Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

Fallschirmjager

was scanning a link, the USA sent 17 tons of boric acid to japan yesterday via airlift....

keep in mind boric acid is used to inhibit reactions.

if i was to hazard a guess, they are going to do 1 of 2 things, either soak the place in it or else they have the cooling system almost back where they can add it.

either way its yet another small piece of good news methinks....

uprising2

Canis Lupus wrote: »

The Register has an article here. HERE

I think the note he puts at the end sums it all up "As one who earns his living in the media these days, I can only apologise on behalf of my profession for the unbelievable levels of fear and misinformation purveyed this week. I have never been so ashamed to call myself a journalist."

This week?, they have been spinning sh1t since the profession began, and I don't think its something that will "blow over", here's an example from your link....

"The situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear powerplant in Japan, badly damaged during the extremely severe earthquake and tsunami there a week ago, continues to stabilise. It is becoming more probable by the day that public health consequences will be zero and radiation health effects among workers at the site will be so minor as to be hard to measure"

Nothing has stabilised, the threat has increased, that article is a pro nuclear propaganda piece, nothing more.

If you havent noticed they are STILL trying to sort this mess out, I havent seen any Japanese statements that say everything is A'OK.

Thrill

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

was scanning a link, the USA sent 17 tons of boric acid to japan yesterday via airlift....

keep in mind boric acid is used to inhibit reactions.

if i was to hazard a guess, they are going to do 1 of 2 things, either soak the place in it or else they have the cooling system almost back where they can add it.

either way its yet another small piece of good news methinks....

I remember reading that S.Korea were sending over 50 tons of it a couple of days ago.

Canis Lupus

uprising2 wrote: »

This week?, they have been spinning sh1t since the profession began, and I don't think its something that will "blow over", here's an example from your link....

"The situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear powerplant in Japan, badly damaged during the extremely severe earthquake and tsunami there a week ago, continues to stabilise. It is becoming more probable by the day that public health consequences will be zero and radiation health effects among workers at the site will be so minor as to be hard to measure"

Nothing has stabilised, the threat has increased, that article is a pro nuclear propaganda piece, nothing more.

If you havent noticed they are STILL trying to sort this mess out, I havent seen any Japanese statements that say everything is A'OK.

Well then you go run for cover, when it all blows over I'll have tea ready for you.

andrew

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

MOX plutonium fuel used in Fukushima's Unit 3 reactor two million times more deadly than enriched uranium. One of the reasons why so much effort is put into cooling this reactor.

It makes people 2 million times dead-er?

uprising2

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Well then you go run for cover, when it all blows over I'll have tea ready for you.

I don't need to run for cover, but millions of Japanese people do unfortunately, depending on which way the wind blows.

One sugar, drop of milk, stir it to the left....ohh and Barry's tea only, I could do with someone like you around, the missus is a lazy ****.;)

andrew

uprising2 wrote: »

I don't need to run for cover, but millions of Japanese people do unfortunately, depending on which way the wind blows.

You overestimate drastically how much radiation it takes to make someone ill. Of those 50 workers who've stuck around the plant, i'll be surprised if even one dies due to radiation.

Rob A. Bank

Canis Lupus wrote: »

You do realise The Register likes to use tongue in cheek headlines? The article itself just reinforces the later one. IE everyone needs to calm down.

A few more quotes from the Register article.. no doubt 'tongue in cheek' too.

"The three worst affected will cost more to put right than the other ones, having been cooled with the backup-backup seawater system and lost their roofs, but the process of sorting them out will not be a lot more onerous than a normal periodic refuelling."

"The whole sequence of events is a ringing endorsement for nuclear power safety."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/fukushiima_analysis/page3.html

Run_to_da_hills

Experts predict radioactive plume will reach Britain in two weeks. :eek:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367524/Japanese-tsunami-earthquake-Nuclear-fuel-rods-exposed.html

markphillips

This thread has been a great way to keep in top of what is going on, so thanks to those who have put in the time to post links and whatnot.

