troubled pool. Difficult conditions have led the utility to evacuate around 730 of the 800 workers from the site, according to TEPCO.

The firm said its workers were only able to remain in the central control rooms at the Fukushima plant for 10 minutes to avoid exposure to excessive radiation levels. They have retreated to a remote site to monitor data on the reactors, it added.

andrew

Overheal wrote: »

.106 Sv

From this chart, if a worker got sick, they got a lot more than .106 Sv

Hank Scorpio

It was a bit disturbing watching the ustream videos last night of geigers, the guy hosting it went into abit of a panic when the spike came in

Rob A. Bank

"Five hundred bone marrow transplant centres across Europe are being asked to be on standby to treat Japanese radiation victims if the need arises."

"Professor Ray Powles, chair of the nuclear accident committee for EBMT, said it may be that between 20 and 30 workers at the nuclear Fukushima plant who are striving to contain the radiation will need treatment. It is too early to tell yet, but it is better to be prepared."

"If workers have been exposed to harmful levels of radiation then we have a few days before they will get ill to plan their treatment.
"They might just need antibiotics or they might need antibiotics and other drugs as well as blood and platelets. It's not that dissimilar to treating leukaemia."
"The treatment would largely be supportive care to manage the damaging effects of the radiation exposure. A few may require bone marrow transplants."

Quotes from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12744926

maquiladora

andrew wrote: »

From this chart, if a worker got sick, they got a lot more than .106 Sv

The utility firm said later in the day the massive radiation amount of 400 millisievert per hour, or 400,000 microsievert, was recorded around debris in front of the No. 3 reactor and that the material may have come from the nearby No. 4 reactor.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78352.html

Donal Og O Baelach

Thrill wrote: »

Japans nuclear crisis "is an apocalypse", says EU Energy Commissioner

Little wonder people are confused. Media hype is always likely with Sky, Fox, etc, but this kind of statement form the EU?

I think many of these guys are still thinking in economic rather than compassionate terms - this radiation leak may well be an economic apocalypse for Japan - with obvious knock on effects for europe.

But as someone has already stated, this is a serious distracting from the media coverage of the tragedy of the Tsunami and quake - a coverage which is very necessary if people are to react in a compassionate way to the human tragedy (i.e. - send relief funds)

andrew

A really good summary of the state of each reactor etc. (in table form) as of 19:00 15/03/2011

Turtwig

andrew wrote: »

Does that equate to 1.06Sv? or do you mean 1060mSV? From what i've heard, 1Sv (1,000mSv) is when people get sick

Apologies mate, was reading other stuff. Overheal is correct with .106 Sv. It is the only confirmed dosage level that I've seen at the moment. Plant levels did briefly exceed this of course and there is also the factor that some workers have been exposed to minute amounts of radiation now for well over 72 hours.

Rob A. Bank

The utility firm said later in the day the massive radiation amount of 400 millisievert per hour, or 400,000 microsievert, was recorded around debris in front of the No. 3 reactor and that the material may have come from the nearby No. 4 reactor.

400 millisievert per hour... wow that is high.

I wonder if it means there are spent rods littered about the place ?

I was listening to a Japanese engineer who said that spent rods are stored in each of the reactor buildings before being sent for reprocessing. Those explosions may have scattered them around.

I pity the workers trying to keep the firetrucks pumping.

Dempsey

1823: The BBC's Chris Hogg in Tokyo says there are now believed to have been four blasts at Fukushima. The fourth reportedly occured in reactor four, where spent fuel rods are stored, he says.

Not good. Is there any update on 5 and 6?

Thrill

Dempsey wrote: »

Not good. Is there any update on 5 and 6?

6pm: The latest news on the state of each of the reactors in the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant:

• No 1: Cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, hydrogen explosion, seawater pumped in.


• No 2: Cooling failure, seawater pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, damage to containment system, potential meltdown feared.


• No 3: Cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater pumped in, hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby.


• No 4: Under maintenance when quake struck, fire caused possibly by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, pool water level feared receding.


• No 5: Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising at spent fuel pool.


• No 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising at spent fuel pool.

yoganmahew

ART6 wrote: »

Before and after photos here

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

God help those poor people.

Thanks for that... um scroll down to the Fukushima one...

yoganmahew

Thrill wrote: »

6pm: The latest news on the state of each of the reactors in the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant:

• No 1: Cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, hydrogen explosion, seawater pumped in.


• No 2: Cooling failure, seawater pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, damage to containment system, potential meltdown feared.


• No 3: Cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater pumped in, hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby.


• No 4: Under maintenance when quake struck, fire caused possibly by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, pool water level feared receding.


• No 5: Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising at spent fuel pool.


• No 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising at spent fuel pool.

Is it possible that the problem has been with the spent fuel pools all along? Are these as tough as the rest of the reactor?

uprising2

Japan braces for potential radiation catastrophe

The crisis appeared to escalate late in the day when the operators of the facility said one of two blasts had blown a hole in the building housing a reactor, which meant spent nuclear fuel was exposed to the atmosphere.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/us-japan-quake-idUSTRE72A0SS20110315

The wind is blowing from the north meaning any fallout will head in the general direction of Tokyo, contaminating millions possibly.

