Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

hmmm

Malty_T wrote: »

Mar 16? That was yesterday?? Jesus fucking christ unless that's from a military helicopter with shielding they're extremely lucky they didn't die! One of the biggest dangers to helicopters flying over areas of ionising radiation is that the rotor blade will "flush" up radioactive particles in high concentrations into its turbine engine. This has the potential to fry the electronics inside the turbine and kill the engine. If it's a news crew they're really lucky they're didn't record their own death.

I'm told it was a JSDF (military) helicopter. Someone who speaks Japanese might be able to confirm

opinion guy

Brenireland wrote: »

Amazing to see this thread is still on the go,The Tsunami has hit,now its the relief efforts which will take centre stage & lets hope Japan does indeed come back strong after this catastrophe.

It seems the Nuclear situation is the only leg left for this thread to stand on,lets hope they can control the Reactors however/whatever way possible.

Does this thread offend you in some way ? Why wouldn't it keep going ? Its only the biggest disaster and biggest news story of well.....ever! Many of the people post have some personal links to the Japan. I don't currently but I have visited it and hope to visit again. Its an amazing country. One guy a few pages back has a girlfriend in the affected areas. Some are on west coast US and may be affected by any potential fallout. The nuclear issue is the current focus but with some luck that will pass. Regardless I expect this thread will have plenty of reason to keep going for a long while yet.

Thrill

hmmm wrote: »

I'm told it was a JSDF (military) helicopter. Someone who speaks Japanese might be able to confirm

TEPCO released that footage so it was likely taken by JSDF or TEPCO staff. Media has to observe the 30km exclusion zone.

Brenireland

opinion guy wrote: »

Does this thread offend you in some way ? Why wouldn't it keep going ? Its only the biggest disaster and biggest news story of well.....ever! Many of the people post have some personal links to the Japan. I don't currently but I have visited it and hope to visit again. Its an amazing country. One guy a few pages back has a girlfriend in the affected areas. Some are on west coast US and may be affected by any potential fallout. The nuclear issue is the current focus but with some luck that will pass. Regardless I expect this thread will have plenty of reason to keep going for a long while yet.

No I wasn't implying anything of the sort,only it would be handy if a separate thread could be started to deal with the Nuclear situation in Fukushima & could keep everyone up to date.

opinion guy

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Any chance he might be more accurate than yesterday's british 'expert' who said there was no reason to leave Tokyo ?

And I am getting really fed up of the nuclear choirboys namecalling those who are simply trying to find the truth.

You are gettign fed up of the name calling ? Ironic since you are the one thats started it - you've said nuclear choirboys so many times now its how I recognise your posts. And for the record I have been against nuclear power since chernoybl when I was about 10. Being older now and seeing the environmental destruction which our oil based economy wreaks, and also seeing that after the biggest natural disaster in history these plants are still (just about) manageable, my views have shifted decidely more towards the pro-nuclear side of things. But then I understand the issues and how design is important. I haven't solidifed this viewpoint yet as it remains to be seen how this pans out.

Especially since at times you don't even seem to take the time to understand the issues before winding yourself up into a frenzy. If you can't moderate you own fears, can you at least try to be objective in your posts and show a modicum of respect for those who may have people affected by the events. The expert I quoted above, a woman by the way, is hardly a pronuclear fanboy - being a medical expert dealing with the victims of chernobyl. Think before you write please.

maquiladora

hmmm wrote: »

I'm told it was a JSDF (military) helicopter. Someone who speaks Japanese might be able to confirm

I've seen the video being linked to as an SDF helicopter yes. I'd guess its one of the helicopters with shielding that later dumped water there yesterday.

Topper Harley01

hmmm wrote: »

I'm told it was a JSDF (military) helicopter. Someone who speaks Japanese might be able to confirm

Yes, it was a military CH-47 helicopter, better known as a Chinook. They have a lead plate lining the bottom of the helicopter to minimise radiation, and the crew were suited up with NBC suits.

Also, if you watch carefully, the helicopter is always maintaining some forward airspeed/momentum. This means they are always flying into 'clean' air i.e. any recirculating down draft will always be behind them. Also, from the height they were at, I don't think the downdraft would have been particularly strong.

Donal Og O Baelach

opinion guy wrote: »

Its only the biggest disaster and biggest news story of well.....ever!

It's bad enough as it is - no need to exaggerate it.

maquiladora

IAEA press conference starting soon.

"Situation remains very serious" but not significantly worse than yesterday.