Just saw this article at work: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367524/Japanese-tsunami-earthquake-Nuclear-fuel-rods-exposed.html

I know, I know... the Daily Mail is a fer-mondering rag at the best of times. However, that picture really does show how exposed the spent fuel pool is. On a positive note, it also shows the hole is so gaping wide that it should be fairly easy for the emergency services to hose water in. It's funny really, if the hydrogen explosion in that building had not been so big, things would be a lot more difficult right now.

So, I guess the situation is this:

-They will keep water flowing into the used fuel pool and start covering the building when the radiation has fallen low enough
-the other reactors are getting electricity ASAP, so they should be okay
-the situation is basically under control and has been successfully contained (within reason)

Also, the workers that are at the plant deserve all the praise coming their way and more. Fair play. I probably would have pulled a sicky in all honesty if I was in that situation :eek:


Edit:
Just saw the link above. Sorry for the double-link!

andrew

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Experts predict radioactive plume will reach Britain in two weeks. :eek:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367524/Japanese-tsunami-earthquake-Nuclear-fuel-rods-exposed.html

You've got to be fucking kidding me. The Daily Fail does it again. Hide yo kids, Hide yo wife...

take everything

Solair wrote: »

I suspected that there might be some kind of serious damage to those cooling pools given that they're concrete and the earthquake was so severe.

It seems that various US nuclear experts have the same suspicions :eek::eek::eek::eek:





See LA Times article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-wrapup-20110318,0,2262753.story?page=1

If this is true, this would seem to be more damning.
Initially, wasn't it thought that the reactors themselves withstood the quake and were affected only indirectly by the cooling systems being knocked out by the tsunami (which has been argued as being more excusable).

Sorry if asked already but have they managed to connect the power yet?

gbee

Specks of immeasurably small radioactive particles will shortly descend on Britain and selectively attack all blue blooded males.

A solution already exists however, consuming vast quantities of larger and attending a soccer match is the perfect antidote.

Source: Me: PhD: Philosophy of the stupid. LPLA: FART.

Run_to_da_hills

take everything wrote: »

Sorry if asked already but have they managed to connect the power yet?

Connect the power to what?

Trying to connect the power to the existing set up would be like trying to jump start a burnt out car with crocodile clips.

Pumps, pipework, seals, wiring and what ever else destroyed with excess heat and explosion damage.

Fallschirmjager

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Connect the power to what?

Trying to connect the power to the existing set up would be like trying to jump start a burnt out car with crocodile clips.

Pumps, pipework, seals, wiring and what ever else destroyed with excess heat and explosion damage.

they have already done that...they have a diesel generator working on cooling pool 5 and 6 since yesterday. so lets keep our fingers crossed

Fallschirmjager

andrew wrote: »

You overestimate drastically how much radiation it takes to make someone ill. Of those 50 workers who've stuck around the plant, i'll be surprised if even one dies due to radiation.

the IAEA, the UN body did a huge report on Chernobyl and the surrounding area. i read some extracts of it a while back, as expected its as about as interesting as you would expect a UN document to be.

so far after 20 years total total deaths related to the accident is...50. yes...50...five zero... now if you are one of the 50, that is bad, but do you remember when it happened...fuk me we were all supposed to have 2 heads by now.

keep in mind that over 200,000 worked on the site, some heavily exposed.

they did discover that 9 cases of children deaths with thyroid cancer can be blamed. i recall there was a peak in curable thyroid cancer that hit the low thousands after it also and that is terrible, awful. but here is a measurement, how many lives had chernobyl saved during it operational lifetime by supplying heat, light to homes, schools, farms,roads,cities, hospitals?

interestingly they also found no affect on reproduction rates, which is historically what people expect a problem

there was one issue however that had risen, mental health due to stress. If you look at the papers, web today -- i give you some examples of the same madness to sell papers, blogs newssites. it really is a case of 'never let a crisis go to waste'. by way of another example...what happened bird flu?, the pig flu?, mad cow disease? the list is freaking endless, christ throw in the ELE event from a asteroid for good measure. there are many groups want this constant state of fear because they have an agenda...fight it, by doing your own homework.

