Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Rob A. Bank

Malty_T wrote: »

If the reactor design at Fukushima was just as inadequate as Chernobyl there would three reactors on fire, the rate of reaction in each of those reactors would be continuously increasing and there would have huge primary containment explosion and core exposure by now. Chernobyl was really a sh1it piece of engineering and should NOT be compared to this situation.

Correct me if I am wrong... but are there not four reactors in deep sh*t here ?

Turtwig

Raskolnikov wrote: »

The Chernobyl reactor had design flaws but the reason it exploded was because technicians threw out the operation manual, ignoring all warnings and disabling safety checks and backups.

This really deserves a different thread because we are getting off topic.

The reactor blew up is because it was pretty much designed to. Loss of coolant in the reactor meant it would become more reactive and in turn hotter boiling away all remaining coolant. This was a design decision to favour cheap fuel production over safety. Fukushima which was built before Chernobyl is not designed the same way. The plant's so called primary containment was consisted of bitumen a known combustible substance. Technicians will always make mistakes, there will always be human errors, but when those happen you expect your design to contain the disaster not make it worse. Honestly, Chernobyl, is really really depressing the reactor design was terrible and technicians blatant disregard for safety was appalling. :mad:

th3 s1aught3r

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong... but are there not four reactors in deep sh*t here ?

I was wondering the same. If one goes up , will the lot go ?

Thrill

nuxxx wrote: »

Seems like there hasnt been any solid updates for a while, anyone got any news on the state of each reactor?

White steam coming from 2,3 and 4.

Turtwig

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong... but are there not four reactors in deep sh*t here ?

You know what I meant mate. If these reactors were of Chernobyl type design then when the SOE was declared on Friday there would have been explosion after explosion after explosion spilling high intense volumes of radiation into the atmosphere.


Actually, latest info is that the reactors are fine in a relative sense. It's the spent fuel pools at Unit IV that is the concern now.

Ickle Magoo

From the BBC site:

It should be noted that the Tokyo Electric Power Company has a poor record on revealing the extent of problems at its nuclear facilities. In 2002, senior executives were forced to resign after the government disclosed that they had covered up a large series of cracks and other damage to reactors. In 2006, the firm admitted it had been falsifying data about coolant materials in its plants.

That doesn't fill me with confidence tbh...

andrew

Chernobyl happened because, coincidentally enough, the operators wanted to know how the reactor would respond to a station blackout of the kind seen following the earthquake in Japan. So Chernobyl is how a poorly designed reactor responds to a station blackout. Fukushima is how a well designed reactor responds to a blackout. Or was until the Tsunami hit it.

Thrill

Live footage of the plant on nhk now.......

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

peasant

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong... but are there not four reactors in deep sh*t here ?

It's actually six reactors in trouble.

The other two, so far undamaged, also have no coolant circulating around their spent fuel anymore and the spent fuel is slowly heating up.

It's just that the spent fuel in those tanks was colder (older) to start with, there seem to be no leaks in the tanks and the coolant hasn't evaporated (yet)

Only a matter of time though ...posibly (hopefully) they will restore cooling before these two become critical/exposed as well

Thrill

double post

Micky Dolenz

I'd like to tip my hat at ye good people.

A very informative thread, a real credit to AH.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Rob A. Bank

peasant wrote: »

It's actually six reactors in trouble.

The other two, so far undamaged, also have no coolant circulating around their spent fuel anymore and the spent fuel is slowly heating up.

It's just that the spent fuel in those tanks was colder (older) to start with, there seem to be no leaks in the tanks and the coolant hasn't evaporated (yet)

Only a matter of time though ...posibly (hopefully) they will restore cooling before these two become critical/exposed as well

I was listening to Japanese TV earlier and they said that one pump and generator was working in units 5 and 6, which they were using to top up the water there. Those 2 reactors are physically seperated from the ones that are in serious trouble by about 500 meters.

Hopefully they will be able to keep them watered... God knows they have enough on their plate already.

jackiebaron

Saadyst is very quiet now.