"Unit 4 remains a major safety concern". No water temp recorded since March 14th.

No significant change in radiation levels in Tokyo since yesterday. IAEA have received no new information on radiation at the plant since yesterday.

Metallitroll

Brenireland wrote: »

No I wasn't implying anything of the sort,only it would be handy if a separate thread could be started to deal with the Nuclear situation in Fukushima

well.. yeah this thread has become a byword for processing data and relaying information about a nuclear reactor its all a bit desensitized and technical, yes it keeps it ticking over and looks cool and we look clever as opposed to soft but where are the humane opinions of the suffering elsewhere, is that even permitted sometimes i think some people are anticipating a meltdown tbh the thread does not state Nuclear Reactor

i wish to discuss rescue efforts and the like but i even saw a mod encourage the already narrow demograph which was manifesting itself by saying 'stay on topic' as in the reactor. and even accusing one post of trolling when it was clearly a heartfelt muse even when there was crazy tasteless in-bickering all round, untouched

Overheal

Why a Reactor will not become a Bomb

http://gizmodo.com/#!5782770/why-a-nuclear-reactor-will-never-become-a-bomb

Overheal

epic japanese cartoon for worried children

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sakN2hSVxA

vibe666

opinion guy wrote: »

Its only the biggest disaster and biggest news story of well.....ever!

no it isn't and it never will be.

the real disaster is that 5600 people are confirmed dead and many thousands more are still missing, a significant number of which may well have been people who actually survived the quakes & tsunami but were trapped and who have since died waiting to be rescued of either their injuries, starvation or hypothermia whilst the world is waiting for something exciting to happen in fukushima.

anyone who was in this position has almost certainly died since then unless they had access to at least water & a source of heat, so the chances that any of those people have survived this long are almost zero.

even if every worst case scenario possible in fukushima happened all at once, meltdowns & explosions and all, it would still pale into significance compared to the pain and suffering that has already happened and that continues to happen in the rest of japan. many thousands are homeless and have lost everything and its going to be a very long time before they are even able to get back on their feet and years before japan as a nation recovers from what happened.

the one thing chicken little had going for him was that he wasn't looking at the sky shouting whilst at the same time the ground was swallowing people up and the sea was washing them away.

maquiladora

Overheal wrote: »

epic japanese cartoon for worried children

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sakN2hSVxA

I love Japan a little bit more than I did before I watched that.

Turtwig

Overheal wrote: »

epic japanese cartoon for worried children

<youtube Nuclear Boy>

That's brilliant.:D

3ndahalfof6

its been going on so long it allows the laughter to come into it,

i remember earlier in the thread you would of got a ban for that,

but hey its only lives so far away.

Overheal

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

its been going on so long it allows the laughter to come into it,

i remember earlier in the thread you would of got a ban for that,

but hey its only lives so far away.

You may have missed the point of the mod warning. More about not turning it into a lolocaust thread. whiiich as a new boardsie wouldnt make any sense to you nevermind. From being full of tasteless and insensitive remarks, basically.

Interesting data to come across: the radiation leak from Three Mile Island was so minor that it was equivalent to eating 1/75th of a banana.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose

So we can all calm down throw out our bananas.

maquiladora

Malty_T, regarding Jaczko comments.

On Wednesday night, Mr. Jaczko reiterated his earlier statement and added that commission representatives in Tokyo had confirmed that the pool at No. 4 was empty. He said Tokyo Electric and other officials in Japan had confirmed that, and also emphasized that high radiation fields were going to make it very difficult to continue having people work at the plant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/world/asia/18nuclear.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

uprising2

Overheal wrote: »

Why a Reactor will not become a Bomb

http://gizmodo.com/#!5782770/why-a-nuclear-reactor-will-never-become-a-bomb

I don't think too many people are worried about it becoming a bomb, if I remember correctly a bomb needs 80%+ enrichment and a fuel plant need's 5%, it's the leaking of radiation that has everybody worried.

Some of the reports......it's the same amount as an x-ray, but a constant amount, not the couple of seconds you get from an x-ray, it's being played down bigtime.

It's a slow moving train wreck thats going to happen, some say "chicken littles", but the reality is that the 2nd worse nuclear disaster in history is unfolding and could "possibly" become number one due to the proximity of Tokyo and it's dense population, the most advanced nation on the planet "may" even become a wasteland, although nobody really knows, and those who do ain't doing a lot of talking.

The Japanese press conferences are dittering do-little speeches about nothing really, they continually repeat what might,could, possibly, maybe, happening and don't know about the rest.

