Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

maquiladora

Any news on the water cannon truck they brought to the plant last night? Heard they wanted to use it on the spent fuel pool as soon as possible.

Turtwig

And things just took a serious turn for the worse.:(

U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Chairman Gregory Jaczko told members of Congress today that there is no water remaining in the fuel pool at reactor 4 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. Jaczko told members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee that "we believe that secondary containment has been destroyed and there is no water in the spent fuel pool radiation levels are extremely high, which could impact the ability to take corrective measures."

th3 s1aught3r

The chief of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission says all the coolant is gone from one of the spent fuel pools at the Fukushima Daiichi No 4 reactor, meaning it is baking hot and will without extremely rapid intervention, melt down. :eek:

This is not being alarmist, but factual. If ‘hot’ nuclear fuel rods and other highly radioactive contaminants are released from effective coolant enclosure they burn, and melt, and the process which will continue over a prolonged period and can be punctuated by violent explosions attributed to hydrogen gas ignitions.

maquiladora

Malty_T wrote: »

And things just took a serious turn for the worse.:(

Yeah, posted that earlier.

I read the pool there also contains the rods from the reactor along with the spent fuel rods because no. 4 reactor was undergoing maintenance at the time the quake hit.

geetar

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

The chief of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission says all the coolant is gone from one of the spent fuel pools at the Fukushima Daiichi No 4 reactor, meaning it is baking hot and will without extremely rapid intervention, melt down. :eek:

This is not being alarmist, but factual. If ‘hot’ nuclear fuel rods and other highly radioactive contaminants are released from effective coolant enclosure they burn, and melt, and the process which will continue over a prolonged period and can be punctuated by violent explosions attributed to hydrogen gas ignitions.

i was given the impression that the spent fuel rods were around 60 celcius. the melting point of uranium is 1100C, id say it could take some time for it tp melt, hopefully they can sort it out before then

Thrill

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

The chief of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission says all the coolant is gone from one of the spent fuel pools at the Fukushima Daiichi No 4 reactor, meaning it is baking hot and will without extremely rapid intervention, melt down. :eek:

This is not being alarmist, but factual. If ‘hot’ nuclear fuel rods and other highly radioactive contaminants are released from effective coolant enclosure they burn, and melt, and the process which will continue over a prolonged period and can be punctuated by violent explosions attributed to hydrogen gas ignitions.

Jaczko would not say how he knew this and the Japanese say he is mistaken.

whatstherush

The Nuclear Energy Institute have released a Fact Sheet about the used nuclear storage at Fukushima and a What Could Happen During an Accident? section
http://resources.nei.org/documents/japan/Used_Fuel_Pools_Key_Facts_March_16_Update.pdf

Turtwig

geetar wrote: »

i was given the impression that the spent fuel rods were around 60 celcius. the melting point of uranium is 1100C, id say it could take some time for it tp melt, hopefully they can sort it out before then

Yeah but the problem is that water acts as the coolant and shielding for the spent fuel. So cooling them down, isn't going to be easy. Yes, it should still be contained, but how exactly they'll achieve it isn't quite clear. Radiation levels near the pool will be dangerously high if the all the water is gone. The only thing on their side is that melting of the spent fuel rods is much harder to occur. All they need to do is get water on top of them.:(

Edit : Whattherush that update is old, it's still saying no drainage has occurred.

th3 s1aught3r

Thrill wrote: »

Jaczko would not say how he knew this and the Japanese say he is mistaken.

Its strange that the US is now being openly critical of the Japanese authorities

maquiladora

Thrill wrote: »

Jaczko would not say how he knew this and the Japanese say he is mistaken.

"the NRC and U.S. Department of Energy both have experts on site at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex of six reactors."

Turtwig

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Its strange that the US is now being openly critical of the Japanese authorities

They need to convince their own public that their Nuclear Power System is safe. Honestly, I'm getting really pissed off at some people down playing the incident saying it's not that serious but such a situation would never occur with OUR nuclear power safety rules, and others saying this is the apocalypse this is the end, Nuclear power is the scourge blah blah It's gonna take a few years to find out exactly what did happen. Quit trying to take pot shots at the other side and work together ffs to resolve the crisis. Honestly, France and the U.S have been very disappointing imo. And Germany just shut down a eight of its reactors for nothing.

peasant

Malty_T wrote: »

And Germany just shut down a eight of its reactors for nothing.

Just on a side note ...this shut down was a decision by the previous red-green governement, subsequently overturned by Merkels governement and now overtaken by events and reversed again.

(there are elections coming up in Germany ...keeping controversial nuclear reactors running in the face of the catastrophy in Japan is not good electioneering, especially not as these controversial, old reactors are of a similar type and construction)

Rob A. Bank

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Its strange that the US is now being openly critical of the Japanese authorities

Im glad someone is cutting through the crap and spin.