now i am not trying to diminish the nightmare of chernobyl. its terrible, awful horrible, any death is and i know if it was my son who was one of the nine i would be looking to blame someone , anyone. but thats where you need a perspective.

nothing we will use for energy is safe, nothing, the much vaunted solar panel...go check out what they are made of and the amount of poisons they use in fabrication and its disposal, those twirly light bulbs used for power saving in your house, you do know in some countries if you were to follow the law, you are technically supposed to ring a biological hazard company to clean up the mercury in them from your carpet for safe disposal if they break (and dont ask of the deaths in china making the fuking things)? by the way when they stop working i do hope you are not throwing them in the bin? you are poisoning the groudwater. no matter what we choose, someone is going to be affected. the fear of nuclear is that it could affect the planet, hell i feel it, i dont want some **** from japan in my lungs, but have i checked my house for radon gas, also a radioactive killer...no..now which is more likely to affect me in Ireland from radiation now? this is the issue, everyone wants to matter, and if that means screaming fire, when there is none, to some in the media, that is okay. of course some are fevered pro nukes, some fevered anti nukes, but you have a brain for a reason, use it. just because greenpeace says millions will die does not make it so, just because tepco says there is no trouble is also suspect and does not make it so. its time to put down the banners and look dispassionately at the facts. is it bad, yes it is, is it the disaster the tv blasted out last saturday with a million shows of a roof blowing off, no its not that either. now we talk of the deaths and the disaster and the deaths caused by the plant and its focus. after chernobyl there was the story of spikes in abortion rates in places like sweden as a result. the fear of this lead people to abortion, think of that for a moment. it is irrelevant if you are pro or anti abortion, the point is panic drove that decision. the blame for those decisions made in error in many many cases lies in the fevered tempo of people shouting disaster, when there was none. we need perspective.

finally i get the faint feeling of some tv shows the presenters are almost salivating at the prospect of a disaster. i am sure i am not alone thinking that. that is disgusting, outrageous and immoral. a simple read of the web and a little brain activity shows how totally bogus some of these reports are. they are made up. We have proof here from several members who showed they had the measurements all wrong. it isnt even our freaking job to find that out..so how come its so difficult for the media? if you accept they are not bothered then the next logical question is why? that 'why' is the scariest question to answer.

sooner or later, maybe its this plant maybe somewhere else, there will be a disaster, it could be the 3 gorges dam, it could be anything. you need the ability to react calmly and cooly and rationally to deal with it. currently the only place in ireland i have seen that cool dispassionate reporting is here...on this thread..now honestly, with no insult meant to boards, but how ****ing sad is that?

again just my opinion...

Thrill

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

A few more quotes from the Register article.. no doubt 'tongue in cheek' too.

"The three worst affected will cost more to put right than the other ones, having been cooled with the backup-backup seawater system and lost their roofs, but the process of sorting them out will not be a lot more onerous than a normal periodic refuelling."

"The whole sequence of events is a ringing endorsement for nuclear power safety."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/fukushiima_analysis/page3.html

That article was written on the 14th when the plant was in a much better state than it is now.

Given that.......

In 2009, the nuclear energy institute put the cost of replacing one third of one core at $40 million dollars.

Then the article could well have been correct at the time of publication.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Connect the power to what?

Trying to connect the power to the existing set up would be like trying to jump start a burnt out car with crocodile clips.

Pumps, pipework, seals, wiring and what ever else destroyed with excess heat and explosion damage.

My understanding is that they are trying to get power to some emergency water pumps that are outside the reactors to allow direct cooling of the systems.

Or something like that.

Thrill

Japan's nuclear agency says it expects that work to install power cables to Number 1 and 2 reactors at Fukushima should be finished on Saturday, NHK news agency reports. Power cables to reactors 3 and 4 should be installed by Sunday. The electricity is urgently needed to run water pumps to cool the overheated reactors.