I'm expecting a meltdown sometime soon, It's a sad thing to say but it's what I believe will happen, looking at some of the pics of the other disasters and put it all together and it's one big mess, people holding their dead relatives hand's while the bodies still trapped, video's of people being washed away, snow, freezing, now possibly radiation poisoning depending on wind direction.

And does anybody know the procedure if meltdown does occur?, what steps are taken to get it under control, sand and cement, concrete?, its on the coast so will it keep contaminating the sea if the sea comes into contact with the contaminated area?

It's a much bigger disaster than some people think/hope, but I honestly can't see the nice outcome that some can, this time next year I expect Japan to be a much changed nation.

maquiladora

'Getting reports that US, UK quake rescue search teams to pull out of Japan due to radiation fears.' - Steve Herman, VOA

gbee

298mSv per hour yet she says "298 microsieverts per hour" :mad: NHK-TV [Upstream]

Overheal

maquiladora wrote: »

'Getting reports that US, UK quake rescue search teams to pull out of Japan due to radiation fears.' - Steve Herman, VOA

And thats when the disaster starts taking on wider repercussions

What about the people who might still be alive in the rubble? I hope they would at least wait until the Search and Rescue phase is complete. Recovery/Cleanup can wait but if people are still alive, they need to be found.

The reactors are about to start claiming an indirect death toll.

Turtwig

Some very good news at last. One of the emergency diesel generators has been brought back on line. This will be used alternately to top up reactors V and VI and keep help their respective spent fuel pools cool.

Let's hope they can get another EDG online.

3ndahalfof6

Overheal wrote: »

You may have missed the point of the mod warning. More about not turning it into a lolocaust thread. whiiich as a new boardsie wouldnt make any sense to you nevermind. From being full of tasteless and insensitive remarks, basically.

Interesting data to come across: the radiation leak from Three Mile Island was so minor that it was equivalent to eating 1/75th of a banana.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose

So we can all calm down throw out our bananas.

no probs i guess sometimes it can become a bit to morbid, I am prob to much involved,

in my head.

Overheal

Malty_T wrote: »

Some very good news at last. One of the emergency diesel generators has been brought back on line. This will be used alternately to top up reactors V and VI and keep help their respective spent fuel pools cool.

Let's hope they can get another EDG online.

I assume the plants primary generators - the ones the reactors actually use to create hundreds of megawatts of grid power - were knocked offline. Otherwise it seems like they could have brought No. 5 or No. 6 online to power the cooling systems for the entire plant.

Turtwig

maquiladora wrote: »

'Getting reports that US, UK quake rescue search teams to pull out of Japan due to radiation fears.' - Steve Herman, VOA

This makes no sense. Out of the zone area around plant maybe, but out of Japan????

Edit : @Overheal that's like playing with fire, the plant was just hit with a magniture 9 earthquake and tsunami. Bringing a nuclear reactor back online without doing all the prerequisite safety inspections is almost akin to suicide. The option of using 5 or 6, to power the cooling systems (if they could be powered) would take two weeks at least.

andrew

uprising2 wrote: »

I'm expecting a meltdown sometime soon, It's a sad thing to say but it's what I believe will happen, looking at some of the pics of the other disasters and put it all together and it's one big mess, people holding their dead relatives hand's while the bodies still trapped, video's of people being washed away, snow, freezing, now possibly radiation poisoning depending on wind direction.

I don't think the fear now is a meltdown in any of the reactors, it's more the possibility that the fuel in the spent fuel tank melts or comes together in some other way such that it becomes critical. That'd be the equivalent of nuclear boy taking a pretty big poo.

Raskolnikov

Overheal wrote: »

What about the people who might still be alive in the rubble? I hope they would at least wait until the Search and Rescue phase is complete. Recovery/Cleanup can wait but if people are still alive, they need to be found.

Temperatures in Japan have been below zero for a few days now. Also, it's nearly a week after the initial wave, so it's unlikely anyone is still alive at this stage with starvation and cold.

Fallschirmjager

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Progress_by_on-site_workers_1703111.html

more here...

gargleblaster

uprising2 wrote: »

And does anybody know the procedure if meltdown does occur?, what steps are taken to get it under control, sand and cement, concrete?, its on the coast so will it keep contaminating the sea if the sea comes into contact with the contaminated area?

not sure what the procedure is, but the radioactive material cools as it comes into contact with the material below it, so it seems unlikely that any of it would reach the sea.