Tokyo airport is chokka with people trying to split. The Americans are in a tizzy (and they're the biggest liars of all)...radiation leaks are on the up and effects are being felt but according to Saadyst "Ernest Rutherford" the radiation is less than you get from a polaroid flash or some shït!

Fumigate us with your wisdom, saadyst......and your statistics that show that a glow in the dark watch gives off more radiation than a Berryllium-Polonium ball of death!

Run_to_da_hills

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

From the BBC site:



That doesn't fill me with confidence tbh...

I think most of us ware well aware of this last Monday even without reading the BBC report.

I hope the Japanese people now adhere to the recommended US 50 mile exclusion zone instead of what they were initially told. The only problem is that many may now not have transport.

maquiladora

"
THE Japanese owner of the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant falsified safety data and "dishonestly" tried to cover up problems there.

Tokyo Electric Power Co injected air into the containment vessel of Fukushima reactor No 1 to artificially “lower the leak rate”. When caught, the company expressed its “sincere apologies for conducting dishonest practices”.
The misconduct came to light in 2002 after whistleblowers working for General Electric, which designed the reactor, complained to the Japanese government. Another GE employee later confessed that he had falsified records of inspections of reactor No1 in 1989 - at the request of TEPCO officials. He also admitted to falsifying other inspection reports, also on request of the client. After that incident TEPCO was forced to shut down 17 reactors, albeit temporarily."

theaustralian.com.au/fukushima-nuclear-plant-owner-falsified-inspection-records/story-fn84naht-1226023073141

With a history like that I certainly wouldn't be reading their own press releases as my only source of information on what's happening.

Hopefully the current management do things a bit differently now!

Thrill

Tokyo Electric says getting ready to inject water into reactor No.3 at Fukushima Daiichi

Run_to_da_hills

US Military has offered an unmanned drone to fly over / photograph / assess the damage / hottest areas etc. CNN.

Thrill

FLASH: Japan nuclear agency says radioactivity levels continue to decline at Fukushima nuclear plant


Japan nuclear agency: 8 staff members taking radiation readings at crippled nuclear plant in shifts


.

Rob A. Bank

The callous calculations about the poor guys who are up against it in the nuclear plant.

"The crews are not necessarily made up of strong young men.

Emergency nuclear scenarios suggest asking older retirees to volunteer, not because they're more expendable, or even because they're more skilled, but because even if they're exposed to massive amounts of radiation, history has shown they would die of old age before they die of radiation induced cancers, which can take decades to develop."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/fukushima-50-line-defense-japanese-nuclear-complex/story?id=13147746

maquiladora

Just heard they are going to try the helicopter method again for water delivery to the reactors.

Edit : they have started dropping water on no. 3 reactor.

Thrill

Live on nhk. Helicopter over the plant now. Two more helicopters on the way.

uprising2

That water drop didn't look too convincing.

maquiladora

Hopefully the helicopter method will do the trick for no. 3 and the water cannon will work with no. 4 long enough until they get this new power line up and running.

Fingers crossed.

ilovesleep

Can we send brian cowen over to help? With the amout of lard he is carrying, he'd be well protected from radiation.

andrew

Is the water drop on 3 for 3's fuel rod pond too?

maquiladora

andrew wrote: »

Is the water drop on 3 for 3's fuel rod pond too?

Yes it seems so.

uprising2

I think they're pissing into the wind to be honest, 7.5 tons of water being dropped could do more damage to the reactor.

uprising2

uprising2 wrote: »

That water drop didn't look too convincing.

2nd was a lot worse FFS?

Stinicker

ilovesleep wrote: »

Can we send brian cowen over to help? With the amout of lard he is carrying, he'd be well protected from radiation.

There would be the danger he might mutate into some Godzilla like creature, or worse still give political advise further worsening the situation. He would do well in the Sumo Wrestling though I reckon. A containment zone around Clara minimising his risk to everyone would be the best bet I think

andrew

looks like they're dropping water on 3 and 4?