Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Topper Harley01

Overheal wrote: »

You're saying we should use the military to stop the weapons programs to prevent radioactive pollution?

Well those strongly worded condemnations from the UN haven't quite had the effect the international community wanted....

Yes, I think the chance of military action is a real possibility now, before they acquire weapons grade material and attach it to a ballistic missile. IIRC, the Iranian nuclear programme is located underground. Also, this has been done before, as I'm sure you are aware.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

So the obvious options are clear:

1. Act now, and risk some small scale localised contamination.

2. Do nothing, and risk a nuclear attack on a major Western city.

It seems a no-brainer to me.

Overheal

I don't think the internaitonal community is ready to go down that road of striking at nuclear facilities to trigger dirty-bomb scenarios.

That discussion is about 200km off topic though.

andrew

Personally, I'm just really really interested in nuclear accidents. I freaking love them. Obviously, it's terrible that people die...so maybe love is the wrong word. But there are few things I find more interesting. Can't wait to see the documentaries which come outta this.

[to be clear, my interest in nuke accidents < my hope that such accidents don't happen]

Edit:

Any more news WRT the cooling pond at number 4? Does it have any water? Are they trying still to put water in? Radiation levels around no. 4?

Topper Harley01

Ok, back on topic so.

Obama is to hold a live press conference at 3.30 (ET.)

An here's a link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-12

.

xoxyx

Adamantium wrote: »

How many times do we have to irradiate large portions of land (for centuries)and leave populations with huge birth abnormalities to realise nuclear fission isn't worth it? Fusion, thats what we should aspire to, not fission!

.1% chance of something wrong is still wrong!

And i was a fan of nuclear power up until last week because we were all assured that another Chernobyl could never happen again!

Its only when something goes wrong do we realise the huge (totally avoidable) suffering thats caused!

I'd gladly burn fossil fuels 24/7 in order to avoid such a scourge.

Prayers to Japan

Chernobyl hasn't happened again and it's not going to. This is a horrible, horrible disaster, but to blame it on nuclear power is the equivalent of blaming a car crash on cars - especially where the car crash is caused by a tree being unearthed due to high wind (ban trees?).

It's a testament to the high standards that these plants were built to that the damage hasn't been to a much larger scale. The only thing that I can see that may have been an error, in hindsight, was the location of the generators, but this was an unprecedented event and we have learned from it.

I thought it ridiculous when, within days of this occurring, I was hearing talk on the radio of abandoning nuclear power entirely.

I'm in no way downplaying what is happening right now and I've been following it closely and praying for the best the whole way, but to blame nuclear power is just taking the wrong view in my opinion.

Run_to_da_hills

Japan nuclear situation 'serious but stable' (IAEA).

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/2011317163039298409.html

Topper Harley01

Obama: Harmful levels of radiation NOT expected to reach any US territory or mainland.

Turtwig

Topper Harley01 wrote: »

Obama: Harmful levels of radiation NOT expected to reach any US territory or mainland.

Still won't stop idiotic panic buying of iodine. Fingers crossed people don't go crazy on taking them once the radiation reaches US soil. The iodine will do more to harm to them than the radiation.:(

Topper Harley01

Malty_T wrote: »

Still won't stop idiotic panic buying of iodine. Just hope no one takes the tablets when the radiation reaches US soil.:(

I was thinking of putting mine on ebay for 1000 euros, there's always some sucker out there....

gargleblaster

Malty_T wrote: »

Still won't stop idiotic panic buying of iodine. Just hope no one takes the tablets when the radiation reaches US soil.

i'm not sure what you're saying there, could you clarify that please?

Turtwig

gargleblaster wrote: »

i'm not sure what you're saying there, could you clarify that please?

Sure,

Fingers crossed people don't go crazy on taking iodine tablets once the radiation reaches US soil. The iodine will do more to harm to them than the radiation.

tuxy

andrew wrote: »

Personally, I'm just really really interested in nuclear accidents. I freaking love them. Obviously, it's terrible that people die...so maybe love is the wrong word. But there are few things I find more interesting. Can't wait to see the documentaries which come outta this.

