Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

3ndahalfof6

Vanuatu has been hit again with a M5.8 its the 3rd one in a short space of time, the energy has to go to some where.

3ndahalfof6

gbee wrote: »

Just saw the attempts at water dropping, one of three seemed to be a reasonable attempt but it looked like it missed, the next two, look like they not only missed the reactor, but almost the the plant itself.

Four operations completed by air drop. Riot water canon in place.

Well considering they were going to do 100 to 200 passes and only did 4 it tells a story.

Mr Benevolent

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Well considering they were going to do 100 to 200 passes and only did 4 it tells a story.

The riot cannon sounds equally bad, a bit like pissing on the reactor.

Jimmy Garlic

Confab wrote: »

The riot cannon sounds equally bad, a bit like pissing on the reactor.

pissing on a bonfire.

gbee

Confab wrote: »

The riot cannon sounds equally bad, a bit like pissing on the reactor.

Not sure, I think it has a good chance of success, except it needs to be in the right position and as its spray hits the target, which I'm sure it would, it will cause a radiation spike which will have to engulf the vehicle or vehicles in very high doses.

It sounds like they had been trying to calculate the distance but for the trucks to be effective they need to be almost inside the outer containment building remains.

From yesterday's satellite photos they need to be seaward for best effect, if they can get there and upto recently this would mean being in the radiation plump as the wind is blowing out to sea.

3ndahalfof6

OK guys i'm hitting the hay for a couple of hrs its paddies day, to be honest I don't think much of it but I am using it to get a day off work, so i can keep up on what is happening.

I do think today will be pivotal how this scenario turns out.

Chad ghostal

update starting on NHK in a second, hopefully with some good news, as it's 6pm and almost completely dark

Mr Benevolent

Chad ghostal wrote: »

update starting on NHK in a second, hopefully with some good news, as it's 6pm and almost completely dark

Keep us updated.

gbee

9:48 self defence helicopter forces have started spraying water onto number N0.3 reactor at Fukushima Dai-ichi. Four operations completed so far. It may help cool the reactor and spent fuel but would hope to do many more flights but the safety of his men would need to be assessed.

Tokyo warned about possible and sudden power outages tonight [in Japan].

3ndahalfof6

gbee wrote: »

Not sure, I think it has a good chance of success, except it needs to be in the right position and as its spray hits the target, which I'm sure it would, it will cause a radiation spike which will have to engulf the vehicle or vehicles in very high doses.

It sounds like they had been trying to calculate the distance but for the trucks to be effective they need to be almost inside the outer containment building remains.

From yesterday's satellite photos they need to be seaward for best effect, if they can get there and upto recently this would mean being in the radiation plump as the wind is blowing out to sea.

think about it your on a push bike, a motor bike, a fast car, your on the ground passing a burning building trying to spray water on it to help to put it out,

now your in the air with the same situation, wind blowing ****ting yourself bout the rad situ, will it be effective

gbee

Unclear on this report myself, it seems that power is available at the plant but the existing electric motors are damaged by sea water so they need to bring in 'make shift' motors.

Chad ghostal

gbee wrote: »

Unclear on this report myself, it seems that power is available at the plant but the existing electric motors are damaged by sea water so they need to bring in 'make shift' motors.

Yep, this is what I got from it too, they are just using the 'make shift' pumps until they clean the normal pumps properly.

The news report didn't really give any new information, which is pretty worrying. It's been hours now without a proper update, despite the confidence of that dude this morning (forgot his name), it didn't look like the water was having much of an effect this afternoon.

maquiladora

Chad ghostal wrote: »

They are not getting people out because of any specific danger, but due to food/fuel shortages in Tokyo and other areas.

Have you read the travel warning?

Travel Warning
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of Consular Affairs

Japan
March 16, 2011

The U.S. Department of State warns U.S citizens of the deteriorating situation at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant. The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) recommends that U.S. citizens who live within 50 miles (80 kilometers) of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant evacuate the area or take shelter indoors if safe evacuation is not practical. The State Department strongly urges U.S. citizens to defer travel to Japan at this time and those in Japan should consider departing. On March 16, 2011, the Department of State authorized the voluntary departure from Japan of eligible family members of U.S. government personnel in Tokyo, Nagoya, and Yokohama. This Travel Warning replaces the Travel Alert dated March 13, 2011.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_japan.html

The very first line of the warning is about the deteriorating situation at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant. The second line is about the exclusion zone. The third line is the travel warning.