Tepco was constantly minimizing the risk from this disaster and picking the most optimistic interpretation of events. Even when with the evidence of your eyes could see huge explosions, which must have disrupted all kinds of systems and opened the fuel pools to the air, they were claming all was fine and no significant radiation.

And on this side of the world asshol*s like Malcom Grimston from Chatham House telling bare faced lies on Sky news, trying to obscure the truth.

Im so glad the Yanks are involved now.

Turtwig

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Im so glad the Yanks are involved now.

But if the yanks don't reveal how they know the water levels of Unit IV spent fuel pools why should we trust them?

Raskolnikov

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12765859

Has anyone seen this video - it looks like authorities have abandoned survivors inside the evacuation zone.

Hank Scorpio

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Tepco was constantly minimizing the risk from this disaster and picking the most optimistic interpretation of events

Thats what they should be doing instead of causing huge amounts of panic, its easy to forget about the earthquake and tsunamis causing havoc and just focus on the nuclear situation

Its not like they can come out and say the worst case scenario without examining the situation

Rob A. Bank

Malty_T wrote: »

But if the yanks don't reveal how they know the water levels of Unit IV spent fuel pools why should we trust them?

They have fewer motives to lie about this incident than the company or the Japanese government.

th3 s1aught3r

The US have a team on the ground since this morning and they are obviously very worried by what they found there

Thrill

maquiladora wrote: »

"the NRC and U.S. Department of Energy both have experts on site at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex of six reactors."

But he still would not say how he knew. Yes, they have people there but how do they know there is no water? What did they do that led them to determine that the reactor has no water? Jaczko wouldn't say, which I find odd.

Rob A. Bank

nuxxx wrote: »

Th
Its not like they can come out and say the worst case scenario without examining the situation

Anyone with half a brain could see they were being economical with the truth. They have destroyed their own credibility and that of the nuclear industry by not being truthful.

Turtwig

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

They have fewer motives to lie about this incident than the company or the Japanese government.

I think you missed my point. Thus far Tepco have been extremely rational accurate and forth coming in my view. Now the US enters the foray, provides information that is critical to disaster management and won't divulge how they obtained this information. That's quite pathetic. Tepco's workers have a maximum of 15 mins in around their work area to get their sh1t done then retreat, decontaminate and go back in again. This time is scarce for examining every facet of the plant. Not to mention they absolutely are shattered.
Any information that anyone knows ought to be shared. What if the workers at the plant over looked something simple?

Hank Scorpio

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Anyone with half a brain could see they were being economical with the truth. They have destroyed their own credibility and that of the nuclear industry by not being truthful.

I agree but i doubt its standard procedure to come out and say it until the latest time possible

123balltv

Germany has no earthquakes or Tsumanis
Germany is propably the safest place on earth to build reactors.

th3 s1aught3r

Jaczko says the radiation levels near the reactor are dangerously high and estimates 50 mile evacuation. I guess the US team are taking their own readings on the ground

Birroc

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

They have fewer motives to lie about this incident than the company or the Japanese government.

Has Godzilla been spotted yet?

Raskolnikov

Malty_T wrote: »

Thus far Tepco have been extremely rational accurate and forth coming in my view.

Tepco have been slammed by the local press, foreign governments and even by their own Prime Minister, I am quite frankly astounded that you have confidence in these clowns. Did you see the bumbling press conference where they apologised and completely evaded the simple questions they were being asked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFPXxFPahX4

The Tepco management make the BP guys look good.

Topper Harley01

I think it is worth pointing out that any statements by either the Japanese or US authorities could potentially influence the stock markets to the tune of billions.

Worth keeping that in mind when judging the situation.

Axe Rake

123balltv wrote: »

Germany has no earthquakes or Tsumanis
Germany is propably the safest place on earth to build reactors.

Chernobyl, Ukraine.

th3 s1aught3r

Topper Harley01 wrote: »

I think it is worth pointing out that any statements by either the Japanese or US authorities could potentially influence the stock markets to the tune of billions.

Worth keeping that in mind when judging the situation.

US stocks got slammed today. Japan will be opening soon, most likely well down

Turtwig

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Tepco have been slammed by the local press, foreign governments and even by their own Prime Minister, I am quite frankly astounded that you have confidence in these clowns. Did you see the bumbling press conference where they apologised and completely evaded the simple questions they were being asked.
<Youtube>[/YOUTUBE]

The Tepco management make the BP guys look good.

I haven't actually watch any press conference in full, the constant translating was doing my head in and was mostly always reaffirming old news. I just read their press release statements on their websites and these were as it turns out a rather reliable source of information.Certainly better than Sky, Reuters and NHK were.