I understand what you are saying alright. It reminds me of a question that was on a gender test. (the test could guess your gender after asking a few questions) One of the questions was "True or False, Viewed from a different perspective nuclear war could be quite exciting" If you voted true you were over 90% more likely to be male.

Overheal

Topper Harley01 wrote: »

I was thinking of putting mine on ebay for 1000 euros, there's always some sucker out there....

Well start sensibly, but yes theres west coast consumer panic and some pharmacies and doctors are, shall we say, not downplaying the frenzy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366578/Japan-nuclear-emergency-US-Surgeon-General-warns-prepared-radiation.html

U.S. Surgeon General Regina Benjamin said last night stocking up is not an overreaction and it is right to be prepared as a precaution - in contrast to guidance from state officials.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366578/Japan-nuclear-emergency-US-Surgeon-General-warns-prepared-radiation.html#ixzz1Gt8PQzgl

What an idiot. Video: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surgeon-general-buying-iodide-pills-good-precaution-for-nuclear-fallout/ she waffles and displays no knowledge of what people are panicking about and stocking up on.

Taking Potassium Iodide as a Preventive is a Bad Idea.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/17/surgeon-general-clarifies-potassium-iodide-stateme/

and the ebay price is under 50 bucks for a container of potassium iodide :P

http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=256306

Run_to_da_hills

Topper Harley01 wrote: »

I was thinking of putting mine on ebay for 1000 euros, there's always some sucker out there....

They are worth absolutely nothing if they are 9 years out of date.

yammycat

check out potassium iodide on google trends

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Potassium+iodide

gargleblaster

Malty_T wrote: »

Sure,

Fingers crossed people don't go crazy on taking iodine tablets once the radiation reaches US soil. The iodine will do more to harm to them than the radiation.

thanks. it seems more likely than not that many will do just that.

Thrill

Journalist Wall of Shame

This Wall of Shame is being assembled by various people, many of whom are on the ground in Japan as residents, not temporarily assigned journalists, who are sick of the sensationalist, overly speculative, and just plain bad reporting that has gone on since the Tohoku quake in Japan last Friday (March 11). We feel that contacting each and every publication and reporter every time a bad report shows up is not effective, and it is our sincere hope that this will encourage journalists to aspire to a higher (some would say minimal) level of responsibility in their reports. If you would like to add a report of your own, feel free.

Severity of Offense scores

1 - 2: Probably unintentional, and based on bad info that seemed legit
3 - 4: Not malicious, just misunderstanding of the situation
5 - 6: Reporting without checking easily-confirmed facts; lazy as opposed to malicious OR just dumb fluff piece using human tragedy as a background.
7 - 8: No fact checking; printing rumours as fact; sensational story more important than actual truth
9 : Fear mongering.
10 : Hysterical fear-mongering along with racial/cultural/political bias
11 : Satan

http://jpquake.wikispaces.com/Journalist+Wall+of+Shame


The Sun is on the list with a 9.

Turtwig

Thrill wrote: »

The Sun is on the list with a 9.

It just got upgraded.:D

Some atrocious errors being listed there. :mad:

Run_to_da_hills

Thrill wrote: »

Journalist Wall of Shame





Severity of Offense scores

1 - 2: Probably unintentional, and based on bad info that seemed legit
3 - 4: Not malicious, just misunderstanding of the situation
5 - 6: Reporting without checking easily-confirmed facts; lazy as opposed to malicious OR just dumb fluff piece using human tragedy as a background.
7 - 8: No fact checking; printing rumours as fact; sensational story more important than actual truth
9 : Fear mongering.
10 : Hysterical fear-mongering along with racial/cultural/political bias
11 : Satan

http://jpquake.wikispaces.com/Journalist+Wall+of+Shame


The Sun is on the list with a 9.