Getting worse by the minute at this stage, the Japanese govt are still in a state of denial I think, knowing it's going to hit the fan, yet hoping it won't, the whole nuclear power world are playing it down.
Japan would have or should have had the most up to date safety systems available, and most earthquake proof installlations, at this stage I think they're on the verge of being fukked.

ollie1

Is it snowing in Japan at the moment? saw news report on RTE and looked like it was? Radioactive snow can't be good

andrew

If there was fallout, then it'd be a better thing if it was taken from the air by snow rather than being carried far on the wind.

mike65

Looks like its time to get the sand and concrete mix out.

Turtwig

andrew wrote: »

If there was fallout, then it'd be a better thing if it was taken from the air by snow rather than being carried far on the wind.

Snow actually makes it worse though because it increases the concentration of radiation at ground levels.

Rob A. Bank

uprising2 wrote: »

The wind is blowing from the north meaning any fallout will head in the general direction of Tokyo, contaminating millions possibly.

I doubt it...

http://www.weather-forecast.com/locations/Iwaki/forecasts/latest

Here is the 9 day forecast for Iwaki, the closest city to the nuclear plant.

Note the wind direction... as long as there is a westerly component to the wind, the plume will be blown out over the ocean where it should disperse without damaging humans.

Luckily the wind is in a favorable direction, except for a few short periods in the next nine days. ie Tonight, Friday afternoon and Sunday morning

This is one of the few breaks nature has given the unfortunate Japanese.

gargleblaster

yes but, from the article

Officials in Tokyo -- 240 km (150 miles) to the south of the plant -- said radiation in the capital was 10 times normal at one point but was not a threat to human health in the sprawling high-tech city of 13 million people.

Toxicologist Lee Tin-lap at the Chinese University of Hong Kong said such a radiation level was not an immediate threat to people but the long-term consequences were unknown.

"You are still breathing this into your lungs, and there is passive absorption in the skin, eyes and mouth and we really do not know what long-term impact that would have," Lee told Reuters by telephone.


link to the japanese red cross
http://www.jrc.or.jp/english/index.html

andyseadog

sorry, theres been nearly 20 pages since i stopped reading last night. could anyone give me a brief summary?

andrew

andyseadog wrote: »

sorry, theres been nearly 20 pages since i stopped reading last night. could anyone give me a brief summary?

a brief summary

gbee

andyseadog wrote: »

sorry, theres been nearly 20 pages since i stopped reading last night. could anyone give me a brief summary?

Fukushima No1 Plant is now referred to as Fukushima Daiichi

Fukushima N0.2 Plant in now refereed to as Fukushima Daini

They are reading radiation in different units.

Instantly lethal doses of radiation have been reported from all this renaming conventions. Officially, no long term harm to health.

dreamer_ire

Some good news for one family
"SOMA, Japan — Rescuers pulled a 70-year-old woman from her toppled home Tuesday, four days after Japan's massive tsunami struck."

http://ht.ly/4f2rU

NYTimes photo story of the tragedy. 100 photos which sum up some of the good news and the personal disasters. One of them has really effected me, it shows a mother and father with the body of their daughter who had died. Distressing stuff

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/12/world/asia/20110312_japan.html#1

Turtwig

andyseadog wrote: »

sorry, theres been nearly 20 pages since i stopped reading last night. could anyone give me a brief summary?

Little if any change.

Search and Rescue and Recovery operations still underway.

Nuclear Situation that is wrongfully overshadowing just about everything else.
Units, I and III of Daiichi seem to be under control.

Unit II is being monitored amid an explosion in the suppression chamber which is housed between primary containment and secondary containment. It won't be clear for at least another 12 hours if the primary was damaged or not.Initials signs are that it wasn't. Fingers Crossed.

There was a fire in Unit IV which is believed to have been caused by a lubricant oil leak. The fire was quickly brought under control but radiation levels briefly spiked at this time due to exposure of the spent fuel pool. They have since receded back to lower levels.

Units V and VI spent fuel pools continue to warm for an unknown reason, they are however as of present (13:52 GMT my last reliable update) not a threat.

Axe Rake

Was just watching a german news channel and the live reporter in Japan reported that they are now fearing explosions at reactor No.5 and No.6 as well

dreamer_ire

dreamer_ire wrote: »

Some good news for one family
"SOMA, Japan — Rescuers pulled a 70-year-old woman from her toppled home Tuesday, four days after Japan's massive tsunami struck."

http://ht.ly/4f2rU

NYTimes photo story of the tragedy. 100 photos which sum up some of the good news and the personal disasters. One of them has really effected me, it shows a mother and father with the body of their daughter who had died. Distressing stuff

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/12/world/asia/20110312_japan.html#1

I had to turn the tv off, I couldnt look at some of the scenes, some so distressing some so poignant

Big thanks to some of you, keeping us informed. Im finding your explanations easier than the telly.

So thanks for the updates and explanations.