Why on earth would they word the statement like that if the Fukushima situation is not the primary reason for the warning?

Chad ghostal

maquiladora wrote: »

Why on earth would they word the statement like that if the Fukushima situation is not the primary reason for the warning?

I had read that. It refers to the danger to people inside the 80km but also of the problems caused by the problems in Fukushima, to the people of Tokyo as the reasons for the evacuation i.e. not a direct immediate radiation risk for the people of Tokyo. If there was a direct risk, they would be telling their citizens to get out, not assisting them.

Ickle Magoo

Radiation readings from 20km+ around Fukushima plant...

http://www.mext.go.jp/component/a_menu/other/detail/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2011/03/17/1303727_05_1.pdf

jackiebaron

Interesting article here about how TEPCO chintzed on it's choice of reactor and went for GE's substandard MARK I.

http://www.truth-out.org/safety-cheap68492

Chad ghostal

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Radiation readings from 20km+ around Fukushima plant...

http://www.mext.go.jp/component/a_menu/other/detail/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2011/03/17/1303727_05_1.pdf

Unless I'm reading this wrong (highly possible) they all seem very low, it's μSv and the max is 80, which afaict Tokyo experienced a few days ago and is pretty much nothing (i could be deliriously optimistic at this stage)

maquiladora

REU: Hong Kong government says that its residents should leave Tokyo as soon as possible or at least move to southern parts of Japan.

Japanese Chief Cabinet Sect'y telling everyone to hang in there, knows how difficult the various crises are for the people. - VOA

Ickle Magoo

Chad ghostal wrote: »

Unless I'm reading this wrong (highly possible) they all seem very low, it's μSv and the max is 80, which afaict Tokyo experienced a few days ago and is pretty much nothing (i could be deliriously optimistic at this stage)

That's how I read it too. The question is what the situation would be if the wind changed direction and how likely that is to happen?

Chad ghostal

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

That's how I read it too. The question is what the situation would be if the wind changed direction and how likely that is to happen?

This is how the nytime sees it: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/science/plume-graphic.html?ref=science

NHK are giving the same type of wind forecast (out to sea) for the next few days.

maquiladora

Japan nuclear agency: Cannot confirm if water is covering spent fuel rods at Fukushima no.4 reactor - Reuters

Edano press conference now, reporters are asking him if the plan to use police water cannon has been abandoned since it hasn't started yet and its getting dark there. Edano says the police are doing their best under the circumstances there.

3ndahalfof6

http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/

maquiladora

#Japan latest numbers: 5,457 dead; 9,508 missing; 2,409 injured RIP #prayforjapan

So terrible.

gbee

As predicted here already, water tankers retreat due to high radiation, no water canon procedures implemented.

maquiladora

NHK saying now the plan to spray water from the police water cannons has been halted. Pressure wasn't strong enough for the water to reach the fire & radiation too high, police have evacuated the area.

Now the SDF will try bringing 5 of their water cannons to try instead.

Mr Benevolent

maquiladora wrote: »

NHK saying now the plan to spray water from the police water cannons has been halted. Pressure wasn't strong enough for the water to reach the fire & radiation too high, police have evacuated the area.

Now the SDF will try bringing 5 of their water cannons to try instead.

What will they do when that fails? At least if the No. 4 spent fuel pool melts the reactor below it isn't fuelled.

cherryghost

Things are looking dire by the minute

maquiladora

Confab wrote: »

What will they do when that fails? At least if the No. 4 spent fuel pool melts the reactor below it isn't fuelled.

I dunno to be honest. I suppose we have the hope of the new power line restoing power to the plant.

If the SDF water cannons have higher pressure I dont know why they didn't try using them first instead of the police ones.

I think the fuel from the reactor at No. 4 is actually in the pool too because there was maintenance work going on at the time of the quake.

maquiladora

cherryghost wrote: »

Things are looking dire by the minute

At least there wasn't that predicted 7+ aftershock.

Hoping to hear good news on power being restored to the plant.

maquiladora

NHK says SDF has started spraying water on No.3 reactor.