Thrill

6,911 people confirmed dead


Japanese police say they have so far confirmed 6,911 deaths in the earthquake and tsunami that hit northern Japan last week. The figure surpasses the death toll for the 1995 Great Hanshin Earthquake.

Police say 10,316 remain missing. They suspect that many other people have not been reported as missing because entire families were lost in the disaster.

The quake is Japan's worst natural disaster in the post-war period, after the 1995 Great Hanshin Earthquake, which claimed 6,434 lives.

In Miyagi Prefecture, 4,030 people have been confirmed dead, and 2,214 are missing. Iwate Prefecture has confirmed 2,223 deaths, and says 4,253 people are missing.

Fukushima Prefecture has 602 deaths, and 3,844 people remain missing.

In Aomori Prefecture, 3 people are confirmed dead. Yamagata and Hokkaido prefectures have confirmed one death each.

In the Kanto region, the death toll includes 19 in Ibaraki, 16 in Chiba and seven in Tokyo.
Friday, March 18, 2011 15:42 +0900 (JST)

Overheal

vibe666 wrote: »

it may have just been the radiation leaking from the banana in his lunchbox. :pac:

i'm not surprised he wanted to remain unnamed either.

Actually it turns out this was an increase that was picked up by a US federal project called RadNet, this is operated by the EPA.

http://www.epa.gov/narel/radnet/

Topper Harley01

gbee wrote: »

Specks of immeasurably small radioactive particles will shortly descend on Britain and selectively attack all blue blooded males.

A solution already exists however, consuming vast quantities of larger and attending a soccer match is the perfect antidote.

Source: Me: PhD: Philosophy of the stupid. LPLA: FART.

I'm surprised the Daily Mail didn't go all out and blame the 'cloud' on dole sponging immigrants/gypsies/urban foxes/Cheryl Cole.

take everything

Thrill wrote: »

Japan's nuclear agency says it expects that work to install power cables to Number 1 and 2 reactors at Fukushima should be finished on Saturday, NHK news agency reports. Power cables to reactors 3 and 4 should be installed by Sunday. The electricity is urgently needed to run water pumps to cool the overheated reactors.

Thanks

Standard Toaster

http://www.newscientist.com/embedded/japan-quake


Wow! :eek:

Jimmy Garlic

andrew wrote: »

You've got to be fucking kidding me. The Daily Fail does it again. Hide yo kids, Hide yo wife...

Lets assume everything in the daily mail is automatically a lie and refer to a bastion of infallible truth like the Irish Times or the Guardian instead. Seriously, what is to stop the radiation getting here?, it is already on the west coast of the US and the bulk of it won't be there until Monday.

up for anything

I'm not sure if this has been posted but here goes. The link contains before and after pictures of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant.

Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant

gbee

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

the bulk of it won't be there until Monday.

It's not the fact that radiation will arrive, but rather the question is if one could gather it all up and put in one place, it would probably fill and egg cup.

Saadyst

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Lets assume everything in the daily mail is automatically a lie and refer to a bastion of infallible truth like the Irish Times or the Guardian instead. Seriously, what is to stop the radiation getting here?, it is already on the west coast of the US and the bulk of it won't be there until Monday.

lol

What's to stop it is the fact that most of it dies out after a few minutes - not enough time for it to get anywhere.

Any longer lasting radiation getting out is in nowhere near enough quantities to do anything.

Helix

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Lets assume everything in the daily mail is automatically a lie and refer to a bastion of infallible truth like the Irish Times or the Guardian instead. Seriously, what is to stop the radiation getting here?, it is already on the west coast of the US and the bulk of it won't be there until Monday.

radiation i fear is becoming a loaded word

when you walk outside, you get radiation. when you fly in a plane you get radiation, when you throw your dinner into the microwave, you get radiation. you just don't get amounts that are enough to do you any damage

pretty much like this

youll get radiation from it no doubt, miniscule amounts of it

gbee

And in fact the PC, especially the monitor has a fairly high radiation count, as does the Plasma TV, but don't turn it off, just don't sit within two feet of it, all day, every day.