The Indo could also be also added to the list.

vibe666

opinion guy wrote: »

Do you people even read the freaking thread ????

yes, but unfortunately due to the pace of the thread and it's close to 4000 posts, i haven't had time to collate the points made by each poster in every post and cross reference them to each new post and memorise it all before replying so apologies for taking that one post at face value.

opinion guy wrote: »

I said this when someone came on and said 'oh is this thread still going'. I meant it in reference to the whole thread and thus the whole event - not the nuclear aspect of it. Its funny you said chicken little because I've been using the thread myself telling people to calm down - including about two posts down from the one I said this in.

and again apologies that i missed the hidden meaning in that particular post, but some of us don't have all day free to examine every thread in minute detail.

since other people on the thread came to the same conclusion as i did about that post, maybe it means you should consider being a little clearer in what you mean as people are likely to take each post on it's own merit?

you don't appear to be all that calm tho now so i guess that chill pill we're all supposed to be taking still hasn't taken effect yet?

Thrill

Radiation levels dropped a little on Thursday at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant after a water injection by pump trucks.

Levels at the west gate of the power plant was down by nearly 20 points to 292 microsieverts per hour at 8.40 PM on Thursday.

At 11 PM the radiation level dropped again to 289 microsieverts per hour.

The company says it saw steam billowing from the No. 3 reactor after the water injection, which suggests the operation had some success.

Rob A. Bank

Does anyone know the dimensions of the spent fuel pools in this type of reactor ?

I read somewhere they contains roughly 2000 metric tons of water, so the addition of 30 tons by the choppers (even if it all went in) would only raise the water level by a few cm.

Judging by the clouds of steam, the water is boiling off far quicker than they can add it using this method.

Are pilots and chopper crews being risked with very little chance of making any meaningful difference to the problem ?

PR stunt or desperation or both ?

Thrill

Webcam showing the terrible weather near Yamagata - 50km Sendai

http://camera.logicbase.jp:5000/CgiStart?page=Single&Language=1

Turtwig

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Does anyone know the dimensions of the spent fuel pools in this type of reactor ?

I read somewhere they contains roughly 2000 metric tons of water, so the addition of 30 tons by the choppers (even if it all went in) would only raise the water level by a few cm.

Judging by the clouds of steam, the water is boiling off far quicker than they can add it using this method.

Are pilots and chopper crews being risked with very little chance of making any meaningful difference to the problem ?

PR stunt or desperation or both ?

I read the dimensions somewhere, can't remember where though.
Water is your shielding for the SFPs the more water you get in there the faster you can get even more water in there because the radiation levels should start to drop.This will take some time though. Even water that boils off will cool the rods a slight bit via evaporation. They used both heli's and firetrucks today to dowse III and IV with water.


Also this is well worth a look.

Time lapse animation of the quake and all the subsequent aftershocks with their geographic locations.

Metallitroll

Thrill wrote: »

Webcam showing the terrible weather near Yamagata - 50km Sendai

http://camera.logicbase.jp:5000/CgiStart?page=Single&Language=1

not sure if i'd even want anyone have to cling on to life for any duration let alone work in those conditions / temps .. of course i do; long as they're rescued but - its the cruelest thing compounding matters is an understatement. wretched time for this to happen

NeedaNewName

It would appear that the powers that be have cleverly played down this issue.

jamesbrond

NeedaNewName wrote: »

It would appear that the powers that be have cleverly played down this issue.

Dont worry. Us interweb soldiers will play it up.
Then we can all meet in the middle.

up for anything

NeedaNewName wrote: »

It would appear that the powers that be have cleverly played down this issue.

Ten out of ten for that observation!

NeedaNewName

jamesbrond wrote: »

Dont worry. Us interweb soldiers will play it up.
Then we can all meet in the middle.

up for anything wrote: »

Ten out of ten for that observation!

A meltdown has occurred. All that has happened is that the definition of a meltdown has been changed.

Not personally bothered as I don't have kids.

Turtwig

NeedaNewName wrote: »

A meltdown has occurred. All that has happened is that the definition of a meltdown has been changed.

Em, there never was a definition of a meltdown. Just saying.